Fine by me, like I say I do the same job for saints or assholes! At the end of the hunt and the clients has said their good byes and hit the trail, I set back with a beer and think about the hunt, and tip or no, as long as I know and feel that I did the kind of job I would want done for me if I was the client I am happy as hell and feel on top of the world.

With the type hunts I do, a tip is deeply appreciated, but if at the end of the hunt and goodbyes are said, if the client stays in touch with me, the fact that I made a friend is more important.

To Steve & Lhook

How ever many times you hunt in Africa, it does not give you greater rights to an opinion or perspective than anyone else on AR. Nor does it make you smarter or a better person!

Yes I am a new-be - planning my first safari. Is the topic not relevant to me? If anything it is more relevant to new hunters than the seasoned ones!

For those with poor manners, you could hunt Africa 100 times and be rude to several hundred people! You could be biggest tipper in the world and yet be a total PIA. Few people will want to share a camp fire with you.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
To Steve & Lhook

How ever many times you hunt in Africa, it does not give you greater rights to an opinion or perspective than anyone else on AR. Nor does it make you smarter or a better person!

Yes I am a new-be - planning my first safari. Is the topic not relevant to me? If anything it is more relevant to new hunters than the seasoned ones!

For those with poor manners, you could hunt Africa 100 times and be rude to several hundred people! You could be biggest tipper in the world and yet be a total PIA. Few people will want to share a camp fire with you.

Guy, this topic might be extremely relevant to you, extremely important even, but with a complete lack of experience you simply cannot have any perspective on tipping in Africa.

You can have your opinion about tipping, enthusiasm or qualm as the case may be, but you cannot have perspective. To have perspective you have to have been there, at least once.

JPK

JPK, those fingertips sore yet?

quote:

How ever many times you hunt in Africa, it does not give you greater rights to an opinion or perspective than anyone else on AR. Nor does it make you smarter or a better person!

Of course you are dead wrong as regards opinions or perspectives on African hunting. You've never been there and your opinions count right in there with a virgin telling us how great menage a trois' are.

Finally, and it may not happen, but if your PH works his ass off for you, gets you some great trophies, and at the end, you say, "Geesh, guy, I didn't mean to shoot so much, so I'm out of money for tips. Much obliged until you're better paid....." Then there is a distinct possibility that your trophies may either not get to you or not get to you in good condition or not be the ones you shot. It happens.

You can agree with tipping or disagree with tipping, but that is the current system in most of Africa. If you don't go with the flow, you might not get what you expect.

Naki, you need to get rid of some of the PF angst and get rid of the PC attitude.

The fact that you can hunt Africa is vastly unfair to 99% of the hunters in the world the way you are stating things.

While I can appreciate the fact that everyone can have an opinion, and in politics, everyone's is equal (at least in the western democracies) you also have to realize that when you are discussing an activity in order to have a relevant opinion, you need experience. You self admit that you have not been there, and you don't know, and that at least at first, you were hoping to gain some knowledge...unfortunately, when the information was not to your liking, you attacked the guys giving it, saying your opinion was just as valid as theirs... think about that for a minute.

All the political soapboxing in the world will not change that in Africa now, the tip is expected (but not mandatory) and part of how some of the staff make it through the year.

Your opinion of whether or not a tip is a good idea is a valid one. Its based on your life experience. Your ideas of whether or not it is customary and appropriate if you are satisfied with the hunt is not.

One time I went in to a reasonably nice restaurant here way back in my college days. I had enough to pay for the meal, but no tip. Boy was I made to look like a chump for that stunt, the GF was NOT impressed. I see this as similar. If you don't save enough to pay the usual expected costs (whether or not you end up actually paying it is different if the experience was not worth the tipping...) you should either wait until you can or set your sights a little bit lower. Going in expecting to shortchange people is just plain mean.

If you are a person from a non tipping culture AND YOU DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS EXPECTED, you will likely get a pass from the rank and file. It still doesn't make you less a cad if you knowingly use an excuse like I'm from New Zealand, we don't tip, so I am not gonna tip even though I know it is expected. You will know what you did, not the kangaroo court here.

Certainly, I would expect the business owner (like Buzz in this case) to accept all comers that pay his fee, and demand good service from his employees, but it undoubtedly rankles the guy who expected a tip to get his kid a bike or meat for the pot instead of mealie meal off season when he sees his buddies getting a tip for just as much work.

