Scott:

Personally, I can kind of see how the common thread there is your EIN and their audit/reviews are related to the business and tax issues.

How is there a tax related connection to an EIN being requested and utilized for the sole purpose of obtaining an approval to temporarily export personally and legally owned firearms for a purely recreational/vacation/competitive shooting activity?

Here is where this really gets troubling. Let's "presume" we end up having to comply with obtaining an EIN. That EIN is directly tied to our SS#. Now we use that EIN to comply with the temp export permit requirement. Contained in the temp export permit info is our names, addresses, dates of departure, airline, serial number of each firearm and it's value.

Now it is only three firearm on any given trip, next trip could be three different and the next trip three more different. Over time the Feds build up a database record of what you own and where you live.

Now IF that info is in fact shared with IRS and they happen to have someway to cross that info against your tax records and they even SUSPECT you are "living above your means" as indicated from your tax records...do you think that could trigger any bells? Is is also possible they could hold the fact that we obtained an EIN for an unauthorized purpose over our heads etc?

And what if you don't file an annual 1040c under that EIN and it goes dormant or is automatically deleted at a period of time and is in fact no longer valid. You then try to use an invalid EIN...

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts.

Please understand, I am purposefully, trying to pick these requirements apart for a reason. IF any of us that are calling and emailing our elected officials and they contact us back we can all be armed with info or at least questions they need to ask the agencies involved.

The other reason is IF one of us unfortunately gets hung-up going out or coming back because the particular agent(s) we have to deal with don't know up from down, we can have a few rounds in our knowledge pocket to defend ourselves.

Pretty damn scary isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts.

And that is why a fix will occur with time. At the risk of getting flamed here I will post something I previously decided not to.

The Customs & Border Patrol folks I talked to in three different States and Cities to a person were polite and more than one shared they felt blind sided by this. The expression was they as a Federal Agency were tired of the overreach occurring.

Folks, call me a Pollyanna if you wish but even those working in Government are getting tired of this.

Push back is needed. Do you job and contact your Senators and Representatives now, even if you are not going abroad anytime soon.

I'll say it again, bitching on here = ZERO.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts.

And that is why a fix will occur with time. At the risk of getting flamed here I will post something I previously decided not to.

The Customs & Border Patrol folks I talked to in three different States and Cities to a person were polite and more than one shared they felt blind sided by this. The expression was they as a Federal Agency were tired of the overreach occurring.

Folks, call me a Pollyanna if you wish but even those working in Government are getting tired of this.

Push back is needed. Do you job and contact your Senators and Representatives now, even if you are not going abroad anytime soon.

I'll say it again, bitching on here = ZERO.

+1. While the local CBP gent I spoke to didn't explicitly say it, I got the distinct impression he was tired of this crap.

Jim, you've also been "mentioned" on AH. If I may ask, would you post on the thread there too?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts.

And that is why a fix will occur with time. At the risk of getting flamed here I will post something I previously decided not to.

The Customs & Border Patrol folks I talked to in three different States and Cities to a person were polite and more than one shared they felt blind sided by this. The expression was they as a Federal Agency were tired of the overreach occurring.

Folks, call me a Pollyanna if you wish but even those working in Government are getting tired of this.

Push back is needed. Do you job and contact your Senators and Representatives now, even if you are not going abroad anytime soon.

I'll say it again, bitching on here = ZERO.

I appreciate all the info posted here. I basically copied m3taco's email and sent it out to my reps as well, but I have little faith that these white collar low life thugs will do anything to help. They only seem to care about riding the gravy train and getting reelected. Pissed me off every time I think about it.

It's worth a shot though.

Scott:

It sure as hell is!!! And with the abuses of power and over-reach in so many areas now...damn, just damn. I hope, I hope everyone will get off their butts and get on the phones and send emails. And when they do they will have info here that they can provide knowledgeable information.

Frostbit:

Zero flame from me as your experience with your local Customs agents has been the exact same as mine here it the Tampa office. Everyone has been polite and equally concerned about hearing this from the public and not from top down.

Concur - everyone needs to get involved in this or we lose due to inaction.

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts.

And that is why a fix will occur with time. At the risk of getting flamed here I will post something I previously decided not to.

The Customs & Border Patrol folks I talked to in three different States and Cities to a person were polite and more than one shared they felt blind sided by this. The expression was they as a Federal Agency were tired of the overreach occurring.

Folks, call me a Pollyanna if you wish but even those working in Government are getting tired of this.

Push back is needed. Do you job and contact your Senators and Representatives now, even if you are not going abroad anytime soon.

I'll say it again, bitching on here = ZERO.

+1. While the local CBP gent I spoke to didn't explicitly say it, I got the distinct impression he was tired of this crap.

Jim, you've also been "mentioned" on AH. If I may ask, would you post on the thread there too?

Feel free to cut and paste what ever you wish there. I leave in 4 days and frankly have invested way too much time in this already.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts.

