The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Calling Out Fairgame (Andrew Baldry) Topic ClosedGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools |
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| Administrator |
Apparently someone got away by taking away others money with the help of some crooked lawyers, and a crooked legal system! | |||
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One of Us |
Good we finally agree, Zambia apparently has some sketchy characters. Mike | |||
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| Administrator |
Well, if we look at the facts, one does qualify as a crook in Zambia. One in the US doesn't need qualifications. He stated that himself and other "successful" young people all practice bankruptcy to cheat others out of their well earned cash!  Bloody hell. We do need Jerry Springer here. Anyone knows how to contact him? He has been out of a job for years, might like to join us here just for fun!  | |||
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One of Us |
Jerry has passed on to the great daytime TV network in the sky. It is a shame. His producers would have a field day staging this kangaroo court. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| Administrator |
I nominate dogcat to be his replacement. I am sure he will do an admirable job! | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed, Seems like you are returning to elementary school. Let me see… Bullying? Yes, you get a check mark, Name Calling ? Yes, you get a check mark. Plays well with other? Yes, you get a check mark. Deflect, twist and run away from the real issues. You get that check mark as well. Your defense of Baldry is fine. Fine, you can do that. However, now you turn to insulting the bulk of the members here with your abject hatred of lawyers, America, Americans and the American system of government, American leadership, Israel, Israelis…who is not on your list? Get back to the issue… Ibi and Baldry were the essence of a hunt sold that could not be conducted because Ibi did not have the concession. Then, he could not or would not refund the money. Plain and simple. What then shall be done? Name call? Bully? Try directing your efforts to a resolution……. | |||
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| Administrator |
I don’t like politicians I don’t like lawyers I don’t like bankers. I don’t like crooks who take others peoples money. Two perfect examples here. One Zambian. One American! And hey, I am not called the black sheep of family for nothing! Now to serious business. Would you be interested in starting a Jerry Springer show? Corey can play the aggrieved victim. Ibi can start saying “I will pay you back as soon as you pay back your creditors!” I am sure with your expertise of having a go at Andrew you will be able to keep them apart! | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed, You are on a roll… downhill. You have gone from calling CME a victim to calling him a crook. And from calling the real culprits out to defending one as a victim and the other as ??? You then turn to me, whom you have never met, and compare me to Jerry Springer. I have heard of Springer but have not seen his TV show. I do not know Baldry. I do not know Ibi. I don’t know you. I do know that when I see what has played out in this mess, that I prefer not to. At the end of it, we all want CME to get his money back and this thread to stop. We all want to see African hunting to be done honestly. And yet you want to deflect from the issue to CME and his long past business issue and now to me to be a TV host. You act the same way in Political Forum - bash, bash, bash, hate, hate ,hate.. how well has the worked for you or for getting CME his money and Baldry his reputation back??? I would suggest you rise above the fray and stay on the facts. | |||
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| One of Us |
. . . with friends like Saeed, Baldry must be wondering who needs enemies. We have gone from Baldry was a poor victim too, to now the client is the culprit. Ridiculous. Good news is that I am sure that all but the most die hard Baldry toadies understand the situation. Mike | |||
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| Administrator |
Well. Look at it as it is. Someone started this thread accusing Andrew of taking g the clients money. He never did. Ibi did. Then it progressed to the stage where the client was shown that he had declared bankruptcy, which, in his own words, he said it is a NORMAL thing to do. Him and his SUCCESSFUL friends do that as part of normal business! I do remember Jerry Springer shows, and as was mentioned here, this has turned into a Jerry Springer show! Now I see the cheerleaders are getting fidgety. So please explain to me how a Zambian taking 75,000 dollars from an American is worse than an American taking over 500,000 dollars from other Americans?? A simple explanation would do. | |||
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| One of Us |
As I said above, if the distinction between the legitimate use of an allowed legal process and fraud is beyond your grasp not sure I can help you. Mike | |||
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| Administrator |
Glad to hear it! Last thing I ever want is help in life from a lawyer! | |||
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| One of Us |
