quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
The only thing that's gonna make me happy is if it goes away!



.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Department of Homeland Security Johnson was taken to task about this situation this morning by numerous elected officials and (and more will be calling) was told to "fix it" or risk questions on funding. If anything come from it, I'll post it.
Keep calling and writing your elected officials.

for DSC!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Department of Homeland Security Johnson was taken to task about this situation this morning by numerous elected officials and (and more will be calling) was told to "fix it" or risk questions on funding. If anything come from it, I'll post it.
Keep calling and writing your elected officials.

for DSC!!!

Yes +1. Thank you Karl.

Here is the letter I sent to Lamar Smith's office this morning. I was told by the recipient that it would be forwarded to an official at ICE, and that a response would be required.

March 31, 2015

Curtis Philp
Senior Counsel
Rep. Lamar Smith (TX-21)
2409 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Mr. Philp,

Thank you for contacting me last week regarding my email to Representative Smith outlining my concerns about new regulations affecting citizens traveling overseas with firearms and ammunition for lawful sporting purposes.

Currently, citizens who travel with firearms are advised to obtain Form 4457 Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad from CBP prior to leaving the country. Form 4457 contains space for an individual to list valuable items that may be taken out of the country, including details like description, make, model and serial number. Once completed, the form is signed by a CBP agent and is good for as long as the citizen owns the items listed. The following language is contained on the back of the form:

The Paperwork Reduction Act requires that we advise you of the purpose of this form and how the information will be used. The form is provided for your use, strictly at your option, in lieu of or in addition to bills of sale, appraisals, and/or repair receipts to show the CBP officer proof of prior possession of the article(s) in the U.S. The completion of this form by you is strictly voluntary. U.S. Customs and Border Protection does not maintain copies of the completed forms.

However, in my experience over the past 20 years traveling internationally with firearms, the use of Form 4457 is not voluntary and the form has become a de facto "license" to reenter the country with your lawfully owned property at the risk of having your firearms seized by CBP if you are not in possession of the form. I have been advised by CBP officers to bring my rifles to their facility for inspection in order to complete the form, despite the fact that the form is for my use and at my discretion. Also, it has been my personal experience with CBP officers at San Antonio International Airport that newly issued forms are copied and retained. When I have asked why this was being done, I was not given an answer. It has been made clear for several years to citizens traveling with firearms that Form 4457 is not discretionary and that CBP will exercise its authority by seizing your property if you are unable to present the form upon reentry into the U.S.

I give this summary of the current process to illustrate how bureaucratic power expansion is steadily eroding our rights and how a slip of paper intended as discretionary proof of ownership for duty/tax purposes has become a requirement and a means for the federal government to register ownership of firearms. Regulations that are about to become effective only make the situation worse.

Effective May 1, citizens traveling overseas with firearms will be subject to new regulations which call for the licensing of firearms exports. Individuals traveling with three or fewer firearms and with less than 1000 rounds of ammunition can obtain a license exemption by filing an Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the government's Automated Export System (AES). In order to comply with the new regulations, a citizen must register, using an Employer Identification Number (EIN), and list firearms details into a federal database. The AES is a commercial system, not intended for the purpose for which it is being used in this case and as a result the process is an intrusive hindrance that seems to be made purposefully complicated so as to make compliance as difficult as possible. For instance, most citizens do not have an EIN. Furthermore, based on my summary above of the evolution of the current process, the new regulations have the capacity to substantially inhibit or effectively stop the future use of legally owned firearms by law-abiding citizens in the course of their travels overseas. Finally, the new regulations present a path toward federal registration of firearms and look based in part on the UN Treaty on International Arms Trafficking, which the U.S has not ratified. There should be a clear delineation in any regulation of the treatment of law abiding citizens traveling with lawfully owned firearms vs. gun runners and criminals. The new regulations do not achieve that separation and I believe unless corrected, they will ultimately lead to a further erosion of our Second Amendment rights. I urge you to advise Representative Smith to take whatever steps necessary to voice my opposition and that of other law-abiding gun owners to ICE and CBP about these intrusive, complicated and unnecessary regulations.

Sincerely,

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
Here is the letter I sent to Lamar Smith's office this morning. I was told by the recipient that it would be forwarded to an official at ICE, and that a response would be required.

