Gifting with out a permeate export permit has been illegal for many years

I have done the emails and the NRA notification.
I understand the issue.
I will call my Senators and Congressmen to follow up, but would someone post a good/brief explaination to use.
Some of us are less gifted when it comes to this stuff.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Dulcinea:
I have done the emails and the NRA notification.
I understand the issue.
I will call my Senators and Congressmen to follow up, but would someone post a good/brief explaination to use.
Some of us are less gifted when it comes to this stuff.

Keith

Keith you are close (I am in Hanover PA) & suspect you have Scott Perry as your rep in Congress. I have spoken to his office so they should be aware of the issue but please call so they know I am not the only person in his district with a problem. York office 717-600-1919

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
You guys voted for the RETARD...

Sorry people... Just pissed off when I wrote that...

I actually know damn well that nobody who visits this site would have voted for that clown.

Just the asshole pisses me off like you cannot believe... even though I'm north of the 49th. I used to be able to buy simple gun components from Brownells, stocks from MacMillans etc...
Can't do any of that now, cuz the Gun Nazi's in Washington 'Democratic' (democratic is laughable!!) party put the kybosh on all that.

Yet they think it's okay to supply guns to Mexican drug cartels, and import illegal aliens (or refuse to deport them... same difference).

Sadly, the U.S. political system has never been so messed up and it looks like it might never ever improve!

The Republicans are a bunch of FOOLS, more interested in appearances and religious crap, than sensible policy.
In fact the Republicans are so inept that the world has to suffer through 2 terms!! of 'Dumbo'!!

Religion has ZERO place in Gov't! Just ask the Founding Fathers, who knew the importance of Separation of State and Religious Freedom.

If the Founding Fathers of the U.S. Constitution could somehow climb into the De Lorean, and come to Washington, they would clear out the serpents, that masquerade as politicians in U.S. Gov't.

Both parties.



Sorry for the rant... and sorry for the good gun owners of the U.S.A.



Back to topic.

Demonical,

I think you hit the nail on the head!

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
You guys voted for the RETARD...

Sorry people... Just pissed off when I wrote that...

I actually know damn well that nobody who visits this site would have voted for that clown.

Just the asshole pisses me off like you cannot believe... even though I'm north of the 49th. I used to be able to buy simple gun components from Brownells, stocks from MacMillans etc...
Can't do any of that now, cuz the Gun Nazi's in Washington 'Democratic' (democratic is laughable!!) party put the kybosh on all that.

Yet they think it's okay to supply guns to Mexican drug cartels, and import illegal aliens (or refuse to deport them... same difference).

Sadly, the U.S. political system has never been so messed up and it looks like it might never ever improve!

The Republicans are a bunch of FOOLS, more interested in appearances and religious crap, than sensible policy.
In fact the Republicans are so inept that the world has to suffer through 2 terms!! of 'Dumbo'!!

Religion has ZERO place in Gov't! Just ask the Founding Fathers, who knew the importance of Separation of State and Religious Freedom.

If the Founding Fathers of the U.S. Constitution could somehow climb into the De Lorean, and come to Washington, they would clear out the serpents, that masquerade as politicians in U.S. Gov't.

Both parties.



Sorry for the rant... and sorry for the good gun owners of the U.S.A.



Back to topic.

Dulcinea:

Here is what I was sending out today. It is NOT short and it reflects my personal calls and conversations with people and agencies. If you can cut/paste and edit in MS Word or something else to take my first person info out you're welcome to uses as your baseline. I included a personalized entry paragraph and conclusion for each person I sent it to. A couple of Congrassrats .gov email pages wouldn't hold all of it and I had to call and contact a staffer directly and email it to them in *.pdf format. But as of this evening I know nearly two dozen Reps and Senators and various committees and caucuses have gotten it.

------ cut line ---------------

Here is a link to ICE web site that started this: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

If you read down through the “Overveiw” tab section, about half-way down, it refers to the “International Traffic in Arms Regulation” (ITAR) as well as several other sources.

To summarize, this is a new requirement wherein a private citizen is going to be required to enter personal information into a Federal database to include the details of personally own firearms he/she is planning to take out of the US to a foreign country either for sport hunting or competitive shooting. If the person is taking less than three firearms and less than 1000 rounds of loaded ammunition they still have to go through the entire process starting with this questionnaire: https://www.ice.gov/exec/ice-gov/cpiquiz.htm just to obtain a “license exemption”.

