Has DSC started working on this?

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=708

Those instructions are then followed with this scary warning: "Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is the primary federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating international smuggling operations and enforcing U.S. export control laws. Failure to comply with the federal regulations governing the temporary and permanent export of firearms and/or ammunition from the United States (including the proper filing of EEI) may result in the detention, seizure, and forfeiture of improperly declared firearms and ammunition and could further subject the traveler to arrest and criminal prosecution by HSI special agents for violation of federal export and/or arms smuggling laws."

Here we go, see the highlighted words. As I stated in my earlier post it's just a matter of time before they start targeting a lot of optics and other equipment that is export restricted. Most of it excessively restricted in my opinion.

In theory, if you showed up at the Customs inspection with a Trijicon or multitude of other lighted reticle scopes, ballistic reticles, etc. you could quite possibly be hung out to dry for violating export laws. The argument that the equipment is coming back isn't going to matter.

Seems like there is a serious administrative process approach by Obama administration to screwing recreational hunters. Sci Dsc and primarily NRA should lead this fight.

I am moving my trijicon scopes from international hunting rifles to ar platform rifles.

Since I have started hunting Africa in 2010 - I have seen Barnes solids banned as armor piercing and being now subject to arms export laws to take a legal owned rifle for recreational hunting in Zimbabwe.
Also cannot import elephants legally hunted back into us.

Wait and see trophy import from Africa might be subject to customs duty.

I have heard a lot of nasty things said about Obama - all of them justified. A nasty man generates nasty "truthful/accurate" comments.

Going to be a tough 2 years till Jan 2017.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:
On AfricaHunting.com this issue is also being discussed. If you go to page 7 of the discussion, post number 126, apparently Coppersmith Logistics can help the hunter out with the AESDirect part of this fiasco.

Phone # : 310-607-800, cost is $75

Thread Link: http://www.africahunting.com/t...rm-4457.21576/page-7

Has anyone used Coppersmith for this service.

After attempting to go through it...$75 looks cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:
On AfricaHunting.com this issue is also being discussed. If you go to page 7 of the discussion, post number 126, apparently Coppersmith Logistics can help the hunter out with the AESDirect part of this fiasco.

Phone # : 310-607-800, cost is $75

Thread Link: http://www.africahunting.com/t...rm-4457.21576/page-7

Has anyone used Coppersmith for this service.

After attempting to go through it...$75 looks cheap.

I haven't, but I tend to agree. No issue with the IRS and having an EIN number would seem to make it worthwhile.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:
On AfricaHunting.com this issue is also being discussed. If you go to page 7 of the discussion, post number 126, apparently Coppersmith Logistics can help the hunter out with the AESDirect part of this fiasco.

Phone # : 310-607-800, cost is $75

Thread Link: http://www.africahunting.com/t...rm-4457.21576/page-7

Has anyone used Coppersmith for this service.

After attempting to go through it...$75 looks cheap.

Lane,

Do you have a Customs and Border Protection office where you live?

Cheers
Jim

Frostbit – Great chatting with you and your lovely wife yesterday. Hope to see you in Tampa someday for dinner/drinks. Remember, the use of my condo near the airport for you guys for a few days is a standing offer. Again my hat is off to you for being the “Pathfinder” and finding what looks like might be a TEMPORARY patch for this while we all try to get this entire requirement STOPPED. Hope you both a safe and great adventure. You should REALLY shoot the Rex!!!

Lane – Ref your existing EIN question. I honestly don’t know. All I can offer is what is contained in the IRS links I’ve already posted and the telephone conversation I had with just one IRS rep and posted here. From what I gather, it is not unusual to ask the same question to different IRS telephone reps and get a different answer every time. That could be the reason she basically kept referring directly back to the IRS pubs I posted in the two links. My best GUESS is that an EIN of someone or primary business activity directly involved in the import/export/freight forwarding, etc., MIGHT be looked at/treated differently by the IRS than someone who gets an EIN for the sole purpose of getting a temp firearm export permit for a personal vacation. Bottomline at this point for me is….??????

Regarding your question about using/completing the on-line system – I was able to apparently successfully open and complete a shipping document. I at least got all the info bars at the top to turn green. After that I really don’t know what happens as I just couldn’t bring myself to hit the “SUBMIT” button and left it in draft form. As I stated earlier too, since I incorrectly/inadvertently created the account with my SS#, I called in and asked them to delete my account.

