quote:

Originally posted by TJH:
None of the airports around here have a customs office. How do we get our guns and paperwork checked by customs the day of our flight before checking them in? Are we not going to be able to check our gun cases through to the final destination? It looks like they will have to be checked to an airport with a customs office and then picked up and taken to customs and then TSA and be rechecked. I have not received an answer from customs about this.

Good observation but even that idea is problematic. In Atlanta CBP is past security and guess what isn't going past security in your possession? Hard to take that rifle to them when you had to check it as baggage before proceeding to customs. Maybe other airports with major international departures would be easier to access. I agree that getting this stopped is the way to go and not trying to figure out a way to make it work.

Don

I have emailed my congress critters as well.
SCI needs to be all over this. Anyone hear anything on that front?

X2

quote:

Originally posted by Nitro Express:

I wonder how many of our members of congress have ever hunted outside the U.S? Or hunted at all, for that matter?

ALASKA
Senator Lisa Murkowski and Senator Dan Sullivan both hunt.

Representative Don Young hunts internationally and his office immediately started helping me with the first phone call.

If anyone is ever at the capital you need to visit Representatives Young's office. It's the dead head tour. He's not ashamed of being a hunter or having taxidermy.

Cheers
Jim

Wrote to my congressman - second time ever. Last time was to tell him Uncle Sam should not default on his debt and he actually got back to me.

I still cannot understand these rules. I think hunting with a ruger 375 is going to be my norm. If customs want to seize the gun - let them have a $599 rifle.

Mike

Next thing you know, if your paperwork doesn't jive, you'll be branded as an international illegal arms dealer and thrown in Leavenworth for some nice mandatory sentence for good measure.
This is all on the shoulders of current commie administration, all these departments simply have green light to go after all gun owner one little sneaky step at the time
I'm getting on bandwagon and calling my reps

Six Senators notified. Could not get past the zip code identifier on the Congress side.

Keith

There are many possible pitfalls here. For example, is it also possible that an individual who does this for himself, or someone who sets up to do AES entries for others as well, might be required to "register" as an exporter of U.S. Munitions List articles with the State Department to the tune of about $2500 a year? I could see this being added as an "interpretation" at some point.

Not about this per se, but I well remember being one of the first Americans sent in to Russia in a 1981 when the embargo was lifted and they wanted oil and gas guys. Our company picked a young guy to go - me.

Having never seen any Russia before as most of us back then, I left with the idea that these people have to stand in line for everything, and further that their life is controlled by permits and government paperwork. For instance, the Russian staff there had absolutely no idea that I could get on any airplane I wanted to.

Now I have seen that this has become us in the USA.

I am going to do what they require as we all are. But it may very well be my last time.

Or who know, they could make it better. My wifes and I last trip though the airport was probably the best ever. From parking the car to the gate wasnt 30 minutes as we had the TSA pass and the Premier line too.

So it is possible, but I am not counting on it. Nor I am expecting it to be better.

FROSTBIT-
In Seattle, the terminal Customs office is in the South Terminal where International Flights area is located. This is behind Security....can't take guns there!
Now, there is also a Customs office at the North end of the Airport in the Cargo area. What you would have to do is check your rifles to SeaTac, come out to Baggage Claim and pick them up. Have your friend take you to Customs at the North End of airport for the Step required....or take a taxi, then return and recheck your rifles with Departing airlines and go to TSA for another Check.
This is a Goat Rope but it is possible.
If your friend or Baxter B can't pick you up to do this, please PM me and I will personally come up to do this with you.
I go into that Customs office to clear my inbound trophies. They are nice and friendly, efficient and of few words!!
Seems to me if you are going out of Anchorage, you might be able to do this step there and check bags through??
Wishing you well on your trip and Have an EXCELLENT HUNT....you two deserve it!!
Cheers,

I'm with Skyline on this, we have to fight back or what is the next line in the sand? Saying, I'll just use a loaner gun doesn't fix the problem, it only allows them to go to the next level. Can you imagine state to state transfer requirements in the future?
Think about all the guys going to Canada to hunt this fall(and spring bear hunters) and as I mentioned earlier, us Mexico hunters. As I read it, international means Canada and Mexico which amounts to a border crossing for me. The US Customs guys gave me more grief last season than the Cartels!
This BS needs to be nipped in the bud before it goes into affect!!

Guys,

I talked to Christy with Gracy Travel yesterday. She handles everything gun related for Gracy. She's been on this since day before yesterday to find out exactly how this effects hunters traveling internationally and what hoops we'll need to jump through. I'll share what I find out when I know something specific.

