On my safari in Zim my game scout was a private employee of the Save Conservancy.
I believe his name was Tapiwa, he work just as hard as anyone else to make my safari a success even though he did not have to. You bet I tipped him just as well as any of the other staff.
If you are against tipping, don't tip.
I simply don't mind doing it to those I feel earn it.

This is a question that gets asked every week by hunters ,the answer is simple !
i believe a tip is earned by hard work and dedication ,if a ph has stretched you for 10 days ,got you top class measured trophies or good quality package representatives then say thank you with a hand shake at the end and if luck has it that you have a few dollars left and can spare them ,sure give them to him ,anything is appreciated.
Some hunters save up for 10 years to spend 5k on a hunt ,others are more fortunate and they tip big dollars,this creates a benchmark in the young phs mind that all hunters owe him the same or close. i dissagree ,
my advise is tip what you can afford to tip with no pressure on the amount .it is a thank you ,thats all.
Probably a good question to ask is should i give my ph tip to the outfitter or to the ph directly ???????

quote:

Originally posted by ANDREW RENTON:
Probably a good question to ask is should i give my ph tip to the outfitter or to the ph directly ???????

Actually, there is no obligation to tip the owner, i.e. outfitter, of any business.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by ANDREW RENTON:
Probably a good question to ask is should i give my ph tip to the outfitter or to the ph directly ???????

Actually, there is no obligation to tip the owner, i.e. outfitter, of any business.

While tipping is NOT obligatory, would you really not tip your guide if he was the outfitter - even if he bust his back to get you what you came for - obtaining the same results as a "normal" weathered PH?

Sorry you are not getting what i am saying.
Some outfitters insist you give them the ph tip to pass it on ,half gets there !!!!!!
...........if a outfitter guides a client then he deserves no less if there is a tip .....!

On a 10-14 day plains game hunt we plan on $500 for the camp staff and $1,000 for the PH. Those amounts can vary depending on exceptional or less than satisfactory service. We rarely tip an actual owner even if he guides us.

quote:

We rarely tip an actual owner even if he guides us.

Years ago I owned a conv. store with a small café in it.
My employees received tips for waiting tables, but I never did, nor did I expect it. I was making my money off the sale of the food.
I have not as of yet tipped an owner/outfitter.

quote:

Originally posted by ANDREW RENTON:
Sorry you are not getting what i am saying.
Some outfitters insist you give them the ph tip to pass it on ,half gets there !!!!!!
...........if a outfitter guides a client then he deserves no less if there is a tip .....!

This is not strictly true, especially in Africa.

An honest PH who values his employees, and keeps them for years, is not going to short change them.

Also, some do not like to pay them on each hunt, as some seem to disappear to the village for some unplanned rest and recreation!

quote:

Some hunters save up for 10 years to spend 5k on a hunt ,others are more fortunate and they tip big dollars,this creates a benchmark in the young phs mind that all hunters owe him the same or close.

I don't know, but I suspect any PH so stupid he can't tell the difference after 7-10 days comes to work in a short bus and probably isn't outsmarting a good kudu.

In the Florida Keys, an 8 hour charter on a sport-fisherman typically costs $1000. Some boats have signs printed up that the mate should be tipped 20%. I have had mates get pissy when I only tip them $100/day for ordinary results. But I am not gonna tip anybody $200 for a day of letting them help me fish.

quote:

Originally posted by Marp:
In the Florida Keys, an 8 hour charter on a sport-fisherman typically costs $1000. Some boats have signs printed up that the mate should be tipped 20%. I have had mates get pissy when I only tip them $100/day for ordinary results. But I am not gonna tip anybody $200 for a day of letting them help me fish.

Getting upset because he got $100 MORE than he is supposed to get??

I hope his clients dry up!

No dog in this fight, and while I do not agree with Saeed on many subjects, I do agree with his views on this particular subject.

Well we are in week 4 of our fall season and I would say that tips average about 10 to 15% of the hunt cost to the guide, plus most hunters tip the cook a $100 to $200 and the camp helper (a retired friend who just likes to be here) the same. These are five day hunts.

When I am actually out on a hunt myself I generally tip about the same as what we are receiving. I do not differentiate between employee guides and owners…….. there are owners who don't know shit and just own an outfitting business and have employees that guide, and then there are owners who actively participate and work to get their clients trophies. I have no problem tipping them.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The impression I am getting is that very few people actually object to giving tips.

What they do seem to object to is the tip being made mandatory.

. . . so their solution is to get rid of tips and increase the daily rates.

Personally I would prefer this.