I did find something very curious about the form questions/info/data fields. What was explained to me by the AESDirect people I talked to, one reason for this new requirement was to track sporting/hunting firearms going out of the country and to make sure they are coming BACK into the county. The data fields in the application asked for departure date, airport, airline, but did not ask for the airline flight number, or the date of re-entry, airline and flight number. Just basic outbound info…???? I am just guessing on this one but it could be when we come back C&BP might have a computer terminal set up and enter our ITN’s and compare serial numbers – speculation on my part, but I think logical.

I haven’t called Coppersmiths to see how they do it, but from what I was specifically told multiple times by Heather in the AESDirect legal department an EIN is required by whoever opens the account and for the person the shipping document/export permit/ITN is being obtained for. Beyond that, I never tried to get farther. I also don't know how the C&BP office up in Anchorage got an ITN on a "little yellow sticky" for Frosbit, without an EIN from him.

I think for those outside of professional exporters/importers etc like Coppersmiths, travel agents and booking agents, for the time being at least, I would go back up to CBHNTR’s 20 Mar post and think REAL hard about offering this service. A screw-up here isn’t just missing a flight or finding a lost bag. We are talking about the potential confiscation of VERY expensive firearms, arrest and possible prosecution of somebody because of a type-o. But that is just me. Your money, your rifles and your possible time getting “three hots and a cot” while sharing a 8’x8’ room with one or two other people all paid for by Uncle Sam.

My Battle Plan starting tomorrow.

First up, I intend to get back in contact, either phone or face to face if I have to, with the C&BP officer I was last talking to at the Tampa airport freight-side of the terminal. Pass to her the updated info we’ve all uncovered in the past week, including names and phone numbers of the C&BP people that helped Frostbit crack this coconut and make sure to get this info to the “Export” side of the C&BP office as Frostbit passed along. I really think the long-term “fix” to this going to be necessarily driven from D.C. – either from within the C&BP, ICE, DOJ (not hopeful with that one) or Congress.

Next, since I’ve already emailed all of my Congressrats in the two States I hold property and pay taxes and only heard back from one of them. I’m getting on the phones and calling their local offices first and then their D.C. offices to get to the particular Deputy Director as Frostbit recommended or the particular “Staffer” that deals with 2A or outdoor/hunting issues. My intention is to give the “Reader’s Digest” version of what is going on and ask for their direct email address so I can send everyone of them the consolidated info we’ve all found to date and have posted here.

Once I get Phase 1 above done, based on the responses/feedback received I’ll finalize Phase 2.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Next, since I’ve already emailed all of my Congress rats in the two States I hold property and pay taxes, I’m getting on the phones and calling their local offices first and then their D.C. offices to get to the particular Deputy Director as Frostbit recommended or the particular “Staffer” that deals with 2A or outdoor/hunting issues. My intention is to give the “Reader’s Digest” version of what is going on and ask for their direct email address so I can send everyone of them the consolidated info we’ve all found to date and have posted here.

Once I get Phase 1 above done, based on the responses/feedback received I’ll finalize Phase 2.

EVERYBODY!! Read the quote. This is what a pro-active American citizen should be doing RIGHT NOW concerning this problem.

Maybe you aren't ever going to travel with a firearm outside the USA, so what? You are a Sportsman, are you not? I don't own a rifle that shoots .556 yet I actively wrote my Political folks concerning the "ammo ban".

If we don't stand together, we fall alone!!

DO IT!!

Get involved.

Cheers
Jim

Frostbit - true that. Everyone needs to realize this is not JUST about going to Africa. These same or similar requirements apply for gong ANYWHERE outside the US - Mule Deer in Mexico. Doves in Argentina. Deer, bear and moose in Canada. Red deer, roe deer, wingshooting etc in Europe. Water buffalo in Australia, and South America. It is also not limited to flying out of the country. It also is required when driving out of the US.

Stated as simply and clearly as possible. THIS APPLIES EVERYWHERE, EVERY TIME AND BY EVERY METHOD OF TRAVEL OUT OF THE US WITH FIREARMS.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
Has DSC started working on this?

