As a client, there is no way that you will ever know if the tip you gave to camp staff and PH ever gets given to them. I was once supposed to be given a $1500 tip from my client that he left with the outfitter. After 2 months of unanswered emails to him It came out he was a little upset with my "ungratefulness" for not acknowledging his "gift". I never received it and told him so. He then felt bad for accusing me and also for being taken for a fool by the outfitter. If you are going to tip, go to each staff member and give it to them personally. In their local currency, because they will get shafted on the exchange rate by the outfitter. Not every outfitter is your "best friend". Some do take their own cut out of the staff tip. Some also hold it back or keep it to manipulate and intimidate staff. So if you feel the need to give, give it to each of them personally.There are a lot of behind the scenes shenanigans at a hunting camp that a some of you don't want to know about.

If you are concerned about the outfitter/safari operator shafting the crew out of their tips I would suggest booking with someone else. Many African operators do hold the tips until the end of the season as it avoids absenteeism caused by the money burning a hole in the staff's pockets.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Hunter54,

What you described is inexcusable. Tips are not compulsory in any way, shape or manner.

Mark

Yes!

This!

I am so tired of hearing a waitresses life story I have quit tipping them.

When we lived in the south I had tips backfire on me. The kid that worked at the carwash was a neighbor a few doors down. He did an ok job and I threw $10 in the tip bucket.

I woke up early to a big snow, and I shoveled both of our front steps. He came by the next time it snowed and shoveled ours. Then knocked on the door demanding that my wife pay him the next time.

I hate tipping with a passion. It has resulted in people who don't care about doing their job unless there is a dollar in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Hunter54,

What you described is inexcusable. Tips are not compulsory in any way, shape or manner.

Mark

Yes!

This!

I am so tired of hearing a waitresses life story I have quit tipping them.

When we lived in the south I had tips backfire on me. The kid that worked at the carwash was a neighbor a few doors down. He did an ok job and I threw $10 in the tip bucket.

I woke up early to a big snow, and I shoveled both of our front steps. He came by the next time it snowed and shoveled ours. Then knocked on the door demanding that my wife pay him the next time.

I hate tipping with a passion. It has resulted in people who don't care about doing their job unless there is a dollar in it.

I am very happy to live in a country that don't have a tipping culture! I believe our system were the staff is paid for the work it conducts is better

It's your money! Spend it, don't spend it any way you want. You are never obligated to tip

Pretty simple. Remember it's your hunt, your funding the hunt and your the boss of the hunt.

I've had a PH come around with a recommended tip list for each person in camp. I didn't agree with it and gave each what I believed was appropriate.

When I went on my second hunt in 2013 in Namibia with Jan du Plessis of Sebra Hunting Safaris, he presented me with his invoice for services rendered, and said that it was his "least favorite" part of the hunt. I looked him in the eyes and said that it was my "most favorite" part of the hunt, because I could express my gratitude to him and his wife for a fabulous hunt and wonderful hospitality. I gave him as much as I can afford on a retiree's budget, and told him I'd be back to hunt with him in 2015. I leave June 22, 2015 for my third hunt with Jan, and can't wait. I had surgery on my left knee to improved my mobility, and have dieted and lost 18 pounds so far.

I give 10 percent. I try and make sure the camp staff know it's comming and have the outfitter split it up appropriately.

Been on two safaris, 2011 and 2015. First one in 2011 I asked for the PH's recommendation for everyone (except him) and felt they were reasonable, and I felt I received exceptional service, so I added about 10-15% to his recommendations. This year, I felt the PH's recommendation was very conservative (his words: "they will probably expect $XXX. I felt that I received such exceptional service that I doubled his crew's tips, added about 10% to the camp staff, and tipped the PH very well. I would do it again tomorrow. I don't think that anyone who can afford to go to Africa cannot afford to tip well. Those of us that go are blessed and need to remember that, IMHO.

I forgot to mention: I put everyone's tip in an envelope with their name on it and personally put it in their hand. Went to Bolivia last year on a dove shoot and observed the operator "shaking down" (my words) the bird boys after we gave them their tips. Needless to say, I will never go back with that operator.

quote:

Originally posted by drj:
Been on two safaris, 2011 and 2015. First one in 2011 I asked for the PH's recommendation for everyone (except him) and felt they were reasonable, and I felt I received exceptional service, so I added about 10-15% to his recommendations. This year, I felt the PH's recommendation was very conservative (his words: "they will probably expect $XXX. I felt that I received such exceptional service that I doubled his crew's tips, added about 10% to the camp staff, and tipped the PH very well. I would do it again tomorrow. I don't think that anyone who can afford to go to Africa cannot afford to tip well. Those of us that go are blessed and need to remember that, IMHO.

