quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
We just kill Elk for the meat. Places I hunt are away from motorized traffic, so the Elk get big.

Thanks Brooks.

Rich
Abide...

ISS:

You are killing me here...

Let's understand what you are saying. You only kill bulls for the meat. Ostensibly, you don't care about antlers. And yet, by some miracle of miracles, you shoot a 350 bull, not once, but 28 of the 30 years you hunted!!! One must assume you never saw a spike, a raghorn, etc., because surely you would have shot any legal bull. After all, you were only after meat, right?

You remind me of another guy here who made some claims that when viewed under the window of common sense, didn't pass the laugh test.

Like Vinny said, you must think everyone here has stupid written across their forehead. I am actually beginning to think you are a little slow yourself. It is the only explanation for your bizarre behavior.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
A friend here asked me to let this go and get the focus back on MS.

I am going to do so.

One last thing, between us the word is "Abide".

Rich

You have a friend here?

I find that harder to believe than the elk claim!

A friend of a friend always would tell of the 150 plus class whitetails he would shoot. He also practiced quality deer management only shooting old bucks. Last year I had a chance to hunt whitetails with him and he shot a 10 pointer. I aksed what he thought it would score, he replied at least 150 and chimed in it was an old deer.

I asked if I could measure it just for yuks, it went about 125 at best and I am guessing it was 3 years old. Sometimes hunters will be hunters and love to tell a story.

BigB

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
john frederick,

I will again issue my request for you to post pictures of some of your DG trophies and relate the stories of your hunts for same.

Y'see I think you are a troll who does not have anything to contribute here except

I would love for you to prove me wrong, so please do so at your earliest convenience. I am certain I am not the only one here wanting you to share some of your vast knowledge and experience with us.

I am just on record with ONE Cape Buffalo, who cheated me out of an MS scenario by expiring rather quickly when I shot and killed him. I read RR when I was eight, and the logic behind suggesting "Use Enough Gun" was not lost on me.

I shoot more big bore rifles and rounds on an annual basis than most of you here. I can't afford multiple trips to Africa every year, I'm just a middle class guy with a penchant for large caliber rifles.

regards to all,

Rich
DRSS like the one in the picture...

Rich,

I know John Frederick personally, not just his internet persona, and can assure you he is no troll. He has more trips to Africa and much more experience than you do. Be careful challenging him, he may choose to take you up on it and make a bigger fool of you than you are making of yourself.

that would be impossible!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Not a problem shooting a 350 bull 20+ years in a row if you can afford White Mountain. You can go to Africa for that!
That is the only place I know you can consistantly see Elk that size.

EZ

i am not sure even the Apaches could get you a 350 elk 28 out of 30 attempts. one thing is for sure- it would cost you a LOT more than 2-3 big five hunts. for somebody who is just an average guy scrimping to save money to hunt in Africa, Rich is the luckiest SOB alive.

ISS,

You claim to be a 100% disabled veteran. But have the physical ability to get yourself back into country good enough to support killing 350 class bulls every year on public ground? (The mythical shangra La of elk country).

I've hunted and guided for elk on public ground in NM and Co most of my adult life. I've also personally killed upwards of 30 elk.

I've only ever seen a 350 class bull on the ground one time. And for those who have never seen one that is a huge bull.

Not trying to be judgmental Rich but something here just don't add up!

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
ISS,

You claim to be a 100% disabled veteran. But have the physical ability to get yourself back into country good enough to support killing 350 class bulls every year on public ground? (The mythical shangra La of elk country).

... Not trying to be judgmental Rich but something here just don't add up!

Mental illness is grounds for a medical retirement or disability.

So what we have here is another thread that went way of the course,, seems that happens a great deal, I re-read a bunch of this garbage thinking that there might actually be another post by MS that I had missed.For once I didn't get into the fray with Rich over his accomplishments. At least not yet. As far as someone shooting a horse and thinking it was a cow elk,,,
The old joke in Texas is,, "Ok lady,, it is your deer, can I take my saddle off of him.

I guess you haven't heard of horses...

Rich

Rich,
I'd like to know where in Idaho you hunt. I've hunted in the Chamberlain Basin and the Middle Fork for the last 35 years. Heading to the Chamberlain again in a couple of weeks. I've hunted early in the rut and hunted late in the snow. During that time, I've killed more than my share of elk and been responsible for the death of many, many more guiding other hunters. Most of the bulls (not all) have been branch antlered bulls; several were pretty fair bulls that now adorn walls in various locations. "None" have been 350 bulls. To shoot not one, but 28 350 bulls and then saw the antlers into pieces....sorry dude, gotta call bulls.....on that one....