Mark

We've all mentioned and requested that the NRA and SCI needs to become and does become involved and get into the act on this. And we always do. However, for you DSC members, the rubber now meets the road for you boys and girls as well. You need to contact and get on the leadership at DSC and have them join in the fight. The more we have fighting this and the ongoing attempts at a 5.56/223 ammo ban, the better. Step up DSC!

On AfricaHunting.com this issue is also being discussed. If you go to page 7 of the discussion, post number 126, apparently Coppersmith Logistics can help the hunter out with the AESDirect part of this fiasco.

Phone # : 310-607-800, cost is $75

Thread Link: http://www.africahunting.com/t...rm-4457.21576/page-7

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/te...=div5#se22.1.123_117


Spoke to a gentleman from the Government and he said the rule has been there for some time but never implemented. See 123.17 subsection C,1,2,3,in the attached link.

He also said a person could do it for their clients upon passing the test and receiving their AESDirect Account Authorization. I passed the quiz and I am sure whatever travel agent you use will be able to complete the form for you.

The form is not the issue.. The issue is:

(1) The person declares the articles to a CBP officer upon each departure from the United States, presents the Internal Transaction Number from submission of the Electronic Export Information in the Automated Export System per §123.22 of this subchapter, and the articles are presented to the CBP officer for inspection.

Present where?????

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:
On AfricaHunting.com this issue is also being discussed. If you go to page 7 of the discussion, post number 126, apparently Coppersmith Logistics can help the hunter out with the AESDirect part of this fiasco.

Phone # : 310-607-800, cost is $75

Thread Link: http://www.africahunting.com/t...rm-4457.21576/page-7

I predicted that on this thread yesterday! Did not take them long to figure away to grab $75.00!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
FROSTBIT-
In Seattle, the terminal Customs office is in the South Terminal where International Flights area is located. This is behind Security....can't take guns there!
Now, there is also a Customs office at the North end of the Airport in the Cargo area. What you would have to do is check your rifles to SeaTac, come out to Baggage Claim and pick them up. Have your friend take you to Customs at the North End of airport for the Step required....or take a taxi, then return and recheck your rifles with Departing airlines and go to TSA for another Check.
This is a Goat Rope but it is possible.
If your friend or Baxter B can't pick you up to do this, please PM me and I will personally come up to do this with you.
I go into that Customs office to clear my inbound trophies. They are nice and friendly, efficient and of few words!!
Seems to me if you are going out of Anchorage, you might be able to do this step there and check bags through??
Wishing you well on your trip and Have an EXCELLENT HUNT....you two deserve it!!
Cheers,

Thank you Sir,

That's a kind offer. You do check bags all the way through up here in Anchorage but the Airlines in Seattle all have their own firearm forms and check serial number so they have to go find the bags. The only way to get you bags checked to Seattle only and take possession is to buy a separate ticket, which in my case using miles is not possible.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

posted 20 March 2015 00:09
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/te...=div5#se22.1.123_117


Spoke to a gentleman from the Government and he said the rule has been there for some time but never implemented. See 123.17 subsection C,1,2,3,in the attached link.

He also said a person could do it for their clients upon passing the test and receiving their AESDirect Account Authorization. I passed the quiz and I am sure whatever travel agent you use will be able to complete the form for you.
Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

Kathi, this is NOT the problem....this is another INVASION of our Constitutional Rights under the Second Amendment....this is REGISTRATION!! It also stinks of the IMPLEMENTATION of the UN Small Arms Treaty without presentation and RATIFICATION of the SENATE....and to date NO TREATY has ever been ratified by the US Senate.
This MUST BE STOPPED not complied with like a bunch of SHEEP!!
Obama wants this Ratified and Kerry has ALREADY signed it.....other countries have implemented in December 2014....so far US is NOT PARTY to this Treaty....except for perhaps this Executive Fiat Implementation.
You may quote me in letters to your Senators and Congressman....I have said this already this morning....to my all DECOMACRAT team....who voted against signing the Letter 2 years ago regarding the UN Small Arms Treaty....53-46 was the vote....BEFORE the big WIN Last Election!!

LET's FIGHT not cave in and cooperate!! Coppersmith is clearly being Mercenary!!

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
We've all mentioned and requested that the NRA and SCI needs to become and does become involved and get into the act on this. And we always do. However, for you DSC members, the rubber now meets the road for you boys and girls as well. You need to contact and get on the leadership at DSC and have them join in the fight. The more we have fighting this and the ongoing attempts at a 5.56/223 ammo ban, the better. Step up DSC!