And that is why a fix will occur with time. At the risk of getting flamed here I will post something I previously decided not to.

The Customs & Border Patrol folks I talked to in three different States and Cities to a person were polite and more than one shared they felt blind sided by this. The expression was they as a Federal Agency were tired of the overreach occurring.

Folks, call me a Pollyanna if you wish but even those working in Government are getting tired of this.

Push back is needed. Do you job and contact your Senators and Representatives now, even if you are not going abroad anytime soon.

I'll say it again, bitching on here = ZERO.

+1. While the local CBP gent I spoke to didn't explicitly say it, I got the distinct impression he was tired of this crap.

Jim, you've also been "mentioned" on AH. If I may ask, would you post on the thread there too?

Feel free to cut and paste what ever you wish there. I leave in 4 days and frankly have invested way too much time in this already.

Saw your posts, thanks. Best of luck with everything!

Just had a thought on how to still use the AESDirect system (if we are forced to) without having to obtain/use an EIN - Our passport number.

1. As in Frostbit's post, C&BP asked for his passport, ticket etc to get his ITN.
2. You are required to have a passport for International travel anyway.
3. Your entry/exit is scanned/monitored buy US Immigration anyway.
4. The AESDirect account creation menu could be modified to allow non business/private individuals to have a account for the exclusive/limited use of getting a temp export exemption permit for the maximum three firearms and nothing more.
5. Still have to get/use the 4457.

It still doesn't do anything to address the longterm collection/creation of firearm ownership databases but that can be a separate fight.

Looking for people to poke holes in this idea.

http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=708



New US Firearm Export Requirements Leave Traveling Hunters Scrambling for Answers

(posted March 20, 2015)

An apparent new requirement for US citizens to leave the country with sporting firearms is causing an uproar among hunters with plans to hunt internationally this season. It seems that US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has posted to their website (www.ice.gov/cpi/faq) new guidelines that require travelers to file what is called Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES) or the Internet-based system AESDirect. The posting goes on to say, "In addition to filing the EEI in AES or AESDirect prior to export, all firearms, ammunition and additional mandatory documentation (e.g., certifications, foreign import permits, proof of AES filing; such as the Internal Transaction Number) must be presented to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authorities for visual inspection at the port of departure from the United States."

Those instructions are then followed with this scary warning: "Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is the primary federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating international smuggling operations and enforcing U.S. export control laws. Failure to comply with the federal regulations governing the temporary and permanent export of firearms and/or ammunition from the United States (including the proper filing of EEI) may result in the detention, seizure, and forfeiture of improperly declared firearms and ammunition and could further subject the traveler to arrest and criminal prosecution by HSI special agents for violation of federal export and/or arms smuggling laws."

The Hunting Report immediately contacted appropriate personnel at the National Rifle Association (NRA) who were already investigating this development. We also contacted Customs and Border Security and spoke with an agent who told us that frontline Customs agents had not been informed of any such requirements and that leaving the country and returning with firearms was business as usual for US citizens. We were told that filling out Customs Form 4457 and presenting your firearms for inspection prior departure and presenting that form upon return - the system that has been in place for decades - was all that was needed. Yet the new requirements are clearly posted to Customs' own website, and an item in the FAQ's even addresses hunters traveling to Africa for a safari.

Emails to the export licensing authorities mentioned in the new regulations produced vague and completely useless responses, pointing back to Customs.

At this stage, no one seems to have any answers. We are asking hunters who have tried to file with the Automated Export System or AESDirect (which appear to be designed for commercial use), or who have visited Customs to declare their firearm on a Customs Form 4457 to email their experience to us. We will forward your email to the point person on this at the NRA, who will use it to demonstrate to lawmakers and authorities the problems with this new requirement. Send your emails directly to Editor-in-Chief Barbara Crown at barbara@huntingreport.com.As soon as we have more information we will send out another bulletin.

Get important news bulletins like this sent directly to your email 24 hours before anyone else sees them, plus unlimited access to our database of hunt reports and past articles, a special expanded electronic version of our newsletter and more! Upgrade your Hunting Report subscription to Email Extra today. Click here for more information.

Today, on High Caliber Radio, we started urging our listeners and internet viewers to contact their congressmen about this blatant attempt at back door gun control. We also had Dave Workman from the 2nd Amemendment Foundation on and informed him of the situation to get them involved.

I leave March 29 for Zim through Joberg, returning April 17. Just heard about this today. I have emailed our local customs office to see if I need to do any thing. I will post what I find out.

Just consolidated all my info and experiences and sent email to Hunting Reports.

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
http://www.huntingreport.com/w...te.cfm?articleid=708

Those instructions are then followed with this scary warning: "Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is the primary federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating international smuggling operations and enforcing U.S. export control laws. Failure to comply with the federal regulations governing the temporary and permanent export of firearms and/or ammunition from the United States (including the proper filing of EEI) may result in the detention, seizure, and forfeiture of improperly declared firearms and ammunition and could further subject the traveler to arrest and criminal prosecution by HSI special agents for violation of federal export and/or arms smuggling laws."