I don't do a lot of the stuff I would like to do because I can't afford to do it. I do hunt internationally some, but I also expect to pay what the usual rate is for good work, and that includes tips.

I would like to see a universal guide to "how much is good" and put in my $0.02 to Saeed about it. So far it looks like I am over generous, but I would not discount anyone who has been there's comments no matter how different their experience has been than mine- but I do discount the armchair types telling me how much (or little) I should be tipping.

The fact that Crazy does guide and states what he feels I can buy in to. I would like to believe that all guides think that way, but I know better. Hats off to him for being better than most about it.

I feel better. I don't think I'll ever be accused of under-tipping. I wouldn't change a thing and won't change things in the future.

crbutler - your comments are appreciated - a class post. Your intentions are genuine. Thank you sir. I have just a few points for your serious consideration.

You got a few things wrong. I did not attack the guys who tipped. Yes I did have uncomplimentary comments about guides in Australia & NZ expecting tips or even accepting them. That is just not justifiable IMHO.

If you read my earlier posts on the subject you will see that I did not say I will not tip or that I am against it. I understand it and I am not used to it in NZ. On the other hand it is common in India but a very low % is paid as tips. If you read carefully you will see that I intend to treat everyone with respect. If you read further in my various other forums you will see that I am absolutely open and honest while I prepare & plan.

You will also see that the information is confusing - Saeed's last list is enough to illustrate my point. That post still does not tell me what is "normal". My mind was made up over a month ago and I posted my intentions on AR. I need not repeat them.

My comment to an earlier post was nothing to do with tipping but EVERYTHING to do with his arrogant and offensive comments to others who do not think like him.

In a restaurant the guy next to me might tip big while I tip much less. But he has no right to tell me that I should not eat there OR fart in my face and pretend like he had a right to do that just because he tipped more!

A hunting camp fire has experienced hunters & new-bes. Also Big & small tippers. But we all should have good manners and show respect to each other. Simple.

Page 7!! Boy I'm glad to live in Aus and get paid sufficiently so as not to be concerned about receiving a tip.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


I will related a story of what happened to us in the northern part of Sweden, while we were hiking up in the mountains there last summer.
It is quite an eye opener, as those who travel a lot will see.

We booked 3 rooms at a ski resort that is being used by hikers in the summer.
At the booking, they took my name and phone number. That is it. They never asked for a credit card to confirm the booking.

When we arrived, I got my credit card and handed it to the man at the reception. He gave it back to me, without using it, saying "I will take that when you leave"
Breakfast was part of the deal, while other meals have to be paid for. We had lunch out, but dinner was always in the hotel.

They had fixed meal choices, about 3 or 4 to choose from.

We had kids, who asked for something else, and they gladly prepared those meals for them.
We just signed for everything, to be paid at the end of our stay.

When we came to leave, we wanted to leave a tip for the staff who have been serving us. The manager was trying his best to persuade us not to leave anything, as everything was included in the bill!

But, as the staff were extremely helpful, we did leave a tip, and the manager was all over himself with gratitude.

===========================


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would be normal in this part of the world.

If you would ask a Swedish booking agent what would be fair to tip after a 10 day DG hunt in Africa you would get a VERY different answer compared to what we are seeing in this thread here what americans tip.

Anton,

Only because I'm curious what would a Swedish agent recommend as a tip say on a 10 day buffalo hunt? I'd be really interested in your answer.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Anton,

Only because I'm curious what would a Swedish agent recommend as a tip say on a 10 day buffalo hunt? I'd be really interested in your answer.

Mark

Mark, I can answere the question for one Swedish agent. He recomended a friend to tip the PH US$100 for a 10 day buffalo hunt in Tanzania last year, nothing for the rest of the staff. I guess you can imagine the shock the two Swedish hunters got when the PH turned over the list of expected tipps the last night.

/ P-A

quote:

Originally posted by P-A Åhlén:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Anton,

Only because I'm curious what would a Swedish agent recommend as a tip say on a 10 day buffalo hunt? I'd be really interested in your answer.

Mark

Mark, I can answere the question for one Swedish agent. He recomended a friend to tip the PH US$100 for a 10 day buffalo hunt in Tanzania last year, nothing for the rest of the staff. I guess you can imagine the shock the two Swedish hunters got when the PH turned over the list of expected tipps the last night.