Yep, about 4 hours after I read the original post, DSC's lobbyist was knocking on lawmakers doors and brought this to the attention of the NRA. We will see what comes of it in the next few days.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans: ... about 4 hours after I read the original post, DSC's lobbyist was knocking on lawmakers doors and brought this to the attention of the NRA. We will see what comes of it in the next few days.

Wonderful news! The more pressure that is put on the lawmakers, the better. Something about, "... A Squeaky Wheel ..."

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
It still doesn't do anything to address the longterm collection/creation of firearm ownership databases but that can be a separate fight.

Too late, that has been going on with CBP for about two years best I can tell.

If you will look back about a year ago I started a thread about how CBP was entering the make model serial number name and address of hunters (me) returning from overseas.

Last year when I came back from Romania or Bulgaria (can't recall which) CBP tried to look up my info on their computer.

"You and your gun are not in here. I will need to enter all the information."

It's a slow erosion of 2A rights. Few people care about the incremental loss of freedom. So, it is the easiest way to take someones rights away. Most local Deer hunters could care less that they will have trouble taking a gun out of the USA.

This is straight out of Saul Alinsky's playbook.

None of these "difficulties" or inconsistencies or the fact that you must have an EIN are by ay way an accident. Nothing this admin does is by chance. Every move, every rule, law, exec order has a purpose to be executed in the future.

This is more serious than being a major PITA for traveling hunters. There is purpose behind this rule, and something tells me it is not good.

Fight this, please everyone fight this, even if you are not a traveling hunter, or ever care to take your guns out of your own state. You have to recognize this as one more step in your loss of freedom.

NRA has a page on their site where you can look up and contact your representatives. I will see if I can find it.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
Has DSC started working on this?

Yep, about 4 hours after I read the original post, DSC's lobbyist was knocking on lawmakers doors and brought this to the attention of the NRA. We will see what comes of it in the next few days.

Karl

Thanks, as always I am proud to be a life member of DSC.

Truthfully I need to be more active politically myself.

Its on this page at the end of the article. Also its a good article on the issue.

NRA's Article on the new rule

It lists all your representatives, depending on the issue, even state reps.

You have the option to uncheck the bopxes for those who you do not want to send it to. I unchecked Obama and Biden, no use in sending that message to them.

At the end you get a confirmation that your message was sent and who it was sent to.

-----

Thank you!

Your message for "Write Your Lawmakers" was sent on 03/22/2015 17:46 PM to the following recipients: Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX), Gov. Greg Abbott (R-TX), Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R-TX), Sen. Jane Nelson (R-TX), Rep. Pat Fallon (R-TX), Atty. General Ken Paxton (R-TX)

----

Guys. This is easy. It is easier than reading one page of this thread.

FWIW, I used m3tacos well written letter since I don't think I could have put it better myself.

Please, take the time, click the link and send the message.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich

Too late, that has been going on with CBP for about two years best I can tell.

If you will look back about a year ago I started a thread about how CBP was entering the make model serial number name and address of hunters (me) returning from overseas.

Last year when I came back from Romania or Bulgaria (can't recall which) CBP tried to look up my info on their computer.

"You and your gun are not in here. I will need to enter all the information."

It's a slow erosion of 2A rights. Few people care about the incremental loss of freedom. So, it is the easiest way to take someones rights away. ...

None of these "difficulties" or inconsistencies or the fact that you must have an EIN are by ay way an accident. Nothing this admin does is by chance. Every move, every rule, law, exec order has a purpose to be executed in the future.

This is more serious than being a major PITA for traveling hunters. There is purpose behind this rule, and something tells me it is not good. ... You have to recognize this as one more step in your loss of freedom.

Frightening ... Absolutely Frightening! This is nothing more than a thinly veiled disguise for a "back-door" Federal Gun Registration Scheme from an administration that has its own history of "real gun-running," namely, Fast and Furious, and we will eventually learn, from Benghazi as well.

Wendell:

I had a somewhat similar experience 4-5 years ago. A rifle case "got lost" coming back - never got on the plane from Frankfurt to Charlotte. This was also the year before Frankfurt started charging the transit fee. Anyway, reported to the Airline immediately as well as US C&BP. I had a copy of the 4457 in hand as well as a copy in the case. Worked out giving an extra set of lock keys I also had to the US C&BP Station Chief (retired military). Short (happy ending) is the rifle and case shows up just fine a few days later. Here's the wrinkle...

