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Jerry, You may have hit the nail on the head. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Timbavati, Are you indicating tips to be in local currency? South African Rands (ZAR), Zimbabwean Dollar (ZWD), Namibian Dollar (NAB), Tanzanian Shilling (TZS), Zambian Kwacha (ZMW), Botswana Pula (BWP), Mozambican Metical (MZN), You say indicate : Cook/kitchen $100/day Trackers $50/day Game scout $50/day PH $300/day Videographer $200/day I try to pay the camp staff tips with local currency. Your guide line is purty good for some local currency. I am thinking that in most countries the staff would be put off by your recommendations. Let's pick the Zimbabwe Dollar as an example using your tipping guidelines. $1 USD = $ 361.90 ZWD Cook/kitchen $100/day. For a 10 day safari, that would be close to $3 USD. I rounded up. Trackers $50/day. For a 10 day safari, that would be close to $1.50 USD, I would make it $2.00 as I do not take change along on my trips. Game scout $50/day. For a 10 day safari, that would be close to $1.50 USD, I would make it $2.00 as I do not take change along on my trips. PH $300/day. For a 10 day safari, that would be close to $10.00 USD. I rounded up. Videographer $200/day. For a 10 day safari, that would be close to $6.00 USD. I rounded up. Yup, I think your tip guide lines is doable. I would like to thank you for your guidance. Seeing as my next adventure will be to either Zimbabwe or Zambia I would have to give your tipping guideline some though. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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Milo, I do think you should tip the Government game scout if he is pitching in and a being a big help which they can be but are not always. I don't think $50 a day is reasonable though. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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A lot of things that go on in other countries that would be illegal in the US and legal in the country that it occurs. You go by the laws of the country you are in unless the US laws specifically apply to your behavior there as well. You are not going to get into trouble with the US government for expediting your luggage clearance via a "tip" at Or Tambo. | |||
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Let us not forget that this "tipping" business started in the US, and is getting worse! I understand that service people expect it, and if you do not give enough, in some places you are actually haggled! Most game scouts are productive members of the safari team - in fact, in all my hunts, May be one or two that stand out to be useless. The rest have been extremely helpful in every aspect of the hunt. And they deserve a tip. I leave the amount to my professional hunter, as he is the one I give the money to. It is his responsibility to decide who to tip and how much. I don't ask any details. It is basically non of my business, as long as everyone does the job they are supposed to do. And with the people I have hunted with, I feel whatever I pay as a tip is very well worth it. Hunting in South Africa once, we were in a lodge that put any 5-star hotel in the West to shame. The food was fantastic and the service was the same. We were there a few days and were moving to another location. I asked my PH what he recommended I leave as a tip. He said "whatever you feel like giving" I mentioned a figure, as we were a group of about 20. He said that was far too much, and he cut it in half. | |||
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Ethics are cultural. If you are going to apply US ethics to an African outfitter none of them will pass. You can't run a business in Africa without meeting current expectations. In one country we had a local "expeditor" on payroll. He knew how much and to whom payments needed to be made for permits etc.. It was also very formalized the guy's boss got a cut from everyone working under him and paid a cut to the guy above him all the way to the minister. It was the way they supplemented civil service pay. So, applying US ethics in developing countries is naïve. BTW, it happens here as well except we call it campaign contributions to PACs etc.. | |||
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You are completely off your rocker! | |||
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What a load of bloody bullshit! There are American outfitters working in Africa I would not touch with a barge pole, because they are nothing but crooks. And there are African outfitters I would trust without any question. | |||
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Bribes are usually paid before and not after.  As Mark said, if the GS jumps into the thick of it and breaks sweat with the rest of the crew there is no reason why he shouldn't be rewarded for his efforts which are not part of his duties. For those who are unsure of the duties of a Game Scout, the first to remember is that he is in fact a Wildlife Officer who officiates the hunt as an observer and ensures fair play. By law he is the one required to make entries into the GHP immediately after an animal is taken/wounded or lost and to close/sign off the permit at the end of the hunt. So he is therefore quite an important person in the group and you may not be out hunting without his presence on the vehicle. If he decides to sit under a tree and scratch his nuts while others break their backs, that's his privilege and also a very good reason why he shouldn't be shown any gratitude by the client at the end of the hunt. A cooperative Game Scout on the other hand usually ends up with a token of gratitude ranging $200/$300 at the end of a 21 day hunt. The above is related to hunting in TZ. | |||
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I think you misunderstood my main point. I was not talking about trust in regards to the outfitters themselves but the way business is done in various countries where one has to pay "expediting fees" to local officials to get any business done. US law frowns on that and most companies get around it by having a local partner that takes care of all the permitting, licensing etc.. | |||