/ P-A

Per Arne,

no offense ment, but that Swedish agent cannot have had sent many hunters for hunting in US/Canada, Africa nor Russia/Asia lately or the last 20 years !

Come on - 100 dollars for a 10 day DG hunt is almost offending the PH. The Swedish agents advice was very bad and must have been based on no knowledge how the hunting industry works. And for sure the hunters had not done their homework !

I am not saying that tips of several thousands of dollars is the correct thing Per Arne - I totally agree on that. I give tip when the hunting days are over and papers are done, but as many I struggle with this issue of tipping. One thing I do not understand is why a high price hunt should result in a big tip in compariosn of a low price hunt. I understand more tipping based on days in the Field, but I as I told previously in this thread I have heard some very "bad" stories and I find my self on the low average level I guess ! That means 6-10% of the cost ex trophy fees !

1. The majority of posters here suggest that tips are discretionary, but many argue ( rightfully so) that that is NOT reality...

2. Others suggest that if a bloke cannot afford a tip commensurate with his hunt...he should stay home !? To this I must say : I believe any honest PH would respect a hunter who busted his arse to obtain the $$ he needed for a lifetime dream and hunt who COULD NOT AFFORD the extra ($1 grand or more) for a tip...

Many of us are well-off, let's neither forget nor condemn those who are not.

quote:

Originally posted by joester:
The majority of posters here suggest that tips are discretionary, but many argue (rightfully so) that that is NOT reality...

Speaking of . . .

A PH must bust his ass for each and every client and is that not his job? That is what you pay for. His gratuity (if he receives one) is pure gravy.

Never have I ever come a scenario where a PH or Operator interferes with a client's trophies.

Tipping staff is simply part of the safari culture and relates to good service. The amount is ultimately at the clients discretion and can be simply discussed with the PH around the campfire.

How can one possibly recommend a tip prior to a safari?

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by P-A Åhlén:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Anton,

Only because I'm curious what would a Swedish agent recommend as a tip say on a 10 day buffalo hunt? I'd be really interested in your answer.

Mark

Mark, I can answere the question for one Swedish agent. He recomended a friend to tip the PH US$100 for a 10 day buffalo hunt in Tanzania last year, nothing for the rest of the staff. I guess you can imagine the shock the two Swedish hunters got when the PH turned over the list of expected tipps the last night.

/ P-A

Per Arne,

no offense ment, but that Swedish agent cannot have had sent many hunters for hunting in US/Canada, Africa nor Russia/Asia lately or the last 20 years !

Come on - 100 dollars for a 10 day DG hunt is almost offending the PH. The Swedish agents advice was very bad and must have been based on no knowledge how the hunting industry works. And for sure the hunters had not done their homework !

I am not saying that tips of several thousands of dollars is the correct thing Per Arne - I totally agree on that. I give tip when the hunting days are over and papers are done, but as many I struggle with this issue of tipping. One thing I do not understand is why a high price hunt should result in a big tip in compariosn of a low price hunt. I understand more tipping based on days in the Field, but I as I told previously in this thread I have heard some very "bad" stories and I find my self on the low average level I guess ! That means 6-10% of the cost ex trophy fees !

Morten, I agree with you on this. I have only been on one safari and I am very glad that CMS put the expected tip list on their webbpage so that I got some idea on the gravity of the situation. My friends hunt in Tanzania was something special. The Swedish agent did a very bad jobb informationwise for him and his friend, they managed to save the situation only by luck. Off course you can blame them for not doing their homework on tips before they travelled to Tanz, but they did trust the agent.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Page 7!! Boy I'm glad to live in Aus and get paid sufficiently so as not to be concerned about receiving a tip.

Well, I am glad I live where I do, and make enough to be able to choose to tip outstanding efforts.


Tim

Mark less than half of the prices we are talking about here. Im trying to find a mail with a "Tip sheet" a la Sweden lol..

They book for companies like ZH and big outfitters in Tanz.

I have travelled all over the world and never had a problem with tipping, like in US with food,cabs and hair dressers I actually like it.

But the dollars that are being handed out in the safari industry on the last day of the trip are way out of my leauge.