UEG: No need to get on the DSC leadership, DSC does need to be involved and is. We have been involved since this "new" requirement came to light. DSC's Washington lobbyist is working (today)with several members of the house and senate to get to the bottom of this. For those of you that have written or emailed your congressman, you might ask them to relay your concerns to Congressman John "Judge" Carter (R) Texas, who is the Chairman of the Homeland Security Subcommittee on Appropriations and let him know their constituent's concerns. DSC has also been in contact with the NRA on this issue. Hopefully, there is a solution to all of this. I'll try and update as is appropriate.

Karl

Jim,

OK, I see, I thought it was too simple!!

Perhaps you can check with Customs in Anchorage, ie the one in the Cargo area where you can drive up and park....with form in hand go into the office, they will probably stamp it and you are on your way....or they might look at them....they haven't the last 3-4 times when I have had 4457's issued.

I hope you don't have to pay to get the form!!

Good Luck!!

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:
On AfricaHunting.com this issue is also being discussed. If you go to page 7 of the discussion, post number 126, apparently Coppersmith Logistics can help the hunter out with the AESDirect part of this fiasco.
Phone # : 310-607-800, cost is $75

Thread Link: http://www.africahunting.com/t...rm-4457.21576/page-7

I predicted that on this thread yesterday! Did not take them long to figure away to grab $75.00!!!

If they can figure out a way to get the firearms permit from the country where you are taking the firearm, $75.00 might not be a bad deal.

Karl

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
[QUOTE] ... Spoke to a gentleman from the Government and he said the rule has been there for some time but never implemented. See 123.17 subsection C,1,2,3,in the attached link. ...

And I wonder what other little rules and regulations have been hidden away ... like ticking time-bombs ... just waiting to be "implemented"?

Just for the record, wrote both my Senators even if one is on the wrong side of the isle and my Congress person.

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
[QUOTE] ... Spoke to a gentleman from the Government and he said the rule has been there for some time but never implemented. See 123.17 subsection C,1,2,3,in the attached link. ...

And I wonder what other little rules and regulations have been hidden away ... like ticking time-bombs ... just waiting to be "implemented"?

I appears the law has been on the books since 2008 but never enforced. I'm wondering if/why they'll enforce it this time??????

quote:

... I'm wondering if/why they'll enforce it this time??????

Well, remember Comrade Obongo's comment about "Bibles and Guns" ... and his attempted assault rifle ban ... and last week the attempted AR15 ammo ban ... this week it is hunters and sportsmen ... and next week??? Remember, he has a pen and cell phone ... and he intends to use them in the little time he has left.

Great news Karl! Thanks for the update on DSC! There's strength in numbers!

Ok......
Here it is in a nut shell....
Safari Specialty Importers will do the AES electronic filing at no cost for our clients. Once filed, we will give you the appropriate paperwork to keep with your 4475. This will be part of our service that will add to making your hunt stress free.
Happy Hunting and Be Safe!!!!!
Robert

I called both of the senators here in NC today along with our district's representative in the house. I also sent an email to Richard Childress over at Richard Childress Racing since he is on the NRA board now. Richard shoots a Army Navy 470.

Oh God,
Wait until Frostbit hears that Richard Childress shoots an Army Navy too.

quote:

Originally posted by Dog Man:
Oh God,
Wait until Frostbit hears that Richard Childress shoots an Army Navy too.

A good man indeed!!

OK folks I'm a bit worn out but here's your update and fix.

You need an ITN Number to depart and return. Initially the Customs and Border Protections folks were friendly and clueless about this procedure. I awoke the Dragon though and got calls from three Offices today Anchorage, Seattle and Houston. They are now aware of the problem and didn't have a solution until 1300 today.

I was called by the Chief Customs Officer in Anchorage politely asking me to return to the Port with my firearms, 4457's, passport, and itinerary.

They inputted the data into their C&BP system and gave me my ITN Number right then. That's the number you need. Here's the potential problem. They gave me that number hand written on a yellow sticky note. They had no capacity to print it on official letterhead.

That number is needed in three places now. You may need to produce it at departure for C&BP officer (or you may not). It depends on whether the ticking agent is up to speed on this.

You will need to produce it for TSA when you drop off your gun case. Problem is TSA does not have any means to verify the veracity of the number and as I stated mine is on a yellow sticky.

Lastly, you will definitely need that ITN number for C&BP on your return.

My understanding from speaking with Steve Turner is he can help you get the number as well but you will need an IEN from the IRS for that to occur. My understanding is that you have to declare yourself as a sole Proprietor to get it because the IRS system does not have capacity for individuals to get the number.

Since I had no clue how long that would take I opted to go with the C&BP option.

Lastly I asked them about the poor sucker that lives in small town USA without a C&BP office. The answer was unsavory.