March 31, 2015

Curtis Philp
Senior Counsel
Rep. Lamar Smith (TX-21)
2409 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Mr. Philp,

Thank you for contacting me last week regarding my email to Representative Smith outlining my concerns about new regulations affecting citizens traveling overseas with firearms and ammunition for lawful sporting purposes.

Currently, citizens who travel with firearms are advised to obtain Form 4457 Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad from CBP prior to leaving the country. Form 4457 contains space for an individual to list valuable items that may be taken out of the country, including details like description, make, model and serial number. Once completed, the form is signed by a CBP agent and is good for as long as the citizen owns the items listed. The following language is contained on the back of the form:

The Paperwork Reduction Act requires that we advise you of the purpose of this form and how the information will be used. The form is provided for your use, strictly at your option, in lieu of or in addition to bills of sale, appraisals, and/or repair receipts to show the CBP officer proof of prior possession of the article(s) in the U.S. The completion of this form by you is strictly voluntary. U.S. Customs and Border Protection does not maintain copies of the completed forms.

However, in my experience over the past 20 years traveling internationally with firearms, the use of Form 4457 is not voluntary and the form has become a de facto "license" to reenter the country with your lawfully owned property at the risk of having your firearms seized by CBP if you are not in possession of the form. I have been advised by CBP officers to bring my rifles to their facility for inspection in order to complete the form, despite the fact that the form is for my use and at my discretion. Also, it has been my personal experience with CBP officers at San Antonio International Airport that newly issued forms are copied and retained. When I have asked why this was being done, I was not given an answer. It has been made clear for several years to citizens traveling with firearms that Form 4457 is not discretionary and that CBP will exercise its authority by seizing your property if you are unable to present the form upon reentry into the U.S.

I give this summary of the current process to illustrate how bureaucratic power expansion is steadily eroding our rights and how a slip of paper intended as discretionary proof of ownership for duty/tax purposes has become a requirement and a means for the federal government to register ownership of firearms. Regulations that are about to become effective only make the situation worse.

Effective May 1, citizens traveling overseas with firearms will be subject to new regulations which call for the licensing of firearms exports. Individuals traveling with three or fewer firearms and with less than 1000 rounds of ammunition can obtain a license exemption by filing an Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the government's Automated Export System (AES). In order to comply with the new regulations, a citizen must register, using an Employer Identification Number (EIN), and list firearms details into a federal database. The AES is a commercial system, not intended for the purpose for which it is being used in this case and as a result the process is an intrusive hindrance that seems to be made purposefully complicated so as to make compliance as difficult as possible. For instance, most citizens do not have an EIN. Furthermore, based on my summary above of the evolution of the current process, the new regulations have the capacity to substantially inhibit or effectively stop the future use of legally owned firearms by law-abiding citizens in the course of their travels overseas. Finally, the new regulations present a path toward federal registration of firearms and look based in part on the UN Treaty on International Arms Trafficking, which the U.S has not ratified. There should be a clear delineation in any regulation of the treatment of law abiding citizens traveling with lawfully owned firearms vs. gun runners and criminals. The new regulations do not achieve that separation and I believe unless corrected, they will ultimately lead to a further erosion of our Second Amendment rights. I urge you to advise Representative Smith to take whatever steps necessary to voice my opposition and that of other law-abiding gun owners to ICE and CBP about these intrusive, complicated and unnecessary regulations.

Sincerely,

Brilliant--thank you

I had a call from one of the Senate staff members today that I have been sharing information with re: the proposed changes. They are continuing to look into this, but I was surprised to learn from that discussion that it was their understanding that Form 4457 will be replaced by this new system. That was news to me as I have not seen anything anywhere that this might be the case. Just one more piece of data.

Hopefully it all goes away. But in case it doesn't, and we need to start filing our own EEI on the AES system, I put together a rough draft of the process. Keep in mind this is once you already have an AES account, and have your personal EIN from the IRS.

This is a rough draft. I called the AES support line and had them walk me thru the entire form, so this should be pretty accurate. Any input on how to make it better is appreciated. (spelling, grammar, etc...)

http://www.docdroid.net/w4mu/a...nstructions.pdf.html

http://www.lsonews.com/new-rul...-based-applications/



Kambaku,

The second to last paragraph addresses the 4455 & 4457 as supporting document only.