Here we go, see the highlighted words. As I stated in my earlier post it's just a matter of time before they start targeting a lot of optics and other equipment that is export restricted. Most of it excessively restricted in my opinion.

In theory, if you showed up at the Customs inspection with a Trijicon or multitude of other lighted reticle scopes, ballistic reticles, etc. you could quite possibly be hung out to dry for violating export laws. The argument that the equipment is coming back isn't going to matter.

This might be useful for those departing soon that are trying to use the back door to an ITN Number afforded me by the Customs and Border Protection folks here in Anchorage.

I had mentioned having talked with Houston and Seattle Officers. I gave the Seattle Officer a call back today to let him know how I got my ITN. He asked me to give him the number and he verified it was legit.

When I mentioned the problems reflected on here about Tampa not knowing how to do it he informed me the C&BP are broken up into units and the EXPORT UNIT is the one that has the software to make this happen.

Hope that helps someone.

Cheers
Jim

Well...I got my AESD account set up. Now...I just awaiting instructions from my travel agent, Linda Schrader of Falcon Travel as to whether to register a new shipment or not...or what the hell to do...I don't leave til May 7th.

Guys I'm in Trade Compliance with a company that deals with these regulations. I would caution anyone from establishing themselves as an exporting entity without due diligence. The laws regulating how companies handle exports are extremely complicated and carry heavy penalties for violation of same. I would be hesitant to open myself to the liability of establishing myself as an exporter without clarification with regards to limits of liability provided to individuals under these new directives.

As I posted last night I compiled my notes and send an email to Ms. Crown. I am posting what I sent so the info I've gathered over the past week is more or less in one post. Feel free to cut/paste/edit for other uses as you may desire.

Ms. Crown:

A copy of your 20 March 2015 report regarding the “NEW” US. Customs requirement for obtaining a “Temporary Firearm Exemption Certificate” was copied and posted over on the Accurate Reloading.com web site. The article requested emails from those who have attempted to obtain the required exemption. Here is what I’ve experienced/ discovered over the course of this week.

Here is a link to ICE web site that started this: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

If you read down through the “Overveiw” tab section, about half-way down, it refers to the “International Traffic in Arms Regulation” (ITAR) as well as several other sources.

To summarize, this is a new requirement wherein a private citizen is going to be required to enter personal information into a Federal database to include the details of personally own firearms he/she is planning to take out of the US to a foreign country either for sport hunting or competitive shooting. If the person is taking less than three firearms and less than 1000 rounds of loaded ammunition they still have to go through the entire process starting with this questionnaire: https://www.ice.gov/exec/ice-gov/cpiquiz.htm just to obtain a “license exemption”.

Once you complete the questions: Q-1 yes, Q-2 top three checked, Q-3 top two checked, Q-4 rifle, pistol, or ammunition selected, you end up on a web page that says, “An Export License Is Not Required”. But, if also says the you are still required to obtain a “license exemption”. You are directed to this page: http://aesdirect.census.gov/ that seems to be “hosted” by the U.S. Census Bureau.

I did successfully create an account on the site, but instead of and IRS issued EIN number (I don’t have or own a business nor a Dunn & Bradstreet listing) I used my Social Security number. I successfully completed the required 30-question “test” and worked through entering my information in “draft” form, but did NOT submit it.

Via others posting on the AR website, it was pointed out the use of a SS# is prohibited. I contacted the AESDirect Technical Support department at 877-715-4433, worked through the menu prompts. When I finally got through to a person, I explained that I had mistakenly used my SS and not an EIN and the account was deleted.

I asked the Tech Support person why an EIN was required and was directed to contact the AESDirect at 800-549-0595, worked through some menus and a support person who ended up transferring me to a Department Supervisor (name was either Daniel or Douglas I don’t remember).

Here is potential snag #1. IRS Pub EIN

“Purpose of an Employer Identification Number
Employer Identification Numbers are issued for the purpose of tax administration and are not intended for participation in any other activities (e.g., tax lien auction or sales, lotteries, etc.)”

Per a phone call I had to the IRS, after several attempts and several HOURS on hold, the IRS Agent I spoke to (didn’t get a name or badge #) specifically said the above info is correct. I described for her where the requirement was coming from and for the basic purpose, obtaining a temporary export permit, and she restated the same info above.

I tried to explain this to the AESDirect Supervisor and he said he didn’t care. Basically, users are required to obtain and use an EIN or a DUNS – period. He had no concept of the implications of getting an EIN for a “non tax related activity”. I tried to explain the connection, the IRS conversation I had and also explain the IRS requirement that ALL holders of an EIN are also required to file a IRS Form 1040 c or c-ez even if you did do any business activity. One member on the AR website said he contacted his accountant who confirmed this requirement.