Planned on taking the same rifle back the following year but with a different scope. Since I have the rifle and scope on the same 4457 I had to get a new 4457. When the C&BP officer was checking the serial number against the NICS database he came up to the window and said, "sir, this firearm is being reported as stolen".

I told him no, the gun was reported "lost" on the flight back. FORTUNATELY, I still had the original copy of the previous year's 4457 in the folder and it was issued from the same C&PB office. In the end he was able to clear the "flag" and issued the new 4457. Same rifle has been going back and forth every year and I think I've updated the 4457 either once or twice more without any problems.

From that point forward I was kind of thinking there was more going on in the back when they were "just checking the serial numbers in the NICS database".

I've never travelled overseas with a rifle. Is a NICS check done when you leave the country? INteresting.

The check is run as part of getting the 4457.

Supposedly, the justification is to prevent stolen weapons from leaving the US. I personally don't have a problem with that, PROVIDED that is ALL they are doing. But, it is looking more and more that some level of addition logging of information is being done and retained.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Frostbit – Great chatting with you and your lovely wife yesterday. Hope to see you in Tampa someday for dinner/drinks. Remember, the use of my condo near the airport for you guys for a few days is a standing offer. Again my hat is off to you for being the “Pathfinder” and finding what looks like might be a TEMPORARY patch for this while we all try to get this entire requirement STOPPED. Hope you both a safe and great adventure. You should REALLY shoot the Rex!!!

Lane – Ref your existing EIN question. I honestly don’t know. All I can offer is what is contained in the IRS links I’ve already posted and the telephone conversation I had with just one IRS rep and posted here. From what I gather, it is not unusual to ask the same question to different IRS telephone reps and get a different answer every time. That could be the reason she basically kept referring directly back to the IRS pubs I posted in the two links. My best GUESS is that an EIN of someone or primary business activity directly involved in the import/export/freight forwarding, etc., MIGHT be looked at/treated differently by the IRS than someone who gets an EIN for the sole purpose of getting a temp firearm export permit for a personal vacation. Bottomline at this point for me is….??????

Regarding your question about using/completing the on-line system – I was able to apparently successfully open and complete a shipping document. I at least got all the info bars at the top to turn green. After that I really don’t know what happens as I just couldn’t bring myself to hit the “SUBMIT” button and left it in draft form. As I stated earlier too, since I incorrectly/inadvertently created the account with my SS#, I called in and asked them to delete my account.

I did find something very curious about the form questions/info/data fields. What was explained to me by the AESDirect people I talked to, one reason for this new requirement was to track sporting/hunting firearms going out of the country and to make sure they are coming BACK into the county. The data fields in the application asked for departure date, airport, airline, but did not ask for the airline flight number, or the date of re-entry, airline and flight number. Just basic outbound info…???? I am just guessing on this one but it could be when we come back C&BP might have a computer terminal set up and enter our ITN’s and compare serial numbers – speculation on my part, but I think logical.

I haven’t called Coppersmiths to see how they do it, but from what I was specifically told multiple times by Heather in the AESDirect legal department an EIN is required by whoever opens the account and for the person the shipping document/export permit/ITN is being obtained for. Beyond that, I never tried to get farther. I also don't know how the C&BP office up in Anchorage got an ITN on a "little yellow sticky" for Frosbit, without an EIN from him.

I think for those outside of professional exporters/importers etc like Coppersmiths, travel agents and booking agents, for the time being at least, I would go back up to CBHNTR’s 20 Mar post and think REAL hard about offering this service. A screw-up here isn’t just missing a flight or finding a lost bag. We are talking about the potential confiscation of VERY expensive firearms, arrest and possible prosecution of somebody because of a type-o. But that is just me. Your money, your rifles and your possible time getting “three hots and a cot” while sharing a 8’x8’ room with one or two other people all paid for by Uncle Sam.

My Battle Plan starting tomorrow.

First up, I intend to get back in contact, either phone or face to face if I have to, with the C&BP officer I was last talking to at the Tampa airport freight-side of the terminal. Pass to her the updated info we’ve all uncovered in the past week, including names and phone numbers of the C&BP people that helped Frostbit crack this coconut and make sure to get this info to the “Export” side of the C&BP office as Frostbit passed along. I really think the long-term “fix” to this going to be necessarily driven from D.C. – either from within the C&BP, ICE, DOJ (not hopeful with that one) or Congress.