New rules for traveling abroad with firearms — U.S. Customs clarifies regulations, web-based applications
By Conor Harrison on March 26, 2015 in Texas Hunting 1
TXI_27513 copy

Written by Craig Nyhus, Lone Star Outdoor News

Recent indications of changes to requirements when traveling internationally with firearms an is causing a stir for those about to head abroad as the hunting seasons begin in Africa and other countries in the Southern Hemisphere. The solution, though, appears simpler than anticipated.

Safari Club International sent an alert to its members, as did the National Rifle Association, advising of potential new regulations applying to hunters traveling with firearms and/or ammunition.

Until now, hunters traveling with firearms follow a pretty simple process. If traveling with fewer than three non-automatic firearms and 1,000 or fewer cartridges, the owner of the firearms/ammunition would bring the firearms/ammunition to a CBP office at some point before the trip and would complete a Customs Form 4457 — a form that can be completed for any personal property and that is normally used to prove that the traveler owned the property before going abroad. The form protects a traveler from paying import duties on items already owned. The owner of the firearms/ammunition would retain the form and present it upon reentry if needed.



The alerts came out after information that changes may be in the works. The website of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq) outlines regulations established two years ago, but not yet enforced for hunters traveling with firearms. It appears that hunters are now required to obtain an International Transaction Number from the submission of the Electronic Export Information in the Commerce Department’s Automatic Export System (AES) and present this number with the firearm(s) when declaring the articles with a U.S. Customs and Border Protection officer. The regulation may be found at 22 C.F.R. 123.17. The website states as follows:

If a hunter wishes to temporarily export three or fewer non-automatic firearms from the United States and 1000 or fewer cartridges — at the time of his/her departure from the U.S., he or she must declare the articles to a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officer, present the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) obtained from the submission of the Electronic Export Information in the Automated Export System (AES) and present the firearms and/or cartridges for a visual inspection to the CBP officer at the port of departure from the United States.

The firearms and ammunition to be exported must be with the individual’s accompanied or unaccompanied (checked) baggage or effects.

The owner must declare that the firearms and/or ammunition to be exported are for his/her exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership. The owner must state that it is his/her intent to return with the firearms/ammunition on his/her return to the United States.



Lone Star Outdoor News contacted CBP, who issued the following statement this morning.

“U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is responsible for the enforcement of Department of Commerce and Department of State regulations for the export of certain controlled commodities, which include the export of firearms for personal use abroad.

Travelers seeking to permanently or temporarily export firearms in checked baggage are expected to comply with federal export licensing regulations.

These regulations include the traveler declaring their firearms to CBP using the Automated Export System (AES). AES has a free web-based internet application known as AESDirect that allows the traveling public to make their declarations electronically. The submission of the information is known as the Electronic Export Information. The travelers must file their declarations for controlled commodities, including rifles, handguns, and associated ammunition, at least eight hours prior to their departure from the United States. The export of shotguns can be made up to two hours prior to departure from the United States. For easier identification, it is recommended that the serial, make, model, and caliber information be placed into the commodity description field.

More information about using AESDirect can be found at http://aesdirect.census.gov/.

Upon returning to the United States, the traveler will make a regular declaration regarding the personal effects and goods that they are carrying and ensure that they declare any firearms and ammunition.

Previously issued CBP Forms 4455 and CBP 4457 can only be used as supporting documentation upon re-entry into the United States, to show that duties, taxes and fees on foreign made products have been previously paid. These forms are not sufficient for the export declaration of firearms or other controlled commodities.”

Although the web-based applications don’t appear difficult, travelers should be reminded to comply before heading to the customs office to save time and avoid a return trip after completing the application process.

As of today I have jumped through the hoops to get my EIN. I called Travel with Guns and they said they can handle the rest. I really hope this does not cause me to get audited, thrown into prison, or perhaps killed by agents of the almighty U.S. Federal government. May God have mercy on my soul. This shit is enough to make me want to take up stamp collecting or perhaps even golf.

Nice information, thanks for all the work. I couldn't get them to walk me through it that far or the person I talked to didn't know.

