quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
sorry - as I said in the begining - not going to be drawn into this again - but to clarify - selling a gun to someone and then not explaining that the gun has ejectors is akin to selling a parachute without showing the purchaser where the pull handel is.
but i will stick to purchasing guns where the maker has no record - bad or good on after sales service - because the guns dont need repairs. Experience makes you a wiser person.

SBB,

Not to out to fine a point on it but what kind of a FUCK WIT wouldn't know that his rifle has ejectors?

Did he not verify that the rifle was sighted by firing it when he arrived in camp. What kind of a lush, soft, city boy comes to Africa with a rifle he's never fired? What kind of a PH doesn't have his client fire his rifle when they get to camp? What kind of a idiot wouldn't be able to adapt to his rifle in about 30 seconds whether it ejected or extracted? It sounds like you are running a day care supervised by a school marm rather than a hunting outfit. Jesus Joseph and Mary what a blue blooded mamby pamby little wuss you come across as!

Right, you are, Mac!

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
sorry - as I said in the begining - not going to be drawn into this again - but to clarify - selling a gun to someone and then not explaining that the gun has ejectors is akin to selling a parachute without showing the purchaser where the pull handel is.
but i will stick to purchasing guns where the maker has no record - bad or good on after sales service - because the guns dont need repairs. Experience makes you a wiser person.

SBB,

Not to out to fine a point on it but what kind of a FUCK WIT wouldn't know that his rifle has ejectors?

Did he not verify that the rifle was sighted by firing it when he arrived in camp. What kind of a lush, soft, city boy comes to Africa with a rifle he's never fired? What kind of a PH doesn't have his client fire his rifle when they get to camp? What kind of a idiot wouldn't be able to adapt to his rifle in about 30 seconds whether it ejected or extracted? It sounds like you are running a day care supervised by a school marm rather than a hunting outfit. Jesus Joseph and Mary what a blue blooded mamby pamby little wuss you come across as!

Always try not to use foul language when communicatng in the writing but that is just tooooo Funny!!

Surestrike,

man, don't sugarcoat it; tell what you are feeling inside...

Rich

It cracks me up that you guys are going on about this guy not realizing that his rifle had ejectors. Sort of careless on the consumer end but not totally unique. Now imagine this same customer goes to Africa without shooting his new double rifle and when he gets there discovers that it was delivered with no front sight! I know that stuff happens. I consider myself pretty flexible and adaptable to many situations...But that would be a deal breaker. It's about confidence in your equipment. If that was my rifle I would always have in the back of my mind...What else is wrong with this rifle? Before everybody jumps on me with both feet, I know that it is the customers responsibility to check over his rifle, shoot and become familiar with it before they ever got on a plane to Africa or anywhere else to go hunting.

I have been contacted in private and told that I should contact conco arms as they have a lot of info on Searcy Doubles - anybody else know anything further on this ?

Tommyhawk , have you noticed the same club of clowns respond and then back slap each other for being so bright !!
The hunter tested before but if you know anything about DR's then you would be aware - some hunters open the DR gently and dont all pop out the rounds, which is what our hunter was doing . At this childcare centre we do all the little things you think you are so smart coming up with . But what I realized is this a club of " i wish we were ...., they talk and talk and talk in the hope someone will think they have something meaningfull to say or live a meaningfull life. Just very sad if you ask me .

SBB,
We would all be as horrified as you if we were in your place.

Well, this my "first" reply on this thread, and i'd say ANYONE who goes hunting with a DR and doesn't know if it had ejectors or not, is a total idiot!

He obviously didn't shoot/practise with it enough to be out in the field with it.

DM

I think the Searcy supporters are taking this way to personally.

Look, it's okay if some guys don't like a Searcy double. Some guys don't like Krieghoffs. Most of the traditionalists hate the Blaser. I have a good friend who wouldn't give you a plug nickel for a Heym. Ford or Chevy. Heck, buy what YOU like. After all, it's your money.

One thing to note. I think that you are going to be seeing less and less Searcy doubles being bought buy guys on AR simply because the entry level Searcy classic double is now $18,000. That makes the continental guns (Merkel, Krieghoff, Blaser, Chapuis, Verney-Carron) look so much more affordable. With the new rising bite action, I think that Searcy is attempting to enter a different market niche.

