quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

Do you think there is a difference between the 50 and the 475?

Absolutely YES.... I have seen the difference over and over. I am not so impressed with .474 to be honest. I don't see any difference between hits of .458 and .474. Nothing wrong with either, I love .458 to pieces. But there is a marked difference in animal reactions from .458 to .500 caliber with all else being the same. I can't or never have seen any difference from .458 to .474.

Just as there is a very marked difference from .366/.375 to .416 caliber in animal reactions.....

Michael

Michael

I have no idea why--but I am starting to feel the need for a 50 B&M.

You are a BÀAAAAAAD influence.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

I have no idea why--but I am starting to feel the need for a 50 B&M.

You are a BÀAAAAAAD influence.

Yes, I am a very bad influence, as stated many of my friends wives say so! LOL......

Every home should have at least one sort of .500 caliber rifle or in many cases, more than one!

HEH.............

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

I have no idea why--but I am starting to feel the need for a 50 B&M.

You are a BÀAAAAAAD influence.

Yes, I am a very bad influence, as stated many of my friends wives say so! LOL......

Every home should have at least one sort of .500 caliber rifle or in many cases, more than one!

HEH.............

Michael

It is for the above stated reasons that I am afraid to come down again next weekend South Carolina is quickly becoming the most expensive state to visit. I swear this April trip is my last!!!

quote:

It is for the above stated reasons that I am afraid to come down again next weekend South Carolina is quickly becoming the most expensive state to visit. I swear this April trip is my last!!!

HEH..........

No man, I rather you guys come visit and have fun, I will try and be nice.....

A little progress report on the M71 50 B&M Alaskan.....


I put the first little Bushnell Red Dot on the lever gun and have been working with it for a few days now. So far the Bushnell is a champ, battery still good, continuous ON since Feb 14th, still going strong. Rifle is doing incredibly well, since it is a M71, and I believe a tad stronger action than the Marlin, I am pushing it to the limits and it is digesting all of it without a hitch. I have POI basically with three different bullets right now. First, a 335 BBW#13 HP at 2310 fps, 365 #13 HP at 2200 fps, and a 405 BBW#13 Solid at 2120 fps. I am loading now some of the 400 North Fork Premiums and they will run close to 2150 fps, if not a bit better. I believe this is going to work for Africa come July!!!!!

Some photos.....













That round off to the left I pulled, last one of the group... DAMN......




I got my mess together on this one however....... And they say Lever Guns won't shoot, I beg to differ!

Michael, like you, I am a lever gun guy and that is the best looking model 71 I have ever seen. Wow, it's just gorgeous! A number of years ago, I had a model 71 carbine. If I recall, it had a 20 inch barrel. At some point, I sold it. I wish I had it now. What a fantastic conversion. I am really anxious to see how your .500 B&M Alaskan does on your next trip.

Thanks Dave, yes, that particular rifle is pretty famous (LOL) Layne used it in his first article on the 50 B&M Alaskan......

Michael,
Your 71 is not only very good looking but a heavy thumper. One hell of a improvement over the 348.

It is just a little faster than the 50 B&M Super Short and we all saw what it did in Australia.

Michael:

I needed you this morning. Had at least 25 wild turkeys in my backyard and one was a great big tom all puffed out for the girls. You do own a shotgun right?

quote:

You do own a shotgun right?

A What?

Shotgun… Perhaps he has a 1887 Winchester smooth-bore lever action rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Shotgun… Perhaps he has a 1887 Winchester smooth-bore lever action rifle.

You reminded me Jim, I have one of those old Winchester Pump shotgun things.... I forget what that model was, you know, used it in WW1 I believe.... Had a 10 ga double barrel Shotgun one time, short barrels of course, figured to shoot slugs... Hell could not keep two slugs in the bottom of a foot tub at 10 yds, so a fellow wanted the thing, and I had no use for it if it would not shoot slugs, so he traded me the old WIn Pump. Still have it, never have shot the thing, can't figure much of a use for a shotgun. I went dove hunting once with a shotgun. Couldn't hit nothing... So I learned quick if I was going to eat that night, and stop wasting shotgun bullets, I would wait until they landed in a tree next to me! I had plenty for dinner that night! Not sure, but I reckon some folks would not call that sporting.... but it was really more about eating that had me concerned.... and it worked.