Next, since I’ve already emailed all of my Congressrats in the two States I hold property and pay taxes and only heard back from one of them. I’m getting on the phones and calling their local offices first and then their D.C. offices to get to the particular Deputy Director as Frostbit recommended or the particular “Staffer” that deals with 2A or outdoor/hunting issues. My intention is to give the “Reader’s Digest” version of what is going on and ask for their direct email address so I can send everyone of them the consolidated info we’ve all found to date and have posted here.

Once I get Phase 1 above done, based on the responses/feedback received I’ll finalize Phase 2.

Thank you sir!

I am going to C&BP & Coppersmiths on Thur. I have to get one 4457 anyway. I will report back what I find out and do.

You guys voted for the RETARD...

No, I don't think most of us voted that fool into his "kingdom".

quote:

You guys voted for the RETARD...

Obtuseness defined.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
You guys voted for the RETARD...

Please define "you guys" because I can fucking well guarantee that I am not one of "you guys" who voted for that Marxist POS!

Well, thanks everyone for all the info about this. My 15 year old son and I leave for New Zealand to hunt red stag this Friday, 03/27. My nearest customs office is over 3 hours away. Departure is from LAX. I've got the 4457s (2 rifles, scopes also listed). I had also notified the airline-NZ Air. Previously I spoke with a travel agent who has a specialty of NZ hunting. No one, the customs officer who issued the 4457s, the airline, or the travel agent, mentioned any of this. I first heard about it yesterday. At the moment I'm inclined to hope for the best and see what happens. But I'm also considering leaving the rifles at home and using something there.

Tomorrow I'm going to try making calls and see if I can get anywhere with this. Our rifles are not hugely expensive, but I'd hate to lose them. What a mess this is.

If anyone has any tips about LAX related to this issue, please post. I'll post again with whatever info may emerge.
Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Its on this page at the end of the article. Also its a good article on the issue.

NRA's Article on the new rule

It lists all your representatives, depending on the issue, even state reps.

You have the option to uncheck the bopxes for those who you do not want to send it to. I unchecked Obama and Biden, no use in sending that message to them.

At the end you get a confirmation that your message was sent and who it was sent to.

-----

Thank you!

Your message for "Write Your Lawmakers" was sent on 03/22/2015 17:46 PM to the following recipients: Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX), Gov. Greg Abbott (R-TX), Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R-TX), Sen. Jane Nelson (R-TX), Rep. Pat Fallon (R-TX), Atty. General Ken Paxton (R-TX)

----

Guys. This is easy. It is easier than reading one page of this thread.

FWIW, I used m3tacos well written letter since I don't think I could have put it better myself.

Please, take the time, click the link and send the message.

Thanks.

Done,

thanks for the link, I missed it when reading the article itself.

good luck let us know what happens

quote:

Originally posted by JeffreyPhD:
Well, thanks everyone for all the info about this. My 15 year old son and I leave for New Zealand to hunt red stag this Friday, 03/27. My nearest customs office is over 3 hours away. Departure is from LAX. I've got the 4457s (2 rifles, scopes also listed). I had also notified the airline-NZ Air. Previously I spoke with a travel agent who has a specialty of NZ hunting. No one, the customs officer who issued the 4457s, the airline, or the travel agent, mentioned any of this. I first heard about it yesterday. At the moment I'm inclined to hope for the best and see what happens. But I'm also considering leaving the rifles at home and using something there.

Tomorrow I'm going to try making calls and see if I can get anywhere with this. Our rifles are not hugely expensive, but I'd hate to lose them. What a mess this is.

If anyone has any tips about LAX related to this issue, please post. I'll post again with whatever info may emerge.
Jeff

To this point--
There has never been a NICS check associated with the 4457's --

That is--TO OUR KNOWLEDGE-

quote:

From that point forward I was kind of thinking there was more going on in the back when they were "just checking the serial numbers in the NICS database".

ALSO-There is NOT supposed to be a NICS --SERIAL NUMBER OWNERSHIP Database--

The FOPA (1986) Forbade the retention of such data -

OF COURSE -- "our" Batfe has been keeping the data illegally--

Data from multiple Handgun and 4 states worth of multiple rifle data--
AND--
data from the "new" online 4473's

Phase 1 - complete. I made direct phone contact with Congressional and Senatorial staff members who deal or specialize in Homeland Security Issues, in both my States. All of them confirmed they had also received my original emails sent individually last Thursday as well as the one I sent via the NRA website this morning containing EVERYTHING we've collectively dug up this effective early this morning.