Safari Botswana Bound,

Graeme,

you aren't trying to crawfish on our deal for you to sell me that Searcy for $650 and I pay to get it back here are you? I talked with folks in the US who can get it to me legally.
There is actually a plan evolving to accomplish that as I type.

I would like you to PM me with the serial number of that clunker so I can get the paperwork started with the two fedguv agencies I need to deal with here.

best regards, and thanks again

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I think the Searcy supporters are taking this way to personally.

Dave I don't think this discussion with SBB has anything to do with Searcy rifles at all except on his side of the conversation.

You could change the name on the rifle to Holland& Holland and the conflict would be the same with SBB's blaming the maker of the rifle for the owner not knowing his new double rifle was fitted with ejectors!

I can assure you this joker did not practice with this rifle before going to Africa, because if he had, he would have known the rifle had ejectors. I could understand SBB's concern about a client coming on Safari with a rifle meant for dangerous game, without ever practicing with the rifle. That is what would concern me,because a man with a rifle he is not familiar with is a danger to himself, and everyone around him. The thought wouldn't have crossed my mind to blame the maker of the rifle, for a bone head client coming to hunt with an unfamiliar rifle! That is just dumb, no other way to say it.

quote:

Look, it's okay if some guys don't like a Searcy double. Some guys don't like Krieghoffs. Most of the traditionalists hate the Blaser. I have a good friend who wouldn't give you a plug nickel for a Heym. Ford or Chevy. Heck, buy what YOU like. After all, it's your money.

You are quite correct! A person should buy what they want, simply because it is what they want,and/or what they can afford. No mater what the client hunter wants or can afford, that fact doesn't obsolve him of being propecient with his rifle before coming on safari,even more so if dangerous game is invloved. That has absolutely nothing to do with who made the rifle.

Before SBB makes his assumption that I don't know anything about double rifles, let me put his mind at ease! I bought my first double rifle in 1958 when I was 21 yrs old, and have owned at least 30 double rifles since that first one. I have hunted with every one of them, and today I own seven double rifles and all but two of them have been to Africa hunting Cape buffalo. However I can assure SBB that I never went on Safari with a rifle I didn't know all there was to know about it.

I go into the weeds with dangerous game as if I were by myself, because there is no law that says the PH is not going to be the first one hit, and it may be left up to me to shoot the buffalo off his butt. None of this has anything to do with the maker of my rifles. His balls are not on the line when the crap hits the fan! Any PH who doesn't understand that is, IMO, not much pf a PH!

quote:

One thing to note. I think that you are going to be seeing less and less Searcy doubles being bought buy guys on AR simply because the entry level Searcy classic double is now $18,000. That makes the continental guns (Merkel, Krieghoff, Blaser, Chapuis, Verney-Carron) look so much more affordable. With the new rising bite action, I think that Searcy is attempting to enter a different market niche.

You are probably right about the volume going down on sales, but those rifle require more time as well, and the extra features will take up the slack! As well, I think even if buying even a $5K double, the buyer needs to make sure HE knows what he is buying, as you say it is his money, and his butt on the line, not the maker's.

I certainly doubt the maker of SBB's Remchester bolt rifle didn't call him up to tell him all the features of his new rifle when he pulled it out of the card board box. The instructions were in the paper work that came with the rifle, and it was up to him to read them.

Enjoying this immensely please do carry on!! Stiff upper lip everyone!!!!

What horseshit................

An old Aussie Academic here.Yes- there are old academics who shoot.
After reading some of the comments here I remember a book( a book- not a text !) from undergraduate days:Thorsten Vebleins A Theory of the Leisure Class.In it he writes about Conspicuous Consumption. His theme was that as soon as someone had made a good deal of money they wanted to show it off by consuming conspicuously with items which didnt make them happier or which worked any better than less expensive items but which did show they had money to spare.In short , they wanted to show off.
It doesnt take very much imagination - or good sense - to see that Veblein would have said that Searcy rifles are good , functional and perfectly serviceable firearms and that many of the more expensive brands are nothing more than conspicuous showing off by their owners.
In this discussion it seems to me that Searcy rifles embody much that is good : sound , well made with some care and concern for established engineering principles.
Let me precise what I have said : if I didnt want to show my wealth I would buy a Searcy.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
What horseshit................

