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HEIN CONTACT?
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Grandview

Financing can come from anywhere. It can come from sales, from lenders, for gambling winnings, whatever. Many businesses finance new purchases with curent sales advances. Perhaps I should have been more specific in defining what I meant by the word financing.

Moreover, I stated a THEORY, not an argument.

I do agree 100 % that this thread is serving a good purpose to keep others from getting into the same trap as others have gotten into. In no way was I implying that this thread is wrong or that it should not be here. All I was stating is that a consequence of this thread MAY be that it has delayed further production.

I have stated, in agreement with you, that Mr. Hein has extremely unsound business practices. I used different words, but the meaning is the same.

And I agree that customers should not have to assess risk when dealing with businesses. The key word there is "shouldn't".
 
Posts: 7090 | Registered: 11 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 22WRF:
Many businesses finance new purchases with curent sales advances.


Very familiar with this aspect.......and it's germane to this thread.

Those sales advances come with a delivery guarantee......with severe penalties for non-delivery.
 
Posts: 768 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Yes there should be a severe penalty for non-delivery. I agree with that.

However, one thing is for sure. If you hang the guy now, he isn't going to finish his orders.
 
Posts: 7090 | Registered: 11 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I apologize to the people who have money deposited in this adventure for allowing myself to get sucked into this thread.

quote:
Originally posted by 22WRF:
However, one thing is for sure. If you hang the guy now, he isn't going to finish his orders.


As for the above statement.....

Until Jorge, or Howard, or any of the other principals, define what they think their obligation is, after having unwittingly become a "partner in business survival" by placing a deposit for product..........I don't have much sympathy for Hein.
 
Posts: 768 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 18 January 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmyd264:
quote:
Posted 22 May 2008 20:30 Hide Post
MHC TX

Thank you for your well thought out opinion.

But what if I am correct in my theory? If I am correct that Mr. Hein was undercapitalized and was relying on later orders to finance previous orders, then this thread basically cut some throats. Why/ Because this thread caused future customers to stop ordering, thereby causing Mr. Hein's financing to go down the tubes. And now there is no financing to finish previous orders. Again, I don't know if that is the case or not, but it certainly could be a possibility.



WRF, do you ever read what you type before you post here? What part of "THIEF" do you have trouble understanding. You are just the type of bleedin heart mother fucker that would try to defend the actions of some POS like Greg Hein, lets call a spade a spade,Greg Hein is a lier,cheat and a theif


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Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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What I have been told by a few in the biz is that a 50 pct deposit covers the cost of materials and the rest is labor. If this is true than gunsmiths like Hein have no excuse beyond.....


"A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius

375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB

Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa

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Posts: 858 | Registered: 27 October 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 22WRF:

I have clients every month who don't pay me. Last year I had one file for bankruptcy that owed me $8000. This year I have had 2 that each owed me more than $3000.

I have learned to just let it go because my doctor advised me that in type A presonalities there is a definite effect on increasing blood pressure, which over time can contribute to heart disease. My health is worth far more to me than money, and I don't have that much money.


Let me get this straight.

No one else should bother trying to get their money back from Hein because you have health problems from worrying about people paying you back?

Everyone should just stop trying to get their money back because it might raise their blood pressure?



That probably rates right near the top of the stupidest things ever said in a post on Accurate Reloading.


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

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Posts: 12764 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: 30 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
You misinterpreted the meaning of my words.


WRF, as I said above, maybe you should spend a bit of time re-reading what you type before posting.

Try to read this real slowwwwwww: I will try to make it clear so even you can understand.

Hein took deposits to build custom actioned rifles,what he has done with the funds is unknown, now he is trying to drum more business with more deposits, without compleating anything and outright lieing to the orignal customers,failing to answer questions or producing a finished product.
The funny part is you telling these folks whom have upward of 5K in deposits to back off and let Hein complete these projects.

maybe the best thing to do is to relax, have patience, and let the guy get these actions done and shipped rather than let this thing ruin your health.

My thoughts are, your postings would put you at the very top of the Darwin Awards
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 22 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Hein took money and more then two years later has not even started on my project. That is not cash flow issues that is just plain being to lazy to go to the shop and actually work.