"The travelers must file their declarations for controlled commodities, including rifles, handguns, and associated ammunition, at least eight hours prior to their departure from the United States."

I live in suburban Philadelphia and normally fly out of JFK. It's about a two hour drive. It looks like I'm now expected to get to the port of departure (JFK airport) at least 8 hours before my flight leaves. What a load of crap.

I was informed today by a coppersmith agent that AESdirect will soon cease to exist. Also, you cannot apply prior than 5 days from time of travel(export).No news on how or when I have the visual inspection done.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Nice information, thanks for all the work. I couldn't get them to walk me through it that far or the person I talked to didn't know.

yeah I had to basically keep asking this or that, and by the end of it got it all covered. He wouldn't give me exact answers (like on what to enter on the description of commodity) but I would basically read everything back and he would say "I think that would be fine" he also could not tell me the exact Schedule B classification numbers, but I think the ones I have as close as I could find. If anyone else has gotten to this point, let me know what numbers you have used or plan to use.

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
"The travelers must file their declarations for controlled commodities, including rifles, handguns, and associated ammunition, at least eight hours prior to their departure from the United States."

I live in suburban Philadelphia and normally fly out of JFK. It's about a two hour drive. It looks like I'm now expected to get to the port of departure (JFK airport) at least 8 hours before my flight leaves. What a load of crap.

I think this means that you have to file the export declaration in the AES system prior to departure.

Give me African corruption any day. $5 or $20 and the problem is solved. In the USA the corruption is so insidious and institutional that no amount of money can "fix" the problem.

When someone gasps how I smoothed out my "rifle and ammunition" issues with the Zim officials at the airport, by a liberal application of $20. I now have this along with the elephant ban to argue things are maybe worse here.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
"The travelers must file their declarations for controlled commodities, including rifles, handguns, and associated ammunition, at least eight hours prior to their departure from the United States."

I live in suburban Philadelphia and normally fly out of JFK. It's about a two hour drive. It looks like I'm now expected to get to the port of departure (JFK airport) at least 8 hours before my flight leaves. What a load of crap.

I think this means that you have to file the export declaration in the AES system prior to departure.

Exactly and it can be several days prior.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Give me African corruption any day. $5 or $20 and the problem is solved. In the USA the corruption is so insidious and institutional that no amount of money can "fix" the problem.

When someone gasps how I smoothed out my "rifle and ammunition" issues with the Zim officials at the airport, by a liberal application of $20. I now have this along with the elephant ban to argue things are maybe worse here.

You know sir...I am inclined to agree with you...sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
Here is the letter I sent to Lamar Smith's office this morning. I was told by the recipient that it would be forwarded to an official at ICE, and that a response would be required.

David,

I just sent an email to my representative, House Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy using your letter as a template.

I used to work with his Mother years ago so I'm pretty sure that I will get a reply.

I'll post up here on what he says.

Just checked in at JFK. No problem with port authority. No paperwork asked for. One guy loved a Gary Stiles built 9.3 x 62. So far, so good.

At customs in orlando - not airport but regional office outside airport.

Filed out a 4457 and was told they are entering it into the system. Unlike last 1/2 dozen times when they stamped it and gave it. The officer took at the info and is entering into the system as I wait.

He said make sure you come back with gun and you will be subject to mandatory custom inspection where the serial number needs to match with one in system.

I asked about ein, aes, tin - nothing.

Just said make you have your 4457 and the serial numbers match.

He said eventually they are going to electronic system where you self enter this info.

This is confusing as hell as even the custom regional office does not have all answers.

Waiting till he gets back from entering stuff - will write update.

Mike

Just walked out of customs - they said I am all set to go.

They had taken my passport and 4457 in and entered into the system and it took them 30 min

I am assuming there is a sako 85m left handed 9.3x62 wih a trijicon 3-9x40 registered to my passport

Question becomes what if rifle is sold, how info is changed in the system, if scope is changed ect

Imp questions but irrelevant to me as I don't sell guns

Just entered world of gun registration to passport

Still no info on aes or tin

They said I was all set to go

No one asked when I was leaving - so I assume this info is permanent in the system tied to my passport.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Just walked out of customs - they said I am all set to go.

