quote:

Ninety-five percent of all wounded buffalo fall into the first category. Those that run will never charge. THEY ARE COWARDSey are cowards and no amount of campfire story telling will change that fact. The five percent that charge do not have to be taunted at all. The moment it sees you they charge.

I applaud Mark Sullivan for coming on here and facing criticism to make his point…

It probably would take more courage from me to do this than facing off with any dangerous animal…

Though I’m not sure if his personification of human traits on to an animal is really respecting or honoring your quarry…

To call an animal that is running on instinct in an effort to preserve its life a coward is asinine…bravado at the expense of the animal…the cost of pure exploit…

My .02...

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:

quote:

Ninety-five percent of all wounded buffalo fall into the first category. Those that run will never charge. THEY ARE COWARDSey are cowards and no amount of campfire story telling will change that fact. The five percent that charge do not have to be taunted at all. The moment it sees you they charge.

I applaud Mark Sullivan for coming on here and facing criticism to make his point…

My .02...

Applause is what he came here for, so I guess is wasn't a wasted trip!

.......................

Well, if 5% actually charge, then I should have been charged many times, having shot quite a few buffalo.

But, the facts speak for themselves.

If one shoots well - there is really no need to "seek danger, and look death in the face" - the buffalo do die without too much hassle.

It is amazing that literally hundreds of PHs hunting for so many years hardly ever get a charge.

Mark Sullivan seems to get them on demand.

He posted on August 7th. Today is September 2nd. That is barely enough time for one 21 day hunt. Either he isn't fully booked or he is coming back later.

As far as these charges, I have seen plenty of times when I shot a buff, hit it hard and had it run off a short distance and stop. These buffalo would almost assuredly charge if I went walking directly up to them. I don't do that. I choose how I want to die and it isn't by provoking some wounded bull! I shoot them as soon as I can get a shot. I don't go walking up to them invading their space. I don't think our friend Mr Sullivan operates the same way.

I don't fault him for going after the buff immediately. Where we differ is that I think he should shoot as soon as he has a reasonable shot and not let the buff suffer any longer than it has to.

I will be interested to hear his report on the season upon his return should he choose to post one.

Mr Sullivan, I've never met you, seen any of your videos, nor read your books. Therefore I have no opinion either way. However, I do respect anyone that has strong convictions with a passion for legal hunting. In the end, it is the hunter who hunts himself. Welcome to AR and continued success in the field.
LDK

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, if 5% actually charge, then I should have been charged many times, having shot quite a few buffalo.

But, the facts speak for themselves.

If one shoots well - there is really no need to "seek danger, and look death in the face" - the buffalo do die without too much hassle.

It is amazing that literally hundreds of PHs hunting for so many years hardly ever get a charge.

Mark Sullivan seems to get them on demand.

He gets them because he seeks them and entices them to happen.. He has plainly said that himself. There's no secret on why he has so many charges as opposed to other PHs.. He has made himself based on those charges. And yes, plenty of people pay big bucks to hunt with him because of that and that alone. If you don't like it or agree with it, continue NOT to hunt with him!! It's quite simple actually.

You do not get them because you do not seek them and do not entice the bulls to charge (a healthy plan most PHs follow!).

Why is this so hard for some to understand? MS himself does not hide the fact that he invades the bull's space and pressures it to "decide how he should die"..

Saeed, I'm sure that if you were seeking a charge from one of your numerous buffalo kills, all's you would have to do would be to walk up to the bull as soon as the 1st bullet was put into him.. walk head-long into him in his field of view and get into his space.. I'm sure your 5% rule would quickly go up exponentially from there on out!! But that is not how you hunt.. BUT IT IS HOW MS HUNTS!! NOW, we know that is not going to happen, BUT if it were, you too would have all the charges you (or the Vincents) would ever want to handle. Easy, eh?

It's all a matter of preference and sematics at this point, folks..

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, if 5% actually charge, then I should have been charged many times, having shot quite a few buffalo.

Nah. All those you shot were part of the 95% that do not charge.

quote:

Applause is what he came here for, so I guess is wasn't a wasted trip!

.......................

I'm no groupie...!

Poor choice of words on my part...