JMHO a 10K tip from a Scandinavian will never happen. Ever.

Im also in the service business and have never accepted a tip even though I have been offered countless times. Hard to explain for you guys that invented it but it just feels wrong.

I see a pretty strong contingent of "non" or discretionary tippers here. Let me ask you this; Would it be appropriate, for me now, that it seems even some of the PH's are OK with it, not tip?

I figure I could upscale some hunts quite nicely. For one, I could have shot the GFH that I so dearly wanted in CAR but couldn't afford (but had the cash in my pocket). I could upgrade from a 16 day license to a 21 day license in TZ, Or even fly business instead of coach.

I bet if you were to ask the PH's, if it's OK for some to not tip, perhaps, all should do likewise, they would stutter a bit and backtrack.

This is obviously a poison subject.

Why is it OK for Noki or others to pay less for the same hunt as I do?

Just some random thoughts of the un-intended consequences. For the record, I obviously don't feel this way. But what if this discussion had changed my mind?

Steve

And after I have tipped my PH last time we went to a big nationalpark and he picked up the bill for 3days there, so my tip couldn't have been that bad

I have asked before a few Phs here, what can you see in differences from europeans to americans in tips ? But no answers yet

I know for a fact that a few Swedes went for a full bag hunt in Tanz and tipped all with 5US "moraknivar" that I would not do

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I see a pretty strong contingent of "non" or discretionary tippers here. Let me ask you this; Would it be appropriate, for me now, that it seems even some of the PH's are OK with it, not tip?

I figure I could upscale some hunts quite nicely. For one, I could have shot the GFH that I so dearly wanted in CAR but couldn't afford (but had the cash in my pocket). I could upgrade from a 16 day license to a 21 day license in TZ, Or even fly business instead of coach.

I bet if you were to ask the PH's, if it's OK for some to not tip, perhaps, all should do likewise, they would stutter a bit and backtrack.

This is obviously a poison subject.

Why is it OK for Noki or others to pay less for the same hunt as I do?

Just some random thoughts of the un-intended consequences. For the record, I obviously don't feel this way. But what if this discussion had changed my mind?

Steve

Steve cause the American hunters are subsiding Europeans who don't tip.

Funny side story - I was sitting at Winghouse getting a beer and reading AR on tipping when the cute bartender asked what I was reading on my ipad. I said the great raging debate on tipping.

Then I explained the context of tipping and she said it makes sense cause the PH is incentivized to make sure you are not killed by anything dangerous till he gets his tip. I thought it was pretty funny.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I see a pretty strong contingent of "non" or discretionary tippers here. Let me ask you this; Would it be appropriate, for me now, that it seems even some of the PH's are OK with it, not tip?

I figure I could upscale some hunts quite nicely. For one, I could have shot the GFH that I so dearly wanted in CAR but couldn't afford (but had the cash in my pocket). I could upgrade from a 16 day license to a 21 day license in TZ, Or even fly business instead of coach.

I bet if you were to ask the PH's, if it's OK for some to not tip, perhaps, all should do likewise, they would stutter a bit and backtrack.

This is obviously a poison subject.

Why is it OK for Noki or others to pay less for the same hunt as I do?

Just some random thoughts of the un-intended consequences. For the record, I obviously don't feel this way. But what if this discussion had changed my mind?

Steve

Steve cause the American hunters are subsiding Europeans who don't tip.

Funny side story - I was sitting at Winghouse getting a beer and reading AR on tipping when the cute bartender asked what I was reading on my ipad. I said the great raging debate on tipping.

Then I explained the context of tipping and she said it makes sense cause the PH is incentivized to make sure you are not killed by anything dangerous till he gets his tip. I thought it was pretty funny.

Mike

That's funny. You should have hidden your tip for Burkina safari in the wash full of enraged Jumbo's.

Mike were you happy with your west african safari and ph´s/trackers etc ? Did you tip after the scale here 150 to the PH etc ? Or how did you go with it ? If I may ask.

I have payed zero for one of my phs and gave all his money to the trackers etc and have paid around 3K for another PH thats the most I have paid and ever will.

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
Mike were you happy with your west african safari and ph´s/trackers etc ? Did you tip after the scale here 150 to the PH etc ? Or how did you go with it ? If I may ask.