Here is the IRS Guidance: IRS Pub If you read down the page it states pretty clearly that if you get an EIN you are required to file a 1040 c or cz. As I understand it, not filing or continuing to carry an EIN could possibly put you in violation of IRS tax code and open the person up to audits/penalties/prosecution. During the course of this what happens if the IRS finds out the individual obtained the EIN for a “non-tax related activity”?

He directed me to call AESDirect at 800 549 0595, menu Option 3, for Regulatory Questions. I talked to a lady named Heather. I specifically asked her about the EIN requirement. She basically related the same information I received from the Support Section Supervisor. I asked her if she understood the implications of obtaining an EIN for a non-tax related activity. She said she didn’t but that “they have been requiring the use of EIN or DUNS numbers for years. The problem with this is, up to this point the only users who have been using the AESDirect website have been commercial enterprises, licensed customs brokers, licensed freight forwarders etc.

Heather also said they were “working on getting the IRS to change the wording on their web site. She also said that the Census Bureau does not exchange information with the IRS which was directly contradictory from the info I received from the Department Supervisor who claimed they did have authority to exchange information across government agency lines.

Next jewel I asked Heather was “is it legal for someone who isn’t a licensed customs broker or freight forwarder, like a travel agent, or just a private person to open an account in AESDirect and enter other peoples firearm information and give them an ITN.” She said, “YES”, anyone can open an AESDirect account and enter someone else’s information but, the person opening the account and has to use an EIN to open the account an have a signed “letter of authorization” or power of attorney AND THE OTHER PERSON’S EIN. The other person’s SS# is NOT AUTHORIZED. In fact, no SS# are permitted in AESDirect – period.

This has not all been bad. I did have a very good face to face meeting with the US Customs Office at the Tampa Int. Airport yesterday. As others here have reported, they had not heard of this “new” requirement – ITN etc. All three of the agents were very friendly and helpful, just not up on the current situation. The last officer I spoke to was VERY interested in getting this sorted out. Both she and her husband are avid gun enthusiasts/hunters and even did a hunting trip to Zimbabwe a couple of years ago and are looking to go back to Africa again!!! She took my name and phone number and promised she would definitely dig into this and get back to me.


Here are my biggest concerns.

1. As a private person, not involved in the arms/ammunition export business, I am going to be required to provide my personal information and address as well as my personally owned firearm information into a Federally maintained data base – basically federally register my personal firearms.

2. How is there a tax related connection to an EIN being requested and utilized for the sole purpose of obtaining an approval to temporarily export personally and legally owned firearms for a purely recreational/vacation/competitive shooting activity?

3. Here is where this really gets troubling. Let's "presume" we end up having to comply with obtaining an EIN. That EIN is directly tied to our SS#. Now we use that EIN to comply with the temp export permit requirement. Contained in the temp export permit info is our names, addresses, dates of departure, airline, serial number of each firearm and it's value. It is only three firearm on any given trip, next trip could be three different and the next trip three more different. Over time the Feds build up a database record of what you own and where you live.

3a. IF that info is in fact shared with IRS and they happen to have someway to cross that info against your tax records and they even SUSPECT you are "living above your means" as indicated from your tax records...do you think that could trigger any bells? Is it also possible they could hold the fact that we obtained an EIN for an unauthorized purpose over our heads etc?

3b. And what if you don't file an annual 1040c under that EIN and it goes dormant or is automatically deleted at a period of time and is in fact no longer valid. You then try to use an invalid EIN...

4. While this is the last concern it is my greatest. It seems they are using the UN Treating on International Arms Trafficking as the basis for this new requirement. Last time I checked, the US Senate has NOT approved this UN Treaty and it is being used as a back-door method of Federal Firearms Registration of US citizen’s private, legally owned firearms and ammunition similar to the recent ATF attempt to ban the 5.56 M855 “Green Tip” ammunition.

Bottom line is this process is broken before it even starts. It seems to me this entire process was supposedly put in place to stop illegal arms trafficking, that is already ILLEGAL. It’s highly unlikely military weapons grade arms dealers are shipping hunting style single-shot, bolt action, lever action or double rifles and shotguns out of the US 2-3 at a time when organized terrorist can purchase AK 47s for less than $100 a piece all day long pretty much anywhere overseas. This entire regulation was put into place to solve a problem that didn’t exist in the legal shooting sports activities.

My preference would be for the entire system to be scrapped. But, if for some reason there is no way to completely stop this requirement perhaps a possible solution to this is to have the AESDirect program modified to accept an individual’s passport number when creating the account. If someone applies for and opens an AESDirect account using a passport number their actions, activities and form entries would be limited to the three firearm limit and only to obtain the “license exemption”.

Ms. Crown responded back early this morning. As I don't have permission to post the contents of her email here, she basically said that is the kind of info being requested. She said she forwarded to to the NRA and asked if I had any more info to pass. Here is what I sent her a few minutes ago. Again, others here are free to cut/paste/edit for other uses as desired.