I have been told that only 5% of the buffalo charge. I've been on three buffalo hunts, two involved charges. One was a well placed shot and he turned and charged. It doesn't take long for a buff to cover 35 yards, last shot was less than two yards. The whole incident was about 10 seconds. The second was a non-wouunded cow. Her bull was down and dead and she wasn't happy. She tossed one of our tracker/skiners before she could be put down. He had a badly brused thigh and was fine in a couple of days. I don't know how you can hunt many tens of buff in the tall grass and never have a charge.......Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Well, if 5% actually charge, then I should have been charged many times, having shot quite a few buffalo.

But, the facts speak for themselves.

If one shoots well - there is really no need to "seek danger, and look death in the face" - the buffalo do die without too much hassle.

It is amazing that literally hundreds of PHs hunting for so many years hardly ever get a charge.

Mark Sullivan seems to get them on demand.

He gets them because he seeks them and entices them to happen.. He has plainly said that himself. There's no secret on why he has so many charges as opposed to other PHs.. He has made himself based on those charges. And yes, plenty of people pay big bucks to hunt with him because of that and that alone. If you don't like it or agree with it, continue NOT to hunt with him!! It's quite simple actually.

You do not get them because you do not seek them and do not entice the bulls to charge (a healthy plan most PHs follow!).

Why is this so hard for some to understand? MS himself does not hide the fact that he invades the bull's space and pressures it to "decide how he should die"..

It's all a matter of preference and sematics at this point, folks. .

We all understand how he gets them, but what seems to have eluded you is the fact that those buffalo he lets choose how they want to die, do not belong to Mark Sullivan, but to his clients! It is not a matter of preference, but a matter of selfishness! I don't think you will see Saeed shooting someone else's buffalo unless it was a real charge that had nothing to do with his provoking the buff so he could shoot it! IMO it is a preference, but it involves prefering to take something that doesn't belong to him!

One thing you certainly never see him do is provoke a lion! In fact, in his film "SUDDEN DEATH" you can see the fear in his eyes when he is about to go into the weeds with the lion the young boy gut shot! How come he doesn't let the lion decide how he wants to die?

I know there will never be a concensus on Mark Sullivan those that like what he does will not change, nor will the people who hate what he does change. You are correct if you don't want to supply him with targets, then don't book with him. I won't but that thought is a moot point because I can't afford to hunt with him if I wanted to, which I certainly don't!

That fact does not elude me at all, Mac. Quite the contrary,in fact.

The way I see it, folks can see fit how and WITH WHOM they want to spend their cash and time hunting with. If they want to have MS shoot their game, so be it.. Its no skin off my backside, nor yours.

The point of my initial post was easy to read and even easier to understand. Saeed seems to be lost in the fact that he has had few (if any) charges in his numerous foreays into the bush in search of buffalo. He seems to think that because HE doesn't get charged, then nobody should, nor should any buffalo perform such act. All I stated was that if you are indeed looking for a charge, it is in fact quite easy to find one. Most (myself included) would prefer not to.. MS has based his reputation upon them.
If that tickles your fancy, sign up.. If not, stop beating that dead horse laying in your pasture.

If you kill or disable them with the first shot, you don't need to pay MS to kill them for you.
But you probably won't be on the "Incompetent Clients 2010" video.

I guess those of us who can handle a DG rifle properly don't need MS to conduct a "how do you want to die" survey of wounded buffalo for us either.

Rich

quote:

I guess those of us who can handle a DG rifle properly

Rich,

Karma is a real bitch sometimes, With your limited experience I would hold fire on a comment like that.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

I guess those of us who can handle a DG rifle properly

Rich,

Karma is a real bitch sometimes, With your limited experience I would hold fire on a comment like that.

Steve

Bazinga

It's 20% for me and I've only had one buffalo charge. And that's after putting two through the lungs. Sometimes it happens.

I do not base my opinions on other people's. I base my posts on my experiences only.

I went, I listened to my PH, and I still do not believe a properly hit Cape Buffalo needs MS around to ask "how do you want to die?". Mine didn't.

Speak concerning your own personal experiences/shortcomings. If you didn't kill your animal cleanly, by yourself; tell me what your problem was. Try not to project your own failures on me.