Once you complete the questions: Q-1 yes, Q-2 top three checked, Q-3 top two checked, Q-4 rifle, pistol, or ammunition selected, you end up on a web page that says, “An Export License Is Not Required”. But, if also says the you are still required to obtain a “license exemption”. You are directed to this page: http://aesdirect.census.gov/ that seems to be “hosted” by the U.S. Census Bureau.

I did successfully create an account on the site, but instead of and IRS issued EIN number (I don’t have or own a business nor a Dunn & Bradstreet listing) I used my Social Security number. I successfully completed the required 30-question “test” and worked through entering my information in “draft” form, but did NOT submit it.

Via others posting on the AR website, it was pointed out the use of a SS# is prohibited. I contacted the AESDirect Technical Support department at 877-715-4433, worked through the menu prompts. When I finally got through to a person, I explained that I had mistakenly used my SS and not an EIN and the account was deleted.

I asked the Tech Support person why an EIN was required and was directed to contact the AESDirect at 800-549-0595, worked through some menus and a support person who ended up transferring me to a Department Supervisor (name was either Daniel or Douglas I don’t remember).

Here is potential snag #1. IRS Pub EIN

“Purpose of an Employer Identification Number
Employer Identification Numbers are issued for the purpose of tax administration and are not intended for participation in any other activities (e.g., tax lien auction or sales, lotteries, etc.)”

Per a phone call I had to the IRS, after several attempts and several HOURS on hold, the IRS Agent I spoke to (didn’t get a name or badge #) specifically said the above info is correct. I described for her where the requirement was coming from and for the basic purpose, obtaining a temporary export permit, and she restated the same info above.

I tried to explain this to the AESDirect Supervisor and he said he didn’t care. Basically, users are required to obtain and use an EIN or a DUNS – period. He had no concept of the implications of getting an EIN for a “non tax related activity”. I tried to explain the connection, the IRS conversation I had and also explain the IRS requirement that ALL holders of an EIN are also required to file a IRS Form 1040 c or c-ez even if you did do any business activity. One member on the AR website said he contacted his accountant who confirmed this requirement.

Here is the IRS Guidance: IRS Pub If you read down the page it states pretty clearly that if you get an EIN you are required to file a 1040 c or cz. As I understand it, not filing or continuing to carry an EIN could possibly put you in violation of IRS tax code and open the person up to audits/penalties/prosecution. During the course of this what happens if the IRS finds out the individual obtained the EIN for a “non-tax related activity”?

He directed me to call AESDirect at 800 549 0595, menu Option 3, for Regulatory Questions. I talked to a lady named Heather. I specifically asked her about the EIN requirement. She basically related the same information I received from the Support Section Supervisor. I asked her if she understood the implications of obtaining an EIN for a non-tax related activity. She said she didn’t but that “they have been requiring the use of EIN or DUNS numbers for years. The problem with this is, up to this point the only users who have been using the AESDirect website have been commercial enterprises, licensed customs brokers, licensed freight forwarders etc.

Heather also said they were “working on getting the IRS to change the wording on their web site. She also said that the Census Bureau does not exchange information with the IRS which was directly contradictory from the info I received from the Department Supervisor who claimed they did have authority to exchange information across government agency lines.

Next jewel I asked Heather was “is it legal for someone who isn’t a licensed customs broker or freight forwarder, like a travel agent, or just a private person to open an account in AESDirect and enter other peoples firearm information and give them an ITN.” She said, “YES”, anyone can open an AESDirect account and enter someone else’s information but, the person opening the account and has to use an EIN to open the account an have a signed “letter of authorization” or power of attorney AND THE OTHER PERSON’S EIN. The other person’s SS# is NOT AUTHORIZED. In fact, no SS# are permitted in AESDirect – period.

This has not all been bad. I did have a very good face to face meeting with the US Customs Office at the Tampa Int. Airport yesterday. As others here have reported, they had not heard of this “new” requirement – ITN etc. All three of the agents were very friendly and helpful, just not up on the current situation. The last officer I spoke to was VERY interested in getting this sorted out. Both she and her husband are avid gun enthusiasts/hunters and even did a hunting trip to Zimbabwe a couple of years ago and are looking to go back to Africa again!!! She took my name and phone number and promised she would definitely dig into this and get back to me.
The end result of the AESDirect system is the traveler ends up with an “International Travel Number” (ITN). According to the ICE/C&BP instructions, the traveler is REQUIRED to give this ITN to the airline agent at the time of check-in, the TSA agent when you present the rifle case for the special scanning/screening and to a C&BP agent. The traveler is also to provide the ITN to the C&PB when clearing their firearms back into the US at their initial Port of Entry – Atlanta, JFK, Dulles etc. and also “possibly” when collecting their rifle cases at the final destination/home airport.