ODay 450, and the rest of you,

If you served more than a year in I Corps, especially near or above the DMZ, you were exposed to Agent Orange on a daily basis out in the field. Two Air Force EM who rolled drums of the stuff onto the spray planes developed some health issues. They filed for Disability. The AF and VA were so sure they were trying to freeload that they commissioned a four or five year study.
The study found a number of debilitating and terminal health problems.

There are four basic areas of concern.

1. genetic mutation. A lot of deformed babies.
2. the Chloracne(sp?) problem. Vets have committed suicide over this one. In severe cases, it can actually eat away at the skin and subcutaneous areas. Not a pretty way to die gradually.

My two:

3 &4. The studies showed a huge increase in congestive heart issues and Type-II Diabetes. I get the two percentages confused, but one of them is 47 times the national average, and the other is 53 times for your demographic group. Enough so, that the VA ruled that they are "presumptive causes". If you were there, more likely than not the Agent Orange is going to kill you. It is just a matter of time.

This is the tough part, because I do NOT want to sound like a whiner. One of my Grandfathers lived to be 93, the other side 89. My Father farmed and worked in a steel mill most of his life. He lived to be 75+ and the cause of death was Prostrate Cancer that they traced to asbestos in the plant. My mother is 82 and still drives herself around.

She has a 50-50 chance to outlive me. I will be sixty-one this month, and I have an adopted brother two years older, that served in the same area I did in Vietnam. The doctors do not think he will make it much longer. This morning he told me they are giving him an over/under of three to twenty days. He has gone from 225 a year ago to 172 yesterday when the hospice nurse weighed him.

So yes, disability has a different face for every Veteran. If you are interested, look in the blue pages for a "Vet Center". They can tell you the whole story in detail.

As for me, I got no complaints. I enlisted in the US Army, and I volunteered for Vietnam. I served a total of twenty-five months and ten days there. Knowing what I know now, I would do it again. God, and Country, and Family.

I am nobody special, never claimed to be. Just an old soldier.

You can also figure out why none of the flack I catch here means diddly to me.

More information than you wanted...

regards

Rich
Army Ranger, RVN

Is posting whilst intoxicated even legal?

What is the record for posts on one thread anyway?

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
ISS,

You claim to be a 100% disabled veteran. But have the physical ability to get yourself back into country good enough to support killing 350 class bulls every year on public ground? (The mythical shangra La of elk country).

I've hunted and guided for elk on public ground in NM and Co most of my adult life. I've also personally killed upwards of 30 elk.

I've only ever seen a 350 class bull on the ground one time. And for those who have never seen one that is a huge bull.

Not trying to be judgmental Rich but something here just don't add up!

We spend May to November at our summer home in a little village in Arizona's White Mountains just a few air miles from the Apache reservation's boundary fence.

The only thing keeping those big bulls on the reservation is a low fence for cattle, which they easily and often jump.

Without really looking for them, I manage to see at least four or five bulls in the 350 to 375 range every year. If I could draw the $@!$#XC! tags to hunt them around our cabin, I could shoot a 350 every year, too.

Bill Quimby

Bill,
I bought, at the PHX chapter SCI fundraiser, 5 or 6 years ago, an archery "raghorn" 4 x 4 or less managment bull tag during the rut. I hunted three days and never saw a legal bull. I saw one that had to be over 400. He had 4th's that were 30" if they went an inch.

Guys from out of state would not believe the amount of huge bulls there. I also have a DVD given to me by the San Carlos tribe of a guy who bowhunts every year there passing on 375 and 380 bulls every day.

The San carlos has some relatively inexpensive tags for bulls up to 350, I think they are 7,500.00. A real discount when compared to the White Mountain Apache bulls.

Steve

Does anyone know of any hunter who has killed 26 350 class bulls?

Let's not drift off subject here into AZ bulls. The title of the thread is Mark Sullivan and we are discussing ISS's 26 350 class bulls that were shot for meat, with no proof, either in antlers, ivory, or pics.

AZ,

scare you to read that others are seeing the same size bulls and could have racked up an even better tally with tags? Not impossible if they were resident in Idaho for 30 years?

Rich

I do agree with your tag line, you probably are an orphan whose unwed mother kept the secret of your paternity.