Rich

It's funny, seems like the people who haven't done well on Cape Buffalo immediately need to salve their badly bruised ego by telling someone who did he doesn't have the stature to post an opinion. Are you all not capable of saying, "So far so good, or a just plain nice job...".

quote:

tell me what your problem was

Premature stamina problems

Nganga, what does that mean in English?

Try this. I shoot my Cape Buffalo. Dead right there Cape Buffalo. NO theatrics, no MS charge stopping heroics by my PH.

I killed mine, cleanly, by myself. What part of that do you have the most trouble comprehending?

You kill yours, all of you, as best you can. I'll stand pat on my record to date. If I choose to, I'll go back over and kill another one.

Rich
DRSS

The rest of you, tell me how well you did; not how I am not qualified to relate my own experience. Is the fact that I am a pretty good shot that difficult to digest?

I simply refuse to shoot a buffalo once, I brought 2 box's, I'm shootin two box's

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:
That fact does not elude me at all, Mac. Quite the contrary,in fact.

The way I see it, folks can see fit how and WITH WHOM they want to spend their cash and time hunting with. If they want to have MS shoot their game, so be it.. Its no skin off my backside, nor yours.

The point of my initial post was easy to read and even easier to understand. Saeed seems to be lost in the fact that he has had few (if any) charges in his numerous foreays into the bush in search of buffalo. He seems to think that because HE doesn't get charged, then nobody should, nor should any buffalo perform such act. All I stated was that if you are indeed looking for a charge, it is in fact quite easy to find one. Most (myself included) would prefer not to.. MS has based his reputation upon them.
If that tickles your fancy, sign up.. If not, stop beating that dead horse laying in your pasture.

Can you please show me ANY other PH who gets charged even a fraction of what charges he gets?

I have hunted with PHs who have been in this business a lot longer than he has, and without exception, they have an extremely low opinion of what he does.

I know, his supporters call this jealousy, but I can assure you it has nothing with jealousy.

They avoid charges because that is what a PH is supposed to do.

Doing all sorts of things to actually entice charges is nothing short of total unprofessionalism.

It is called Hollywood showmanship. And look where it has gotten him.

He claims he seeks danger and facing death.

can we see where he has gone after a buffalo or alion after it was wounded and has gone into thick bush?

Shooting an almost dead buffalo lying in the open is not facing death.

It is bragging "look what I can do"!

It has absolutely nothing to do with hunting.

What the owner said! Plus One!

Perhaps we can agree on a diagnosis, in MS case, of arrested development...?

Rich

I often read these pages and ask what dose getting lead around by the nose by an Professional hunter that finds your animals, cleans your game and prepares your trophies has to do with hunting. I have done a ton of hunting and have only been guided once (in Namibia). I have the shooting and hunting ability to be one of the great white hunters. I just don't have the bank account to support it. I have seen a number of people who seem to hunt because it is a status thing amongst their peers. Many of them would be totally lost with out a guide to hold their hand.

I am with Scottyboy on this one. If you want to hunt with Sullivan do it, if not, don't.

Just don't claim to be a great hunter if you have never truly done a DIY big game hunt 100% on your own. I can guaranty Mark Sullivan has.

MS hasn't done that yet. He has trackers, etc to get him there. And back up.

Does your expertise extend to Africa, or just in AZ?

not cross, just needing more data.

regards,

Rich

ISS; I have DIY hunted in AZ, CO, OH, WY and AK.

My only guided experience was in Namibia on a Plains game hunt. I fully understand that in Africa a guild/PH is mandatory.

From what I know of Mark Sullivan, he has hunted all over North America and on his own.

Two of my DIY hunt reports here on AR. http://forums.accuratereloadin...661017611#5661017611

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=445103349#445103349

Saeed,
I think you don't understand, the desired result IS the charge. I feel the same as another poster said, If you walk up to a wounded bull face up, aggresively, without waiting I think the odds go way the heck up. Why not try once this year and find out for yourself?

Rich,
Sometime shit just goes bad, In the book I have waiting to be published or self published (?) I have an entire chapter on f-ups. Am I a bad shot? Maybe. I once shot a red lecwhe in the Okavango Delta so many times, I ran out of bullets, I wound up drowning the poor thing by holding it underwater by the horns. We participate in a bloodsport that doesn't always produce desired results. I am glad you had a great first buffalo, and I hope ALL your buffalo go according to hoyle.

