quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
So now I am wondering if I can use my current EIN number - the one that belongs to the corporation that I alone own or will it have to be for a sole proprietorship..

If you want your corporation to act as your "agent" and establish an account in its name (like Travel With Guns and Safari Specialty Importers are apparently doing) and then get the ITN number on your behalf, that would probably work. I recall reading in the rules/regulations that accounts can be established by importers/exporters - freight forwarders, so that they could process exemptions for their clients/customers. As to getting a sole proprietor EIN number from the IRS, you can get it online in real time from the IRS. It takes all of 3 - 4 minutes. Here is the link:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/...ber-%28EIN%29-Online

I can see trouble down the road - an EIN is an Employer Identification Number - it goes on my corp tax return and W9s - I can see the IRS comign back to "employers" that have idle EIN numbers.. I would not want one if I did not need one...

If traveling to Africa this year look at the countries that you will not get issued a permit for.

You will find Zimbabwe in this list.

I get the feeling I may be hunting ele in Zim with the PH's gun this year

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
If traveling to Africa this year look at the countries that you will not get issued a permit for.

You will find Zimbabwe in this list.

What list? Link please.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell ... I can see the IRS comign back to "employers" that have idle EIN numbers.. I would not want one if I did not need one...

I have had an "idle EIN number" used in a sole proprietorship business for over 25 years and the IRS has never said a word. However, to be on the safe side, your CPA might want you to file a "no activity return" using that EIN, just to establish that no income has been generated under that number and that you have no employees. The point is: If you want to establish an account in your own name, for your personal use, the asinine rules and regulations say you need an EIN and not a SS#. As I have mentioned in my previous posts, the instructions specifically tell individuals who want to establish a personal account, that they have to get an EIN from the IRS and to apply as a sole proprietor in order to get it. And, as I have also mentioned (and linked to) the bureaucrats even have a PDF form for those of you who (incorrectly) use your SS#. That form must be faxed back with the "required" EIN in order to establish the account.

Obviously, THE WHOLE THING SUCKS! Hoop after Hoop to jump through. However, unless we get lucky and this thing is stopped in its tracks, your options are limited: (1) Don't travel with guns; (2) Hire some outfit, like Travel With Guns, or some import/export company, to get the ITN number for you, and pay them for the service; or (3) Swallow Hard, Smile, Bend Over And Grab Your Ankles, Jump Through The Hoops, and get your personal account so you can get the magic ITN on your own, whenever you need it.

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell ... I can see the IRS comign back to "employers" that have idle EIN numbers.. I would not want one if I did not need one...

I have had an "idle EIN number" used in a sole proprietorship business for over 25 years and the IRS has never said a word. However, to be on the safe side, your CPA might want you to file a "no activity return" using that EIN, just to establish that no income has been generated under that number and that you have no employees. The point is: If you want to establish an account in your own name, for your personal use, the asinine rules and regulations say you need an EIN and not a SS#. As I have mentioned in my previous posts, the instructions specifically tell individuals who want to establish a personal account, that they have to get an EIN from the IRS and to apply as a sole proprietor in order to get it. And, as I have also mentioned (and linked to) the bureaucrats even have a PDF form for those of you who (incorrectly) use your SS#. That form must be faxed back with the "required" EIN in order to establish the account.

Obviously, THE WHOLE THING SUCKS! Hoop after Hoop to jump through. However, unless we get lucky and this thing stopped in its tracks, your options are limited: (1) Don't travel with guns; (2) Hire some outfit, like Travel With Guns, or some import/export company, to get the ITN number for you, and pay them for the service; or (3) Swallow Hard, Smile, Bend Over And Grab Your Ankles, Jump Through The Hoops, and get your personal account so you can get the magic ITN on your own, whenever you need it.

Or #4 get your ITN directly from Customs and Border Protection as I did today.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit: ... What list? Link please.

Here it is:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/te...22.1.126_11&rgn=div8

See subparagraph (s). And, you are going to have to pay special attention to the term "defense articles" as used in the above CFR. The term is defined here:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/re....1.121#se22.1.121_11

See: Category I-Firearms: (a) Nonautomatic and semiautomatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive.

In plain English: for purposes of the above regulations a hunting rifle would be considered a "defense article" that technically isn't supposed to be exported to Zimbabwe, unless a license or special approval is granted on a case-by-case basis.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit: ...
Or #4 get your ITN directly from Customs and Border Protection as I did today.