I am reminded of two sayings.
1. If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all.
2. It is better to have everyone think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
I'm curious. Does Buliwyf mean that you 'bully your wife' or does it mean you are a 'bully wife'?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miers:
An old Aussie Academic here.Yes- there are old academics who shoot.
After reading some of the comments here I remember a book( a book- not a text !) from undergraduate days:Thorsten Vebleins A Theory of the Leisure Class.In it he writes about Conspicuous Consumption. His theme was that as soon as someone had made a good deal of money they wanted to show it off by consuming conspicuously with items which didnt make them happier or which worked any better than less expensive items but which did show they had money to spare.In short , they wanted to show off.


"Mans natural yearning is to better himself."

I loved my Searcy 470 (ejector model! ) and wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I were going to use a double. I'm just better with a bolt gun...

quote:

Originally posted by craig boddington:
I suspect Butch Searcy has made more double rifles than any other one man alive today.

How many would that be?

My guess: more than three hundred, on the conservative side.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Safari Botswana Bound,

Graeme,

you aren't trying to crawfish on our deal for you to sell me that Searcy for $650 and I pay to get it back here are you? I talked with folks in the US who can get it to me legally.
There is actually a plan evolving to accomplish that as I type.

I would like you to PM me with the serial number of that clunker so I can get the paperwork started with the two fedguv agencies I need to deal with here.

best regards, and thanks again

Rich

Idaho- not so sharp - shooter
For some reason my posts to you have not gone through - but basicaly it said the firarm was bought for $6500-00 and a game debt of $4000-00 - so for $10 000-00 its yours - so as your grandpappy said pay or shit .

In case the comedy club wonders why no more responses or bites from Safaris Botswana Bound to any future posts on this thread - its now just boring repettion - so not going to come back here to see the same clown comments - which centre on people instead of the issue which is that a reknown gun writer is not impressed by Searcy's doubles - and I, and it seems many support this sentiment with proof which is what Searcy challanged this thread to provide.
Graeme Pollock

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
In case the comedy club wonders why no more responses or bites from Safaris Botswana Bound to any future posts on this thread - its now just boring repettion - so not going to come back here to see the same clown comments - which centre on people instead of the issue which is that a reknown gun writer is not impressed by Searcy's doubles - and I, and it seems many support this sentiment with proof which is what Searcy challanged this thread to provide.
Graeme Pollock

About time you left douche bag….we all knew you would head for the hills again now that your credibility has been once again determined to be worthless.
Good call Idaho….he tells the whole world that his Searcy is worthless until you offer to buy it…then suddenly it is worth $10 Grand.

Miers,

If Veblen were a hunter (and he very well might have been given his rural upbringing) he would likely have thought double rifles generally were articles possessing only "honorific costliness" and not much more relative to a proper black powder single shot, a shotgun with buckshot, or eventually a Mauser 98. What else would a frugal Norwegian American (living in rural Wisconsin!) have hunted with? Surely not a high dollar double.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato,_Wisconsin

Not to Support SBB in any way, but if I had a rifle that was under any sort of guarantee and I called the maker and said there was a poblem and he said...get it back to me and I'll sort it out- My answer would be to run his name into the ground for failure to uphold his deal. There is almost no way for me to legally return a firearm to Europe or the USA - and then get it back again once the repairs are done.

I personally have been waiting for an export permit since 2002...I unfortunately made the mistake of doing everything 'legally'. The pistol has been fixed but cannot be returned until the government changes and is, as such, impounded. Even if I lived in Botswana or Mozambique, the legalities and paperwork to ship a firearm are alot more than a plane ticket for somebody to come out!!!

Since that isn't exactly an easy option - it might be a 2 minute fix, who can I send it to who will check what the problem is, repair up to makers satisfaction if possible or tell maker he needs to go through all the hassel and expense of getting the import permit and supporting documents and actually shipping it.

I do know that a recent wranty claim on a rifle in zim cost $3700 return including the transport in an armoured car from Bietbridge to Johanesberg (as required by the south african Authorities)...

In Brief, any rifle maker wwho issues guaranteees on his rifles and sells it to a PH in Africa had better have an African Gunsmith who he can get to check any problems, fix minor prblems, tell the owner to take a hike if it is caused by something the owner has done etc...