There also seems to be a problem with the software in that it can’t generate any kind of actual document/certificate for the traveler to present when required. In the case of the gentleman who obtained the ITN via the Anchorage C&PB office, all they could provide him was a “little yellow sticky note” with the INT hand written on it and they didn’t ask for or require an EIN from him – just his passport, copy of his previously issued 4457, airline ticket and the firearms.

When I left the C&BP office at the Tampa Int airport Thursday afternoon, I stopped at the airport terminal. Since we are flying on Delta for this years trip, I stopped by the Delta check-in desk and wait till all flying passengers had checked in and then asked the Delta agent if she was aware of any kind of a new up-coming requirement for passengers traveling with firearms providing her with an International Travel Number. She said no. I asked her if there were any “fields” on her computer screen labeled INT for entering passenger check-in information – no. Thanked her for her time and walked over the TSA area where we take our rifle cases after checking in.

I asked the TSA agent if he was aware of travelers with firearms having to give them an ITN when checking firearms in – no. I said do you guys have any kind of computer system here you can use to access a database containing outbound cargo shipments that have a Customs clearance? – no. I asked them if were I could find a C&BP officer here in the terminal. The said the only time C&BP are normally in the passenger terminal is when an International flight is arriving. I was already aware there is a C&BP office, manned by one person, at the baggage collection area who deals exclusively with Global Entry/Trusted Traveler.

Walked down to the C&BP office mentioned above and asked the agent if he was aware of this new ITN requirement – no.

Now this was all at an International airport. Imagine the traveling hunter who starts their trip from a smaller regional or local airport, even IF they get an ITN. The airline agent doesn’t know about the ITN requirement and even if they do they have no place to enter the number. Small, non-International airports don’t have any C&BP presence at all and TSA is even less likely to have knowledge/awareness of the ITN requirement – may only have half a dozen gun cases a year. So, before the traveler gets on the plan they have already potentially violated Federal law four times. Once with the IRS buy getting an EIN for a “non-tax related purpose” and three times with ICE just checking in!


I need to bring the 4457 process into this discussion. Under the current process, if a hunter can’t get a 4457 before getting on his very first flight, they can check the rifle case to the first major airport (Atlanta, JFK etc) pull the case and go to a C&BP office and get the 4457 issued on the spot and then re-check the case to their destination. This same thing CANNOT be done with AESDirect. The AESDirect system requires information entry and ITN issue a MINIMUM OF 8 HOURS PRIOR TO TRAVEL. So, this would mean the probability of requiring and incurring the expense and travel delay of an additional overnight stay at the traveler’s primary “port of departure”. Returning from overseas could generate an additional set of problems that I don’t have answers for.

First, what happens if the returning hunter loses the “little yellow sticky” with the ITN on it in the bush and can’t produce it as required or demanded by the C&BP when clearing the firearms back in. Will C&PB, as indicated in their warnings, confiscate the person’s potentially very expensive or very cherished or family heirloom firearms? Will they be arrested and prosecuted? What happens if the traveler couldn’t or didn’t give the ITN to the ticketing agent, C&PB or TSA at original check-in and there is some “hidden” requirement that the ITN has to be “activated” in the computer system at the time of actual departure – flights change once in awhile. The traveler returns, has their “little yellow sticky note” with an ITN on it BUT it was not “activated” when they departed? Confiscation, arrest, prosecution again? What if the “little yellow sticky note” with the ITN on it “isn’t good enough” for some hard….nosed C&BP, TSA or ticketing agent. Confiscation, arrest, prosecution again? Hell, for that matter am I potentially opening myself up for "special attention" via the IRS or some other alphabet soup letter government agency just for highlighting these issues on a public internet website or via email?


Here are my concerns.

1. As a private person, not involved in the arms/ammunition export business, I am going to be required to provide my personal information and address as well as my personally owned firearm information into a Federally maintained data base – basically federally register my personal firearms.