They had taken my passport and 4457 in and entered into the system and it took them 30 min

I am assuming there is a sako 85m left handed 9.3x62 wih a trijicon 3-9x40 registered to my passport

Question becomes what if rifle is sold, how info is changed in the system, if scope is changed ect

Imp questions but irrelevant to me as I don't sell guns

Just entered world of gun registration to passport

Still no info on aes or tin

They said I was all set to go

No one asked when I was leaving - so I assume this info is permanent in the system tied to my passport.

Mike

My experience last week at the CBP office near Phoenix Sky Harbor mirrored years except for the passport part. I didn't have it with me and they didn't ask for it.

Talked with the supervisor in person who I had previously spoken with over the phone, he said he couldn't see how I would have any problems.....we'll see in about 52 days.

http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=709



Update on New Firearm Export Requirements for US Travelers

(posted March 27, 2015)

Answers about those new requirements by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement for the temporary export of sport firearms are slowly surfacing, but it has taking some digging. While most front-line Customs agents still seem to be in the dark about these requirements, we understand the target date for implementation is May 1, 2015. At that time US travelers or an agent acting on their behalf will have to file the Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES) to acquire an Internal Transaction Number (ITN). The ITN is evidence to Customs Border Patrol that you filed an AES and upon returning to the US you can prove you originally had the firearm when you left.

However, actually filing the AES has proven problematic for most people who have tried. Here's an explanation of how to overcome some of the difficulties, thanks to Jeff Coppersmith, president of Coppersmith Global Logistics and a chairman of the association for custom brokers and freight forwarders. Through his professional connections at Customs, the Internal Revenue Service, the Census Bureau and other agencies involved in this effort, Coppersmith acquired the following information for hunters and shooters trying to file the EEI through AES.

The AES system, actually designed for commercial use in exporting goods, requires you to have an EIN (Employer Identification Number). (Originally, users of AES could use a social security number, but, due to identity theft, an EIN is now required.) This is where many travelers hit a roadblock. Coppersmith says you can get an EIN assigned to you through the IRS.gov website. Sign up as a Sole Proprietor without any employees. There is a comment box in which you should write "For AES purposes only." This should exempt you from having to file any other forms usually required by the IRS when filing for an EIN. According to Coppersmith, the process should take no more than 15 minutes online. Once you have an EIN, go to the site AESDirect.gov and follow the instructions. There is no charge to file. *Note if you have an EIN for your business, you CANNOT use your company's EIN for this purpose. You must get a personal EIN.

When filing through AES, remember to include each firearm you are taking (up to three per person) and the ammunition you are taking.

As an option, Coppersmith is offering to complete AES filings as one of his company's services to hunters. Coppersmith Global Logistics is a licensed freight forwarder and is familiar with the system. They will require a signed Export Power of Attorney, your EIN and a completed questionnaire detailing your trip and the firearms you plan to take. Coppersmith is charging $50 for the service.

Travel agent Steve Turner of Travel with Guns is also offering this service to clients who book their flights through his company.Be aware that you must still get a Customs Form 4457 and present all the paperwork to Customs before exiting the country with your firearms. The Hunting Report heard just today that some hunters are already being asked for their ITNs by Customs. So, while many field agents don't seem to know anything about the new regulations, a few seem to think the new regulations are already in force. Our advice - don't take a chance, especially if you will be returning from your trip after May 1.

In the meantime, a number of organizations are working to either repeal this new requirement altogether or suspend it until the agencies involved have a more user-friendly system in place and have their front-line agents properly trained on the enforcement. Both the National Rifle Association and the National Shooting Sports Foundation are fully engaged on this issue and have proceeded to meet with appropriate agency personnel and lawmakers. Other organizations include Safari Club International and The World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities. Stay tuned. - Barbara Crown, Editor-in-Chief

Get important news bulletins like this sent directly to your email 24 hours before anyone else sees them, plus unlimited access to our database of hunt reports and past articles, a special expanded electronic version of our newsletter and more! Upgrade your Hunting Report subscription to Email Extra today. Click here for more information.

Thanks for the update Kathi!

quote:

Originally posted by RAC: ... This shit is enough to make me want to take up stamp collecting or perhaps even golf.