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True. US laws don’t allow bribes. But I personally know major American business personnel go to foreign countries with hands stretched out - if you wish to do business with them. There are crooks in every country. Defining honesty by country or race is totally wrong! | |||
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True. All I was trying to point out was trying to apply US laws etc. to the way business is done in some countries is the wrong way of doing it. I feel that the government/company official is more dishonest in the US when he asks for an expensive laptop, printer etc. for "project management" than an official in a developing country where expediting fees are built in to the salary structure and is expected from everyone. If you felt offended by my comments, I apologize as that was not my intent. I used the word "ethics" only because it was mentioned in the post I was replying to. | |||
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Well said ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I agree 100% If he’s a crook, he likely will not be in business long. Honesty, I would hope, will sustain the business. Besides, I do not want to handing out “tips” to every tracker, chef, driver, maid, game scout, .......etc. It is uncomfortable and odd in my opinion. If it’s good service, tip accordingly. | |||
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Is there a fine line???? Tipping appears to have been a practice started in the USA and most likely was a bribe, backhander or whatever you want to call it. The term tipping is probably just a cover for the original term and intention. Some say tipping is just something extra for a good service although for some reason this doesn't apply across the board. The surgeon or oncologist who saves your life through surgery or cancer therapy doesn't attract a tip do they? Many a tip is used to secure a preferential treatment in the future. A member of this forum admitted this (possibly somewhere earlier in this very thread) as the reason he tips at his favourite eating establishment so he gets a better table and service when he next visits. That's a backhander and that in my culture sucks and that's what pisses most people outside of USA off most about the tipping culture, more so when those from the USA carry the practice into other countries and cultures. Funnily enough I see many of you hunters from the USA complaining about the tipping culture in Africa because it hits you, more than other nationalities, in the pocket and you are singled out for the big tips. That does suck but gee whiz take responsibility for introducing the damn practice and stop the practice in your own country if you don't like it in others. More pointed don't fucking continue to bring it to mine as you have. | |||
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The typical safari camp worker makes on average R$3,000 a month or $200 USD a month and many are not paid for the full year. Game guards are paid a little more and Community Master Hunters make around R$6,000 or $400 USD a month. So when someone suggests that a tip of $20, or $30 or $50 a day is an acceptable tip for a camp worker, tips are basically generating 5 to 7 times the worker's average monthly wage. BTW - Outfitters are quite happy that American clients are willing to pay all the staff salaries for their workers. Most other international hunters pay fukall to the operator and staff in the way of tips. So it is up to Americans to foot the bill because they can be easily shamed into doing so. At the end of the day you should pay what you are comfortable paying and should not feel obligated or forced to do so. Nothing is fine as well - the PH will still happily take your money next year. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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“Most other international hunters pay fukall to the operator and staff in the way of tips. So it is up to Americans to foot the bill because they can be easily shamed into doing so.” Another statement that is categorically wrong! Just because some Europeans, who are rightly brought up in a non tipping society refuse to tip. Does not mean others do not. | |||
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I don't have the time or the inclination to read all the comments here and once every year or so I comment as it really is such a contentious issue and should not be as it is totally personal! From an operators and a professional hunters perspective I can say this and I would like to think it would apply for the vast majority of us 1/ IF and I say "IF" I am asked for a tip recommendation I make it abundantly clear that it is optional and based on performance. 2/ My recommendation for say a particular hunt would be exactly the same to a mutimillionair as to a fellow that has saved up all his life. Likewise it will be the same to an American as it would be to a German or a Zimbabwean. To say one nation would be asked to tip more is simple not true!! 3/ If a client does not tip as he is well entitled to- Ph and staff will still thank him with a smile and he will STILL GET THE SAME EXCELLENT treatment if he returned the following year. Simply put "Tip if you want to , Tip alot or tip a little or nothing" - IT IS YOUR PREROGATIVE | |||
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity Here's a bit of knowledge for those that insist it is an American invention. I find it hysterical the countries that bash Americans for tipping are some of the worst to constantly remind that "tipping is not included". Give from the heart if you think it is deserved or don't give because service is bad or "we don't do that in our country (unless we are working with foreigners) Safe travels | |||
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Tip, originally was meant as a small token. In America they have made it almost compulsory. It grew from a small amount to a specific percentage. Which I understand is growing too. 5%, then 10%, then 15% and apparently now they want 20 or even 25%. About time establishments start paying a decent wage instead! | |||
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Since you chose to quote me - In the end, I don't care if you choose to tip, give the guy a blowjob or shoot him in the head. Have a great day. | |||