2. How is there a tax related connection to an EIN being requested and utilized for the sole purpose of obtaining an approval to temporarily export personally and legally owned firearms for a purely recreational/vacation/competitive shooting activity and is this putting us in potential risk of extra scrutiny or prosecution from the IRS by inappropriately obtaining or use of an EIN and and/or tax form filling requirements?

3. Here is where this really gets troubling. Let's "presume" we end up having to comply with obtaining an EIN. That EIN is directly tied to our SS#. Now we use that EIN to comply with the temp export permit requirement. Contained in the temp export permit info is our names, addresses, dates of departure, airline, serial number of each firearm and it's value. It is only three firearm on any given trip, next trip could be three different and the next trip three more different. Over time the Feds build up a database record of what you own and where you live.

3a. IF that info is in fact shared with IRS and they happen to have someway to cross that info against your tax records and they even SUSPECT you are "living above your means" as indicated from your tax records...do you think that could trigger any bells? Is it also possible they could hold the fact that we obtained an EIN for an unauthorized purpose over our heads etc?

3b. And what if you don't file an annual 1040c under that EIN and it goes dormant or is automatically deleted at a period of time and is in fact no longer valid. You then try to use an invalid EIN...

4. It was explained to me by AESDirect personnel, the purpose of the “new rules” was to ensure that sporting firearms being taken out of the US actually come back to the US. If that is the case, then why does the AESDirect export document creation screen only ask for basic export info – date of departure, method, airline and country of temp import. What is DOESN’T ask for is departure flight number, or anything about expected date, method, airline, flight number etc of return.

5. While this is the last concern it is my greatest. It seems they are using the UN Treating on International Arms Trafficking as the basis for this new requirement. Last time I checked, the US Senate has NOT approved this UN Treaty and it is being used as a back-door method of Federal Firearms Registration of US citizen’s private, legally owned firearms and ammunition similar to the recent ATF attempt to ban the 5.56 M855 “Green Tip” ammunition.

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts. It seems to me this entire process was supposedly put in place to stop illegal arms trafficking, that is already ILLEGAL. It’s highly unlikely military weapons grade arms dealers are shipping hunting style single-shot, bolt action, lever action or double rifles and shotguns out of the US 2-3 at a time when organized terrorist can purchase AK 47s for less than $100 a piece all day long pretty much anywhere overseas. This entire regulation was put into place to solve a problem that didn’t exist in the legal shooting sports activities.

My preference would be for the entire system to be scrapped. But, if for some reason there is no way to completely stop this requirement perhaps a possible solution to this is to have the AESDirect program modified to accept an individual’s passport number when creating the account. If someone applies for and opens an AESDirect account using a passport number their actions, activities and form entries would be limited to the three firearm limit and only to obtain the “license exemption”.

Demon:

Not sure exactly where you stand. Please clarify.

m3taco= Many thanks for your continuing service to our country!

This is another tyrannical move by a orrupt administration!

My e-mails have been sent and hard copy letters will follow tomorrow! I am President of an 800 member gun club in the Houston area and I will urge all members strongly to oppose this act and to write their reps.


.

So, after all the discussion, what is the solution in simple terms?

I'm about to book my flights and will ask the same question of Steve at Travel With Guns. He solves these sorts of problems.

Well, if you think about it, the 4457 forms have been entered into computers for several years with passport number, serial numbers, make/model/caliber, etc. so the information of who owns what guns has been gathered for years. I'm surprised that the NRA didn't jump all over this years earlier.

As far as the IRS and any other government agencies is anyone naïve enough to think that their passport number isn't linked across all these databases?!! Considering the linkups between federal and state databases it wouldn't be a far stretch for local jurisdictions to obtain information off the 4457 forms. Backdoor registration at the local level.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
So, after all the discussion, what is the solution in simple terms ?

I'm about to book my flights and will ask the same question of Steve at Travel With Guns . He solves these sorts of problems.

You answered your own question, unless you want to do it yourself then I recommend the path I took because the provided websites will never work.



Cheers
Jim

Steve Turner, Travel With Guns, has done all my travel arrangements for about 20 years now. I started with him when he was with Gracy Travel. In all those years he has done a marvelous job with all my arrangements. This ITN Mumber is no exception. I called Steve this morning. He took some basic information and he had most of what was needed as he had it on file doing my travel arrangements for my upcoming safari in Namibia. In about an hour or so I had my ITN number and it is an e-mail with the e-mail address of the agency who issues the ITN Number. While not an "official" form like the 4457 at least it has a thread of official issue and not a "sticky note". If Steve does your travel, I encourage you to contact him quickly if your are traveling real soon. Anyway, a helleva load off my mind.