I, too, asked the PH was was "standard"/recommended, using different words. I concurred with his suggestion to his crew as I figured that he knew them better than I and would suggest higher/lower numbers depending on how good he thought that they did. From there I went on my own to tip the PH and his guides.

quote:

Originally posted by drj:
.................. I don't think that anyone who can afford to go to Africa cannot afford to tip well. .

All I can say to this is speak for yourself. I had to beg take out a loan to get to Africa so NO, I can not afford to tip.

As we're on the subject. What are the standards for tipping for an observer ? My wife will be with me on a trip to Sango in a few weeks.

Just curious but Who sets the "Standards" for tipping and who monitors that the "Standards" are followed?

So...
Here's one...
Just did a 9 day Plains Game hunt...did the "normal" tips for all the guys..(skinners, staff, etc,)
The "recommended" tip for PH/Outfitter was 10-15% of "total cost of hunt" much like one would see for say a Fishing Charter.
For people used to that would you believe that means 10-15% of Daily Rate/base cost??? or...10-15% including trophy fees??
I really struggle if that recommended (and thus hoped for/expected) number is the true total cost.
I consider myself to be a good tipper in general and i put myself through College working for tips, so I am sensitive to it.
I generally follow the $100/day for PH as a rule of thumb, which I did here plus a little.
Any opinions on the interpretation of "hunt cost"? I would struggle to believe on might expect say double that potentially based on trophy fees too (which they already make money on)

quote:

Originally posted by 4-5-0:
As we're on the subject. What are the standards for tipping for an observer ? My wife will be with me on a trip to Sango in a few weeks.

The standard is the guy paying does the tipping as far as I know. When I take my wife as an observer or son as a 2x1 there's one bill and one(set) of tips.

Dogleg, Thanks, that makes perfect sense.

After reading so much good stuff here, I almost would tip my PH after the hunt is 100% comp[lete. That is the trophies are home. I understand he has not control over the shipment when in transit, but he can assist in the dip and pack, paperwork, and timely shipment to SA for the final leg to the US. If he is waiting for a tip (average or substantial) he may be more willing to make sure all goes well.
Just an opinion.
Cal

I totally agree with Mark.
If you do not trust your PH to give his staff their tips, don't hunt with him.

One can always tell when a camp has well paid and happy staff.

It makes it even better when you see that they are happy to see you again.

Rule 303, I know in many countries tipping is not done. I wish the U.S. was like that, as many times I have had a bad experience that was not the fault of the server, and although tips are almost always shared among the staff in an establishment there is no way that a patron can short the people who screwed things up without hurting someone, e.g. the server who may have done a great job. Having said that, if I get poor service from a server I tip poorly or not at all. Two of my four children helped put themselves through college waiting tables at multiple establishments, and they have assured me that if a server gets "stiffed" repeatedly the rest of the staff, and management, either correct the situation or get rid of that employee. As far as Africa goes, I think you need to remember how much the team does (and does not) get paid. If you can afford the trip, you can afford to tip decently, or don't go. Would you go to an expensive restaurant, say for a special occasion, knowing that the staff is paid primarily on tips, and make the same statement that you "could not afford to tip"? In Africa, how much I tip depends on what each individual does for me, and how well. For example, on my last trip, the camp manager was the same individual who managed the camp I was in in 2011. The quality of the camp was significantly different on my 2015 trip (not nearly as well run). After confirming with my PH that this camp manager was not doing as good a job as he could have, I let that show when I passed out the tips on the last day-I gave him a fraction of what I gave him in 2011. Not trying to start a pissing contest over this, just my $.02.

quote:

If you can afford the trip, you can afford to tip decently, or don't go. Would you go to an expensive restaurant, say for a special occasion, knowing that the staff is paid primarily on tips, and make the same statement that you "could not afford to tip"? In Africa, how much I tip depends on what each individual does for me, and how well. For example, on my last trip, the camp manager was the same individual who managed the camp I was in in 2011. The quality of the camp was significantly different on my 2015 trip (not nearly as well run). After confirming with my PH that this camp manager was not doing as good a job as he could have, I let that show when I passed out the tips on the last day-I gave him a fraction of what I gave him in 2011. Not trying to start a pissing contest over this, just my $.02.

TWO EXCELLENT POINTS!!!!!!!

Mark

I am kind of cheap, but on a successful DG hunt (the only two safaris I've ever been on), I tipped the PH $100.00 a day for each day we hunted. At the end of the safari, I tipped the cook, tracker, and skinner, each $50.00 and then gave $50.00 for the rest of the camp staff (maybe 4 people). I also tipped an apprentice PH (who did nothing useful but slice the roasts at night and pour wine) a $100.00 at the end of the safari.