You had some "juice" and got lucky. I don't see what happened in your case to be "standard operating procedure" if this POS becomes reality.

Frostbit - would you please rerun the process by us again.

You said that the departure had to be in " no less than 8 hours" correct?

So if I was leaving June 2015, then I could go to CBP say in April , as I have to anyway and get new 4457's, and take my passport and itinerary from my travel agent and just get it all in that pass correct?

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
Frostbit - would you please rerun the process by us again.

You said that the departure had to be in " no less than 8 hours" correct?

So if I was leaving June 2015, then I could go to CBP say in April , as I have to anyway and get new 4457's, and take my passport and itinerary from my travel agent and just get it all in that pass correct?

Rifles, 4457's, passport, and itinerary. Just make sure you call them first, ask for a Supervisor or Chief and let them know you need help getting the ITN. They may or may not know how. Mine just figured it out.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit: ...
Or #4 get your ITN directly from Customs and Border Protection as I did today.

You had some "juice" and got lucky. I don't see what happened in your case to be "standard operating procedure" if this POS becomes reality.

Good luck then!! I don't any more "juice" than anyone else. I made some calls. Try it.

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit: ... What list? Link please.

Here it is:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/te...22.1.126_11&rgn=div8

See subparagraph (s). And, you are going to have to pay special attention to the term "defense articles" as used in the above CFR. The term is defined here:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/re....1.121#se22.1.121_11

See: Category I-Firearms: (a) Nonautomatic and semiautomatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive.

In plain English: for purposes of the above regulations a hunting rifle would be considered a "defense article" that technically isn't supposed to be exported to Zimbabwe, unless a license or special approval is granted on a case-by-case basis.

I'm not "exporting" any rifles to Zim. I'm traveling there with rifles and returning with them. C&BP had my itinerary and gave me my ITN. I was told I must return with them and that would be verified on my return as documented on their website under my ITN

Thanks for posting the link though.

They also asked me the value of the firearms for some reason and it was imputed in their system. The officer about shit when I gave them a figure on the double. "And you're taking it to Africa?"

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
Frostbit - would you please rerun the process by us again.

You said that the departure had to be in " no less than 8 hours" correct?

So if I was leaving June 2015, then I could go to CBP say in April , as I have to anyway and get new 4457's, and take my passport and itinerary from my travel agent and just get it all in that pass correct?

I didn't notice you were from Houston. I would hunt down Officer Mussleman. He seemed the most knowledgable on the phone. He did not know about the ITN though. He could call Chief Fernandez in Anchorage and she could walk him though it.

I will be returning through Houston so that's why I ended up talking with Officer Mussleman early on.


Cheers
Jim

What is the ITN?

This is just a guess, but I expect the Repub Prez will have to hire about fifty-thousand new employees the first sixty days in office in 2017 just to sort thru the various bureaucracies and fire about thirty-percent of them.

The good news, every anti-Constitutional appointee could be gone by end of 2017.

Everyone in F&WS, ATF (if it still exists) the State Dept, and about 90% of the management staff of the rest of them. Start with the NHSTA and the FCC...

jmho,

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
What is the ITN?

Its the final number you need for both Customs and Border Protection and for TSA.

Basically the bowl of cheese at the end of the maze.

Cheers
Jim

Holy Moly what a $hit storm! You guys better hope you never have to deal with African burocracy....it makes all this look like a piece of cake!

Thank you for your reply and for your efforts too Frostbit.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
Thank you for your reply and for your efforts too Frostbit.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
Thank you for your reply and for your efforts too Frostbit.

I'll second that. Thanks Jim

Guys, as ftbt accurately stated I may have just lucked out. Don't assume what is did is the procedure. I simply shared the steps that lead me to the bowl of cheese.

I have not relented with the Politicos though. I sent an image of the "official" yellow sticky to the Deputy Director that has been most helpful in Representative Young's office at her request. My sense is she did not enjoy the agency two step she received.

Perhaps that is the "juice" ftbt referred to, I really don't know.

Remember I leave Tuesday March 24th. None of this matters till then. Presuming I have wifi in Dubai (wow that rolls off the tongue) I will post up my experience in Seattle.