I would rather book my hunts with an outfitter that pays his staff well so they don't need to rely on tips to make a living.
I would rather book my hunts with an outfitter that makes sure he has the best staff possible to make my experience as good as possible and pays them accordingly.

All without any clients leaving any tips whatsoever.

Then I would rather pay higher daily rates and the outfitter would most likely have me as a repeat costumer for many years and I would recommend him to lots of other people.

People in this thread talk about that you have to expect lesser service, lesser trophies or risk having trouble with your trophies if they suspect that you will tip less since you are an European hunter
Or that you should expect to get lesser service and a worse hunt if you come back a second time and tipped poorly on your first hunt.
This tells a lot about how this tipping has gotten out of hand.
It tells me that I am in risk of getting a lesser hunt and experience because I am from Europe and not America, because I am expected to tip less.

I have worked in the restaurant business for some years many years ago.
Here in Norway, we are all paid a decent salary and don't depend on tips.
Still I always made sure to do my best to give our guests the best experience possible, with or without tips.
First of all because it was my job to do so and secondly because I put my pride into giving our guests the best experience possible.

I still got rather much tips.
Maybe because I always gave great service, no matter what.
And the worst tippers where Germans and Americans
Germans because they are not used to give tips at all and Americans because they were told that tips was not common in Norway.
I still gave the Germans and Americans the best service possible.

I would feel much better about booking the hunt if I knew exactly what my cost would be before I booked a hunt.
I would feel much better about booking the hunt knowing that all the staff was paid a decent salary by the outfitter.
I would feel much better about booking the hunt if I knew that the outfitter treated his/her staff well and with respect.
I would feel much better about booking the hunt knowing that the staff would do their best to give me great service no matter what.

And I would have no problems with paying a higher daily fee to cover the outfitters extra cost he/she had with paying his/her staff decent salaries.

When I hunted SA this year I allready had a rough Idea on what to tip from reading info posted on other sites. I left the amount of the tips to My Host He doesn't operate a large concession so it was EZ. His very fine Tracker and i spent time together during the hunt. The cook was the PHs wife so my end of hunt tipping went to the PH, tracker, housekeeper,and utility person.I also made a deal with the tracker if he put me on a nice Kudu he got my brand new Boots along with a tip.I also had a few gifts for my PH and His Wife in my Suitcase which they appreciated

Well, we had a bit of an eye opener in Switzerland last Christmas and New Year.

We stayed in a small village up in the mountains, in a 5-star hotel.

Service was exceptionally good, everyone was extremely polite and went out of their way to help with whatever we wanted.

We asked the manager about tips, and he said all his employees - as everyone else in Switzerland - are well paid, and do not expect tips.

But, if we feel like it, we can leave whatever we wish, and they will be more than happy to accept it.

Makes it a bit sad to see African outfitters specifically mentioning tips in their piece quote.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
...
Makes it a bit sad to see African outfitters specifically mentioning tips in their piece quote.

I had both an RSA and Namibian outfitter demand specific dollar amounts as tips for their PH and staff when about to sign the final invoice. This was especially disheartening having heard from the PH (who freelances)afterwards that 50% of those tips never made it to him or to the camp staff.

Tips amounted to $2,100, after a little negotiation for about 12 days total hunting. I did not want to rock the boat too much as they still had my trophies, but this is unacceptable. I'd prefer to tip them what I feel they're worth. Last time I'll ever use either of these two outfits again.

As always, do your homework/research...with hundreds of outfitters out there, there are bound to be dozens that try this practice to get some extra $$ at the end of each group of hunters.

That's my thing about tips.
If people get paid well, tips wouldn't have such bad name.

Hunter54: It would be nice to know who these two outfitters are so we can avoid doing business with them in the future. Or, send me a PM.

Hunter54,

What you described is inexcusable. Tips are not compulsory in any way, shape or manner.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, we had a bit of an eye opener in Switzerland last Christmas and New Year.

We stayed in a small village up in the mountains, in a 5-star hotel.

Service was exceptionally good, everyone was extremely polite and went out of their way to help with whatever we wanted.

We asked the manager about tips, and he said all his employees - as everyone else in Switzerland - are well paid, and do not expect tips.

But, if we feel like it, we can leave whatever we wish, and they will be more than happy to accept it.

Makes it a bit sad to see African outfitters specifically mentioning tips in their piece quote.

This is how it should be IMO

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:

I did not want to rock the boat too much as they still had my trophies, but this is unacceptable.

The secret hostage in the client-ph tip bargain. I think it is pathetic to hold someone's paid trophies hostage to a getting a formulaic tip and not even having basic decency to pre inform hunter of the tip amount. don't make a service charge into a tip and use trophies to extract the hidden service charge (tip).

