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[/QUOTE] I am willing to bet if you knew much about Steve, you would not call him dumb and illiterate. If he is as you claim, I am wiling to bet that there are a hell of a lot of people who wish they were dumb and illiterate.. | |||
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Can't argue that. However, I've become bored of his continued claims of some "protected class" that doesn't tip. Specially since he now thinks it's OK since he's a Kiwi.(now) Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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I will second India has a tipping culture. It may not be the 15 percent which is our norm here in the US. But India has a tipping culture and that culture is local - local Indians tip. Mike | |||
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It is a little odd. It is a bit like me going to England and deciding that I am going to drive on the right side of the road because that is what we do here in the US. When in Rome..... | |||
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I could not careless about what culture one comes from, or if they tip there or not. Trouble is some outfitters have taken this to new heights, where a list of individuals are given to the client, and told how much to pay each! | |||
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Whining is so unbecoming.  Mike | |||
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I think I mentioned this, in this very thread, many pages ago. I hunted Elephant with Johan Calitz Safaris (not with Johan) in 2006. I hunted in 2 camps. One for Elephant (NG41) the other in the Delta (I think NG31)for Lechwe and Tsessebe. I was given a tip sheet in both camps and was expected to tip "appropriately" in both camps. The entire Safari was 14 days. The tip sheet was 22 employees long, in each camp. I really didn't know what to do. PH was a good dude and told me to split it in half for each camp and don't give it a second thought. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Yep ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I have no issue leaving a little gratuity for everyone in camp who did something if I think they did well for me... as a thank you, not serious money... the tip should not amount to a sizable fraction of their wages for the same time, imo. But being told what is a minimum expectation sounds like wages to me as well. | |||
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Exactly I don't think most of us complain necessarily, but trying to get a sense of the fact, that lots of hunts become stressful when it comes to tip demands especially when it's written in contracts and on websites Mike it's not whining, it's simple discussion at least for most of us " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Nope, but based on your pretentious statement: "I am a Kiwi. I have lived here for 25 years" responded accordingly and my response was fair, valid and without insult. I have lived in TZ all my life which would be more than 25 years - would that make me Tanzanian? | |||
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Larry That was a simple logical statement based on evidence of how he failed read his own post and mine. If he was intelligent and well read, we would not be having this spat. There was no reason for him to start this uncalled for personal attacks. Just classic old "mister multiple names" from years ago.
I am willing to bet if you knew much about Steve, you would not call him dumb and illiterate. If he is as you claim, I am wiling to bet that there are a hell of a lot of people who wish they were dumb and illiterate..[/QUOTE] "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Doc You have class, as always. I never doubt that. Yes India has a tipping culture. But it is not any where similar to US. Indian "bakshish" is a very small tip. 25 cents or 50 cents is a reasonable tip in a good restaurant! India also has a horrible corrupt system of extortion & bribes. Totally different issue. I do not see any of that as cultural or contextual equivalent of the current topic. I am not going to get into an anthropological thesis to refute some of your comments. I will just say that they are wrong in context, wrong in interpretation of my comments and wrong in principle. Nit picking on one word or one sentence does not communicate the real essence of what I said. Just look at what Cal and few other said earlier - interpreting my post as intended. BTW, I am Indian by birth and culture. I am also Kiwi & western in the way I have grown up - both in India and NZ. All my friends treat me as a Westerner first and also respect my Indian heritage. There are many here who are multi cultural in their upbringing and identity. Just look at the PHs for example. I am surprised that in this day and age people are so narrow minded to label others just on ethnic origin!