Gracias,
Hoot

m3taco,

Your original post was what I emailed to the senators.

What I am looking for would be well said talking points for a first contact by phone. I do understand you have to be able to make your point in brief at the beginning of a conversation.
I suspect others would welcome such talking points also.

Ken, I will call this evening.

Keith

HOOT-

I agree, Steve does an EXCELLENT job....but your job is still ahead when you arrive at your departure airport.

At SeaTac, where I depart from for International flights, Customs is out at the S-Gates, INSIDE SECURITY....so NO Guns past security!!

So NOW WHAT....is Customs going to post an Agent say at the TSA stand to handle this new debacle....I wonder??

Otherwise I would have to go to the North end of the airport at Cargo and go to the Customs office BEFORE entering the Terminal.

So now What, you have complied with a VERY RIDULUCLOUS Regulation, what have we done??....we still must FIGHT!! This is not over yet until it is withdrawn....it has NO USEFUL PURPOSE.

Admittedly, those leaving this month must attempt to run the gauntlet....WE MUST FIGHT!!

Have a Great Trip and Excellent Hunt!!

Cheers,

For the adventurous ones who want to establish their own personal AES account, but have lingering doubts about the whole EIN "monkey-business," here is something you may want to take a look at if you are ready to apply for your "sole proprietor" EIN:

http://simplifiedtradesolution...-ein-for-aes-filing/

Whew!

Got out letters to my two Senators and Congressman this morning to follow the e-mails last night! I sent letters to both local offices and DC offices.

I also found this and sent an e-mail to each name and the main office in DC

http://www.sportsmenslink.org/contact

Did the e-mail from the NRA link Wendell put up also!

What else?


.

Folks,

I spoke to Christy with Gracy Travel yesterday and today. She really has been on top of this dilemma. It seems that the US Customs folks she has spoken to have as of yet rec'd no policy on how to handle this and are proceeding as usual until they do. Further investigation has given her some disturbing information. One thing she was told by ICE was that you would need to have your guns checked by Customs at least 8 hours before your flight. This means if you depart from a town without a Customs office you'd need in most cases arrive at your international departure city a day early. How inconvenient would that be? She told me once this is instituted if you ALREADY have an EIN because you have a legitimate business she can do the rest for you via Coppersmith. The question then is if you apply for the EIN that you need to get the ITN in order to get the permit and don't really have a business is the IRS going to be up your butt. It might appear you are trying to create a business for some illegal purpose. Also do not try to use your SSN in place of the EIN as when you check in with Customs you will not be in the computer.

Customs told her today that there are meeting with the involved parties this week to try and streamline the process. Also she was told the instituting of this policy will probably be delayed until May which is the only bright spot I can see so far.

Mark

Step one done!! Of course I didn't expect any issues in Anchorage since I was heading to Seattle from here and not an international departure. It was business as usual. A pleasant TSA guy swabbed the outside of my Tuffpak and didn't ask for the key to open it.

Alaska Air checked Joyce's bags through to Dubai and mine to Seattle at my request because I know Emirates will need to check serial numbers per their policy and form.

More later if I have time in Seattle.

Cheers
Jim

Good luck Frostbite I am going from SF to Dubai to Harare in Late May On Emirates love to hear about your experiences with the gun situation . Also will be in Homer in July to do some Halibut fishing

JTEX - Great link on the step-by-step process of obtaining an EIN. Makes it look pretty simple. Please don't take the follow comment in a negative way. While it does go through the steps of doing it very clearly, the website itself is not from a .gov site.

Second, the info it provides regarding the connection/use of an EIN for non-tax reporting purposes runs counter to the info in the link I posted earlier directly to the IRS guidance.

Lastly, it doesn't address the question of IF you are required to file a 1040c - even if done just to deactivate/close the EIN per the second IRS Publication link I posted after that one.

Your link info is still great info, don't get me wrong. Me personally, if I'm not pushed up a very near departure date I'd hold off a while to see what gets sorted out.

Mark - Good info/cross-check for what I've dug-up.