Considering the standard wage of the country you are in (RSA and Zim for me), those tips are very lucrative IMO.

It would be interesting to know what the Outfitter pays his staff (including the PHs).

JMO

BH63

I hate tipping, Hunt with a guy for 8-12 days you become friends, get to the end of hunt and you have to deal with tips. First thing that crosses my mind is they're just a prostitute. I had my PH get mad at me because I tipped one of the kitchen boys as much as the head tracker. I told him it wasn't his money to tell me who to tip what.
Next time I book a hunt, I'm going to tell the outfit up front I'm not tipping anybody figure it out what you need and give me your price, if I like it I'll book the hunt.
Has anybody ever tried this method? this may have been already discussed in the last 10 pages.

quote:

Originally posted by Expat:
As a client, there is no way that you will ever know if the tip you gave to camp staff and PH ever gets given to them. I was once supposed to be given a $1500 tip from my client that he left with the outfitter. After 2 months of unanswered emails to him It came out he was a little upset with my "ungratefulness" for not acknowledging his "gift". I never received it and told him so. He then felt bad for accusing me and also for being taken for a fool by the outfitter. If you are going to tip, go to each staff member and give it to them personally. In their local currency, because they will get shafted on the exchange rate by the outfitter. Not every outfitter is your "best friend". Some do take their own cut out of the staff tip. Some also hold it back or keep it to manipulate and intimidate staff. So if you feel the need to give, give it to each of them personally.There are a lot of behind the scenes shenanigans at a hunting camp that a some of you don't want to know about.

As Mark said.

And to add to that is the fact that the staff remain the same year after year, and always look forward to seeing you as you look forward to your hunt.

I don't like tips just like most of you.

But, I honestly feel people working in a hunting camp are infinitely more deserving of a tip than some of the idiots we see working at 5 star hotels.

At ProSaf in Zim, I always let the MUller boys figure out the tips. what I don't agree with is tipping the Game Scout. These useless tits just get in the way and in no way are there for us or the PH they are a government imposed nuisance. the one we had texted on his ohine all dayh. Totally useless!

Devils' Advocate Time:

Yes I have tipped on my Safari's--
but
TIPS ARE EARNED-
end of story-

some people got them , some did not,
simply had to do with service, effort, etc-

The-
"If you can afford to go you can afford to tip" is pure unadulterated crap-

Some of these posts even make me wonder--

Sounds like some of You guys must tip your Doctor, Nurse, Your Airline Pilot, Flight attendant , Mechanic, Lawyer, Neighborhood Policeman, etc , etc --

after all How important in your life have they been??

I dare say equal to a -
PH , Tracker, Skinner, Cook that helped for 7 to 28 days of your hunt

JM2C

quote:

But, I honestly feel people working in a hunting camp are infinitely more deserving of a tip than some of the idiots we see working at 5 star hotels.

quote:

I had my PH get mad at me because I tipped one of the kitchen boys as much as the head tracker. I told him it wasn't his money to tell me who to tip what.

I had a PH tell me that who and how much you tip to his staff can cause a lot of headaches for the PH on subsequent safaris.

Overtip, and his staff will expect that from every "rich" client, and if they don't get that amount the next time, they will feel cheated and may slack off or take out their resentment in other ways (peeing in your shower water for example).

Status is very important with many of the staff and if a kitchen helper gets the same tip as a head tracker there is a loss of face for the tracker.

My advice is listen to your PH when it comes to tipping his staff, as he has to live with them and manage them for dozens, if not hundreds, of safaris, and you are only there once or twice.

In Africa, locals will sometimes kill another over a two dollar chicken, so please listen to your PH.

BH63

buffhunter63,

Your statement is exactly right. I tell all my clients to let the PH figure out who gets what as far as the staff tip goes. If you can give X amount OF $$ FOR the staff tip let the PH divide it up as appropriate. Tipping randomly during the safari and/or not following the pecking order at safari's end causes all sorts of unrest in the safari camp. I understand wanting to tip the folks you think are most deserving but we have to realize we as clients are out of our element and don't understand the intricacies of running a safari camp.

Mark

On the subject of tips, my wife recently informed me that our JEWELER (whom we've used for a number of years) now has blank line on his invoice for tips. Really? Where does the tip madness end?

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:

quote:

I had my PH get mad at me because I tipped one of the kitchen boys as much as the head tracker. I told him it wasn't his money to tell me who to tip what.

I had a PH tell me that who and how much you tip to his staff can cause a lot of headaches for the PH on subsequent safaris.

Overtip, and his staff will expect that from every "rich" client, and if they don't get that amount the next time, they will feel cheated and may slack off or take out their resentment in other ways (peeing in your shower water for example).