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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And Organized, don't forget organized.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Unless something exceptional happens why should you tip? You've paid the fee's for the hunt which include's a guide. The guide takes you out and point's out an animal worth shooting. The guide is paid something by the outfitter, paying the guide is his problem. Mostly it doesn't sound like the outfitter pays the guide very well and lays it back on you to pay him! When you contracted to hunt this trip, what did you pay for? The ability to give a guide a tip weather earned or not? I seldom ever tip. Something special has to happen to get me to do that and then the tip is in cash. Guy's that tip because they think they have to are a huge part of the problem. You already paid for the service's of a guide, if he deserve more tell the outfitter! If the guide does something special, tip him. He's being paid to do the job he's doing! You will probably never guess but I don't do guided hunt's, can't afford them! | |||
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Unfortunately, tips are now expected. Many of my hunts the subject comes up early in the hunt as a "hint" not to forget to tip but sometimes how much is expected. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Don't hunt with people like that. | |||
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Good advice, but when in camp it's too late. Cheers, Jan. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Tips scare the fucking begeezus out of me! It is one more tool the outfitter has to fuck you over. You are only in control if you drove to the location. You can always throw the animal in the back of your truck and drive off into the sunset. My new rule on tipping. You will get your tip when I am sitting in my house and the animal(s) has been delivered to me. | |||
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Chifuti does this but they are clear that it is a suggestion sheet and the client should tip based on his opinion of the service/professionalism etc. I find it helpful because I really have no idea how much money the staff are paid or what denomination they are paid in. It gave me a sense that I was at least in the right ballpark. This was on a very successful hunt where I was more than pleased with the performance of all the staff, especially the PH. I think it gets more complicated if you are not happy with some aspect of the experience. USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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You know, these companies that give you a list of what to pay each of their employees, would they refund your money if the hunt was not up to your expectations? | |||
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I feel the need to respond to Don Fischer's post. Yes, tipping is now almost universally expected. Do I wish that businesses like restaurants that rely on tips for their employees pay them more-sure. And yes, I realize that Americans such as myself are a major part of the problem. I haven't traveled internationally as much as many on this forum-I wonder how they feel they are treated in countries where tipping is not done compared to the U.S.? I do know I really, really like how I get treated at my favorite restaurant in my hometown by my favorite waiter when I go. And yes, I tip him very well. If a restaurant could/would survive with a "no tipping" policy I wonder why it has not been tried? As far as his comments about "I can't afford guided hunts": I recently retired from running a business for 42 years that depended on my clients/customers disposable income. The services that I provided were not an essential part of day to day life (like food, shelter, etc.). One of my colleagues at a meeting many years ago made a comment that still rings true: "Clients can afford ANYTHING that they want, but they cannot afford EVERYTHING that they want". Mr. Fischer, with all due respect, I would bet that if you gave me full control of your income and expenses that you could afford a plains game safari within 3-5 years max. After raising four (now all adult) children and hearing them moan and groan about how they were barely making it financially when I made the same offer to them none of them took me up on it. There is always a way to cut corners. Your priorities just need to be adjusted. OK, off my soapbox. "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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Americans working in the service industry( wait staff, cabbies, bellhop, etc) simply assume it is their God given right to be tipped, regardless of the level of service. You are expected to subsidize low( or even good) wages. It is not that way in other parts of the world... Ameicans are to blame for creating this monster, then complain about it. Go figure.... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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I can agree with most of that, the only place I differ, is that it was the clientele in the more affluent metropolitan areas, New York City et al, that got it all started by realizing that a little "Palm Greasing" got them preferential treatment, and it is still practised in many places. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Personally, if I were to decide not to tip anyone on a safari, I would have trouble sleeping at night. The only question is How much? With some of the larger camps hosting multiple parties at one time, you might have 30 or more camp staff. Do you plan on tipping each one $10 or $20 bucks? That seems a little steep to me. When I stay at a hotel I generally tip $2.00 a night for housekeeping. I don't tip the maintenance people, gardeners, etc. Om my last safari I left $200.00 for the camp staff to include the camp manager. That person acted like I was being a cheap skate. Can't please 'em all. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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Therein lies the problem. Many of them are used to not only tips, but big tips. I used to go overboard on tipping. Mine are now all in envelopes and handed out when I leave. I tip respectfully, as to how I have been treated and how the safari has gone. One gentleman PH bragged to me the following year that he had bought a new bedroom set and new living room furniture with my tip. I then re-adjusted the tip accordingly. Another said that he had taken his wife on a trip to the Greek Islands and bought her a new diamond ring. Same thing: a re-adjustment. You learn over time. When I used to give out tips before I left, sometimes I had them put on a crybaby show about the size and nature of the tip, which I increased due to the guilt that I was made to feel. Finally, I started to put it in envelopes and hand it out as I was leaving for the airport. | |||