The Houston return will not be until May 14th. I suspect by then things will be different but I will resurrect this thread and report the status of my return.

Cheers
Jim

I contacted a VP of SCI today and informed him of the situation. I imagine we will see some movement from SCI on this shortly.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
What is the ITN?

ITN

How's that for alphabet soup?

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
I contacted a VP of SCI today and informed him of the situation. I imagine we will see some movement from SCI on this shortly.

Brett

You must have had a local Alaskan member bitch you out on the phone, eh Prez?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
I contacted a VP of SCI today and informed him of the situation. I imagine we will see some movement from SCI on this shortly.

Brett

You must have had a local Alaskan member bitch you out on the phone, eh Prez?

Something like that grandpa Jim!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
On a recent Safaris in RSA, my PH reported that ~1/3rd of clients now rent firearms in RSA for hunting, because of the irritating hassle of taking a personal firearm from the USA.

This latest Obama fiat will further increase the number of hunting clients that rent.

Moreover, this disturbing trend will especially decrease the value of our Africa big-bore hunting rifles.

Interesting point........

Will be traveling to Botswana in June so just did the first step of applying for an EIN as a sole proprietor. Pretty straight forward online and takes less than 5 minutes and you have your EIN.

Probably worth doing well before planned departure as the IRS has a note that it takes approximately two weeks for the number to be uploaded into their database which I'm assuming is what CBP will access to verify the EIN.

Hopefully the rest of this mess will get sorted out so this whole exercise becomes a moot point as the physical logistics of CBP inspections could make the whole process unworkable.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit ...
I'm not "exporting" any rifles to Zim. I'm traveling there with rifles and returning with them ...

While that is true ... that is not how the government looks at it. You are using a layman's definition of "export" ... not the bureaucratic definition. CFR Section 123.5 deals with the "temporary export" of "defense articles"(remember those magic words from the previous CFR that I gave to you) ... and it goes on to state that a license for such articles will only be valid "if the article
will be exported for a period of less than 4 years and will be returned to the United States ..."

See: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/re...r=PART#se22.1.123_15

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter: ... The good news, every anti-Constitutional appointee could be gone by end of 2017 ...

Music to my ears. May your words be prophecy, sir.

Just wanted to post for general info to the forum my findings over the past couple days of phone calls and visits to my local US Customs Office in Tampa.

As I stated earlier, I did create an account in AESDirect utilizing my SS#. As stated earlier by another member, even though the system accepted it and I successfully opened the account, completed the questions etc, I did call and confirm that SS# can not be used and I had them delete my account.

Several phone called to various areas within the AESDirect area (800 549 0595) with the one just now this morning, Option 3 for Regulatory Questions, and talked to Heather (she gave me permission to post her name), specifically regarding the use of an EIN number to open and AESDirect account and also filing for someone else as is being offered by several members here.

I’ll start with the process of obtaining an EIN. Here is potential snag #1. IRS Pub EIN

“Purpose of an Employer Identification Number
Employer Identification Numbers are issued for the purpose of tax administration and are not intended for participation in any other activities (e.g., tax lien auction or sales, lotteries, etc.)”

Per a phone call I had to the IRS, after several attempts and several HOURS on hold I was told by the IRS Agent I spoke to (didn’t get a name or badge #) said specifically the above info is in fact true. I described for her where the requirement was coming from and for the basic purpose, obtaining a temporary export permit, and she restated the same info above.

I explained this to Heather on the phone this morning and she said “they were working on this” to get the IRS to change their regulations. So, IF a person does spend the 5 min to get an EIN on-line for this purpose is it legal or not? She said according to their office (US Census Bureau) it is legal and they would not report it to the IRS, but she couldn’t specifically answer for the IRS. Don't personally like that one bit.

I asked her if she understood the tax implications of someone obtaining an EIN? She said not really. Here is the IRS Guidance: IRS Pub If you read down the page it states pretty clearly that if you get an EIN you are required to file a 1040 c or cz. As I understand it, not filing or continuing to carry an EIN could possibly put you in violation of IRS tax laws. Perhaps any CPA members here can clarify this better.