Ms. Crown:

How much farther down the rabbit hole would you like to go with me? Read on if you want to have tea the Mad Hatter!

Because your original published request was for the experiences of individuals entering/working with AESDirect, I limited my response to just the AESDirect system. While I have not yet traveled under this “new” requirement I will be at the end of June this year. Here are some other concerns and problems I see with the current overall requirement.

The end result of the AESDirect system is the traveler ends up with an “International Travel Number” (ITN). According to the ICE/C&BP instructions, the traveler is REQUIRED to give this ITN to the airline agent at the time of check-in, the TSA agent when you present the rifle case for the special scanning/screening and to a C&BP agent. The traveler is also to provide the ITN to the C&PB when clearing their firearms back into the US at their initial Port of Entry – Atlanta, JFK, Dulles etc. and also “possibly” when collecting their rifle cases at the final destination/home airport.

Here are the problems with these requirements.

When I left the C&BP office at the Tampa Int airport Thursday afternoon, I stopped at the airport terminal. Since we are flying on Delta for this years trip, I stopped by the Delta check-in desk and wait till all flying passengers had checked in and then asked the Delta agent if she was aware of any kind of a new up-coming requirement for passengers traveling with firearms providing her with an International Travel Number. She said no. I asked her if there were any “fields” on her computer screen labeled INT for entering passenger check-in information – no. Thanked her for her time and walked over the TSA area where we take our rifle cases after checking in.

I asked the TSA agent if he was aware of travelers with firearms having to give them an ITN when checking firearms in – no. I said do you guys have any kind of computer system here you can use to access a database containing outbound cargo shipments that have a Customs clearance? – no. I asked them if were I could find a C&BP officer here in the terminal. The said the only time C&BP are normally in the passenger terminal is when an International flight is arriving. I was already aware there is a C&BP office, manned by one person, at the baggage collection area who deals exclusively with Global Entry/Trusted Traveler.

Walked down to the C&BP office mentioned above and asked the agent if he was aware of this new ITN requirement – no.

Now this was all at an International airport. Imagine the traveling hunter who starts their trip from a smaller regional or local airport, even IF they get an ITN. The airline agent doesn’t know about the ITN requirement and even if they do they have no place to enter the number. Small, non-International airports don’t have any C&BP presence at all and TSA is even less likely to have knowledge/awareness of the ITN requirement – may only have half a dozen gun cases a year. So, before the traveler gets on the plan they have already potentially violated Federal law four times. Once with the IRS buy getting an EIN for a “non-tax related purpose” and three times with ICE just checking in!

There was one member of the AR website that was able to obtain an ITN directly from the Anchorage C&PB office. They required his passport, airline ticket, firearms and 4457s. They somehow were able to enter the required info and gave him an ITN written on a “yellow sticky note”. He said they were “unable to print it out on official letterhead” for some reason. So, somehow they were able to enter info WITHOUT an IRS EIN!!

I need to bring the 4457 process into this discussion. Under the current process, if a hunter can’t get a 4457 before getting on his very first flight, they can check the rifle case to the first major airport (Atlanta, JFK etc) pull the case and go to a C&BP office and get the 4457 issued on the spot and then re-check the case to their destination. This same thing CANNOT be done with AESDirect. The AESDirect system requires information entry and ITN issue a MINIMUM OF 8 HOURS PRIOR TO TRAVEL. So, this would mean the probability of requiring and incurring the expense and travel delay of an additional overnight stay at the traveler’s primary “port of departure”. Returning from overseas could generate an additional set of problems that I don’t have answers for.

First, what happens if the returning hunter loses the “little yellow sticky” with the ITN on it in the bush and can’t produce it as required or demanded by the C&BP when clearing the firearms back in. Will C&PB, as indicated in their warnings, confiscate the person’s potentially very expensive or very cherished or family heirloom firearms? Will they be arrested and prosecuted? What happens if the traveler couldn’t or didn’t give the ITN to the ticketing agent, C&PB or TSA at original check-in and there is some “hidden” requirement that the ITN has to be “activated” in the computer system at the time of actual departure – flights change once in awhile. The traveler returns, has their “little yellow sticky note” with an ITN on it BUT it was not “activated” when they departed? Confiscation, arrest, prosecution again? What if the “little yellow sticky note” with the ITN on it “isn’t good enough” for some hard….nosed C&BP, TSA or ticketing agent. Confiscation, arrest, prosecution again? Hell, for that matter am I potentially opening myself up for "special attention" via the IRS or some other alphabet soup letter government agency just for highlighting these issues on a public internet website or via email?

At this point if so fine. I spent 28 years in the Air Force. Started out as enlisted as an E-1 Airman Basic and retired out as an O-5 Lt. Col. At every enlistment, every reenlistment, every promotion I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. When I retired, I was never relieved of the oath. To quote the Pogo comic strips twist of Commodore Perry's famous quote, "We have met the enemy and they are ours" - "We have met the enemy and they are us"!!