After two years I am entitled to my conclusion that he has no intention of ever starting much less finishing my project. I know others who have come to the same conclusion. We have every right to come to that reasonable conclusion. It is not our job to protect other customers or Hein's "business", that is Hein's job.

Ol Blue, maybe with your vast business knowledge and experience you can advise Hein. First tell him to actually work in his shop on a regular schedule and put in at least a 40 hr week on production. Second on his cash flow problems, if its like you say you can advise him to lower prices and make up the shortfalls in volume. LOL


Howard
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Posts: 2341 | Location: Moses Lake WA | Registered: 17 October 2000Reply With Quote
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22wrf,

Get off this thread. You haven't added anything of value to it, and are effectively hijacking it by drawing the focus away from the problem Mr. Hein is having fulfilling orders after accepting large deposits.

George


 
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001Reply With Quote
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thank you George.

jorge,Howard and other customers, has there been any word from Hien or the attorney concerning this matter.
I would also think Hien could be charged with theft of the stock blank supplied by jorge, if not he should be. good luck guys.
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 22 February 2008Reply With Quote
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No word. There are other good folks from here that hein has deposits and blanks as well. If/when something breaks in the way of news, I'll let you guys know. I'll remain optimistic. jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Hein has apparently gone underground. Perhaps he feels a special kinship for earthworms.

This thread did nothing to damage his business. When the thread was started he had already lost his CNC. How he hopes to build actions on a hand mill is beyond me, unless he plans to work for $2 per hour.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Up until a year ago all Greg had was a manual mill. I believe up until about a year ago all Satterlee had was manual machines also.
They both were making actions by hand.
Being a machinist and owning my own shop I have no idea how they could afford to feed themselves and sell at the price they were quoting. Way to much hand work. Any time you have to grab for a file your profit goes to nothing.
I never talked to Satterlee but Greg seemed confident enough that he could do it so I went with him.
I can wait, I've got plenty of rifles. But I also understand that anybody that delivery is way past due on has every right to demand their deposit back.
This is all supposed to be fun for us.
For Greg, Satterlee and Granite Mountain it's not fun. It's how they eat.
If you came into my shop with an action and asked me to copy it only using manual machines, after I stopped laughing you would get a rough quote (very rough) of ten grand. I wouldn't ask for money up front but it would damn sure be COD.
 
Posts: 408 | Location: morgan city, LA | Registered: 26 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Well, the folks at Mauser did it with manual milling machines....course, they had sixty machines and sixty operators.
 
Posts: 2221 | Location: Tacoma, WA | Registered: 31 October 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by brad may:

If you came into my shop with an action and asked me to copy it only using manual machines, after I stopped laughing you would get a rough quote (very rough) of ten grand. I wouldn't ask for money up front but it would damn sure be COD.


Hmmm...I might take you up on that one day! Smiler

I have thought of finding someone who will make the 1895 Winchester action in a larger scale..taking the 500 Nitro or .577 Nitro. Wink
You wouldn`t have to send it COD...I`LL just slide thru town and pick it up...I know where I could find you...I`ll just go listing for the laughing... Wink


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Posts: 2805 | Location: Denmark | Registered: 09 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
When the thread was started he had already lost his CNC. How he hopes to build actions on a hand mill is beyond me, unless he plans to work for $2 per hour.


That is not true. When I visited his shop in April he still had it. In fact it seems as if his time was being spent on attempting to program it rather then working on his customers orders.


Howard
Moses Lake, Washington USA
hwhomes@outlook.com
 
Posts: 2341 | Location: Moses Lake WA | Registered: 17 October 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:

Yes there should be a severe penalty for non-delivery. I agree with that.
However, one thing is for sure. If you hang the guy now, he isn't going to finish his orders.


What the customers have done is give money,trust and more than reasonable time to fullfill the order, in other words they fed him all the rope he wanted, what WFH has done "ït seems" is to do all the self hanging from there.
I feel its not wise to speculate too much as to the precise reasons why things have gone the way they have,
however, if something looks,walks and quacks like a duck, good chance, well, you know.... Wink
 
Posts: 9434 | Location: Here & There- | Registered: 14 May 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jorge:
No word. There are other good folks from here that hein has deposits and blanks as well. If/when something breaks in the way of news, I'll let you guys know. I'll remain optimistic. jorge


jorge,

If he fails to reply to your lawyers letters, what happens next?