General Opinion - If this whole thing ends up being "delayed" for a couple of months, that is only a partial win in my book. A real win is getting it STOPPED COMPLETELY.

To all those getting active - keep it up. While the NRA, DSC, SCI etc are vary strong advocates for us, I think we owe it to ourselves and the rights and freedoms we enjoy and the protections we are SUPPOSED to have under the U.S. Constitution and our Bill of Rights, we need to make D.C. aware the even us little guys are PO'd (politely) about this. That the outrage is not just from the large lobby groups but reinforced but the grassroots electorate as well.

We have our fingers ( and toes) crossed for ya' Frostbit!


.

Still waiting to hear from Fred at TWG regarding my departure on Sunday. I will attempt to post whatever happens in hope it will assist those who leave later.

I hope our canaries are still singing prettily once they arrive in Dubai!

After reading almost every submission of this thread I can honestly say I am surprised not one senator or congressman of either party apparently knew anything about these new requirements and shared it with constituents.

I hate to think which amendments future presidents will attack and undermine for political gain or personal belief.

Matt

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:
Well, if you think about it, the 4457 forms have been entered into computers for several years with passport number, serial numbers, make/model/caliber, etc. so the information of who owns what guns has been gathered for years. I'm surprised that the NRA didn't jump all over this years earlier.

As far as the IRS and any other government agencies is anyone naïve enough to think that their passport number isn't linked across all these databases?!! Considering the linkups between federal and state databases it wouldn't be a far stretch for local jurisdictions to obtain information off the 4457 forms. Backdoor registration at the local level.

I have never had a customs agent enter any data from the guns I have had put on a 4457! I filled the 4457 out the CA checked that the info was correct for the gun and signed it is all that happened.

465H&H

Since I have an EIN (self employed), I created an AES account. Here's an email I sent to the Customs agent yesterday. This was after speaking with him by phone. He has made every effort to be helpful. That was the first he had heard of it. He promised a return call by tomorrow after following up. Here's my email:

Thank you so much for your help with this. It's very confusing to say the least. From what I've read, many customs offices are still unaware of this, although some have said it might be required after April 3. (We depart before that, but return after that date). The process goes something like this:

Questions to determine if an exemption might apply are here:

https://www.ice.gov/exec/ice-gov/cpiquiz.htm

For someone taking a hunting arm and a small amount of ammo, it's indicated that an exemption likely applies. The user is instructed as follows:


With less than three firearms or 1,000 rounds of ammunition there is a license exemption available.

Anyone who falls into this category MUST file the electronic export information in AESDirect.

Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect.

Additional information can be found at the U.S. Department of State's Directorate of Defense Trade Controls' website.


The AESDirect link sends the user here:

http://aesdirect.census.gov


The License Exemption link directs the user to the following:

Title 22: Foreign Relations,
PART 123—LICENSES FOR THE EXPORT AND TEMPORARY IMPORT OF DEFENSE ARTICLES

Section §123.17c of the Federal code states the requirements (Attached).

See:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/te...3.60.0.32.17&idno=22


The ICE FAQ page provides more instructions:

https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

In particular, it states:

"Export regulations require that prior to traveling outside the United States with firearms and/or ammunition all departing persons must obtain a valid and appropriate DDTC or BIS export license or qualify for a valid DDTC license exemption under 22 C.F.R. 123.17 - 123.18 or a valid BIS license exception under 15 C.F.R. 740.14(e)."


So, using the AESDirect site, I was able to create an account, and pass a 30 question test to activate the account, here:

http://aesdirect.census.gov

... then, I tried to create a "shipment," which seems to be a required step to claim the license exemption. I can make progress on completing the form, but for the rifles (and also for the ammo), there are two possible codes that could apply, and I don't know which one to enter. They are found in Section XIX Chapter 93 of the Classification of Exports. I've attached that. The potential codes that might apply to me are highlighted in yellow.


So that's where I'm stuck!

Thanks so much,
Jeff Davis

FROM SCI


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Member Alert! New Requirements for Traveling with Firearms Outside U.S.

Posted by firstforwildlife on March 23, 2015 · 1 Comment

firstforhuntershunteronridge1Safari Club International has received information about changes in the requirements for hunters who wish to export/bring their firearms and ammunition with them when they travel to hunt outside the United States. SCI has been researching these new requirements in order to understand exactly why these changes are going into effect and what will be required of our members who wish to travel with their firearms and ammunition to hunt in other countries. A great deal of confusion still remains, but we are attempting to present members with some of the questions being raised and the answers we have discovered so far. Please note that the information below is not intended to serve as legal advice. Before traveling, SCI members are advised to consult directly with U.S. Customs and Border Protection and/or their own legal counsel:

Q: What is now required of a hunter who wishes to export/bring his or her firearms/ammunition to hunt outside the U.S.?