That's part of the plan. There is a method to the government's "madness." And ... now CBP has issued some friendly "help" to those of us who are trying to figure this out. Take a look:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answe...rearm%20Export/sno/1

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by RAC: ... This shit is enough to make me want to take up stamp collecting or perhaps even golf.

That's part of the plan. There is a method to the government's "madness." And ... now CBP has issued some friendly "help" to those of us who are trying to figure this out. Take a look:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answe...rearm%20Export/sno/1

Something pretty wrong when you require travelers (persons) to use a registration system that is designed for legal entities that are not persons - getting a ein number.

All help numbers are too other agencies.

Lets hope the nra picks this issue up.

The visit to the customs office and talking to 1/2 dozen people totally contradicts what the website says. Tells you how ill informed custom agents are.

This is not some unintentional bureaucratic procedure. It is intentional and aimed at impairing gun owners where ever they (obama) can.

This is a perfect issue for nra to fire up its base. Appeals far more to average gun owners and nra members than elephant import ban.

Time to register the guns.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E: ... This is not some unintentional bureaucratic procedure. It is intentional ...

Of course it is. And it is brought to you by the same "good folks" who gave us: Fast-n-Furious, Lois Lerner-Gate, Benghazi-Gate, NSA-Gate, and Obamacare, among other things. (They are still licking their wounds on the failed assault rifle and AR15 ammo bans ... but just give them time ... so they can do a little more "community organizing" ... or maybe give Rev. Al a new mission.)

Stuff like this is the reason the right must band together, put petty differences aside, and become energized for 2016! Even with the Congress...the executive branch can make our lives miserable.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Stuff like this is the reason the right must band together, put petty differences aside, and become energized for 2016! Even with the Congress...the executive branch can make our lives miserable.

A hearty Amen from the back row!

I went to the Customs office in Greensboro, NC today with my rifles and passport, etc. The Customs officer told me they were no longer allowed to give Form 4457 for firearms. They had a tear sheet with the website for ICE and told me I would just have to go to the website and follow instructions for how to temporarily export a firearm.

Gracy Travel is using Coppersmith to do the AES portion of getting the ITN for clients. I sent an email to Coppersmith but did not get a response before I left the office. Of the information that Gracy Travel asked regarding the firearm, they were not sure how to handle a rifle not manufactured in the US. I am planning to carry my Verney-Carron 500NE on this trip. If it's already in this country, what differene does it make where it was manufactured?

Customs indicated that I may have to collect my baggage in Atlanta and go thru Customs there before my flight going to Africa. What a cluster! I would add that the Customs officer was polite and assured me it was not their decision to change the rules.

The fun continues!

BIG PROBLEM WITH NO 4457!

Since the US doesn't have a national "license" for long gun firearms, when you enter a foreign country to get your temp import permit/license, they have been using the 4457 as your "license to own" that firearm".

A CBP 4457 can be used to show proof that you possessed ANY and ALL personal items that you take out of the country. The US purpose of the 4457 is so that when you come back with that item you don't have to pay an import tax. You can put cameras, laptops, jewelry ANYTHING of value.

If I were you. I'd be on the phone back to that office and try to explain that to them and try to get a supervisor involved if you need to.

Secondly, you can't print from the AESDirect web site. All you can do is write down the ITN on a note pad or try to do a "print screen" function.

Ed S, I'd say you talked to probably the most ignorant gov't worker in NC. That ain't no compliment. I'd try to find another customs office and get that 4457 done, you'll 100% need it. Also, I'm told you will not have to re-check guns in ATL. What a freaking cluster.....

When I went to the website, it said you probably still want to have a 4457...duh. I think I am going to call the Charlotte office tomorrow and see what they say. The Greensboro office is small and I seem to talk to the same two officers every time I call or go there. I'm about and hour and half from either Charlotte or Raleigh.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
When I went to the website, it said you probably still want to have a 4457...duh. I think I am going to call the Charlotte office tomorrow and see what they say. The Greensboro office is small and I seem to talk to the same two officers every time I call or go there. I'm about and hour and half from either Charlotte or Raleigh.