Back to bullying.... Oh well... Bankruptcy laws in the USA did away with debtors prison. In Europe and other places, people realized that debtors prisons do not solve the problem, only make it worse. In the USA, a bankruptcy has serious consequences to the person declaring such. You become severly limited in accessing credit again. You untimately face creditors with a court declared plan to pay back what you can. It takes great effort to rebuild and recover. It appears CME has done that. You mentioned you do not like bankers either. Hard to understand other than you never borrowed money or needed to transfer cash or earn interest or buy anything with something other than cash. I assume you carry a suitcase full of cash to Tanz or the Seychelles or Norway on your vacations? If you use credit cards, you are using banks. I am not a fan of airlines but use them because they provide a service I cannot provide for myself. Banks do that. Lawyers do that. I do agree with you on politicians, however, many politicians are honest and work within in the bounds of law. I do not know if there are politicians in Dubai or just royal family that runs the show. Anyway, we can vote them out if we don't like them. You cannot vote out the royal family. You mentioned you don't like crooks who take other people's money - at last, we are on common ground. No one does except other theives. So we agree that Ibi is a crook of some sort. We disagree on Baldry's role in this. You say he had no role. I say he acted as the agent - in essence driving the getaway car in this theft. Further, we agree, I think, that Baldry tried somewhat to work out restitution to the offended parties. CME was not one of the refundees. Why? Why not a partial refund? Why run out of money when it came to CME? I do not know. Am not sure what we are solving here other than you watch Jerry Springer reruns since he has been dead since April 2023 and off the air in the USA since 2018. I learned this on Wikipedia. I am behind in my pop culture studies apparantly. | |||
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| Administrator |
Money is money. It normally belongs to someone. Normal people exchange it for services and goods. Crooks take it from other with the promise of providing future services and then not deliver. Some crooks declare bankruptcy. Aided and abetted by crooked lawyers in a crooked legal system. So where is the difference between someone taking 75,000 dollars off and running away with. And someone taking 500,000 dollars and running away with it? Didn’t in both the above cases SOMEONE LOST those amounts?? Isn’t it the reason some of you blubbering non stop that Andrew should pay back 75,000, you started this thread?? Who calls for the return of the 500,000 dollars to its rightful owners!?? Oh I know. Some lawyer will tell the 500,000 dollars were TAKEN LEGALLY! While that sod in Zambia is a bloody crook, has taken the 75,000 ILLEGALLY! I don’t know. May be I should get the job of old Jerry Springer! The scenario does not change though.  | |||
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| One of Us |
Sometimes Countries like say in the Middle East make and made money off Slavery up until very very recently. Some would say countries like the UAE and others still profit from Slavery in a modern form of Indentured Servitude. https://cdn.walkfree.org/conte...ountry-study-uae.pdf So, for example, if one’s family generationally profited from Slavery and amassed great wealth…. Some might take a dim view of the Morality of such things. We on this site never think much of those things but it is weird when thinking about lectures on morality and such | |||
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| Administrator |
Morality lecture coming from a society that has no morals! I LOVE it | |||
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| One of Us |
did your country started an internal civil war on slavery not that long ago ... it is always hard to give lessons to the rest of the world ... | |||
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| Administrator |
Please go easy on our American brothers. They never look in the mirrors before they start accusing others how ugly they look! Good thing too! They will go completely berserk and have endless nightmares | |||
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| One of Us |
cant promise it but i will try at your request ... | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed and now medved, Devolving to deciding about the morality of countries? Or did slavery now become the issue at hand??? Hard to discern your motives or you both are just bored. Back to the thread please. Baldry brokered a hunt. Baldry directed where the money should go. The money went there. Ibi, the recipient of the money, does not own the concession. Lots of discussion starts. A list of hunters get their deposits returned. For some reason, CME's name was not on the list. This all comes to the attention of AR. The storm of discussion starts. Many posts by Baldry declaring - "I did not get the money or any money." "I am a victim too!" "I never knew that Ibi was not honest!" ect ect ect. Ibi actually sends $5000 to CME with the promise of more. Baldry claims that he is working behind the scenes to get the money for CME, alas, nothing happens. Lots of name calling. CME starts action offline to get resolution. The members here in the meantime take sides. Additional personal information comes to light about Baldry, CME and others. None of which is relevent to this mess. More name calling and nation bashing. USA gets a new/old President that some here don't like. More nation bashing. CME still does not have his money returned. Now, some are trying to sell Baldry as a victim. Some are trying to sell CME as the bad guy. Some are trying to stir up a slavery issue (???) Let's get back to the issue and leave the nation bashing to the political forum where that childish nonesense belongs. | |||
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| One of Us |
Not really dummy..not the comeback you were thinking it was The West freed the slaves for the first time in History. Didn’t start slavery nor kept it… Hopefully Canada will soon vote yourselves free again. | |||
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| Administrator |
When you glorify a career criminal, and create BLM, DEI and all the other stupid mixture of senseless letters, do you really expect common sense?? We saw that in the last election ! Almost half of you voted for Kamala! A more stupid Bimbo has never been put forward to lead a country! She had the brains of a dead armadillo on a Texas highway! And those voting for her had the brains of a dinosaur’s egg! | |||