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:
Michael,
Your 71 is not only very good looking but a heavy thumper. One hell of a improvement over the 348.

It is just a little faster than the 50 B&M Super Short and we all saw what it did in Australia.

Coyote....

Yes, I think so as well. And again, correct, the Super Short hammered buffalo in Australia, and I expect the M71 will do a pretty fair job..... I think I might be in a race with Org on this..... HEH... YOu see, I told him NOT to shoot buffalo with his! At least, not until I see if its going to be effective... Or maybe I just wanted to be the first, not sure which now.... LOL........

It sure is a handy thing I can tell you that.... Fast too....

Winchester has a new M71 out... I want to get one of those converted this year too....

Michael

quote:

You reminded me Jim, I have one of those old Winchester Pump shotgun things.... I forget what that model was, you know, used it in WW1 I believe....

Ah yes…good old Model 97 Winchester 12 gauge shotgun… We used those at the academy back in 1970, 28” barrel I believe with the magazine extended just short of full barrel length and modern day extra-full choke. Double 00 buck would just blow chunks out of the center of a body silhouette painted on ¼” plywood at 50yds, a wider spread at 75yds but still a dead silhouette. Was very interesting watching the plywood being blown to pieces with a full magazine run.

I don't have much use for a shotgun........

quote:

Winchester has a new M71 out... I want to get one of those converted this year too....

Michael

I saw that Winchester is coming out with the 71 again.

Unless they say Winchester New Haven I like them....LOL

The new ones may be made of better steels and made on CNC's to closer tolerances. But that tang safety I just don't understand.

A question.... I'am would like to start cutting and sizing brass for the 9.3 B&M. I remember reading that you size new brass so there is a little resistance when closing the bolt. I was thinking to back the sizer die out about 1/2 turn. Then when I get my gun I can re-size the brass to fit.

yeah ,Michael,I wish I know about the 50B&M sooner I have a 50 Alaskan, and I would have get thr barrel for the rifle for the .500 instead ofthe .510, as there are more of aselection with the .500,thank gos swifty has come out with a 450 grain bullet in a .510,I knowthey are good have been using alaska bullet works but not sure how goodthey are I hear good things and some bad?I can tell everyone one thing is that my 375B&M is fantastic,love it the action is insanely smooth, just so nice,Kev

Kevin,

CEB does make the 350gr .510 BBW#13 HP NonCon for the 50 Alaskan. It ought to be a hammer on bear and other critters...

Yeah 350 is a little light,I wish they were 450,I like big stuff,by the way have you talk tothem about the 230 raptor,and the problem you were having with them I hope they can get one I can use,kev

Kev,

I don't own .375 or .510 caliber rifles, my .423 and .500 caliber rifles are still under construction, so I'll have to leave it to Michael to explain why the .350gr HP NonCon for the .510 lever action. Perhaps he'll also be able to explain why the 210gr .366 Raptor and 230 gr .375 Rapter as they should have been 200gr and 210 gr respectively to maintain the .200 SD to .210 SD based on earlier testing...

quote:

Ah yes…good old Model 97 Winchester 12 gauge shotgun…

If it was good enough for the Gorch brothers in The Wild Bunch, then it's good enough for me!

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
Yeah 350 is a little light,I wish they were 450,I like big stuff,by the way have you talk tothem about the 230 raptor,and the problem you were having with them I hope they can get one I can use,kev

Kev, you are wrong buddy on that 350 #13 we worked up for the .510s..... That thing will turn the biggest brown bear that ever lived totally inside out and then some! I bet you this, shoot a big bear broadside, and I don't believe you will recover the bullet, blades yes, but that bullet is going out the other side after it turns everything into jelly inside....... You need to look at that bullet very seriously....

Remember, they are NonConventional and don't follow conventional rules such as SD..... These will out perform and out penetrate any Conventional in the same category.