Anton

I did tip. In the aggregate I did tip more than I have on my previous Zim safaris even though the quality of the PH was far far better in Zim and Botswana.

I am still in process of writing the rest of my hunt report. But the tipping issue needs to be addressed and this is as good a thread as any other.

The tipping structure was terrible. Their view was American's are a bunch of rich guys and not to bright with their money management skills.

They expected tips far greater than any frenchman would pay or any european would. And given that before this year they only served europeans they suddenly developed a strong view of American tipping.

I tipped by truck well - PH slight below on a daily rate what I tip in zim. My daily tip is in line with what is mentioned here. I tipped my trackers, driver and translator in line with Zim. I left then a fair bit of gear. I was definitely biased towards them. Regardless of what happen on the elephant.

I did not like when I asked for expected tips - I was told to tip the bar tender $100. I had under 12 beers on the whole. I thought for a second I was at the rooftop of the Peninsula Hotel in NYC.

The camp manager/translator expected to be tipped $800. I thought that was f*cking hilarious when he was the one telling me what I should tip everyone else. He did not get $800.

The chef and the assistant chef deserved every cent they got. I gained weight eating two meals a day and no beers. I hunted like a dog too. So the food was excellent.

Overall the trip was eye opening for me in that the whole Zim industry is US centric. I expect tipping. But guys who only service French hunters expect big tips from American kind of shows the general attitude. Rich stupid American bearing gifts.

Just my 2 cents. I like to tip I just don't like being made to or told to tip. I also think local guys in africa who really need the tip more than the PH really appreciate small things sometimes more than just money.

A small ammo container is loved - cause guys can locks their valuables in it when they are in camp. Shoes after the hunt. New or used clothing to stuff a tuffpack. Shaving cream left behind.

Going forward I will take more memory cards - everyone now has a digital camera. I stay in touch with local guys on facebook.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
A PH must bust his ass for each and every client and is that not his job? That is what you pay for. His gratuity (if he receives one) is pure gravy.

Never have I ever come a scenario where a PH or Operator interferes with a client's trophies.

Tipping staff is simply part of the safari culture and relates to good service. The amount is ultimately at the clients discretion and can be simply discussed with the PH around the campfire.

How can one possibly recommend a tip prior to a safari?

That's the point Andrew.

In all the safari camps I have been in, service has always been fantastic.

And feels he might be short changing them, regardless of how much is left as tip.

But, my feelings are that we have others in this game who do not do as well.

In fact, some of the stories I got were rather horrifying.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Just my 2 cents. I like to tip I just don't like being made to or told to tip.
Mike

I think you have a lot of company...myself included.


Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I had under 12 beers on the whole.

Good God man, what a tragedy. We need to start a thread on drinking on safari, then I am sure we will find something that the Kiwi's kick ass at.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
I had under 12 beers on the whole.

Good God man, what a tragedy. We need to start a thread on drinking on safari, then I am sure we will find something that the Kiwi's kick ass at.

I blame my p@ss ass poor drinking on ar and me being a cheap bastard. When I saw the ar thread on malaria medication prices. I got a boatload from India - my mom was there for a family wedding.

The medication - oxy something and beers did not work together. I had to choose malaria meds or beers - I chickened out and choose malaria meds.

I am done taking medical advice on ar I will remain a cheap bastard till my dying day.

Mike

quote:

How can one possibly recommend a tip prior to a safari?

Agreed, totally absurd !

If the client wants to discuss the tipping issue during the hunt with his PH while sipping Gin and Bitters round the campfire, it would just be a topic of conversation but to establish the amounts prior to the hunt ending is plain dumb.

I've hunted and fished in eight different countries on four different continents and I still don't feel comfortable with what is expected for tips because each country and outfitter is different.

I tip or not based on the country that I'm in. As a visitor to their country I base my actions on the host people's expectations.

In the places where tipping is expected (i.e. North, South and Central America, Africa, etc.) Typically, 15%-20% are what Americans are used to tipping for service employees so my tips are based on that percentage of my total hunt costs. The only thing that I use the recommended tipping guidelines for is to calculate what percentage of that amount goes to each individual or group of staff.