I also made telephone and direct email contact to both the House and Senate Homeland Committees and provided the same info.

I've also contacted by phone and email with my local and very supportive C&BP officer here in Tampa and provided her with the same info as well as the direct telephone contact info the AK C&BP Station Chief Frostbit gave me.

Will give this a few days to rattle around and send a Recce flight around latter this week to check for BDA (Battle Damage Assessment).

General Observation - I only contacted "R's" as I'm pretty sure contacting any "D's" is a waste of time and resources. To a person, I found the staff members to be friendly, personable and interested. I started out friendly myself, gave them my name and asked to speak to the staff member specializing in Homeland Security Issues since ICE and C&BP fall under it. Gave the staff member the "Reader's Digest" version of what this was about. They also confirmed that they did receive my emails sent via the NRA link as well as my ones sent direct.

Note - word of caution to all. Unlike Hildebeest, THEY have records/data base of ALL emails you send!! Be nice.

Will see what comes back, if anything, this week and if pertinent, will post it up here.

Gents - get in the game!! One voice is NOT going to get anything changed or stopped.

Alert to SCI Members About Changes to Requirements for Traveling from the U.S. With Firearms/Ammunition


Safari Club International has received information about changes in the requirements for hunters who wish to export/bring their firearms and ammunition with them when they travel to hunt outside the United States. SCI has been researching these new requirements in order to understand exactly why these changes are going into effect and what will be required of our members who wish to travel with their firearms and ammunition to hunt in other countries. A great deal of confusion still remains, but we are attempting to present members with some of the questions being raised and the answers we have discovered so far. Please note that the information below is not intended to serve as legal advice. Before traveling, SCI members are advised to consult directly with U.S. Customs and Border Protection and/or their own legal counsel:

Q: What is now required of a hunter who wishes to export/bring his or her firearms/ammunition to hunt outside the U.S.?
A. If a hunter wishes to temporarily export three or fewer non-automatic firearms from the United States and 1000 or fewer cartridges -- at the time of his/her departure from the U.S., he or she must declare the articles to a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officer, present the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) obtained from the submission of the Electronic Export Information in the Automated Export System (AES) and present the firearms and/or cartridges for a visual inspection to the CBP officer at the port of departure from the United States.

The firearms and ammunition to be exported must be with the individual’s accompanied or unaccompanied (checked) baggage or effects.

The owner must declare that the firearms and/or ammunition to be exported are for his/her exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership. The owner must state that it is his/her intent to return with the firearms/ammunition on his/her return to the United States.

See 22 C.F.R. §123.17

Q. Which of these requirements are new?
A. Firearm/ammunition owners are newly being required to submit Electronic Export Information (EEI) in the Automated Export System (AES) to obtain an Internal Transaction Number (ITN).

The AES is a joint venture between CBP, the Foreign Trade Division of the Bureau of the Census (under the Department of Commerce), the Bureau of Industry and Security (under Commerce), the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (under the Department of State), other Federal agencies, and the export trade community.

Q. How are the new export requirements different than what was previously required?
A. For many years, the State Department’s International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR) have allowed Americans to temporarily export up to three non-automatic firearms and up to 1,000 rounds of ammunition without a license, as long as the firearms were declared and presented to a CBP officer (also known as a Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) license exemption). Previously, the owner of the firearms/ammunition would bring the firearms/ammunition to a CBP office at some point before the trip and would complete Customs Form 4457—a form that can be completed for any personal property and that is normally used to prove that the traveler owned the property before going abroad. The form protects a traveler from paying import duties on items already owned. The owner of the firearms/ammunition would retain the form and present it upon reentry if needed. Form 4457 will no longer satisfy the requirements for bringing firearms/ammunition out of the country.

Additional information about the new requirements can be obtained from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement website: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

Q. Why is this change going into effect now?
A. These new requirements became part of regulations that went into effect in 2012. For reasons unknown at this time, the government has only recently decided to implement them.