Regards,

Pete
 
Posts: 5684 | Location: North Wales UK | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Maybe the lawyers can step in and better describe the Schedule Of Events. Ostensibly, the court issues a judgment and then they can go after his assets. jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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jorge,

I wish you the best of luck and its a damned shame you've been forced to bail from this project.

I'm not sure what Hein thinks he will achieve by avoiding contact; it would be in everyones interest to settle this before it goes to court..

regards,

Pete
 
Posts: 5684 | Location: North Wales UK | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Howard:
quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
When the thread was started he had already lost his CNC. How he hopes to build actions on a hand mill is beyond me, unless he plans to work for $2 per hour.


That is not true. When I visited his shop in April he still had it. In fact it seems as if his time was being spent on attempting to program it rather then working on his customers orders.


Thanks for the correction - I misunderstood.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete E:

If he fails to reply to your lawyers letters, what happens next?


If the complaint is not answered in the statutory time period, then a default judgment is entered. The default judgment is served, and then the attorney can begin to enforce against assets. That can include loading equipment into a moving truck and hauling it off for auction.

Attorneys fees and out of pocket expenses are charged to the debtor during this process, often resulting in him paying 2x. 3x or 4x the original debt due to his recalcitrance.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:

If the complaint is not answered in the statutory time period, then a default judgment is entered. The default judgment is served, and then the attorney can begin to enforce against assets. That can include loading equipment into a moving truck and hauling it off for auction.

Attorneys fees and out of pocket expenses are charged to the debtor during this process, often resulting in him paying 2x. 3x or 4x the original debt due to his recalcitrance.


Lets just hope he has sufficient assets that he is motivated to pull his head out of the sand.


Howard
Moses Lake, Washington USA
hwhomes@outlook.com
 
Posts: 2341 | Location: Moses Lake WA | Registered: 17 October 2000Reply With Quote
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Well, the ball's in his court as of today, legally speaking. He has 20 days to respond...jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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TTT
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 22 February 2008Reply With Quote
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No new news. Still in a holding pattern here.

Legally Hein has 14 more days to go.


Howard
Moses Lake, Washington USA
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Posts: 2341 | Location: Moses Lake WA | Registered: 17 October 2000Reply With Quote
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Expect to hear on the very last day. If at all.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
Expect to hear on the very last day. If at all.


So if he continues to ignore is a "default judgment" issued and we can collect? jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Jorge,
You will have to find some unprotected assets to have the court attach.
Butch
 
Posts: 8964 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Jorge, yes, with Butch's qualification. For example, you cannot execute against someone's IRA.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Yes this post is partially a ploy to keep this thread going for my satisfaction, but also as a warning to others to choose your custom Gunmaker wisely.

I went to the range today and shot my 416 Rigby. I was in a "Big Bore Frame Of Mind" so I decided to shoot the Ruger, something I had not done since the summer of 05. Back then I was aiming at ol' M'Bogo, deep in the jess of Dande North.

I took the scope off (Warne rings) and took a couple of off-hand shots at 25 yards at a 2" orange bull. Both shots were to the right & left of the black 1/4" center, maybe a half inch apart. Perfect.

Next, I re-attached the scope and this time, off the bench at 100 yards three shots. They all three in a nice cluster, about 2" high. Right where I had it ten thousand miles away and seemingly the same number of years ago.

It's not a custom rifle folks, although it has been meticulously tuned by Mark Penrod and it sports a nice white beaded front sight from NECG and I had the engraved centerline of the rear "V" inletted in gold leaf. The funny thing was when I squeezed that first shot with the scope, I could hear John Sharp's piercing whistle that "froze" my buffalo enabling me to deliver a shoulder shot.

Why am I writing this now? Well, it was a vain attempt to feel good in the light of this Hein fiasco and just for an instant, it worked. jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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jorge, glad it helped, there is not much anyone can say or do that will help with everything you folks have been put through. Hopefully repayment will be coming but that is only a very small part in being satisfied.

The custom gun build is a dream one puts thier heart and soul into and you folks have been deprived of that. Best of luck and keep this post up top.
 
Posts: 124 | Registered: 22 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Yikes!