In places where tips are not expected like New Zealand, Europe, etc. Typically I just tell the people how much I appreciated the service and leave a small gift, if appropriate.

i didn't know Oxycontin was used for malaria prophylaxis- and yes, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to mix it with beer

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i didn't know Oxycontin was used for malaria prophylaxis- and yes, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to mix it with beer

Damn doctors

Doxycycline

I am done with AR medicine

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by P-A Åhlén:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUN
Mark

/ P-A

Per Arne,

no offense meant, but that Swedish agent cannot have had sent many hunters for hunting in US/Canada, Africa nor Russia/Asia lately or the last 20 years !

Come on - 100 dollars for a 10 day DG hunt is almost offending the PH. The Swedish agents advice was very bad and must have been based on no knowledge how the hunting industry works. And for sure the hunters had not done their homework !

I am not saying that tips of several thousands of dollars is the correct thing Per Arne - I totally agree on that. I give tip when the hunting days are over and papers are done, but as many I struggle with this issue of tipping. One thing I do not understand is why a high price hunt should result in a big tip in compariosn of a low price hunt. I understand more tipping based on days in the Field, but I as I told previously in this thread I have heard some very "bad" stories and I find my self on the low average level I guess ! That means 6-10% of the cost ex trophy fees !

This is where I think you make your mistake. That Swedish booking agent says the same thing the Austrian, German, and even the French agents say. That a tip may be expected but how much is entirely up to you. You would be hard pressed to convince me that a European booking agent would ever convey to his clients a safari company's desire for a minimum tip in any other manner than as a warning to pick a different company. I doubt that a European agent would handle the Safari company that published a requested tip guide. That may or may not be the case but it is certainly true that I have never heard the topic raised while working out trip details in Europe.

quote:

Come on - 100 dollars for a 10 day DG hunt is almost offending the PH.

And going to the other extreme is paying him 100% a day of is salary

I have to say, thank God I come from a country where workers are paid a proper wage and tipping was made irrelevant in the 1930's.

I view a tip on a safari the same as a gift. The price for wages, costs etc etc has already been quoted and accepted by me and the outfitter.

I really can't reconcile the term "Professional" with the term "tip" too.

I like to give gifts to some of the people if the safari has been enjoyable. I find it really distasteful when a gift is given and one receives sour and complaining looks. Only ever had this happen on one safari. This happened in an area where there is a lot of American clients. All the staff expect BIG tips. Every other safari, American clients have been in lesser proportions and the staff were very happy with their "gifts". Personally I have no idea about 10 percents, 15 percents, 20 percents of daily fees ideas. Sounds all a bit ridiculous.

Now it might surprise some, that some outfitters cater almost exclusively for non-USA markets. Almost all of their clients are from France, Germany, Scandinavia, Australia etc. Guess what expectations of tipping are with these outfits? Are the staff happy and work hard? The same as anywhere else, and often better, they not worrying if the client will be a "cheap skate" at the end ... Some of these outfitters like dealing with these other markets for completely different reasons, like the clients are there to enjoy the hunting, not the tape measure score, not tantruming if they get less than eight cubes of ice in their drink glass, able to walk more than 50 metres from the bakkie without collapsing ... and all sorts of other reasons.

A German I hunted with - see below - once replied to me about hunting elk in North America. I can tell you the prices he named were a hell of a lot less than I expected. He said they were European prices, no one pays USA prices. And his hunt was in the USA.

I will finish off with two points.

Once upon a time I was at a gathering and a PH said: "The tip isn't about how good the safari is, but how much the client thinks you are his friend."

Secondly I have actually been tipped myself!!! A friend asked me if I could take a foreign friend of her's husband out for a hunt. And it was a German at that. I did it for free. At the end he offered me a couple of hundred dollars, which at first I refused to take, but he insisted. It paid for the fuel and food etc, plus a bit more. It was appreciated but certainly not expected ...

I like to give gifts myself as said, but paying $4000 in "tips" can be pretty much the cost of a hunt. Well it feels like it anyway ...

An interesting article just popped up on Yahoo - worth reading:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/...96.html?soc_src=copy

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
I have to say, thank God I come from a country where workers are paid a proper wage and tipping was made irrelevant in the 1930's.

I view a tip on a safari the same as a gift. The price for wages, costs etc etc has already been quoted and accepted by me and the outfitter.

I really can't reconcile the term "Professional" with the term "tip" too.

