Welcome Mark!!! You definitely got a raw deal from SCI. As a member I will be sending a letter. I really look forward to seeing your contributions on AR in the future! Have a safe and successful season!

Brett

Hello Mark
Welcome to this great site

G'Day Mark and as the others have said welcome to the forum. I have for many years enjoied you videos & books. I have hunted Africa for plains game along with a couple of buffalo.....and loved it....to that end i have always wanted to try one of those hunts with you and my 500 Jeffery but alas the aussie dollar hasn't been able to stretch that far
To that end I am also a life memeber of SCI and although they do a great deal of fantastic work I have felt let down by a number of things on their part.I to will continue to support them for good work they do and try to over look some of the dissapointments.Keep up the great work and I hope that one day I may have the good furtune to shake your hand and have a chin wag about hunting africa and the cape buffalo.have a great season

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Sullivan:

Regardless of their treatment of me, I will continue to support SCI at every opportunity.

Great Hunting and Best Wishes,

Mark Sullivan
Professional Hunter

Now that is one extraordinary statement. That should tell everyone something about both Sullivan and SCI.

: : :

Didn't I see a definition of egomaniac posted somewhere on this board?

Mark,
Thanks for your excellent introduction, and Welcome to AR.

Mark, great write up. I've personally stayed out of this recent drivel, until now. Hope your response moves this forum to other matters, like AFRICAN Hunting.

As far as I'm concerned, you indeed got the shaft from SCI.

Hope you have a great season in Tanzania.

Mad Dog

I have never hunted buffalo but I would like to some day. You Mark, wrote the introduction for the 577 Nitro Express 3 Inch on page 435 of the Barnes Reloading Manual. I have some questions on the "massive bull standing his ground in heavy brush" that you stalked to within "16 yards" and then "hammered" between the eyes at "less than 10 feet." My questions for experienced buffalo hunters are:

1. Do buffalo generally stand their ground and/or become "enraged" when stalked? I had been under the impression that they would usually depart when they became aware of a stalker unless, of course, they were wounded.

2. I know it's all the rage to stalk elephant to very close range before capping them but is that usual or even necessary with buffalo?

3. A "snake-infested korongo" is mentioned. What is a korongo and are they usually snake infested? How many have run into snakes whilst hunting buffalo?

Different strokes, I reckon.

I don't like Mr. Sullivan's videos and unlike him, I prefer hunting DVD's that don't have a shot-a-moment but which show the whole safari experience.

That said, I'm glad the gentleman responded to inquiries here. Each reader of his post can judge for themselves (by reading Mark's own words) a bit more about the man's character.

Previous to his post, I did not want to pay the premium required to hunt with Mr. Sullivan. His comments make me feel that my prior decisions were correct. I do find it troubling that his comments somewhat contradict each other (what I've seen in his videos, too) and he paints his clients with a pretty broad brush in his own defense. Still, I'll give the guy credit for at posting a response to Kim's querries. More power to him for that.

But, 10 feet from a charging buffalo/hippo before shooting?

quote:

The reason why I was disappointed is because the charging hippo was too far away to be shot. He was 21 feet away. In my opinion that is too far for a certain killing shot. My instructions to my client (before we entered the arena) were to wait until the hippo breaks the 10 foot barrier before shooting. He did not do that. I do not believe in shooting early. Twenty one feet is much too far. Why is it too far? It goes to the core of how I hunt dangerous game. I believe 10 feet is the correct distance to begin shooting; not 21 feet. It is all about the hunt, not the kill. At 10 feet it is hunting. At 21 feet it is killing. This is how I hunt. By the way, for those of you who have never stood just ten feet in front of a charging animal, there is not a lot of time to shoot.

Do you reckon that he meant 10 "yards" and not 10 "feet"? Just for fun, this morning I put a rifle in hand and measured 10 feet from my toes. It ain't very far.

Five or six years ago, at the Sea Cliff in Dar, I was looking for some AR guys and saw Mark. Before I saw the fellows for whom I was looking (and I think both Steve Robinsons were there?), I caught Mark's eye (maybe he though I was looking for him?) and he invited me to sit with him and have a beer. He was an absolute gentleman and not the least bit egotistical.

My opinion about the guy (if anyone gives a flip!) is that he's great one-on-one, but his public persona and marketing techniques just aren't for me.

Welcome to the pond, Mark! I guess I will have to go out today and buy one of your videos. The first one! Perhaps your initiative here has generated you a little royalty today.
Wish you a safe and successful season!

EZ

Good luck on your upcoming season. Thanks for taking the time to make your post. I hope you will not be a stranger and will continue to post as time permits so that we can benefit from your hunting knowledge and experiences.