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. . . perhaps because you were.  Mike | |||
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I realize this is beating a  but I don't get the complaining about the tips. If you don't tip or choose to leave a relatively small tip you've just got to be able to own it. If you feel uncomfortable about not tipping or leaving a small tip that's on you. Nobody has made you feel uncomfortable you've done that to yourself. As for the camp crew or PH talking about tips I don't think they should bring it up at all during the safari unless the client asked about it. On the last day the PH might say something about a tip for the crew and I find that appropriate. Also concerning the crew or PH acting disgruntled about the amount of their tip that is just bad manners. I've never encountered that nor have I had that kind of feedback from any of my clients. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Mark, This is not strictly true. On numerous occasions, clients have complained that they got a rather sad attitude from their PH when they have left a tip that he thought was not good enough. What actually is very sad to see is the fact that many adverts or offers making it so obvious that tips are expected, and they tell this in the list of items not included in your hunt. Like air tickets and hotel accommodation. One has no choice about air travel, and if he wishes to stay outside the allotted time frame of his hunt he has to pay for a hotel. So the tip is mentioned there to make sure he is aware of it. | |||
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Saeed, Exactly! "Made aware". Every new African client I have asks about tips. I tell them tips are not required in any way but are customary. Putting a statement in the Extras stating "Gratuity at hunter's discretion" lets a client know that they need to budget for a tip if they want to leave one. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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What Mark said. | |||
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Sorry, I guess I can't leave this alone. I've only been on 3 safaris, but I have been to South America bird shooting many times. On those trips I never once felt any pressure from the outfitter to shoot a lot (even though I did) and run up a big shell bill, and I never felt any pressure from the outfitter regarding tips either. I did (and will continue to do) ask what is "average" and adjusted up or down accordingly. I have tipped well below "average" and well above "average" depending on how the bird boys/staff treated me. On my African hunts I always asked my PH what was "expected" and on my first I did that and felt good doing it. Second safari (elephant hunt) I went up probably close to double to the trackers and driver, as they worked their friggin asses off for me like no other hunt I have ever been on. Third trip (same PH and trackers) went back to "average" and all three of them went well out of their way to tell me goodbye before they left, which made me feel really good. As I have stated before, I am not near as experienced in international travel and customs as many on this site. Having said that, while I consider myself a red-necked conservative from Texas, I don't feel the need to fuel the "Ugly American" mystique. I do make a concerted effort to inquire about the customs of every country that I travel to hunting or just for leisure so that I can try to accommodate their customs, not just mine. Again, just my $.02. "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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Perhaps, but I was paying $1400.00 a day for the camp, and we would leave before daylight, get back after dark, eat dinner and off to bed. So other than a little bit of laundry (rained a couple of days so no laundry), making the bed, a quick breakfast, a packed lunch, and dinner, I doubt that anyone killed themselves catering to me. The PH and his crew were tipped fairly good IMO. I gave each tracker about $175.00 and the PH got a $100.00 a day for each day we hunted. Perhaps if I were a multi-millionaire, I could throw out thousands of dollars to every one who smiled at me, but I worked hard for my money (LOL). BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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. . . so does the camp staff. Mike | |||
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The camp staff is that element within the workforce that the client hardly ever notices due to his absence from camp. Those guys seldom take a break as camp chores are far more than you could imagine and their services are not simply related to "waiting on you". You also ought to bear in mind that "leaving before daylight" and " back after dark" signifies them being up well before you and going to bed after you. If due to the rain there was no laundry, it just means it piled up and was concluded once weather permitted (I very much doubt you continued wearing soiled clothes). Maybe you did short-change the poor buggers after all. | |||
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The whole idea that it is actually mentioned, makes it unacceptable. I have refused to pay the "service charge" in 5-Star restaurants when service was not up to scratch. | |||
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Giving those sums of money to the Ph or trackers should not be called a tip.Giving 200 dollars to a tracker is almost what some people get paid in NA for unloading 40ft containers 5 days a week for a 40hr week.It is also humiliating to the PH and trackers,embarrassiing to the client to have to put money in an envelope at the end of the hunt etc...On the other hand I think they should be paid fairly it's just that I feel that it is the outfitters job to pay them not the clients. | |||
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I tip too much. Jeff | |||
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Could it simply be possible that just because an individual can do a hunt in Africa it does not indicate they have an unlimited supply of money and simply will not be able to tip as lavishly as another individual might? Reading the comments that have been made on this "ISSUE", one could interpret that some seem to feel that if an individual can not afford handing out a certain level of gratuities, they possibly should not go on a safari. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Guys, We of course are rehashing the same old comments on tipping but suggesting that if the safari operator would just pay his crew more there would be no need to tip is false economy. Who do you suppose would pay for that increase in the crew's wages? Your daily rate would skyrocket and I promise you the custom of tipping would not disappear. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting TIPS! The Subject Keeps Coming Up Frequently, Please Help.
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