It is also why I try and encourage PH's to buy their rifles new...and ensure the wanranty is in their name. Sure, it is easier and alot cheeper to get a client to bring it, but if there is a comeback...there is backup. (May I also note that the firm in question in the recent Zim example arranged for the PH to be loaned a suitable rifle while his was being fixed... )

Rich...SBB didn't buy the rifle from the maker...so there is no waranty expressed or implied I think is the legal term....

And you are right about H&H not offering a gunsmith service in Africa... but they have an agent though who aranged the shipping to a gunsmith they trusted in SA who said...yup real issue...and they took it back to the UK from there. Of course they will never admit such a thing...like a Rolls Royce never breaks down...the customer is merely unaware of all the features is simply entertained while the technicallity is adjusted to his specification

And you are right though...it has been a kuk week and I thought the brown stuff needed a stir...We must actually sit down to a beer one day...Doesn't Phill owes us a crate? I vote we split it in the zambezi valley.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Rich...SBB didn't buy the rifle from the maker...so there is no waranty expressed or implied I think is the legal term....

And you are right about H&H not offering a gunsmith service in Africa... but they have an agent though who aranged the shipping to a gunsmith they trusted in SA who said...yup real issue...and they took it back to the UK from there. Of course they will never admit such a thing...like a Rolls Royce never breaks down...the customer is merely unaware of all the features is simply entertained while the technicallity is adjusted to his specification

And you are right though...it has been a kuk week and I thought the brown stuff needed a stir...We must actually sit down to a beer one day...Doesn't Phill owes us a crate? I vote we split it in the zambezi valley.

I had better come along to act as referee!

465H&H

Hah!! Phil was at SCI Reno, showed up at the Giraffe Bar, and bought a round. You were otherwise engaged...

What about we compromise? Meet me in Ellisras/Laphelele (SA) any day between April 9th and the 22nd. Or at Afton House the evening of the 22nd.

Get SBB to send the Searcy down and I'll pay you and figure out how to get it back here. Make that deal and I WILL bring 465 H&H along to chaperone me.

Rich

some days you post crazier than I do...

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Not to Support SBB in any way, but if I had a rifle that was under any sort of guarantee and I called the maker and said there was a poblem and he said...get it back to me and I'll sort it out- My answer would be to run his name into the ground for failure to uphold his deal. There is almost no way for me to legally return a firearm to Europe or the USA - and then get it back again once the repairs are done.

Amazing statement! You are entitled to your opinion however I don’t see how any manufacturer of any product could honor a warranty under these conditions. I understand the complications of obtaining gun permits in many African countries. However you guys seem to find a way around the process and obtain your rifles. My guess is that they are not always through the “Legal” process. Regardless, you do what you have to do. Could these “end a rounds” be part of the issue with obtaining export permits? In any event how is any manufacturer expected to solve these problems?

The issue with the Pollock’s rifle was clearly covered in another thread. He had admitted to causing the problems associated with the gun. He then decided to flame the maker on this forum and in person at the SCI show. Despite this, Butch has said he would fix the rifle. But the Pollock says that is not good enough because He can’t get an export permit. I think it’s pretty clear to most where the problem is here.

Graeme needs to put his blow up doll away and solve his own problems….it’s clear to me who he really is!

nice tattoos!
A navy buddy once told me: "if you can't get a woman, get a clean old man...". I really hoped he was kidding.

Rich

Roscoe...I was stiring, and not to Suport SBB-But several companies have 'PH' programmes to get their rifles into the hands of PH's etc - Heym and Krieghoff are two such companies. Krieghoff at lest has an appointed agent in Africa who can at least look at things...

In the example with the H&H (and it wasa bolt action not a double), At the price they charge...there are no problems,- and with returning the rifle... merely technical difficulties with the native authorities who their agent will get around.

Rich, I hear Pill achieved an event of historic proportions...he didn't buy the round, he got a scotsman with the deepest pockets and shortest arms in America to pay- a truely great achievement - worthy of a weaherby

technically true, but I felt he deserved the credit with the adroit manner in which he finagled it.