I couldn't kill a damn common duiker one time either, I wound up beating it to death with a mopane branch. I don't claim to be death on the run by any means, just a guy who loves Africa and the bush. My gunplay often winds up making interesting stories. When I don't get excited anymore it's time to hang it up.

Steve

That is some point blank, brutally honest and funny stuff Steve!

I cannot say this in any clearer English: If you do not like the way MS hunts, then do not hunt with him. The charges are there BECAUSE HE ENTICES THEM TO CHARGE. You keep bringing up the fact that your PH and those you know only have a fraction of the charges.. THAT'S BECAUSE THEY DO NOT ENTICE THEM. Can you understand that simple concept? It's not rocket science.

I am not advocating for the man. I am merely sick to death of seeing the same shit professed in each and every post the anti-MS posters make. If you do not like it, DO NOT DO IT. Nobody is telling you how to spend your money, whether it be given to you on a silver platter or you dug ditches your whole life to make the hunt. It's your hunt. Go with whoever you damn well please.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
That is some point blank, brutally honest and funny stuff Steve!

Will,
You and Tania come over some night, I'll have you either rolling laughing or crying, I'm no Davey Crockett.
Steve

BTW Will,
that DIY goat hunt you went on would max out 90% of the posters on the African forum (but that's a whole 'nuther pissin' match). Awesome hunt, bud!

I think Scottyboy has said the only thing that actually needed to be said on the entire subject. Nice job!

Steve. We will touch base and make plans as soon as I get back from SA, Can Scottyboy come over too? We need to go shooting and see if we get some practice, it would be a blast!

When do you go?

Next Thursday. Sept 9th, It is a sharp stick plains game hunt. We will be back just before the end of the month. When I get back I need to work with my .375 Ruger. I am going to take it on my Elk hunt in Nov.

quote:

I am merely sick to death of seeing the same shit professed in each and every post the anti-MS posters make.

Many of us are also sick to death about all these pretend charges Mark Sullivan gets into.

Again, what he is doing has absolutely NOTHING to do with hunting!

458 Lottfan,

The only guided hunts I have ever been on are in Africa.

I have killed a lot of Elk here at home in Idaho in the past 30 seasons. I cheat a little, I use horses.

I congratulate you on your great success. Seriously. You are doing it the right way in the US.

regards,

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I cheat a little, I use horses.

Rich

Mate, aren't the manes and lack or horns a bit of a give away?

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:
I cannot say this in any clearer English: If you do not like the way MS hunts, then do not hunt with him. The charges are there BECAUSE HE ENTICES THEM TO CHARGE. You keep bringing up the fact that your PH and those you know only have a fraction of the charges.. THAT'S BECAUSE THEY DO NOT ENTICE THEM. Can you understand that simple concept? It's not rocket science.

I am not advocating for the man. I am merely sick to death of seeing the same shit professed in each and every post the anti-MS posters make. If you do not like it, DO NOT DO IT. Nobody is telling you how to spend your money, whether it be given to you on a silver platter or you dug ditches your whole life to make the hunt. It's your hunt. Go with whoever you damn well please.

Scottyboy:

The correct word is "goad" - not entice and to goad an already wounded animal can hardly be accepted as being ethical.
In a nutshel the countless charges that our esteemed MS has encountered are through having "goaded" the animal beyond extremes.

And yes, if that is what rattles your nuts then by all means hunt that way - bullfighting in Spain got the chop just because the animal was purposely wounded and continuously goaded.

It all boils down to ethics and in attempting to put the animal down as quickly and humanely as possible. (IMO)

Mark you are a better man than i am, i would never have bothered with those that spend thier time speculating over the exploits of others with the benefit of hindsight while being completely devoid of the mettle and spirit required to put oneself in harms way, if i ever run into you my friend you're guaranteed a Cohiba.

Mark

Thanks for posting

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It is called Hollywood showmanship. And look where it has gotten him.

But that is the entire point of the videos! Showmanship! He is in the video selling business as much as he is in the PH business. He does what he does and he sells videos -- period.

I am willing to wager that his personna on safari is quite different from what you see in his videos.