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| One of Us |
Again, Saeed, you are too emotionally compromised on the issue of USA politics. What you said, does not matter at all on the issue of Ibi-Baldry- CME Take this noise to the political forum. You will find like minded folks there to argue with. This is a classic deflect and throw as much nonsense at the wall as possible to get away from this serious issue... You should know that. If you were a fish, you would be too easy to catch - rising to any bait thrown.... Stay on task here please. | |||
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The issue of Ibi and CME is 100% similar! One Zambian crook took 75,000 dollar from CME! CME too 542,000 from others. The difference is at least we haven’t heard Ibi expressing pride in what he has done! CME did. In his very own words, he said him and other “successful” individuals do this as a routine way of getting better at business! So what are complaining about?? Don’t believe me? Check his own post! Realistically, I would deal with someone like Ibi. Because he lost money because of the government actions! I wouldn’t touch CME with the proverbial barge pole! He seems to think declaring bankruptcy is just a normal business transaction! May be according to you different rules apply to people from Zambia and America?? | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed, Finally, back to the issue. 1st- I do not see them (Ibi and CME) as the same. Business bankruptcy in the USA is not "normal" in that it happens often. It happens for a variety of reasons. In CME's case and most bankruptcies, the person declaring bankruptcy did not "take" the money. It is often credit offered to the business with the expectation of making money in that business but something occurs where the business/individual cannot repay the loans under the loan agreements. At that point, after talking to creditors, the business/individual seeks the court to set up dispersion of whatever assets remain. When you read "$524,000 in debts" and "bankruptcy", that does not necessarily mean the $524000 was lost/disappeared or whatever. It means that the court will sort out who gets paid whatever assets are left in a business. That type of bankruptcy is not criminal and not even litigated in civil court. If the bankrupt entity was hiding assets or willfully misused assets, that goes to both criminal and civil court where the outcome is not good for the perpetrator. There are several lawyers here that can correct me if I am wrong. In summary, bankruptcy is not theft unless there is proof or evidence - then the hammer truly comes down. To classify CME in the same breath as Ibi is a mischaracterization of the situation. Ibi, with Baldry's help, sold hunts in a concession that he did not own. Then, did not refund the money. I understand that in the contract, there may or may not be "refund" language and the usual protections should a deal go badly. I do not know this. In my Africa experience, I have seen clauses in agreements that allow for this and I have seen agreements with no mention. Hence, I usually use an agent that offers that protection to me as a buyer. How enforceable such a clause is, is up for debate. If the contract is in the USA with a USA agent or outfit, it is very enforceable. I did not read into CME post that he was "proud" of having to declare bankruptcy. I would doubt anyone would be proud of that. What he may be proud of is that he has recovered from it and has moved on. You would deal with Ibi? I would be suprised given your penchant to doing handshake deals with the Vincents and others as well as never signing a contract. I would urge caution as would others here. I have not seen any posts by Baldry where he says that he will broker hunts for Ibi again. I have seen any support for Baldry from the Zambian Professonal Hunters Associataion. Several here have hunted with him and liked the hunt. I have had a few PM's that were less than glowing. I do not know Ibi or Baldry other than on AR. Same as how I know you. From the appearances, I would not do any business with Ibi and I have stated that I would not hunt Zambia again except with the DuPloy's or Thor. I suspect CME would not "touch" you either given your judgements on him and not knowing all the facts of this mess. Bankruptcy is not normal but a protection in our legal system. It allows for a structured settlement of how debts are handled. In our system, there is no vengence or retribution allowed - just a settlement that no one likes. I am not aware of how this issue is settled under Sharia Law. Under Biblical/Mosaic Law, there is restitution plus a penalty and can be some prison involved. Do different rules apply in Zambia vs America? Yes. Our system is different than Zambian law just like our culture is different. Zambian law is somewhat based on the British system that was in place until 1964 - they have had 60 years to evolve their system. As you know, Zambia was formerly Rhodesia and then Northern Rhodesia. USA law is complex, convoluted and almost incomprehensible as we have 50 states that apply laws of the states and then we have federal law. On top of that, we have Louisiana which models their legal system off French law. Now you see why we have a lot of lawyers. Frankly, I am glad we do and have had reasonably good experiences with them. Hopefully, this gives you and others a little more insight. | |||
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| Administrator |
You can believe whatever you wish! Taking 75,000 dollars from someone is a crime. Just as taking 542,000 dollars from some is a crime! What is the bloody difference?? Oh, just because a lawyer made some money out of it, it does not qualify as a crime?? Bloody hell! If you believe that you are fit for the asylum! End of the day THE MONEY BELONGS TO SOMEONE! And that same money is benefitting others! WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT! Basically it is called THEFT! In our society at least! No idea if it is normal in yours! | |||