Rich

To be of Scottish descent AND be a good hunter is indeed a rarity. They are so tight, the squeaking noise they make when they walk can cause quite a racket.....

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
To be of Scottish descent AND be a good hunter is indeed a rarity. They are so tight, the squeaking noise they make when they walk can cause quite a racket.....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
There are gunwriters and then there are GUNWRITERS. Craig Boddington in Safari Rifles II writes:

"Butch Searcy . . . has made as many double rifles as anyone alive, from boxlocks to very nice sidelocks, and the price and availability of his rifles has had much to do with the double rifle's renaissance. I have never owned a Searcy rifle, but almost everyone who has them swears by them. The most common are very basic boxlocks, plain but hell for stout . . . In June 2007 I hunted in Botswana and Johan Calitz, a longtime buddy of Butch Searcy, . . . was carrying an extremely nice Searcy .470 sidelock."

Johan Calitz can carry any double he wants to, the fact that he uses a Searcy says alot.

Why does Boddington have anymore credibility than Weiland? It wasn't that long ago that he also was pimping California Rigbys as the best thing around from his shared office with Geoff Miller.

As for Kieth being dated, get real. He wasn't hunting with 'loaned' or 'gifted' rifles to pimp out or on 'donated' hunts from outfitters.

The only thing 'dated' is the prices.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:

In Brief, any rifle maker wwho issues guaranteees on his rifles and sells it to a PH in Africa had better have an African Gunsmith who he can get to check any problems, fix minor prblems, tell the owner to take a hike if it is caused by something the owner has done etc...

Graeme was given his rifle from a client.

But that's besides the point Butch sells rifles in USA, from the USA he has no control from where his customers reside. The above might be one of the silliest comments I've seen yet to date on AR.

The issue here is that there are very few items which can be warrantied from a foreign country when you live in a place such as Zimbabwe. Marxist dictatorships tend to be a bit rough of the flow of free commerce.

And please the next time you have a rifle that needs to go back to Great Britain for repair let the British government know that rifle has come from Zimbabwe. WHOOPS that pesky little total arms embargo between Great Britain and Zimbabwe might just be a small spot of bother.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
The hunter tested before but if you know anything about DR's then you would be aware - some hunters open the DR gently and dont all pop out the rounds, which is what our hunter was doing .

Don't typically respond to this type of thread, but this quote is off.

Open a rifle, or shotgun, with ejectors and, if the ejectors are timed properly, when the barrels open sufficiently to release the ejectors, which will be when there is sufficient room for the cases to clear the action, the ejector springs will ENSURE the shooter knows he has ejectors. The only way to keep the brass in the rifle is to block it as it is ejecting.

Unfired and still loaded rounds do not eject, they merely extract! Only empty brass from fired rounds ejects!

So three choices, the shooter was an idiot, the shooter never tried the rifle and the PH didn't require him to verify that its sights were on, or the ejectors were VERY, VERY out of time.

JPK

Is that multiple choice or check all boxes that fit?

Rich

GRAEME, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SELL ME THAT CLUNKER???

I am trying to help you out, and you are dissing me bigtime!

Rich

NEWS OF SORTS!!
I think.


First, I must apologize for missing SBB's counter-offer earlier.

For some reason Graeme is the only person on the AR forum who is unable to send me a PM. Whatever.

Said broken (while in Graeme's possession) Searcy .500 NE that has been taking up space in his gunsafe and is the source of all this discord has been metamorphosized into a rather valuable hunting rifle.
According to a PM from SBB forwarded by Mike Brooks the rifle is now worth ten thousand US dollars! As it stands in his safe. Plus the hassles and expense of getting it back inside the US, and whatever Butch might charge for putting it right.

Quite a deal for someone, especially posted by that same someone who said it cost $6500 US and has an attached "game debt" of $4000. Graeme posted that it is time for me to "shit or get off the pot...", or words indicating a similar suggestion.

As much as I hate to let this incredible bargain get away from me Graeme, I do believe I will have to get off the pot. I suggest you get off the crack, since that is the only thing that comes to mind RE your offer. I expect that it will languish for a few more decades at that price.

I believe Graeme might honor this offer, for a brief period only, to another AR member.

regards,

Rich

Rich, You misunderstood my PM. Look for a fresh one. That statment by SBB is in this thread.