Here is my cell phone number – feel free to call anytime. I sincerely hope we can get this completely shutdown. I’ll offer any help I can.

Have to go - I think I hear the teakettle whistling!!

v/r


If anyone else here as any other info please email Ms. Crown with it.

Very impressive m3taco, you have an amazingly sharp mind, common sence, perseverance, and patience. This is the sort of comprehensive analysis that will hopefully trigger a re-thinking of what is obviously an ill-conceived and poorly implemented program. Well done sir!

Well, the NRA has responded to this mess. See:

https://www.nraila.org/article...hunters-and-shooters

Saying, as has been said many times in this discussion, "... members are urged to contact their U.S. Representatives and Senators and voice their opposition to the State Department's new implementation scheme."

m3taco - My hat is off to you!

Excellent work!

BillC & Scott:

Thanks but it is kind of what I did the last 10-years of my mil career until I retired out in 2011.

After 9/11, I was ordered to HQ US Central Command here in Tampa. I worked in the J-5 Plans and Policy Directorate. Worked directly for a 2-star and sometimes even reported/briefed the CC. While some here may read my postings as "Chicken Little" or even "Chicken $hit", I don't give a rats ass.

I learned damn quickly as a HQ staff monkey you had better damn well, "turn over every *uck'n rock and find every mother*ucking turd and have an answer for it before you *ucking darken my door and waist my mother*ucking time". A statement like that, directed at you personally, as a lowly Major, face to face, from 18" away, being delivered from a VERY large 3-Star Marine very early on in your assignment tends to leave a rather lasting and life changing...impression. I can laugh about it now but at the time to say it was "unnerving" would be a serious understatement.

Well done m3taco! Thanks for leading this charge!

quote:

Originally posted by ftbt:
Well, the NRA has responded to this mess. See:

https://www.nraila.org/article...hunters-and-shooters

From this release:

quote:

It is also unclear how the new rules may be enforced in non-airport situations--for example, hunters who drive to Canada for the upcoming spring bear season.

I thought I read that Canada is exempt???

The Obama administration’s relentless assault on the Second Amendment continues as the State Department implements a new rule which catches American hunters and sport shooters in a web of bureaucratic red-tape when traveling outside the United States. Coming close on the heels of the withdrawn BATFE ammo ban we reported on last week, an unmistakable pattern of abuse is beginning to emerge, suggesting Obama’s last two years could prove the most challenging period in history for America’s gun owners.

Exporting firearms and ammunition from the U.S. normally requires a license--from the State Department for rifles, handguns, and rifle or handgun ammunition, and from the Commerce Department for shotguns and shotshells. But for many years, the State Department’s International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR) have allowed Americans to temporarily export up to three non-automatic firearms and up to 1,000 rounds of ammunition without a permit, as long as the firearms were declared and presented to a Customs officer. This was done by bringing the firearms to a Customs office at some point before the trip and completing Customs Form 4457--a form that can be completed for any personal property and that is normally used to prove that the traveler owned the property before going abroad, thus protecting the traveler from paying import duties on items already owned. The traveler would retain the form and present it upon reentry if needed.

But a 2012 State Department rule change added an important new requirement that the traveler declare rifles or handguns “upon each departure” by presenting documentation generated through the Commerce Department’s “Automated Export System” (AES)--an online reporting tool designed for use by businesses. (Non-“combat” shotguns are not regulated by the State Department, so the AES requirement does not apply to temporary shotgun exports.) The rule change was buried in a Federal Register notice aimed at authorizing the temporary export of gas masks by government employees and contractors.

Fortunately, the change was never enforced—until now. In postings on the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) website and in internal ICE documents obtained by NRA-ILA, ICE makes clear that it has begun enforcing the rule change. Form 4457 may no longer be used for firearms, and electronic declarations will be the norm.

However, ICE’s internal documents implicitly acknowledge that individuals are currently unable to use the AES because the system requires entry of an Employer Identification Number. Those numbers are normally only obtained by businesses, and the Internal Revenue Service says they should only be used for tax purposes.

Fortunately for travelers who are unaware of these requirements or unable to use the AES, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has,for the moment, implemented a stopgap plan under which Customs officers at airports can manually enter identifying information about the traveler and the firearm. While this may prevent travel plans from being ruined, it also raises questions about how long the information will be kept and how it might be used. It is unclear how long this alternative will be available. It is also unclear how the new rules may be enforced in non-airport situations--for example, hunters who drive to Canada for the upcoming spring bear season.

The NRA, along with other groups representing hunters and sport shooters, are working on an emergency rule change to solve these problems. If necessary, the NRA will also pursue shorter-term administrative changes to prevent immediate headaches, and will also consider the potential need for a long-term solution through federal legislation.