Quimby
let us not forget where your cabin is located.. It's on the border of one of the most premier elk destinations in the whole continent where 350+ bulls do roam.. Idaho is not even remotely close to coming near the genetics of both the WM and SC rezs.
The only 350+ bulls I've ever seen come out of ID are on high fence put and take places...much less 26 of them from free range forest, roadless or not.
I had a premier tag for AZ last season in a unit that borders BOTH of the famous indian reservations.. having said that, I saw some absolute monsters scouting..even saw some in a few of the camps during the hunt.. Having that tag did not assure me success on a monster. It only gave me permission to hunt them for a week. It was a really tough hunt with the bulls bugling all night and then heading to the dark timber all day.. I never saw a 350+ bull during the whole hunt. I ended up with an OLD 5X5 that scored 310. I was still completely happy with the outcome and my old timer bull.

I am personally just happy that Saeed dosen't charge what this entertainment is actually worth.....

troy

Rich - 'twas only in jest; however, now we are on my turf and I must humbly disagree with your remembrance of research findings and fact.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: A report from the National Academy of Sciences that found "limited/suggestive" evidence of an association between the chemicals used in herbicides during the Vietnam War, such as Agent Orange, and type 2 diabetes.

The evidence of a link between exposure to Agent Orange (or dioxin, the problematic contaminant in Agent Orange) and diabetes is modest. Most of the association between Agent Orange and diabetes comes from studies of people who lived near or worked at manufacturing plants that produced large quantities of Agent Orange dioxin. In those cases, there appears to be some relationship between Agent Orange exposure and increased insulin resistance, the precursor to type 2 diabetes. In general the exposure that Vietnam veterans had to Agent Orange was much less than in the populations studied by scientists. Still, the VA has added diabetes to the list of conditions for which Vietnam veterans are eligible for disability compensation.

Re: Congestive heart disease. The VA does recognize a "presumptive" agent orange association with ischemic heart disease - one of the most common causes of congestive heart failure. This presumptive condition has only recently issued in a regulation allowing disability compensation (August 31, 2010.)

The Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences concluded in its report “Veterans and Agent Orange: Update 2008” released July 24, 2009, that there is “suggestive but limited evidence that exposure to Agent Orange and other herbicides used during the Vietnam War is associated with an increased chance of developing ischemic heart disease.”

In neither case have I been able to locate (and I did not spend much time searching) anything close to the overwhelming statistics posted. If the rate of illness was that great, it should not have taken 45 years to determine causality. Only a presumptive association has been published.

Note, I am not questioning your disability or health issues. I do however question the numbers quoted.

Who is Mark Sullivan, anyway?
Is he out there? Maybe he can true up this thread.
Bob

I know bugger all about elk, there aren't any in my part of the world.

Could someone please put things into perspective by drawing some sort of analogy?

For instance is a 350 elk equivalent to say a 100 lb ele, or a 60in kudu?

Maybe a 59" Kudu.

Understood, my thanks for setting the record straight. I was waiting for Azow to challenge me on that.

It was nearly eleven years ago that I got the findings from the Vet Center/VAMC in Boise. All I paid attention to was the fact that I was being forcibly retired because of BP and blood sugar levels and that RVN was the "presumptive cause".

We ran the Ho Chi Minh Trail about two to three days a week.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Understood, my thanks for setting the record straight. I was waiting for Azow to challenge me on that.

It was nearly eleven years ago that I got the findings from the Vet Center/VAMC in Boise. All I paid attention to was the fact that I was being forcibly retired because of BP and blood sugar levels and that RVN was the "presumptive cause".

We ran the Ho Chi Minh Trail about two to three days a week.

Rich

ISS:

So far no one has come forward stating they know anyone who has shot the number of 350 bulls that you have.

I don't know, nor have I ever heard of anyone who has shot 10 350 class bulls, and CERTAINLY no one on public land hunting by themselves.

You shoot a so so Cape buffalo and are super proud of that. Yet, you shoot a 350 class bull every year and we never hear about it? You don't have a single picture? Not a single rack?

Bill's position doesn't support you in the least. Notice he said, "If I could draw a tag." He can't. Therefore he has shown that it is impossible in the state of Arizona to do what you claim to have done.

I have hunted Idaho using packstring hunts, the best guides, etc. My guide doesn't take a 350 bull every year, but you do?

You are pathetic. I will make this promise: you show us 26 pics of you with 350 class bulls taken over the years and I will sign off here forever.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
I know bugger all about elk, there aren't any in my part of the world.