A: The firearms and ammunition to be exported must be with the individual’s accompanied or unaccompanied (checked) baggage or effects. The owner must declare that the firearms and/or ammunition to be exported are for his/her exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership. The owner must state that it is his/her intent to return with the firearms/ammunition on his/her return to the United States.

See 22 C.F.R. §123.17

Q: Which of these requirements are new?

A: Firearm/ammunition owners are newly being required to submit Electronic Export Information (EEI) in the Automated Export System (AES) to obtain an Internal Transaction Number (ITN). The AES is a joint venture between CBP, the Foreign Trade Division of the Bureau of the Census (under the Department of Commerce), the Bureau of Industry and Security (under Commerce), the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (under the Department of State), other Federal agencies, and the export trade community.

Q: How are the new export requirements different than what was previously required?

A: For many years, the State Department’s International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR) have allowed Americans to temporarily export up to three non-automatic firearms and up to 1,000 rounds of ammunition without a license, as long as the firearms were declared and presented to a CBP officer (also known as a Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) license exemption). Previously, the owner of the firearms/ammunition would bring the firearms/ammunition to a CBP office at some point before the trip and would complete Customs Form 4457—a form that can be completed for any personal property and that is normally used to prove that the traveler owned the property before going abroad. The form protects a traveler from paying import duties on items already owned. The owner of the firearms/ammunition would retain the form and present it upon reentry if needed. Form 4457 will no longer satisfy the requirements for bringing firearms/ammunition out of the country.

Additional information about the new requirements can be obtained from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement website: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

Q: Why is this change going into effect now?

A: These new requirements became part of regulations that went into effect in 2012. For reasons unknown at this time, the government has only recently decided to implement them.

Q: When do these changes go into effect?

A: While we do not know for certain, some sources indicate that these changes have already gone into effect. Other sources state that the changes will be imposed on April 3, 2015. Regardless, it appears that CBP may not actually be ready to fully implement these changes. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) may not be able to require individuals to use the AES system because the system requires entry of an Employer Identification Number (EIN). EINs are normally only obtained by businesses, and the Internal Revenue Service says they should only be used for tax purposes. Because individuals do not generally possess EINs, it may not be possible for ICE to require hunters to utilize them for firearms exportation purposes. SCI is currently investigating this question.

SCI has learned from the National Rifle Association that CBP has instituted a temporary plan for those who wish to export their firearms and who are either unaware of the new requirements or are unable to use the AES system. We have been told that, under the temporary plan, CBP officers at airports can manually enter identifying information about the traveler/exporter and his/her firearms. SCI is attempting to verify this information. We do not know how long this temporary plan may be in effect. We also do not know what system will be available for those who are leaving the U.S. by means other than airports (e.g., driving to Canada).

Q: What is SCI doing to address these changes?

A: Currently, SCI is gathering information to try to better inform our members about what they will need to do to ensure that they are complying the new requirements. At the same time, we will be working on ways to delay the implementation of the requirements until our members have a better understanding of how to comply. We are also working with our partners in the hunting and recreational shooting communities to challenge the implementation of these requirements. We will continue to update you as we obtain additional information.
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One Response to “Member Alert! New Requirements for Traveling with Firearms Outside U.S.”

Mia Anstine says:
March 23, 2015 at 9:52 am

Reblogged this on Mia Anstine – Sharing the Outdoors and commented:
The rules of international firearms transport change often. Always remember to check the rules before your hunting trip.
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Just got off the phone with Fred at TWG. Steve Turner has gotten set up to get this done, at least for me he did (I already had an EIN). Another reason to use TWG!

drj, TWG will do mine as well since I used them to book flights. If a guy does not have an EIN as a sole proprietor already, you have to get one first. Steve has provided guidance on how to do this. Only after personally securing the sole proprietor EIN will he be able to get the permits for you. Still a great service.