[By the way, your writing style is classic and I would offer no apologies. Very akin to the standards and form used by the Wall Street Journal: short, direct, cogent sentences. It is instructive for all of us as writers. Sorry for the digression, but I could not let it pass unrecognized.]

Bravo Mark, good to see you share your heart and shed some light on your convictions as a hunter which are not everyone's cup of tea thus it gives room for those whose convictions differ to post their bias rhetoric.
As my mantra states below, "Condemnation before investigation proves ignorance."

Your marketing techniques are brilliant. You are the Lady Ga Ga of the hunting world, but please don't start wearing G-strings while guiding. There are limits.

Great letter. Thanks. I believe SCI has mistreated you and I hope they reconsider.

Mark welcome to AR. Glad to see another good old southern boy on here.
Wesley

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

quote:

Sensitive to the criticism that I shoot clients game “on their dime” I decided to experiment. I would not help a single client shoot his buffalo, except if one charged, and none did. The next three clients wounded five buffalo and all were lost. Each bull had an outside horn measurement greater than 40 inches with one I was sure would exceed 45 inches. All shots were standing broadside shots under 100 yards.

Hmm...

Thought the same thing; may have to wait a month for an answer. Hope the clients were privy to this tid bit of information.

Interesting how these threads go; this maybe appropriate;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ

Thank YOU Mark for the posting Now maybe the armchair idiots will go back to the rocks there where under and let use get back to talking about hunting and guns and fishing for crocs Has anyone seen Luan lately

A very interesting read. Concepts I will ponder, and reading and viewing to look forward to. Thanks
Rick

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
So, where are you in Alabama?

NW corner, I hope.

Northport.

I am not so sure about the love-fest going on here. I am with JudgeG in his comments. I see the videos, I talk to PH's that disapprove of his work and I see that SCI has booted him. SCI does not kick out people on a whim but usually based on facts. I am not a big SCI fan but it takes a lot to kick someone out.

To each his own on facing death. I think this a bit glamorous or self indulgent to view hunting as "him or me". There is risk involved but to seek life or death situations and to put hunters into that arena is not what I think is appropriate or what the hunter is truly after. I have never faced death from an animal nor do I care to. That is why I carry a gun versus a spear or knife. If I wanted to face death, I would go one on one with a spear for a " 10 foot" away experience with death.

I do not have an opinion on buff charges other than I have read that Saeed has taken more than 100 buff and never been charged. The three PH's I have hunted with have not experienced charges from buff as shown on Mark's videos. Each have several hundred buff under their belt. They told me that they make sure the buff is well shot and dead. Charges do happen, but I think not as often as depicted on camera by Mark Sullivan.

I have no real opinion on Mark and his methods or his sales techniques. I prefer others to hunt with, however.

I would be interested in Saeed's comments or Dave Fulson's.

Mark,
If you see Jerry Garcia sneaking up behind you with a K-Bar in his mouth, run or shoot. But seriously, welcome to AR and how about encouraging your clients to join and post their hunts on the "African Hunting Report Forum", it's been a little slow over there this year.

Welcome Mark to AR,as always all the best to you and your family,have a great hunting season,talk to you when you return........

""In 1997 I did not have a cameraman. Sensitive to the criticism that I shoot clients game “on their dime” I decided to experiment."

As early as 1997 you had earned that reputation? That can't be good.

Anyway, regardless of the other stuff, I wish you safari njema.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have no real opinion on Mark and his methods or his sales techniques.

Not to be argumentative, but your comments would strongly suggest the contrary.

I think we are often too judgmental as hunters. The hunters that do not hunt feeders, criticize those that do. The hunters that hunt open range, criticize high fence hunters. The hunters that like average distance shots, criticize those that like long distance shots. And the list goes on. The common theme is that we are all hunters and have more in common than what separates us. We ought to spend more time focusing on the commonality between us than the differences.

Mark-welcome to AR

I hope when you get back you will continue to post and share some of your hunting adventures.

Have a good hunt in Tanzania this year !

Mark-
Thank you for the post and welcome to AR.
I would differ from you on philosophy of DG hunting. The whole notion of an extreme sport such as, say, elephant hunting, implies a willing assumption of risk. Where I would take issue with you is on how best to manage that risk.
Intentionally allowing a charging, dangerous animal to get closer than necessary before dispatching it is not, to me, good risk management.
Shooting an animal badly ratchets up the risk. It also penalizes the animal, inflicting needless suffering. On balance, allowing the animal time to "stiffen" seems to be better risk management. I think it was John Taylor who suggested that the client should be allowed to smoke two cigarettes before following up a buffalo.
As an aside, I am disturbed that your clients shoot so poorly. Most of the gang here on AR take their shooting pretty seriously, and it disapoints when others do not shoot enough to be proficient and undertake a DG hunt. If you've never wounded an animal, you probably haven'y done a lot of hunting. I've certainly muffed a shot or two, but the consistancy of bad shooting you describe is surprising.