Trophies matter to most hunters (they don't to me but I am the exception) - there would be no dip pack Skinners shipping agents clearing agents or taxidermist if trophies were not irrelevant.

Unlike your other high dollar price vacations, hunting safaris don't end when you get home. To hold trophies hostage to getting a formulaic tip is in my books akin to theft. Might as well demand a tip or you won't be driven back to the airport.

Mike

i come from Europe and tip is not in the culture for sure.

when i guided and was too a camp manager that question came from every batch of customers that otter was bringing.

my answer was always the same we are already paid and are not working for tips but for you having a great and successful experience.
if you feel to tip great but dont want to hear any more and staff focused on your experience and hunt.

some hunting or fishing camps had even a sign about how much was expecting from hunters not my way of doing.

when we ran our ice fishing business it was the same and never expected any tips.

i think in North America the reason for tip in the hunting industry is on the tax side ....

all the best.

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by ANDREW RENTON:
Probably a good question to ask is should i give my ph tip to the outfitter or to the ph directly ???????

This is a no brainer.....tip the PH directly

This will give you first hand knowledge that he recieved it

I think, we the hunters created the monster
It probably started with few trinkets and escalated as prices of hunts went up and everyone assumed " The rich " can let few extra bucks go
99% of hunters work hard and save every penny on these so called rich people hunts.
I tip, but reluctantly because it is expected and I don't like that fact
It is definitely A cat out of the bag

and it's a cat that isn't going to go back in the bag!.

This is one time that I am going to place blame where it belongs.

Admittedly, I have benefitted many times because of tipping, but from what I know of the world, Americans are the group that introduced tipping to most of the world, more especially into the hunting/fishing/outdoor recreation world.

Problem is, too many folks have come to believe that tips are mandatory and along with that, many have come to the conclusion that tips must be at a certain amount level.

Yes, I believe that this is a cat that will never be put back in the bag.

You know those signs at the zoo??

DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS!

We should have something like that everywhere regarding tips.

PLEASE DO NOT TIP THE STAFF.
THEY ARE BEING WELL PAID, AND ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE SERVICE YOU HAVE PAID FOR.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS, AND HOPE YOU WILL COME AGAIN.

I know, I am dreaming!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
You know those signs at the zoo??

DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS!

We should have something like that everywhere regarding tips.

PLEASE DO NOT TIP THE STAFF.
THEY ARE BEING WELL PAID, AND ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE SERVICE YOU HAVE PAID FOR.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS, AND HOPE YOU WILL COME AGAIN.

I know, I am dreaming!

if more were dreaming the situation will be able to be reversed ...

I disagree with CHC
Tips are old fashioned bakshish, bribe etc.
European nations are better at eliminating it as they pay well for menial jobs
Not so in the rest of the world and so tips then rear their ugly heads on good or bad intensions

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Hunter54: It would be nice to know who these two outfitters are so we can avoid doing business with them in the future. Or, send me a PM.

I'd like to know too. I've been to both countires many times, and have never had this happen.

quote:

I disagree with CHC

Nothing wrong with that, the world would be boring if everyone agreed all the time on everything.

I just feel that Americans are responsible for getting things to the level they are.

My belief lies in the concept that tips are given AFTER THE FACT, bribes et al are given before hand to get favors done.

Tips are given, normally for services rendered, not services expected.

Bribes are for favors/services anticipated/desired.

Well! I just read all 9 pages of this thread. I read some absolute BS and some few posters, including Saeed, who understand the issue.

I know now what I am going to do on all future trips. I will tell the outfitter, at the beginning of the trip, that I am going to give him tip money for all his employees, to divide as he sees fit. AND, I will pay him when I get back home, by wire transfer. That solves a couple of problems -- carrying cash and deciding who gets how much. When I say goodbye to the PH I will tell him that I have given his tip to the outfitter. If the outfitter doesn't give some or all of the money to his staff, that is on him. So, now all I have to do is come up with one figure.

A lot of you guys are high-flyers but I think most people wondering about tips are not. In particular I'd like to address a situation that arose with me. My last trip was to RSA and I took 8 animals and all were on different properties! Our hunt lodge was on 3,000 acres and I only took nyala there. Other places were 500 - 1000 acres, except where I took eland was 12,000 acres. On each of these places a local guide/tracker was assigned and they did impressive work -- certainly more than my full time tracker did. I tipped them individually, but will not do so if that situation arises again. Instead, I will tell the PH that I expect him to pay these guys now, out of pocket, or later, after the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:

quote:

How do hunters from different countries tip?