Q. When do these changes go into effect?
A. While we do not know for certain, some sources indicate that these changes have already gone into effect. Other sources state that the changes will be imposed on April 3, 2015. Regardless, it appears that CBP may not actually be ready to fully implement these changes. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) may not be able to require individuals to use the AES system because the system requires entry of an Employer Identification Number (EIN). EINs are normally only obtained by businesses, and the Internal Revenue Service says they should only be used for tax purposes. Because individuals do not generally possess EINs, it may not be possible for ICE to require hunters to utilize them for firearms exportation purposes. SCI is currently investigating this question.

SCI has learned from the National Rifle Association that CBP has instituted a temporary plan for those who wish to export their firearms and who are either unaware of the new requirements or are unable to use the AES system. We have been told that, under the temporary plan, CBP officers at airports can manually enter identifying information about the traveler/exporter and his/her firearms. SCI is attempting to verify this information. We do not know how long this temporary plan may be in effect. We also do not know what system will be available for those who are leaving the U.S. by means other than airports (e.g., driving to Canada).

Q. What is SCI doing to address these changes?
A. Currently, SCI is gathering information to try to better inform our members about what they will need to do to ensure that they are complying the new requirements. At the same time, we will be working on ways to delay the implementation of the requirements until our members have a better understanding of how to comply. We are also working with our partners in the hunting and recreational shooting communities to challenge the implementation of these requirements. We will continue to update you as we obtain additional information.

I leave for Zim next Sunday, March 29. I have "fresh" 4457's for the two rifles I want to take. So far, I can't get my local Customs office or Delta either one to answer the phone to ask them if I am going to encounter any problems. Any advice?

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

I've also contacted by phone and email with my local and very supportive C&BP officer here in Tampa and provided her with the same info as well as the direct telephone contact info the AK C&BP Station Chief Frostbit gave me.

Remain polite but do not give them forever to complete the task of figuring out how to generate an ITN for you. They have the ability right in front on them in their export unit computer system.

I'm gone in 24 hours so I may not see your result but please put the conclusion up here for everyone. That back door may well be the solution until the NRA solves this problem for good.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by drj:
I leave for Zim next Sunday, March 29. I have "fresh" 4457's for the two rifles I want to take. So far, I can't get my local Customs office or Delta either one to answer the phone to ask them if I am going to encounter any problems. Any advice?

Yes, this thread is full of advice. Get cracking. Get a hunan on the phone with at least one of your Senators or Representatives. Tell them how the clock is ticking for you.

Be persistent with the C&BP. If it were me and I could not get one on the phone for what ever reason and their office wasn't a plane trip away I would be there in person. Have your rifles, 4457's, passport,and itinerary with you.

Maybe it looked like this was easy peasy for me but I spent about 10 hours on the phone the first day to include three C&BP offices in three cities and 8 different Officers, about 6 hours the second day, and had the "solution", if that is what the yellow sticky is, at the close of that second day.

It's not easy but it's doable.

Cheers
Jim

drj:

I wouldn't spend time trying to call Delta. I'd concentrate on your closest C&BP office and keep calling until you get through.

Once you get through you need to get to the person or department that handles "Exports".

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
drj:

I wouldn't spend time trying to call Delta.

+1

Just my 10 cents.
Who are these people in this so called government and their agencies?
Are we becoming like North and South when it comes to people and Government?

Good luck with the AES system. It is so bug ridden and complicated as to be virtually unusable. After you register you will get e-mails weekly for the rest of your life telling you how to resolve fatal errors.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
Good luck with the AES system. It is so bug ridden and complicated as to be virtually unusable. ...

Probably done by the same contractor that did the Obamacare web-site?

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
Good luck with the AES system. It is so bug ridden and complicated as to be virtually unusable.

My guess is that this was intentional. Just guessing

The AES system was designed for commercial exporters. It was never designed for use by the average traveling hunter.

My customs broker has offered to process this for me & that looks like the way I will go unless this whole mess can be killed or a more reasonable system can be implemented. BTW, my broker will charge $75 & you will receive a copy of something more official than a "post-it" note with a number. If you want his contact PM me.

I called and wrote my congress woman and my senator and urged my friends to do the same. This law is about control. I plan on calling everyday till!!!!!

I guess gifting your rifle to the PH is now off the cards!!

"The owner must declare that the firearms and/or ammunition to be exported are for his/her exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership. The owner must state that it is his/her intent to return with the firearms/ammunition on his/her return to the United States. "