In anticipation of the need for a legislative fix, NRA members are urged to contact their U.S. Representative and Senators and voice their opposition to the State Department’s new implementation scheme. American law-abiding gun owners traveling to hunt or shoot competitively are not “exporters” under any reasonable understanding of what that term is intended to mean.

You can contact your U.S. Representative or Senators by using our "Write Your Lawmakers" tool at www.NRAILA.org, or by phone at (202) 224-3121.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
m3taco - My hat is off to you!

Excellent work!

+1. Thanks for all that you're doing, and thanks for your service to our country.

Lhok7:

Thanks, but I'm not intentionally leading anything. To coin an old Army Slogan "I'm an Army of one". In this case "one" speaking up is NOT going to get anything done. Mostly, I am just goddamn sick and tired of seeing the Constitution that I spent over 1/2 of my life defending being shit on by the people in the civilian leadership in the very same government, who've sworn a similar oath, ignore it or tear it to shreds.

That is why I've said feel free to cut/past/edit my info as other see fit to get off their butts and contact their elected Federal officials.

It seems the animal rights activists, anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-***** have learned that the squeakiest wheel, even if it is smallest minority, gets the action.

We need to learn from that and do it even BETTER, by using FACTS not emotions and speaking up, speaking out with civility, respect, VOLUME and in NUMBERS.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Lhok7:

Thanks, but I'm not intentionally leading anything. To coin an old Army Slogan "I'm an Army of one". In this case "one" speaking up is NOT going to get anything done. Mostly, I am just goddamn sick and tired of seeing the Constitution that I spent over 1/2 of my life defending being shit on by the people in the civilian leadership in the very same government, who've sworn a similar oath, ignore it or tear it to shreds.

That is why I've said feel free to cut/past/edit my info as other see fit to get off their butts and contact their elected Federal officials.

It seems the animal rights activists, anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-***** have learned that the squeakiest wheel, even if it is smallest minority, gets the action.

We need to learn from that and do it even BETTER, by using FACTS not emotions and speaking up, speaking out with civility, respect, VOLUME and in NUMBERS.

As a fellow veteran, I completely agree. I wrote my congressman and both senators a couple of days ago, but unfortunately have not received a single response. Very disappointing, especially considering Senator Enzi is a member of the Sportsmen's Caucus.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco: ... Mostly, I am just goddamn sick and tired of seeing the Constitution that I spent over 1/2 of my life defending being shit on by the people in the civilian leadership in the very same government, who've sworn a similar oath, ignore it or tear it to shreds. ...
It seems the animal rights activists, anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-***** have learned that the squeakiest wheel, even if it is smallest minority, gets the action.

We need to learn from that and do it even BETTER, by using FACTS not emotions and speaking up, speaking out with civility, respect, VOLUME and in NUMBERS.

Well said, sir. Our Liberties and Rights are being eroded ... Drip-By-Drip and Piece-By-Piece. Patriots like you have devoted all of their adult lives (and many have given their lives and well-being) to protect and defend our Constitution, only to see the Constitution be twisted, torn, and ignored by "Community Organizer" Politicians who are hell-bent to "fundamentally transform" our country.

quote:

Originally posted by sdirks:
So, if your flight originates in a US airport that is not a port of entry (and therefore doesn't HAVE Customs personnel on site) can you no longer check your rifle case through to your destination, as I have always done in the past? Now you have to set up your trip so that you have enough time in say, Dulles, to retrieve your bags, go visit Customs somewhere and then go see TSA again before boarding? At the very least it will make booking flights trickier than it was. to retrieve your bags, go visit Customs somewhere and then go see TSA again before boarding? At the very least it will make booking flights trickier than it was.

I would appreciate hearing from those of you flying out these next few months to see how this works in practice.

Not to mention if one is hunting with a pistol and the flight connection is at JFK then one can get arrested as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Fortunately for travelers who are unaware of these requirements or unable to use the AES, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has,for the moment, implemented a stopgap plan under which Customs officers at airports can manually enter identifying information about the traveler and the firearm. While this may prevent travel plans from being ruined, it also raises questions about how long the information will be kept and how it might be used. It is unclear how long this alternative will be available. It is also unclear how the new rules may be enforced in non-airport situations--for example, hunters who drive to Canada for the upcoming spring bear season.

This is the part that for the moment gives hunters traveling abroad in the near future a way around this issue. I have been on the phone this week a couple of times with a supervisor at the local CBP office that is located at Phoenix Sky Harbor airport. For at least the time being, this is exactly the process that he has described to me and assured me will be okay. I leave the end of May for RSA, it may be changed by then, but for now this is the process I intend to follow for this trip.

The problem is I'm quite certain not all CBP offices are aware of this workaround.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Lhok7:

Thanks, but I'm not intentionally leading anything. To coin an old Army Slogan "I'm an Army of one". In this case "one" speaking up is NOT going to get anything done. Mostly, I am just goddamn sick and tired of seeing the Constitution that I spent over 1/2 of my life defending being shit on by the people in the civilian leadership in the very same government, who've sworn a similar oath, ignore it or tear it to shreds.