Ed,
Go on-line and download a 4457 and fill it out before printing it. Do a seperate for each rifle now. Take those in with your passport and see if the won't stamp and sign them. Just google 4457 for the page. Then e-mail me and I will give you a direct Coppersmith contact. ledvm@msn.com

I got 4457's signed and stamped 7 days ago. Took them in filled out with guns and passport.

I'm interested from a historical perspective just what the impetus was to start using 4457s. Does anyone recall the timeline?

When and why did the use of 4457s to record firearms begin?

Did hunters start doing this voluntarily for concern they would be asked if they were importing a firearm when they returned? Did they do it because of concerns about being charged customs duty on the value?
People fly in and out of the country every day with watches and jewellery that are worth way more than most guns without any customs problems!!

Did Customs start demanding it even though it was (no longer is) voluntary? Does anyone recall if there was any attempt to stop the slippery slope at that time if it was the case?

Just wondering if this is a problem that started with hunters "erring on the side of caution" and snowballed from there?!! To the extent that foreign governments are asking to see 4457s even though they have nothing to do with them and prove nothing about ownership?

P.S. Not suggesting this mess is our fault, but did the bureaucracy take advantage of it?

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Question becomes what if rifle is sold, how info is changed in the system, if scope is changed ect

It's an interesting angle particularly for the new owner or in states where it's legal to borrow a gun from someone. What if my friend lends me his previously registered gun to take on a safari? Is there a cross check where it comes up as registered to someone else? And how is it dealt with? It obviously didn't happen with the 4457 registrations but it would be a lousy technology implementation if it didn't happen with the export computer systems!!

The same could apply to a multitude of other items that have serial numbers or other unique identification.

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:
I'm interested from a historical perspective just what the impetus was to start using 4457s. Does anyone recall the timeline?

When and why did the use of 4457s to record firearms begin?

Did hunters start doing this voluntarily for concern they would be asked if they were importing a firearm when they returned? Did they do it because of concerns about being charged customs duty on the value?
People fly in and out of the country every day with watches and jewellery that are worth way more than most guns without any customs problems!!

Did Customs start demanding it even though it was (no longer is) voluntary? Does anyone recall if there was any attempt to stop the slippery slope at that time if it was the case?

Just wondering if this is a problem that started with hunters "erring on the side of caution" and snowballed from there?!! To the extent that foreign governments are asking to see 4457s even though they have nothing to do with them and prove nothing about ownership?

P.S. Not suggesting this mess is our fault, but did the bureaucracy take advantage of it?

No one checked mine at all in the 90s. I think it started to become a pain in the ass after 9-11 and esp after Obama was elected.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:


Customs indicated that I may have to collect my baggage in Atlanta and go thru Customs there before my flight going to Africa.

So is he saying to only check it as far as Atlanta? If so, Delta's only obligation is to send your bags to ATL, not Africa. In other words, if your bags don't make it to ATL, Delta is not obligated to send them to JNB.

This is making AMS look like an NRA convention.

This is truly a clusterfuck.

Do you recall why you ever filled one out in the 90s?

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:
I'm interested from a historical perspective just what the impetus was to start using 4457s. Does anyone recall the timeline?

When and why did the use of 4457s to record firearms begin?

Did hunters start doing this voluntarily for concern they would be asked if they were importing a firearm when they returned? Did they do it because of concerns about being charged customs duty on the value?
People fly in and out of the country every day with watches and jewellery that are worth way more than most guns without any customs problems!!

Did Customs start demanding it even though it was (no longer is) voluntary? Does anyone recall if there was any attempt to stop the slippery slope at that time if it was the case?

Just wondering if this is a problem that started with hunters "erring on the side of caution" and snowballed from there?!! To the extent that foreign governments are asking to see 4457s even though they have nothing to do with them and prove nothing about ownership?

P.S. Not suggesting this mess is our fault, but did the bureaucracy take advantage of it?

No one checked mine at all in the 90s. I think it started to become a pain in the ass after 9-11 and esp after Obama was elected.

I hunted in Canada several times in the 80s and carried a 4457 then and was asked for it on the U.S. side. I forgot it one time and had an exchange with a U.S. customs officer. When I told him to just keep the rifle and give me a receipt for it and his contact info he let me continue on with the rifle and a warning not to forget the 4457 again.