Michael

We had Brent and Paul here for the weekend, and we literally had a blast! The boys pitched up Friday Afternoon, I had a little mission I had to accomplish for another friend, but we managed to get through the evening after that.

Brent brought many goodies, not the least of which is the new camo stocks we have been after, along with some various pies..... I Had Brents rifle, and Pauls, Saturday we were busy for the day getting those set up and running. Paul has that 458 B&M two tone, and Accurate Innovations Pepper Laminated stock. It shot great, we got it up and running, and with a little shooting, Paul is going to be ready for his first ever African hunt, and First Buffalo, come August.

Brent and I were trying a little experiment, 458 Super Short on a WSM action, instead of the traditional WSSM. Our thinking in the beginning was to be able to seat out further, use standard SS bullets, long nose profile, add tips and get some extra velocity. All good in theory, but the Super Short does not agree. There was little gained, other than being able to use the long nose with the tip in the magazine. A bit disappointing, but without doing such things, you never know for sure.

Now, I don't know why in the world I did not think of this when we started this little project, but we should have looked at the 458 B&M SA for this project, not the super short. But, maybe I had too much pie going on last time, I just did not think of it. This week I am loading up some dummies, and we are going to look at the SA in this action.... If that looks good, and it should, then I think we might send it up to have a barrel changed out to the SA cartridge. I can use the SS barrel, build a new 458 SS on another rifle. So nothing really lost at all.

Speaking of Stocks..... This is my New SNOW CAMO, For Alaska.... 458 B&M...................

Tell me, What is not to like about this.............

That stock looks Super Sweet!
Best looking one.

Michael,
The last time you talked about a SNOW CAMO stock, it snowed in South Carolina.

I really like the look of the SNOW CAMO and stainless steel.

How do you think it will hold up on the rubber grip part of the stock ?

Would you run the pressure higher in a 458 B&M SA bolt gun than a AR ?

What barrel length are you going with on the 458 B&M SA bolt gun ?

Coyote

I don't know how the camo will hold up, looks good, feels good... I suppose we will see.

Yes, I will run higher pressures in the bolt vs semi in 458 B&M SA.... 16.25 inches....

I was going to make up some dummies to play with, never got a chance to do so.

I sent 17 stocks back with Brent, half Snow the other half brown...... Very nice stuff....
Oh and I sent the Nikon scope that was on the 458 B&M Snow gun, also to be done in Snow Camo....

Michael

Well, back from the "lab" this past weekend, shooting with Michael is always a joy. I believe a qt of apple pie disappeared between fri eve and sat afternoon. Must have been evaporation Thank you Michael, always a pleasure to hang with you and the girls.

Yes the project rifle was a disappointment in it did not expand the super short limits as we had hoped, but the rifle itself was by no means a disappointment, and we gained the ability to use the tips in the mag with 295 gr, so down range speed will be improved, and we increased the 250 by 75 fps give or take. So it was not bad, just we had hoped for more. The B&M SA at 2.00" case length may be the ticket. Shoot, just another experiment to prove it one way or the other.

The camo is very durable. I is a film that the stock is dipped into. The fellow does bug shields, fender flares, and even motorcycle helmets. It has always stood up. Basically you pick what color you want and he powder coats the stocks, then the film, which is for the most part transparent if dipped into place and your base color bleeds thru. Stock is no more or less slippery. If interested in anything let me know and I will give you Dustins's info. I am not partner or employee!!!

Again Michael, thanks for your hospitality and effort in making all of this work. Paul wore me down with questions again during the entire 8 hour drive home! He is asking more and deeper questions though. So i think he is catching on.

Brent

I noticed around 10-11 am Saturday morning that Qt started leaking! As the day went forward the the amount in the qt was less and less?? I did take great notice my shooting was improving drastically however as the day progressed!



Both you and Paul are such a pleasure to have around, please don't be too long before making a plan for the next visit......

As for the 458SS in the WSM action.... Well, we can make a change, I still have not done a dummy up but will get it soon, and get it out for a change to 458BMSA.... I have about 99% confidence that is going to do what we want. I think get a 150 on the front end, and with the tip a 125-150 on the back side, that will be the improvement I am looking for.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Paul will be ready for his first buffalo come August...... He is doing great.....