It's a tragedy.

jorge's on his way to Africa to kill animals, and his new rifle won't be here on time.

Is he gonna have to shoot some generic rifle?

Okay, it's true, it's true.

Mainly, jorge has a couple of safes full of rifles, but, well, it was his dream, his dream, to shoot these brand new custom rifles that nobody has or can afford on his dream safari to Africa.

He wants to stand in Hemmingway's shoes.

I've been avoiding this thread--I know nothing about Hein--but I am here to tell you jorge doesn't really want his Hein action for a Safari, what he wants is to be a novelist.

Most recently, we've been blessed with some rich prose about shooting his Ruger.

Delightful!

I'm sorry.

I'm not at all certain about the need to go to Africa and kill animals.

I can understand the desire.

But I am here to tell you that if you're bent on Safari, any gun will do.

I'm a fourth generation California native. Which means my ancestors crossed the Plains in '49. When my grandmother taught me to catch trout in those gin clear Sierra streams, she let me know that there was more to fishing than catching fish.

It certainly wasn't about gear.

And it wasn't about catching.

In contemporary terms, it was about process.

Sneakin' up on those trout.

In fly fishing terms, the delicacy of presentation.

Just being there, being able to identify the species around, and an appreciation of natural beauty.

In my world, a hunter will take whatever rifle comes to hand. It doesn't have to be a Griffin and Howe.

He hunts for the pure pleasure of it. With an appreciation for nature and whatever limited time he's able to spend in natural surroundings.

A trophy is nice, but..., well, important mainly for rich Americans.

I am an absolute sycophant of Duane Wiebe and his rifles, but have to think that way too many of our contributors want to make a made for TV movie out of their Safaris.

In my view, killing an animal is best kept between you and your guide and the animal.

Keep it to yourself, like religion.

If you feel the need to make a novel--or a non-fiction story of your safari--it's not about hunting, it's about you.

I love beautiful rifles, and have spent way too much time trying learn to make them.

I'd like to see more of this on our Gunsmithing forum.

I am way too tired of hearing from clients who don't want to wait for a custom rifle.

Because, as I've suggested, a real hunter will take whatever rifle comes to hand.

Because it's about hunting. Not about whichever rifle you're hunting with.

flaco
 
Posts: 674 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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This is an interesting point flaco, but I think there is a middle ground here, if we can agree to put aside the machinations of contract law for a moment.

For a very, very long time (probably even before the crossing of '49 for your people) man sought to kill his prey with weapons of his choosing that he can depend upon to accomplish his goals.

Taking note of your term process,, we can all probably agree that there is a degree of ritual in the process. Herein lies the status of the custom rifle; it is a ritualistic hunting tool imbued with the tastes of its owner and the blood of those is has killed.

So, I see it both ways - if Jorge wishes to author the next Great African Novel more power to him. He ought to do it with a rifle that suits him.

But I see your point and agree with lots of what you say here.
 
Posts: 2267 | Location: Maine | Registered: 03 May 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
I'm a fourth generation California native. Which means my ancestors crossed the Plains in '49. When my grandmother taught me to catch trout in those gin clear Sierra streams, she let me know that there was more to fishing than catching fish.



well, now... who wants to be a novelist?

Wink
 
Posts: 3314 | Location: NYC | Registered: 18 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by flaco:
Yikes!

It's a tragedy.

jorge's on his way to Africa to kill animals, and his new rifle won't be here on time.

Is he gonna have to shoot some generic rifle?

Okay, it's true, it's true.

Mainly, jorge has a couple of safes full of rifles, but, well, it was his dream, his dream, TThat is exactly right. You should have stopped there. IT IS HIS DREAM, what's wrong with having a dream and taking steps to have it fulfilled? to shoot these brand new custom rifles that nobody has ABSOLUTELY WRONG or can afford WRONGER on his dream safari to Africa.

He wants to stand in Hemmingway's shoes.That's your opinion and even if it were true, what's wrong with that? You whole post is shot through with a degrading tone, why is that?

I've been avoiding this thread You should have gone with your first instinct.--I know nothing about Hein--but I am here to tell you jorge doesn't really want his Hein action for a Safari, what he wants is to be a novelist.Again, assuming it's true, so what?