Status is very important with many of the staff and if a kitchen helper gets the same tip as a head tracker there is a loss of face for the tracker.

My advice is listen to your PH when it comes to tipping his staff, as he has to live with them and manage them for dozens, if not hundreds, of safaris, and you are only there once or twice.

In Africa, locals will sometimes kill another over a two dollar chicken, so please listen to your PH.

BH63

Funny this one.

As some of the people I have seen get fired from a camp are those receiving tips directly from some clients.

It seems they develop a taste for it, and cause all sorts of problems with others.

They start thinking they are entitled it to directly from every client.

Unless your PH is an absolute idiot, always follow his recommendations.

Here's my thoughts on tips.


No tips!
1. Buffet or self-service food
2. Fast food
3. Coffee at Starbucks or similar
4. Taxidermist
5. Gunsmith, plumber, mechanic, taxidermist anything that involves a trade
6. Anything that involves a profession that I have to pay for dentist, doctor anything like that

Things I tip 10 to 30% for
1. The bartender
2. The waitress
3. Hunting guides, trackers, cooks or anyone else involved in making my hunt great. If I am never asked about a tip no tip, and as long as good service is given.

The first group doesn't do anything but make everyone else's life worse when I tip them. As they start thinking they are entitled to a tip for everything.

The second group will probably get tipped what I can afford based on the quality of their service, not on how bad the meal was, or weather or not I killed anything.

Tips should never be tired to size of an animal. You are just perpetuating the tipping problem by doing that.

We all have seen this adoration in hunting shows
Best this guy and best that guy and he got me this and that and in the end it is just hunt and fun.
Honestly, tips are at times a total nuisance

I will say that on both my safaris, one to Tanz and one to Zim, the govt. scout pitched in and helped tremendously. Whether assisting in building blinds, locating game or pointing out various flora and fauna by engaging in discussions, I found them helpful and friendly. However, I have heard horror stories.

I will ask the PH what is the usual or expected tip to use as a baseline....then I think about each person and I give them what I feel like giving them.

Some were useless lazy bastards and my tip will reflect that....others that I liked and/or worked hard for me will get double or even triple of what they expected to get.

I don't understand the whole tipping controversy...do whatever YOU feel is the right thing to do.

You are paying a ton of money for the trip and you don't owe anyone anything if you aren't happy

Fellas:
In many or most instances I don't think tipping is a controversy in itself. The problem as I see it is tipping is now expected, even suggested in the amount to tip. I understand being informed the proper amount to tip the camp staff and the hierarchy of tipping the staff, but when a PH tells me at the end of the hunt (and even before the hunt) the dollar figure he wants as a tip is way to of line.

In tipping, I look at it as I do in a restaurant. A tip is not given for average service. If a waitress or waiter brings me water, takes my order, and brings the bill that is average service--the minimum required--and is not deserving of a tip. On the other hand if he or she makes several trips to my table to make sure all is fine, keeps my drink filled, smiles and is personable, and (I hope) does not ask ask me the annoying question, "do you want any change back" and lets me make the decision, I tip well.

The same is true for the hunt. Some staff and PHs go above and beyond the call of duty to make sure my hunt is a memorable experience. Some do the minimum possible.
Just my two cents.
Cal

PS. I also get annoyed when the costs not covered by the daily rate include a statement on tips--like it is mandatory. This is a strong hint it is expected. Twice I have been asked to put tips in an account prior to the hunt to be paid after the hunt. That is bullshit.

Cal,

You might be amazed at how many people are completely clueless about anything associated with safari but still book hunts. I think giving them every detail is the responsible thing to do. On the other hand asking for tips ahead of time is beyond ridiculous.

Mark

As I have stated before on this subject, in many instances tips are not really tips, but an assessment, a hidden charge. When you are "asked" to tip and how much to tip and with whom to tip it cannot be anything else than an assessment.

Hoot,

Tipping is expected if the crew does a good job but it is not compulsory or "Hidden" in anyway that I am familiar with.

Mark

quote:

Tipping is expected if the crew does a good job

Who's prerogative is it to decide whether a job was good or not?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Hoot,

Tipping is expected if the crew does a good job but it is not compulsory or "Hidden" in anyway that I am familiar with.

Mark

Mark,

I agree with everything Cal has written.

And sadly, despite what you might think, tipping IS expected in many places now, and that includes hunting.

I understand what you are saying, that all services that one gets at a safari camp are supposed to have been covered by the price of the safari.

If I am in a restaurant where is normally at least 15% service charge added - and I get quick and efficient service, I don't mine paying it or a bit more at the end.

If I get very slow service, I have no problem deducting that added service charge, and telling them why I am not paying it.

Some of the horror stories we have heard here about some safaris, I would be demanding my money back, let alone leaving a tip.