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| One of Us |
Ok, well logic and law do not seem to prevail here. You finally stated what everyone seems to know - "No idea if it is normal in yours!" One of my points is that you really have no deep rooted concept of US and most western societies. It is a deep chasm between Arab/Sharia/Islam and Western (European, North American/Austrailian)/Quasi Christian law/all types of beliefs due to the freedoms afforded our culture. In other words, I can no more understand how your society works, even though I worked in the Middle East several years, than you can understand ours. Yes, we are both educated. Yes, we have both travelled. Yes, we are somewhat intuitive to the social rules of societies - but it is near impossible for me to graft into your society and you certainly cannot graft into ours. I am not throwing a stone at you or your society. I am stating there are differences that cannot be resolved much like the Israel vs Arabs/Palestinians ect ect. It will never be solved. The basis of world view and teachings from 4000 years ago (time of Abraham) until now prevent agreement on the fundamentals of life, life construct and how justice is viewed. As to crime - borrowing money and not being able to pay it back is not a crime. Stealing is a crime because that is taking money with no intent to pay it back. Borrowers charge interest that is above a bank index - Mastercard charges 25% or more interest. Why is that? Risk of not being paid back. For Mastercard, the risk is higher than for other types of credit sellers. Interest is charged to 1) make money for the lender, 2) higher interest rates spread over many loans offsets losses with a business cannot pay the principle back to the lender. In other words, commercial lenders charge interest based on risk. Bankruptcy of a borrower is a risk to lenders. It is not a crime. That discussion highlights the differences in cultures and how lending/borrowing is managed. For the West, business risks are factored into loans and interest rates. I do not know about Islamic or Arab cultures/banking practices. Ibi is/was a business of some sort. He took deposits. Those deposits are often used for "expenses" of the ongoing business. In this case, the governement or whoever or whatever did not authorize his concessions. So, how does he have business expense on a concession he did not own? Hence, he kept CME's money while re-paying others. Now, rumor or fact says he has declared bankruptcy in Zambia. I have no idea what that entails or means other than there is hopefully a legal process whereby CME can get some of his money back. My entire point on Baldry is that he acted as agent for Ibi in selling this non-hunt. Is he obligated to pay the full amount? I do not know. He was part of the process knowingly or unknowingly - therefore has some level of obligation. A court could decide that if there is applicable law in Zambia. In the USA, he would likely be culpable. Ibi would try to get to bankruptcy court to avoid criminal liabilities. I don't know what the outcome would be. If the timeline shows Ibi knew or should have known he did not own the concession, then that would possibly end up in criminal court. If he was proven a victim of a government decision, then likely this ends up in bankruptcy court. However, I have no idea how the Zambian legal system works. Here is an off the wall idea - since you said you would do business with Ibi, then book a hunt or buy something, send him at least $75,000 and see what he does with it.... If he turns it to CME, great. If not, then we would all know how smart it is dealing with Ibi, assuming you get whatever you buy or book.... For me, I would not do that. | |||
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| Administrator |
If I was going to hunt in Zambia I would do what many on this forum did before. Hunt with Andrew. Never heard a single negative from those who hunted with him. Many are repeat clients. Ibi refused to pay CME back probably because all you lot started threatening him, and his family, of retribution! CME, on the other hand, thinks it is NORMAL to go bankrupt and not pay others their money! One thing you have to remember, there a whole world out there. They have their rules of doing business. You, as Americans, have absolutely no control over it. Get on a bloody plane and go to Zambia! Deal with Ibi there. And PLEASE stop trying to remind us of what SHOULD happen according to your convoluted laws! Laws that allow “successful” people to cheat others out of their rightful money. LEGALLY! This should be a great comedy/crime story! | |||
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| One of Us |
. . . Saeed  Mike | |||
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| Administrator |
Simple question. If someone takes money from others and doesn’t pay it back. Is it a crime or not? Simple answer. No silly lawyers bullshit! | |||
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| One of Us |
depending on which part of the world you are sitting and whom you are dealing with. you steal if you do that to an american but it is not a steal if an american do it go figure ... | |||
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| One of Us |
wikipedia is not always good but that war was about slavery lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War now on the canada side we are in your mind and the trupm ones becoming the 51th state ... good luck with that ... and yes we need to get rid of the british monarchy and trudeau but what will happen i do not now ... | |||
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| One of Us |
you are almost right dogcat except for the part where your own decided Andrew is the agent without even taking a dime lol ... imagine if for any reasons you gave references to a friend and it is not happening the way they thought or you told them without a doubt you will be now an agent but i do agree im bored on one thing you thinking Andrew is the devil equally with Andrew while you did not think too about who took the money ... and Andrew did not reveived the fund to redirect them either ... | |||