I put the brown camo on one of the 475s, looks pretty good, like Brent, I don't care much for the color of the insets, but not bad either. On all the stocks I sent with Brent we will have the brown camo all the way, no inset color change....... I really like this camo, better than the standard green camo from Winchester.

Mike,
that's a slick looking weapon.

Don't put it on the ground too long, you won't find it again !

Can you give us some details on that neat looking sight on the top ?

Cheers,

Paul.

Hi Paul...

That is yet another Red Dot I am playing with, looking at and testing....

UltraDot 6. It has a Circle Dot, several sizes of standard dots, and I think a Cross Hair
with small circle dot to choose from. Of all, I like the CircleDot reticle best.

Its bigger than many smaller dot things, but smaller than a small scope, having dual rings
makes it strong for recoil, and its very light, half that of a small scope.

I maybe have 30 rounds or so with it right now, so its way too early to tell how its going to do.
So far it does very well, time will tell.

Originally, just a few weeks ago, I thought I might put it on the forward mount of my lever gun, but it just looked so big, and a bit out of place on the lever gun....... ?????




Michael

Mike,
is Ultra Dot the brand/makers name ?

I'd like to look at their web site for more info.

Do you know how much it weighs ?

Thanks,

Paul.

Paul

Yes, UltraDot

http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_009.htm

5.3 Oz.....

The rifle set up with the UltraDot weighs 7.25 lbs.......

Nice Package...
Michael

Thanks for the link Mike.

Interesting sight, and nice and light-weight too !

Just not sure how I'd go getting it mounted to span the long action on my Lott ?

Would sure be a help on some late season, open country shots.

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul,

You could use an offset base or a one piece base to fit that scope to a long action.

Sam

The brown in sets on green camo is not a easy to do with the dipping process. I have never seen it done before.
Did they remove the panels to do it ?

Michael,
If you change Cross Hairs dots does it change point of impact.

I had a Sight Mark brand multi Cross Hairs red dot sight given to me to try out, what a POS. If it was sighted in with one cross hair and you changed it to a different one. It would move up to 8" at 50 yards. There was not a good positive lock when changing cross hairs.

I'am giving a Bushnell Trophy 1x 28mm Multi-Reticle model #730135 a work out on my Benelli M-4 with slugs and buckshot, shooting tactical 3 gun competition. With 500 + rounds in a 7.5 lb. 12 ga. I will see if can make 1000 rounds.

Coyote

There are no panels to remove, so they are just done somehow in a different color, I suppose taped off......

So far, no, changing crosshairs does not change POI on the UltraDot, but really I have only went around once with it, and have not shot it enough to know 100% for sure.

I have never even tried with my bushnell on 50BMAK......... I did one that belongs to another fellow last week or so, on a 223, and it did not change POI. But the lock in did not seem as positive as I would have liked either????/


I wanted to see what the Snow Camo looked like on the 475 B&M GunKote finish... I like it even better than stainless............

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Paul,

You could use an offset base or a one piece base to fit that scope to a long action.

Sam

Sam, I wasn't too keen on having a one piece base spanning across the top of the loading port.

I havn't tried it yet but was thinking it may hamper access to the top of the mag when in a "hurry" !

I might try it though, before discounting it altogether.

Paul,

Just use the offset bases and then your loading port is more open.

Sam

coyote wacker-

I've just mounted the same Bushnell in QRWs on my .458B&M in prep for my upcoming Ele hunt in June. Primary rifle will be a DR in 500NE with a Burris FastFireIII red dot. The 458B&M with the Bushnell red-dot will serve as backup for Ele, shooting BBW#13 450gr solids should one of our DRs go down, and will be the primary PG rifle with a Leupold 1.5-5x shooting 250gr tipped NonCons.

I plan to zero the Bushnell beginning next week, so am interested in your experience under recoil.

BTW, Michael had one of these Bushnell Trophy multi-reticle re-dots on a lever gun, but I'm not sure if he ever really wrung it out on a large bore.