Most recently, we've been blessed with some rich prose about shooting his Ruger.

Delightful!

I'm sorry. You should be sorry you posted this drivel.

I'm not at all certain about the need to go to Africa and kill animals. So why are you pontificating on that of which you have little knowledge and apparently no experience?

I can understand the desire.

But I am here to tell you that if you're bent on Safari, any gun will do. Well....doh....just as any car will do for basic transportation....some can afford a larger, faster, better car......you seem to have a problem with other's choices which are none of your business.

I'm a fourth generation California native. Which means my ancestors crossed the Plains in '49. When my grandmother taught me to catch trout in those gin clear Sierra streams, she let me know that there was more to fishing than catching fish.Now who's the novelist?

It certainly wasn't about gear.

And it wasn't about catching.

In contemporary terms, it was about process.

Sneakin' up on those trout.

In fly fishing terms, the delicacy of presentation.

Just being there, being able to identify the species around, and an appreciation of natural beauty. Pray tell, how does having a custom rifle in your hands interfere with any of the above?

In my world, a hunter will take whatever rifle comes to hand. It doesn't have to be a Griffin and Howe. "In my world".....you should realize that "your" world is not "the" world and others may have differing and equally valid ways of accomplishing their goals, hunting or otherwise. What a self-centered post!

He hunts for the pure pleasure of it. Again, having good or expensive equipment does not distract and may well enhance the pleasures of the hunt. Why take an expensive down bag on a mountain sheep hunt, when you could probably survive with a couple of blankets? Geesh. With an appreciation for nature and whatever limited time he's able to spend in natural surroundings. So, in "your" world, having a custom rifle in your hands inhibits a hunter's ability to appreciate nature?

A trophy is nice, but..., well, important mainly for rich Americans. This has class envy written all over it, how many people in "your" world hunt for subsistence? A trophy is a memento of a hunt and is found in almost all societies and damn sure is found in all of them who pay for an African hunt.

I am an absolute sycophant of Duane Wiebe and his rifles, but have to think that way too many of our contributors want to make a made for TV movie out of their Safaris.

In my view, killing an animal is best kept between you and your guide and the animal. That's your view, so......

Keep it to yourself, like religion. Good advice, you should follow it yourself.

If you feel the need to make a novel--or a non-fiction story of your safari--it's not about hunting, it's about you.So......

I love beautiful rifles, and have spent way too much time trying learn to make them.

I'd like to see more of this on our Gunsmithing forum.

I am way too tired of hearing from clients who don't want to wait for a custom rifle. Well, the obvious solution is not to read this and other related threads.

Because, as I've suggested, a real hunter will take whatever rifle comes to hand. There you go again, so a hunter using a custom rifle is less "real" than one using a factory rifle? Perhaps in "your" world?

Because it's about hunting. Not about whichever rifle you're hunting with. As you yourself said, "In contemporary terms, it was about process." and planning and obtaining a custom rifle tailored for you and the game you hunt is part of the process. You should do it your way and not attempt to degrade those who have another process.

flaco


xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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Well it's certainly nice to receive a gratis psychoanalysis. Gatogordo said it quite well, only a lot less caustic than I would have been. I guess it must be because my ancestors had it easier than your did. All my grandmother did was spoil me and among other things how to dress for dinner and to be understanding and patient( That didn't work). I feel deprived...

I also see "flaco", you left out completly the locus of this post which was "be careful how you pick a gunmaker".

A novelist? Did I mention that our beach house in Cojimar was right next to Hemingway's and that my family knew him quite well? I was wearing diapers and blowing spitbubbles at the time so darn, I missed out on some literary tips. But just so you don't feel like you were all wrong about my psyche here's a link to my attempt at literary immortality:"going For The Big Stuff". And yes I do have an ego. Guess it comes with being a tailhook Naval Aviator and a big watch.

Anyhow, like I said up front, my post was merely to keep this thread alive and it appears I have succeeded... jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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jorge, I think that you did not make a mistake in choosing your custom gunmaker, because when you placed your order Hein had produced several very nice rifles and had a good reputation. Since then, however, the wheels have fallen off the wagon.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
I've been avoiding this thread


Dang, Flaco! Looks like you fell a little short of that mark, as well!


Rusty
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----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836
"I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841
"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
 
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