Next jewel I asked Heather was about “is it legal for someone who isn’t a licensed customs broker or freight forwarder, like a travel agent, to open an account in AESDirect and enter other peoples firearm information and give them an ITN.” She said, “YES”. However, anyone can open an AESDirect account and enter someone else’s information but, the person entering the information for the other person needs to have a signed letter of authorization or power of attorney AND THE OTHER PERSON’S EIN. The other person’s SS# is NOT AUTHORIZED. In fact, no SS# are permitted in AESDirect – period.

I did have a very good face to face meeting with the US Customs Office at the Tampa Airport yesterday. As others here have reported, they had not heard of this “new” requirement – ITN etc. Had they also not heard about being able to enter the info into a system they have, as detailed by Frostbit. Again no. All three of the agents where very friendly and helpful, just not up on the current situation. The last officer I spoke to was VERY interested in getting the sorted out. Both she and her husband are avid gun enthusiasts/hunters and even did a hunting trip to Zimbabwe a couple of years ago and are looking to go back to Africa again!!! She took my name and phone number and promised she would definitely dig into this and get back to me.

On another note, I actually received a personal letter via email from one of my Congressman the very next day after I emailed his office. The most surprising thing is it wasn’t the standard form letter. It was actually personalized and directly addressed the issues/concerns I had raised. I also followed up with his office regarding updated info I had discovered this week since my original email posted here.

Note to all, I strongly believe this is more than just being about rolling over and being “compliant” – I even noticed that when you complete the info in AESDirect you have to hit the “Submit” button!

This is about the slow and ever increasing encroachment of our 2A rights – as well as others, and needs to be civilly and forcefully pushed back against. For all those who are 2A supporters, firearms owners and hunters or competitive shooters who voted for a Democrat or even a Rhino Republican and claimed/proclaimed “oh they will never do anything like that” I say…GFY!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
What is the ITN?

ITN

How's that for alphabet soup?

Thanks Jim...

What is an Internal Transaction Number (ITN)?

The Internal Transaction Number (ITN) is the AES generated number assigned to a shipment confirming that the EEI was accepted and is on file in the AES.

We have got to work our butts off to rid ourselves of democratic presidents - they're dictators at heart who change the law at their whim.

We hunters are not importing or exporting guns, anymore than we're importing or exporting the hunting clothes on our back...what passive aggressive bullshit.

As most probably know a great number of the riflescopes and other optics in common use are considered "restricted items" and cannot be exported.

I see a future if these Customs inspections go into force where they'll start banning a lot of optics from leaving regardless of whether you intend to bring them back or not.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Just wanted to post for general info to the forum my findings over the past couple days of phone calls and visits to my local US Customs Office in Tampa.

As I stated earlier, I did create an account in AESDirect utilizing my SS#. As stated earlier by another member, even though the system accepted it and I successfully opened the account, completed the questions etc, I did call and confirm that SS# can not be used and I had them delete my account.

Several phone called to various areas within the AESDirect area (800 549 0595) with the one just now this morning, Option 3 for Regulatory Questions, and talked to Heather (she gave me permission to post her name), specifically regarding the use of an EIN number to open and AESDirect account and also filing for someone else as is being offered by several members here.

I’ll start with the process of obtaining an EIN. Here is potential snag #1. IRS Pub EIN

“Purpose of an Employer Identification Number
Employer Identification Numbers are issued for the purpose of tax administration and are not intended for participation in any other activities (e.g., tax lien auction or sales, lotteries, etc.)”

Per a phone call I had to the IRS, after several attempts and several HOURS on hold I was told by the IRS Agent I spoke to (didn’t get a name or badge #) said specifically the above info is in fact true. I described for her where the requirement was coming from and for the basic purpose, obtaining a temporary export permit, and she restated the same info above.

I explained this to Heather on the phone this morning and she said “they were working on this” to get the IRS to change their regulations. So, IF a person does spend the 5 min to get an EIN on-line for this purpose is it legal or not? She said according to their office (US Census Bureau) it is legal and they would not report it to the IRS, but she couldn’t specifically answer for the IRS. Don't personally like that one bit.

I asked her if she understood the tax implications of someone obtaining an EIN? She said not really. Here is the IRS Guidance: IRS Pub If you read down the page it states pretty clearly that if you get an EIN you are required to file a 1040 c or cz. As I understand it, not filing or continuing to carry an EIN could possibly put you in violation of IRS tax laws. Perhaps any CPA members here can clarify this better.