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| One of Us |
With all due respect, if you seriously believe that the scenario you described is anything akin to someone affirmatively selling and marketing a hunt, negotiating all the terms and pricing with the client, securing the dates with the operator, putting the client in touch with the operator to make payment and then leaving the client twisting in the wind when the deal goes south . . . you are the epitome of dense. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
Simple but laughable. 1. Taking money from someone by force or subtrefuge is stealing and is a crime. CME did not loan money to Ibi. He made a downpayment for a hunt with all the services included. Ibi did not deliver the hunt and only $5000 of $80,000 owed in return. This is stealing by subtrefuge (or better known as a scam or a bait and switch) in most places. 2. Receiving a loan and not being able to pay it back is not stealing and therefore not a crime. The borrower is willing but has no means to repay the loan. Hence, bankruptcy rules/court. CME was not loaning money. Seems a simple concept... Every religion has rules/standards on this... Governments as well.... | |||
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| One of Us |
there is no need using the word respect with you came with after all lol ... ask around and just the members here that hunted with Andrew and im waiting to hear the bad outcome. now with what you wrote and for the future i will not anymore offer help for the people coming over here in the yukon and when or where there is a problem .. as i do not want to be the one hanged here even if i do not received money nor asked for ... term and pricing in the case of Andrew were dealt with Ibi but i do understand you have a grief against Andrew and nothing will stop it ... but im not a lawyer and im living in the 51st state ... | |||
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| One of Us |
Medved, Yukon is a great place. A recommendation is far different than marketing, selling, directing where money is sent and how much, settling dates and so forth. Baldry uses various webisites to market his services, which include arranging hunts for people. He gets paid to do that in a fee or a daily rate or whatever he has negotiated with the concession owner. He had made his deal with Ibi before CME sent any money. If not, how could he have set his daily rate and expenses?? He acted as an agent by doing those things. If I called you for a hunt rec in Yukon for Stone Sheep. You would say - "look at Joe Schmuck Adventures, I hear good things about him". I then call Joe and you are out of the deal. It is like recommending a restautrant. You are OUT of the deal and not participating. Baldry set this entire mess in motion when he advertised here and other places. He connected with CME and set up the terms, deposit routing, dates and quotas. That is what agents do. Hence, he acted as an agent and is culpable here. As to recommendations by others about Baldry, fine, those are good outcomes for those hunters. I am glad he provided a good hunt for them. This one was not because a PH acting as an agent for a supposed concession owner sold a hunt that was non-existant and the money was not refunded. We are just on opposite sides of the issue here, yet I have been called Jerry Springer and suggested to be in an asylum. I hope I don't disagree with someone that is really serious... | |||
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[QUOTED by DOGCAT] He had made his deal with Ibi before CME sent any money. If not, how could he have set his daily rate and expenses? [/QUOTE] Andrew is a freelance PH when conducting hunts on other concessions and his fee is NOT a daily rate because when discussing daily rates, these are the charges levied by the concession owner known as "outfitting charges" which among others, would also include the fee per diem which is set by the outfitter (concession owner) and which varies according the the nature of the hunt, e.g. a lower fee for a plains-game hunt and higher one for a DG hunt. The dates and availability of game are determined by the outfitter and not the PH other than the PH "parroting" the information relayed to him by the outfitter and in which case any info given to the client is transmitted by the messenger, i.e. Andrew the PH. If Andrew was indeed the agent he would have concluded the deal from A-Z without bringing the outfitter into the equation, taken his cut and paid the outfitter the agreed balance. | |||
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| One of Us |
Andrew is a freelance PH when conducting hunts on other concessions and his fee is NOT a daily rate because when discussing daily rates, these are the charges levied by the concession owner known as "outfitting charges" which among others, would also include the fee per diem which is set by the outfitter (concession owner) and which varies according the the nature of the hunt, e.g. a lower fee for a plains-game hunt and higher one for a DG hunt. The dates and availability of game are determined by the outfitter and not the PH other than the PH "parroting" the information relayed to him by the outfitter and in which case any info given to the client is transmitted by the messenger, i.e. Andrew the PH. If Andrew was indeed the agent he would have concluded the deal from A-Z without bringing the outfitter into the equation, taken his cut and paid the outfitter the agreed balance.[/QUOTE] thank you Fulvio you summed up with better words than i. | |||
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| One of Us |
. . . Baldry has already admitted that he acts as an agent . . .
Mike | |||
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