Again, managing risk is not the same thing as shrinking from it.
Best of luck on your season, and I look forward to seeing your posts in the future.

As a reference to the 21 feet as opposed to the 10 feet be it hunting or shooting...

some might find this interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

If you are going to play that "game" better to have wounded animals and bring enough gun.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Different strokes, I reckon.

I don't like Mr. Sullivan's videos and unlike him, I prefer hunting DVD's that don't have a shot-a-moment but which show the whole safari experience.

That said, I'm glad the gentleman responded to inquiries here. Each reader of his post can judge for themselves (by reading Mark's own words) a bit more about the man's character.

Previous to his post, I did not want to pay the premium required to hunt with Mr. Sullivan. His comments make me feel that my prior decisions were correct. I do find it troubling that his comments somewhat contradict each other (what I've seen in his videos, too) and he paints his clients with a pretty broad brush in his own defense. Still, I'll give the guy credit for at posting a response to Kim's querries. More power to him for that.

But, 10 feet from a charging buffalo/hippo before shooting?

Precisely my views as well.

We have some pretty "spirited" debats on this forum on the subject of ethics. That topic seems to generate a fair amount of passion, and more than its fair share of opinions. What is lost on many people is the legal boundaries that guide the outer limits of behavior are dependent on a number of fctors, like cultural differences, game control needs of the state, and as always public "feelings". Those public feelings are powerful influencers of regulation.

If one's methods, practices, tactics or techniques are within the bounds of what is legal in the area and related to the game, one may disagree personally with those methods, but one can hardly say they are "unethical" across the board. Ethics is something that boils down to the individual.

We do have organizations, such as the African PH organizations and organizations like SCI, that try to set ethics expectations for their members. Those rules tend to draw like minded people into their fold who agree to follow those rules.

SCI has been an abysmal failure on anything ethical. They have lost any credibility they have to preach when there are too many examples that they do not follow their own preachings. OOA is a shining example. Ethics not only involves the hunt itself, but the business pratices of those that promote the hunt. So when they end up effectively making a member an outcast when they have coddled, defended and ignored past transgressions of the likes of an OOA, they are rightly called to the carpet.

Don't expect a response. SCI long ago lost its way from being an organization for its members to an organization that revolves around the whims of its inner circle of rulers. They could give a crap about what we think - what is important is how SCI benefits those at the top.

With that said, I agree with the good Judge's sentiments. To further illustrate my thinking, I quote from MS's open letter:

quote:

I do not like killing. I do like hunting—there is a difference. Anyone can kill a wounded Cape buffalo standing his ground 40 yards away. In my opinion, to do so is killing. On the other hand, to walk up and let that magnificent animal decide how he is to die in battle is great hunting. If you lack courage that is something I cannot help you with. But to condemn me because I have the courage you lack is unfair and unjust.

While 90%+ of us here would agree that it is the hunt, and not the kill which ends the hunt, is who we are, the videos are a polar opposite. The videos are all about the kill and not the hunt.

We all understand modern day marketing, and what sells and does not sell. We get it. But be aware, that marketing can be a double edged sword, and profit motives can end up painting a very unflattering picture of just who we are. To want people to think one thing and to market the opposite is something that raises at least credibility issues as to just who we are.

And to imply that somehow a hunter that does not embrace your own technique and philosophy is somehow lacking in courage is, in my mind anyway, an insult. At a very basic level, it is nothing more than a school yard taunt to somehow make the messenger superior to those who disagree with him. I hope we are better than that, not only here, but as hunters.

That "borad brush" slapping around is painting men of unquestionable courage; men who have volunteered and served in wars and battles for various countries all across the world. To peg the measure of their courage on their personal views of hunting is really over the top.

And, to once more leverage the good Judge's observations, a 10 foot standard flirts with the boundary between courage and recklessness. Many of us have seen the "courage" of the reckless. They tend not to last long in battle, and any awards they receive recognizing their courageous deed are awarded posthumously.

Again, those are just my views and opinions. Part of the rich experience we enjoy here is the wealth of other views and opinions that differ from ours. Sometimes listening to others' perspectives changes or modifies out own views, sometimes not, and sometimes it downright pisses one off. But more often than not, you will find a host of like minded people here, some of whom you will eventually come to consider friends.