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Saeed - what part of "most" did you miss? I was not making a blanket/absolute statement. "Most" European hunters pay very little in tips if at all. It is a cultural thing after all. Americans however feel obligated which is what "many" operators depend on and "some" blatantly encourage. For the record, I feel confident you routinely gift everyone with new Cruiser Double Cabs and Cessna Caravans.  ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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No. That was a long time ago. Now I give them Rolls Royces and Gulfstrem jets  | |||
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Some funny comments Give a little Another step to heaven or hell ... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Milo, On my trip to Zimbabwe in 2017 our Govt. game scout was a huge part of the team. He knew the area well, eyes like an eagle, great judge of trophy quality, but most of all a very personable guy. Always there willing to get his hands dirty, or crack a joke. We even gave him and the trackers an afternoon off while we went for a drive and had a few beers (no hunting). We could not keep him or the trackers out of the truck, they all wanted to come instead of staying at camp relaxing. We tipped him well and if I ever hunt that area again I would insist he was our scout. John P.S. I have even tipped the camp manager on both trips to Zimbabwe and will continue to do so, even though I have been told it's not normally done. In fact in 2017 the camp manager told me it was the first time anyone had given him a tip, and was quite taken aback. He had earned that tip, and so had everyone else in camp.On our one and only trip to South Africa (I will never hunt there again) I left much smaller tips for some and much larger ones for others that went above and beyond.The PH was pissed at my wife and I because we got along with the tracker (Steven) so well. I still keep in touch with Steven every week and saw he and his family last year on our stopover in Johannesburg. Tipping is a choice, do what you feel is right. | |||
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With the minimum wage laws that have been passed I have reduced considerably the amounts I tip, or do not at all. There still is the percentages listed, up to 25% on the bills, which I ignore. Another little trick is the service charge many places add, without the customer's knowledge. All I can say is pay attention! If someone is going to pressure me for a tip, then I'll respond accordingly and give them nothing. | |||
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I have posted on this subject several times in the past. Pay a living minimum wage. If you are a civilized society that values human rights then why do you NOT pay a living wage? In NZ the minimum wage is around $18.75 / hour = US$13 and hour This is very base wage. My son works 10 to 15 hours a week in the Supermarket and is 17 years old & in final year of high school. He get around $19 / hour. Right now I have a visitor whom I will drop off at the airport in an hour. He tells me that current US tipping as gone as high as 30% in some establishments / Industries! My stomach churns and my blood pressure rises every time I read this post. The other MAJOR issue that people fail to link up here is the standard of living that outfitter expect. It appears that some African outfitter actually want / expect US standard of living for themselves while they pay their staff local wages! Go figure.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I used to always laugh to myself when a PH said to me: "Give me all of the tips and I will distribute them after you have left. I can't trust the staff with their own tips." I only fell for that con job one time. After that, I placed any and all well earned tips in individual, sealed envelopes with specific names on them, and handed them out in person. If you want a tip for outstanding service with me, then you will earn it first. No handouts just because someone tells me what they believe I have to give out. Screw that idea and them both. A tip is for outstanding service, not for what normally would be expected as part of the job's daily, ongoing requirements. | |||
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Dude you might want to dial it back a little, have you seen the price of oil lately???  ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I think it all boils down to the professional hunter you hunt with. Most of our camp staff have been there for years, and one is left in no doubt that they are genuinely happy to see you back. That tells me that they must have gotten a very good tip the previous year, and the PH did not take it for himself. As far as I am concerned, everyone works so hard in our camp, one never feels one is over tipping them. Handing the tips out yourself has one advantage though - for the PH. If a hunter hunts there and leaves no tip, the staff assume whatever tip was given has all been taken by the PH. They do not imagine the client not leaving anything for them. | |||
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Saeed: Not all PHs are as honest as the Vincents. I have been given the tip 'shake down' by well known and not so well known PHs in both Zimbabwe and South Africa. After my first experience stated above, I decided to give any tips directly to those that deserved it-each man/woman with their own white envelope. It has worked for me for the last 18 years. I then personally know that the tip has been received by someone deserving of it. I was told in the first instance that if I gave it directly to them, they would blow it on a drunken binge in town and that it would be best for the PH, in his ultimate wisdom, to administer the tip to them over time to ensure that they didn't binge out on it. BS in my opinion. Remember the old adage: Out of sight, out of mind. | |||
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Very sad to hear this. My personal experience has been very good - may be I have been lucky who I dealt with. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting TIPS! The Subject Keeps Coming Up Frequently, Please Help.
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