That is why I've said feel free to cut/past/edit my info as other see fit to get off their butts and contact their elected Federal officials.

It seems the animal rights activists, anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-***** have learned that the squeakiest wheel, even if it is smallest minority, gets the action.

We need to learn from that and do it even BETTER, by using FACTS not emotions and speaking up, speaking out with civility, respect, VOLUME and in NUMBERS.

My hat's off to you LTC! I would add that in addition to emails, to contact by phone the local offices of your representatives. The emails are just going to be one more in a stack of emails that they get everyday. Will they be noticed and acted upon? Perhaps, but maybe not. After sending emails to my congressman and both senators from Arizona, I got no reply.

So yesterday I called the local office of Representative Matt Salmon, my congressman. I spoke to a gent there who was quite sympathetic to the issue and I do believe is taking the issue up. I also gave him the name of Frostbit's congressman, Don Young, and told him their office was working the same issue. My guy thanked me for that info and said he'd be calling their office.

So my take is make yourself a big but polite pain in the butt to these folks. The more that do this and the more we put our reps in contact with each other, the more likely we can get resolution on this issue.

By the way Colonel, while I've never served, I did at one time work very closely with the navy, specifically in nuclear power. I received a similar dose of "advice" from a Master Chief. While not an Admiral, a civilian does not readily dismiss such advice from someone who has spent a great deal of their lifetime under water in a submarine. I laugh about it now too, your story reminded me of that time and made me chuckle.

I am surprised there is radio silence from booking agents or travel agents who specialize in providing professional services to hunters hunting overseas.

Anyone know the legal liabilities of signing up under this new system ?

Last thing I would want to do is become subject to U.S. arms export federal regulation without knowing the exact legal ramifications of it.

Mike

Gentleman-

Pure and Simple, this is another Obama lash back at hunters and sportsmen, probably due to the quick shut down of his 223 Ammo Ban....and maybe even a tirade over being caught funding anti Netanyaha campaign through the State Dept....

This also has the earmarks of the Executive Fiat implementation of part of the UN Small Arms Ban Treaty Obama and Kerry wanted so badly, Kerry has signed, but it has NOT been put before Senate for Ratification....no Treaty ever has been Ratified yet!!....and I don't think this one would....even with the close vote of 53-46 when a letter to Obama was sent BEFORE the last election saying they WOULDN"T!!
Folks this is another BIG push against our Second Amendment Rights....and we must FIGHT...not act like sheep and try to comply....maybe in short term to go on trips pending....but NOT FOR LONG>
I what written my 2 Senators and Congressman, with copy to McConnell and Boehner.....NRA, SCI, DSC and all other hunters Rights groups must get on this NOW!!

Cheers,

m3taco,
I have personal company with an EIN so I registered with AESDirect and passed the little quiz so my account was activated. But I still cannot figure out where to go from there to get the ITN number. Did you figure that part out?

Lane,
I believe that you have to create a shipment, submit it with the proper codes from the schedule and submit it. They will send you an email with the itn number.

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Lhok7:

Thanks, but I'm not intentionally leading anything. To coin an old Army Slogan "I'm an Army of one".

I think there are at least two of us in the "Army" Mate and likely many more. Nice chatting today and keep us informed on how it goes when you approach the "export unit" of C&BP about getting an ITN Number.

Though that may be a temporary fix for those like myself leaving very shortly none of use should consider that option as the only way to handle this.

Nice work on your part with the documentation.

Glad to see the NRA-ILA involved as well.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:

quote:

Originally posted by m3taco:
Lhok7:

Thanks, but I'm not intentionally leading anything. To coin an old Army Slogan "I'm an Army of one". In this case "one" speaking up is NOT going to get anything done. Mostly, I am just goddamn sick and tired of seeing the Constitution that I spent over 1/2 of my life defending being shit on by the people in the civilian leadership in the very same government, who've sworn a similar oath, ignore it or tear it to shreds.

That is why I've said feel free to cut/past/edit my info as other see fit to get off their butts and contact their elected Federal officials.

It seems the animal rights activists, anti-gun, anti-hunting, anti-***** have learned that the squeakiest wheel, even if it is smallest minority, gets the action.

We need to learn from that and do it even BETTER, by using FACTS not emotions and speaking up, speaking out with civility, respect, VOLUME and in NUMBERS.

As a fellow veteran, I completely agree. I wrote my congressman and both senators a couple of days ago, but unfortunately have not received a single response. Very disappointing, especially considering Senator Enzi is a member of the Sportsmen's Caucus.

With all due respect get on the phone. Get a Deputy Directors email in each office and cut and paste your original communication to them.

You have to talk to a human, not a website, in order to get some attention.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Lane,
I believe that you have to create a shipment, submit it with the proper codes from the schedule and submit it. They will send you an email with the itn number.

Hi Rick,
Have you already done it?