We welcome you to AR, and hope you continue to participate here. If this was a one time deal to get your position out in the public domain and get SCI's attention, you have certainly accomplished that and we again thank you for making your position known.

I have never hunted hippo (or any other dangerous game for that matter), yet, but 21 feet is too far to shoot a hippo? Wait till they are 10 feet away? Not me. They are dangerous game, not fatal game! Still, I wish Mark Sullivan a safe hunting season.
Peter.

Mark, if I had money to hunt in Africa, I will pick you as a professional hunter.

Oscar.

Well gentlemen, if nothing else MS is very consistent with his rhetoric! I see no change in what he has presented over the years that gained him the reputation he now enjoys, one he has earned IMO! I saw nothing in his comments that changes anything in my opinion of his practices, but frankly I didn't expect to!

On the issue of his expulsion from SCI, I do believe he deserves at least a hearing in front of the board to not only plead his case, but to receive a detailed explanation of the charges against him.

We can assume, but nobody here knows the truth of what he says about not being told the "WHY" of his ousting, but if that is true the rules in print for SCI were not followed.

If in fact he was told why, then because Mark Sullivan opened the door to public scrutiny, then SCI needs to post the explanation in print in the Safari magazine or even here on AR where the Mr. Sullivan's accusation of “non-disclosure” was lodged.

................However beating a dead horse is wasted sweat

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
The videos are all about the kill and not the hunt.

I can see how someone could say that, but I couldn't disagree more! You view the hunt as the camp, the staff, the experiences, animals seen, fun things that go on, the strategy, and then eventually the success of the hunt in a kill. Mark sees the hunt as how you get to the kill. To Mark the hunt is the process of how you kill them and that's what he features in his movies. I totally understand where you're coming from, but he really does care about his idea of "the hunt". If you read his book you will gain an understanding and appreciation for what I mean.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
SCI does not kick out people on a whim but usually based on facts. I am not a big SCI fan but it takes a lot to kick someone out.

Usualy.........unless the right person gets a bug up his butt and just doesn't like you. This seems to be the case in this situation. We aren't talking gross misconduct by an outfitter like OOA or Mulla which took DAMN NEAR FOR EVER FOR SCI TO ACT ON! We're talking about someone with power in SCI that has a bug up their butt and an agenda to get Mark out!

Brett

Mark
Welcome to the forum, everyone brings something unique to the party and I appreciate your contribution. I can't say that I agree with your philosophy but appearantly there are enough hunters who do so that you don't want for clients. Different strokes I guess. You are very clear and consistant in your views and your clients obviously understand what they are getting and are happy with it. I don't think that you and I would enjoy hunting together but we both enjoy hunting. If that doesn't make us brothers at least it makes us cousins. So, welcome to AR cuz.

TerryR

I have no reason not to beleive what mark says about the aligations on his hunting ethics,but after readig his letter all i heared was...Ok bwana, we just shot the biggest buffalo of your life ,let me tell you how you feel. For me this is the problem ,you always seem to come across like a professional wrestler.
Good luck with SCI, you deserve an explanation.

Max

All I can say is congrats on your marketing strategy, you have made 1 post on AR and when I use the search engine on AR it gets 1011 hits ! Amazing !

Only Mr Boddington beats you with 1453 hits, and the the only "legend" on AR (IMO) Mr Selby only get 444 hits.

@Brett the only resemblance I see with Ivan and Sullivan is that they like to hunt up close, I have never seen Ivan stand and wait and ask how the animal would die or have the "time" to stand and kick dirt against hippos so they can charge ? I have hunted with Ivan on a DG follow up and the only thing I can say is that he is very professional and and want the wounded animal dead asap.

Anyway

Välkommen Mr Sullivan

Anton

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mark:
Great to have you put the truth in the face of the transitory specks who were not worth your time in writing your magnificent reply.

Idaho and all the rest: I hope this is enough for you.

Best wishes, Mark, for a safe and successful season. Thanks for your price list you sent three hours ago. I hope we can hunt together someday.

Cheers,
Cal

Bloody hell!

We actually have hero worship here!

How amazing!

Have you missed all the Ivan carter and Crag Boddington posts?? :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mark:
Great to have you put the truth in the face of the transitory specks who were not worth your time in writing your magnificent reply.

Idaho and all the rest: I hope this is enough for you.

Best wishes, Mark, for a safe and successful season. Thanks for your price list you sent three hours ago. I hope we can hunt together someday.

Cheers,
Cal

Bloody hell!

We actually have hero worship here!

How amazing!

.................

quote:

Bloody hell!

We actually have hero worship here!

How amazing!