I haven't thoroughly read each post on this thread, but assuming a guy gets the EIN solely for purposes of exporting the firearm and ammo, do you have to file tax returns for this entity each and every year following? I have several EIN's, but none as sole proprietor.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider: ... do you have to file tax returns for this entity each and every year following? I have several EIN's, but none as sole proprietor.

Excellent question. Consult your tax professional. I would "imagine" that the worst case scenario is that you "may" have to file a "no-activity return" just to prove or establish to the IRS that no income was generated under the EIN and that you did not employ anyone under the EIN. Just another (intended) (unintended) consequence of this little gem of a regulation.

If you apply for an EIN, the IRS will issue you a SS-4. On that SS4 will show what forms they will be expecting you to file each year for that EIN.

Just got an email from Steve Turner at TWG. Have my ITN! Those folks are the BEST!

Presently sitting in Emirate's Lounge at SeaTac airport after obtaining my Tuffpak and checked case with ammo from Alaska Air.

No issue rechecking with Emirates. They were very efficient and helpful. After checking the ammo weight and firearm serial numbers the Emirates representative accompanied me to TSA.

No one required my coveted yellow sticky ITN number and Customs and Border Protection were not notified.

Presently sipping Piper Heidsieck Brut and my butt hole has relaxed.

Cheers
Jim and Joyce

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Presently sitting in Emirate's Lounge at SeaTac airport after obtaining my Tuffpak and checked case with ammo from Alaska Air.

No issue rechecking with Emirates. They were very efficient and helpful. After checking the ammo weight and firearm serial numbers the Emirates representative accompanied me to TSA.

No one required my coveted yellow sticky ITN number and Customs and Border Protection were not notified.

Presently sipping Piper Heidsieck Brut and my butt hole has relaxed.

Cheers
Jim and Joyce

Good Job Jim !!!

Shoot, Saeed has probably already notified Emiarites to let them know he has a VIP on that flight.

He may have mentioned your name too Jim, but I'd stay close to Joyce, just in case.

TMI Jim!

I spoke with a representative of one of the hunting organizations back in DC this afternoon. They know about the problem and are diligently working on the issue.

They are playing their cards close to the vest- and they should. This will be politics at its finest or its worse depending on how it turns out. I will check back with them in a day or so and if there is progress to report, I will let you know.

Sorry to be so vague but right now they do not need to fan the flames about what they are doing. They will get more accomplished behind the scenes with a few kind words and a well placed arm twisting.

Matt

I guess I'll form a corporation called "Trying to comply with meaningless government regulations, Inc., or something like that, minimally capitalize it, and apply for a taxpayer ID number even though it will never be a taxpayer, just to get a taxpayer ID # so that I can comply with this rule.

Is this silly or what? I guess I can use the corporation for some purpose in the future and just change it's name after we change this Administration.

The current Administration will, no doubt, claim that they created new jobs evidenced by the obvious increase in new "businesses".

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I guess I'll form a corporation called "Trying to comply with meaningless government regulations, Inc., or something like that, minimally capitalize it, and apply for a taxpayer ID number even though it will never be a taxpayer, just to get a taxpayer ID # so that I can comply with this rule.

Is this silly or what? I guess I can use the corporation for some purpose in the future and just change it's name after we change this Administration.

The current Administration will, no doubt, claim that they created new jobs evidenced by the obvious increase in new "businesses".

Ain't it the truth!

Our Gov't doesn't even comp[ly with the silly damn laws they create but they sure give us hell if we don't!


.

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider: ... do you have to file tax returns for this entity each and every year following? I have several EIN's, but none as sole proprietor.

Excellent question. Consult your tax professional. I would "imagine" that the worst case scenario is that you "may" have to file a "no-activity return" just to prove or establish to the IRS that no income was generated under the EIN and that you did not employ anyone under the EIN. Just another (intended) (unintended) consequence of this little gem of a regulation.

Spoke with a CPA today if you wanted to, just file a 1040c and put zero down

Thank you sir!

quote:

Originally posted by Dog Man:
Shoot, Saeed has probably already notified Emiarites to let them know he has a VIP on that flight.

He may have mentioned your name too Jim, but I'd stay close to Joyce, just in case.

I can pretty much insure that the VIP status alert was not in effect. It took about two hours to get through Customs and Dubai Police even though I had all my documents. I think the stopover with firearms is not something they deal with regularly. I bet the standard transit with the rifles checked all the way though have no issue. Perhaps Mike Jines and relate how long it took for him this last trip.

Cheers
JIm