You have to obtain this ITN no less than 8 hours before your departure. If you use the C&BP route as I did you have to go in person with the times I outlined above. The suggestion was an itinerary with an over night before international departure to allow greater than 8 hours to get your ITN or a separate trip sometime before your actual trip.

The Chief was sympathetic, helpful, and genuinely appreciative for my help in bringing this matter to light.

I love Alaska!!

On a side note, Representative Don Youngs office has been briefed by me and called me multiple times and had me document this fiasco in text for them. The Deputy Director was not very pleased with the inter-agency runaround she has received and vowed to press the issue and affect some change.

I recommend the rest of you press your Representatives and Senators to also press for change.


Cheers
Jim

NOTHING IN THIS THREAD SHOULD MAKE YOU BELIEVE ALL IS WELL!!!

DO NOT become complacent because of something you read above! This problem has NOT been solved! Not by travel agents nor by outfitters (nor by any individual). They may be able to help but the facts appear to be that YOU will still have to jump through hoops to travel internationally with your firearms.

I have spoken with SCI Tucson and with Steve Turner at Travel With Guns. I also called the Washington, D.C. offices of both SCI and NRA but missed their closing time - will try again tomorrow. One thing I know for certain is that this is a mess and nobody in the federal system knows for sure how this is going to work, or not!

It is pure

It is imperative that each of you continue to call your government representatives as well as SCI, NRA, DSC and any other firearms/hunting organizations. Sit-by and watch while doing nothing pro-active at your peril. The ramifications of allowing this issue to proceed unopposed will be devastating!

Jim;

You are definitely our Guinnea pig!

Your adventure has definitely started.

Can't wait for your first report! I know you & Joyce will have fun!

Best to you both! Darin

quote:

Originally posted by D. Nelson:
Jim;

You are definitely our Guinnea pig!

Your adventure has definitely started.

Can't wait for your first report! I know you & Joyce will have fun!

Best to you both! Darin

Exactly what Customs and Border Protection called me.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
NOTHING IN THIS THREAD SHOULD MAKE YOU BELIEVE ALL IS WELL!!! !

Wow!! I sure didn't see anyone say all is well. There are some businesses scrambling to provide a service for others that they may not be able to do themselves. Things are not well.

I had three goal starting three days ago.

1) Selfishly increase the percentage of my ability to leave and return to the USA with my firearms. That required educating three offices of C&BP that they had a new procedure to deal with while all the while they wanted me to rely on my 4457's alone. Then, with the help of pressure from my Representative they came up with a back door fix.

2) I wanted to share this information so if anyone else had limited time to find a solution they could attempt to duplicate my steps.

3) I got my two senators and one representatives offices involved and attempting to hold this train wreck and trying to attempt to reset the clock back to the old procedure. If that is your goal, and it should be, you all need to do this. Bitching on here does zero good.

Cheers
Jim

So now I am wondering if I can use my current EIN number - the one that belongs to the corporation that I alone own or will it have to be for a sole proprietorship..

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:
More and more guys are going to end up borrowing or renting firearms at the other end, quite a few already do. I am going to look at this option myself when the level of big brother gets to be more than I want to put up with and I know before hand that the operator has decent equipment. I hate doing it but I won't quit hunting elsewhere when money permits as there is only one trip around the block.

I already have clients asking about this, as they are considering it in the future. They get so fed up with paperwork and running into customs types who are increasingly anal retentive.

Every time our governments, at departure or arrival points, institute another layer of bureaucratic bullshit a certain number of hunters drop out of the international hunting crowd.

Slowly but surely they are getting exactly what they want.

More and more people are hiring rifles from their PH. It's not my preferred option, as I'm a gun nut, but at least the standard of loaner rifles appears to improving due to the demand.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
So now I am wondering if I can use my current EIN number - the one that belongs to the corporation that I alone own or will it have to be for a sole proprietorship..

If you want your corporation to act as your "agent" and establish an account in its name (like Travel With Guns and Safari Specialty Importers are apparently doing) and then get the ITN number on your behalf, that would probably work. I recall reading in the rules/regulations that accounts can be established by importers/exporters - freight forwarders, so that they could process exemptions for their clients/customers. As to getting a sole proprietor EIN number from the IRS, you can get it online in real time from the IRS. It takes all of 3 - 4 minutes. Here is the link:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/...ber-%28EIN%29-Online

On a recent Safaris in RSA, my PH reported that ~1/3rd of clients now rent firearms in RSA for hunting, because of the irritating hassle of taking a personal firearm from the USA.

This latest Obama fiat will further increase the number of hunting clients that rent.

Moreover, this disturbing trend will especially decrease the value of our Africa big-bore hunting rifles.