Tipping is primarily based on US food service norms. I know for a fact that Europeans, Australians, Asians and consumers everywhere else don't tip the same as US for sit down food service.

Do non US hunters tip the same?

I can't speak for all non-US hunters, but my German friends do not tip as a rule. The Austrians and Swiss may tip but rarely, as for the others, it really comes own to a personal preference and how much drink one has consumed.

If one were to leave a small amount for someone, it would be far less than the amounts mentioned here. I think tipping is a great incentive, but it is not universally accepted. I know I have rarely received tips on guided hunts in Germany, though I have been tipped for providing tracking dog services to hunters.

No tipping in Australia. I am not 100% sure what my next tip will be on a safari.

I kind of tip minimally in America anymore. I won't tip at all for shitty service.

Though exceptional service will get you a big tip.

Well, many years ago tips were "suggested" at 10% of a meal in a restaurant.

Then it became 15%,

Then it got to 20%, and it is no longer a suggestion, but added to your bill, whether you like it or not.

I take exception to that.

The other day we went to a fancy restaurant, with a fancy OF LONDON added at the end of its name.

The food was good, but nothing exceptional.

But, despite the waiters and waitresses being polite, the service was extremely slow.

Some of us finished our meals, and others have not even been served yet!!

They had a 15% service charge.

I crossed that off the bill, and paid only for the food and drinks, and wrote a note that I am not paying for terrible service.

The manager met us at the door as we left, and he apologized.

I don't think I will be eating there again.

And having been on many safaris, in many countries, and seeing how hard the camp staff, trackers and even the game scouts work, I have no problem paying them a tip.

I think they deserve it.

Sometimes we start our day at 3 in the morning, and not get back until late at night.

Never heard a complaint from them.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, many years ago tips were "suggested" at 10% of a meal in a restaurant.

Then it became 15%,

Then it got to 20%, and it is no longer a suggestion, but added to your bill, whether you like it or not.

I take exception to that.

The other day we went to a fancy restaurant, with a fancy OF LONDON added at the end of its name.

The food was good, but nothing exceptional.

But, despite the waiters and waitresses being polite, the service was extremely slow.

Some of us finished our meals, and others have not even been served yet!!

They had a 15% service charge.

I crossed that off the bill, and paid only for the food and drinks, and wrote a note that I am not paying for terrible service.

The manager met us at the door as we left, and he apologized.

I don't think I will be eating there again.

And having been on many safaris, in many countries, and seeing how hard the camp staff, trackers and even the game scouts work, I have no problem paying them a tip.

I think they deserve it.

Sometimes we start our day at 3 in the morning, and not get back until late at night.

Never heard a complaint from them.

Saeed

Was this is Dubai?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, many years ago tips were "suggested" at 10% of a meal in a restaurant.

Then it became 15%,

Then it got to 20%, and it is no longer a suggestion, but added to your bill, whether you like it or not.

I take exception to that.

The other day we went to a fancy restaurant, with a fancy OF LONDON added at the end of its name.

The food was good, but nothing exceptional.

But, despite the waiters and waitresses being polite, the service was extremely slow.

Some of us finished our meals, and others have not even been served yet!!

They had a 15% service charge.

I crossed that off the bill, and paid only for the food and drinks, and wrote a note that I am not paying for terrible service.

The manager met us at the door as we left, and he apologized.

I don't think I will be eating there again.

And having been on many safaris, in many countries, and seeing how hard the camp staff, trackers and even the game scouts work, I have no problem paying them a tip.

I think they deserve it.

Sometimes we start our day at 3 in the morning, and not get back until late at night.

Never heard a complaint from them.

Saeed

Was this is Dubai?

Mike

Yes.

Milan,

If the safari crew got paid well by Western standards even the 1 percenters could not afford a safari. I've been in camps were there were 23 people on the staff. Can you imagine if they made even $5.00 an hour with these guys probably working at least 12 hours a day what that safari would cost? The wages for the staff alone not considering PH wages, supplies, vehicle maintenance etc would come to $1,380 per day.

Tip although not compulsory and nobody should be strong armed into paying a certain amount are a part of an African safari and I always just figure them into my total cost so I do know w hat my total bill will be. It's not rocket science.

Mark

All along I thought it was just me. I have had difficulty with an outfitter expecting more money for doing a good job after paying his requested fee, as I had expected the PH to do his best from the get go. I have no appreciation for getting leaned on for a job well done, as if I am to pay extra for the benefit of not being guided around what I'm hunting for. I'd much prefer to book with an outfit that just charges what they want to do their best job. Not many feel compelled to refund for poor performance.