Could someone please put things into perspective by drawing some sort of analogy?

For instance is a 350 elk equivalent to say a 100 lb ele, or a 60in kudu?

I would guess it is the same as a 60lb elephant every year. They are shot that size every year BUT not by the same guy.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Lozano:

I would guess it is the same as a 60lb elephant every year. They are shot that size every year BUT not by the same guy.

And very few 350s come from Idaho. Most of them are found in AZ, NM and UT with a smattering in Colorado.

I have hunted the backcountry in the Selway-Bitterroot three times and saw only one bull of several dozen that MIGHT have been close to a 350 bull.

This thread is great! Most entertaining!

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
This thread is great! Most entertaining!

You know, for all the jokes we make about lawyers it has got to be a rush to be court when someone's testimony is just so far out in left field...

A 350 elk is about the same size as a 60 inch Kudu in weight but is a lot smaller than an elephant??? Also a 350 elk would be 290 bigger than a 60 inch Kudu. JF - do you live on another planet?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
I know bugger all about elk, there aren't any in my part of the world.

Could someone please put things into perspective by drawing some sort of analogy?

For instance is a 350 elk equivalent to say a 100 lb ele, or a 60in kudu?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Understood, my thanks for setting the record straight. I was waiting for Azow to challenge me on that.

It was nearly eleven years ago that I got the findings from the Vet Center/VAMC in Boise. All I paid attention to was the fact that I was being forcibly retired because of BP and blood sugar levels and that RVN was the "presumptive cause".

We ran the Ho Chi Minh Trail about two to three days a week.

Rich

being 50 plus pounds overweight will also elevate BP and blood sugar. and if you tell em you are not, then you have lost some significant weight since I saw you in Reno in Jan.

In the early 80's there were quite a few +350 bulls you could see during the rut (Archery season) in the Gila Wilderness, NM. Never a problem drawing a tag. Seldom did they even allocate all the tags allotted UNTIL ! TADA! The great white Elk Hunter "JIM ZUMBO" wrote about it in a sporting wrag and the following years and on there were 10,000 applicants for those 300 tags / unit. THANK YOU JIM ZUMBO!! You giant BOOB! We had 3 or 4 good seasons before our honey hole was revealed to the world. Sorry, this has been eating at me for 30 years; I know, I need to get over it.
It was still difficult getting close to a herd bull during archery season that would score 350, but they were there!

EZ

what a deal. Now we can get weight analysis here.
Shall I have the VAMC forward my medical records to you for a more complete diagnosis?
If this is the best you can come up with, you really need to rent a life somewhere; because you can't have one of your own.

Rich

i don't need VA medical records to know bullshit when i smell it.

Thanks, I never knew you were telepathic.

Rich

.,,...,.


(I edited my post to remove everything that would reflect poorly on me. All that was left was the punctuation.)

JB,

can't do that, there are five or six people here, just look at the few posters, who would not have any reason to log anymore. Of course, I have the bigger yappers on ignore; so I don't really read much of a negative tone.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
JB,

can't do that, there are five or six people here, just look at the few posters, who would not have any reason to log anymore. Of course, I have the bigger yappers on ignore; so I don't really read much of a negative tone.

Rich

Some of us cannot put members on ignore.
And for that we have to suffer all the silly personal arguments. Which really have no reason to be started in the first place.

Guys - Just for reference, below are 3 bulls over 350" I have shot in the past 2 years. Two of them in Colorado, one in Arizona. After elk hunting for the past 20 years, I think I have killed a total of 8 bulls over 350. I think I originally told ISS it was roughly 10, but I actually thought about it for awhile, and its only 8. I've guided roughly two dozen more. But to say that a "normal" guy like most of us could/would kill that many 350" plus bulls in 30 years?

Without having the big bucks to buy quality hunts/gov tags throughout the U.S., killing 26 bulls in 30 years over 350", in Idaho, IMPOSSIBLE! Especially when you are a meat hunter?

Killing 10-20 bulls over 350", one per year, would be quite easy, even in Colorado. If you could either draw the right tag each year, which is impossible, or if you could buy the right hunt/tag each year, it could happen. But ISS didn't do it!

2009 Colorado - 363" B&C



2009 Arizona - 380" B&C



2008 Colorado - 384"

ya but if you hunt with you mask and cape with FS(full of S--t) emblazoned on it and you have your membership to the super humans club you can get one every year while sitting in your room