Next jewel I asked Heather was about “is it legal for someone who isn’t a licensed customs broker or freight forwarder, like a travel agent, to open an account in AESDirect and enter other peoples firearm information and give them an ITN.” She said, “YES”. However, anyone can open an AESDirect account and enter someone else’s information but, the person entering the information for the other person needs to have a signed letter of authorization or power of attorney AND THE OTHER PERSON’S EIN. The other person’s SS# is NOT AUTHORIZED. In fact, no SS# are permitted in AESDirect – period.

I did have a very good face to face meeting with the US Customs Office at the Tampa Airport yesterday. As others here have reported, they had not heard of this “new” requirement – ITN etc. Had they also not heard about being able to enter the info into a system they have, as detailed by Frostbit. Again no. All three of the agents where very friendly and helpful, just not up on the current situation. The last officer I spoke to was VERY interested in getting the sorted out. Both she and her husband are avid gun enthusiasts/hunters and even did a hunting trip to Zimbabwe a couple of years ago and are looking to go back to Africa again!!! She took my name and phone number and promised she would definitely dig into this and get back to me.

On another note, I actually received a personal letter via email from one of my Congressman the very next day after I emailed his office. The most surprising thing is it wasn’t the standard form letter. It was actually personalized and directly addressed the issues/concerns I had raised. I also followed up with his office regarding updated info I had discovered this week since my original email posted here.

Note to all, I strongly believe this is more than just being about rolling over and being “compliant” – I even noticed that when you complete the info in AESDirect you have to hit the “Submit” button! ...

How do you spell, "C L U S T E R F # @ K"!

O...b...a...m...a
and
H...o...l...d...e...r

I would be concerned about registering an EIN and not filing a return every year.. As a business owner with an EIN I can tell you - that numbmer is the equivalent of an SSAN for a business entity and is referenced by both STATE and FEDERAL agencies for all kinds of reporting - Labor, Health 7 Welfware,

Scott:

Concur 100%. I've also previously held an EIN for a "Sole Proprietorship" and also later a different one for an "S-Corp".

Trying to explain that connection to the folks at AESDirect, including supervisory personnel, just doesn't connect with them on any level.

In the conversation I had this morning with Heather from AESDirect's Legal department, she clearly stated that US Census and therefore AESDirect doesn't forward/report info the IRS. Yesterday, I was talking to an AESDirect Supervisor (Douglas/Dannel, can't remember for sure) he specifically stated that US Census in fact is allowed to and DOES exchange data to the IRS, ICE, Customs and he rattled off a few others.

I have spoken to my tax attorney about the EIN situation. Specifically I was concerned with requesting one with no intent of opening a business but still having to file a return. The answer was that if there's no business to report, then there's no need to file the return. Having said that, he said that it still would not be a bad idea to file the return which would basically say there's nothing to report. So the concern over this is somewhat valid, but perhaps not something to be too alarmed over. However, it still is a PITA.

Following Frostbit's lead, I have been on the phone today with Representative Matt Salmon who is my congressman. I spoke to a gent there who after getting a brief description of this issue was quite sympathetic. After my first phone call, I got back into this thread and found Frostbit's post where he mentioned his rep, Don Young. So I got back on the phone to Rep Salmon's office to pass along Don Young's name. The gent there was happy to have that name and plans to contact Rep Young's office. He also told me they had a letter in the work's to ICE regarding the matter.

I would encourage you to contact your congressman regarding the problem and pass along the names of Young and Salmon. The more congressman we get on board and working together on this, the more likely it would seem we get some attention to this problem.

7MM:

Great to hear from a tax pro. Question if I may..did you ask him his opinion on the correctness/legality of obtaining an EIN for a non-IRS tax related matter?

I guarantee you they exchange info back and forth - the only common denominator for my S-Corp is the EIN.. The State of Ohio references it when the Unemployment Office auditor comes a knockin for a "periodic review" aka "period harassment"..

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
7MM:

Great to hear from a tax pro. Question if I may..did you ask him his opinion on the correctness/legality of obtaining an EIN for a non-IRS tax related matter?

The question I posed to him did not reference this. I only asked if by virtue of having an EIN number that was requested under the Sole Proprietor heading would that mean you must file a tax return? And if you didn't, would that trigger an audit?

The answer again was no. Sorry didn't think about how you are, valid question I'd say.