I like to give gifts to some of the people if the safari has been enjoyable. I find it really distasteful when a gift is given and one receives sour and complaining looks. Only ever had this happen on one safari. This happened in an area where there is a lot of American clients. All the staff expect BIG tips. Every other safari, American clients have been in lesser proportions and the staff were very happy with their "gifts". Personally I have no idea about 10 percents, 15 percents, 20 percents of daily fees ideas. Sounds all a bit ridiculous.

Now it might surprise some, that some outfitters cater almost exclusively for non-USA markets. Almost all of their clients are from France, Germany, Scandinavia, Australia etc. Guess what expectations of tipping are with these outfits? Are the staff happy and work hard? The same as anywhere else, and often better, they not worrying if the client will be a "cheap skate" at the end ... Some of these outfitters like dealing with these other markets for completely different reasons, like the clients are there to enjoy the hunting, not the tape measure score, not tantruming if they get less than eight cubes of ice in their drink glass, able to walk more than 50 metres from the bakkie without collapsing ... and all sorts of other reasons.

A German I hunted with - see below - once replied to me about hunting elk in North America. I can tell you the prices he named were a hell of a lot less than I expected. He said they were European prices, no one pays USA prices. And his hunt was in the USA.

I will finish off with two points.

Once upon a time I was at a gathering and a PH said: "The tip isn't about how good the safari is, but how much the client thinks you are his friend."

Secondly I have actually been tipped myself!!! A friend asked me if I could take a foreign friend of her's husband out for a hunt. And it was a German at that. I did it for free. At the end he offered me a couple of hundred dollars, which at first I refused to take, but he insisted. It paid for the fuel and food etc, plus a bit more. It was appreciated but certainly not expected ...

I like to give gifts myself as said, but paying $4000 in "tips" can be pretty much the cost of a hunt. Well it feels like it anyway ...

Agreed 10000%

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i didn't know Oxycontin was used for malaria prophylaxis- and yes, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to mix it with beer

Come on now!! Think outside the box man. The mosquito bites you and instantly overdoses. Jeez!! Keep up on the journals will 'ya.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
I have to say, thank God I come from a country where workers are paid a proper wage and tipping was made irrelevant in the 1930's.

I view a tip on a safari the same as a gift. The price for wages, costs etc etc has already been quoted and accepted by me and the outfitter.

I really can't reconcile the term "Professional" with the term "tip" too.

I like to give gifts to some of the people if the safari has been enjoyable. I find it really distasteful when a gift is given and one receives sour and complaining looks. Only ever had this happen on one safari. This happened in an area where there is a lot of American clients. All the staff expect BIG tips. Every other safari, American clients have been in lesser proportions and the staff were very happy with their "gifts". Personally I have no idea about 10 percents, 15 percents, 20 percents of daily fees ideas. Sounds all a bit ridiculous.

Now it might surprise some, that some outfitters cater almost exclusively for non-USA markets. Almost all of their clients are from France, Germany, Scandinavia, Australia etc. Guess what expectations of tipping are with these outfits? Are the staff happy and work hard? The same as anywhere else, and often better, they not worrying if the client will be a "cheap skate" at the end ... Some of these outfitters like dealing with these other markets for completely different reasons, like the clients are there to enjoy the hunting, not the tape measure score, not tantruming if they get less than eight cubes of ice in their drink glass, able to walk more than 50 metres from the bakkie without collapsing ... and all sorts of other reasons.

A German I hunted with - see below - once replied to me about hunting elk in North America. I can tell you the prices he named were a hell of a lot less than I expected. He said they were European prices, no one pays USA prices. And his hunt was in the USA.

I will finish off with two points.

Once upon a time I was at a gathering and a PH said: "The tip isn't about how good the safari is, but how much the client thinks you are his friend."

Secondly I have actually been tipped myself!!! A friend asked me if I could take a foreign friend of her's husband out for a hunt. And it was a German at that. I did it for free. At the end he offered me a couple of hundred dollars, which at first I refused to take, but he insisted. It paid for the fuel and food etc, plus a bit more. It was appreciated but certainly not expected ...

I like to give gifts myself as said, but paying $4000 in "tips" can be pretty much the cost of a hunt. Well it feels like it anyway ...

Agreed 10000%

You have to go to Africa to buy your friends? I get mine locally, saves on the travel expense. Greener that way, less of a carbon footprint and keeps the money local.