quote:

Originally posted by Head Trauma:
Michael, what is the story on the sight base mounted to the front ring on Mercedes' rifle?

That is exactly what I have been looking for to mount a Trijicon RDS on my 500 B&M.

Head Trauma

That forward mount base is the SSK "T'SOB". On all of the early B&Ms done from 2005-2007 I had this base installed, to mount various sights on. I kinda got away from it in 2007 forward, with some exceptions. Recently I had one installed on a 19 inch 500 MDM to hold a Trijicon.

I gave each of my kids Gun #1 of some of the rifles built. I gave Mercedes Gun #1 50 B&M Super Short, and when we hooked up with Virginia Hydro, she chose to have her stock done in Pink Camo.... LOL... She is not quite ready to handle the 50 SS yet, but in a couple of years I figure I can load some light 300s down to 800-1000 fps and let her give it a go. I can tell you this, she is VERY PROUD of it, and shows it to everyone who comes by to visit! Just yesterday she was talking about the cartridge it fires, and I showed her the 50 B&M SS that fits her rifle. To which her reply was this "It's not big enough"




She is also asking when it is going to be her turn to shoot BUFFALO..................


Here are some photos of some of the early guns with the T'SOB installed......

Was all over the county today checking on a bunch of current jobs, got back to office late this afternoon and what a wonderful surprise. There was a long brown box from s
south carolina Of course I bypassed my desk full of messages and notes and immediately ripped it open to find my brsnd new 458 B&M SA. It is the semi auto load developed into a bolt. Gave us the ability to add a tip to some bullets due to longer mag box, but still basically a super short frame and feel. Still wringing it out, but Michael has it pushing a 295 tipped non con at a little better than 2500. I guess you guys can figure out what my weekend will be filled with

458 B&M SA is an interesting little 458 cartridge. Not designed specifically for a bolt gun, there are now two bolt guns in 458 B&M SA.... This one Brent has, and Daryl in Australia built one. Daryl's rifle is built on the shorter Remington action, Brents on the WSM Winchester action. In the WSM action, it allows most any of the longer nose profile #13s, designed for the Super Shorts to feed and fit the magazine, with Talon Tip installed.

The cartridge is basically a 2 inch RUM case. Dead in between 458 B&M Super Short, and 458 B&M.



Over a couple of days I quickly did enough load data that Brent could use the rifle on his upcoming trip for some plains game. I am very sure I have not reached full potential of the cartridge yet. One thing I found, is that powders good for the Super Short, are too fast for the 458 SA.... Powders for the bigger B&M, are too slow for the SA to reach full potential, and I think Brent and I will give this much more study later this fall, and winter, after our hunting is finished, neither of us have time to devote until probably October or later......

Between now and then, I need to get some powder in here that I think will get the cartridge to its full potential... Right now we are basically at or very slightly ahead of the Super Short, we should be able to exceed that a bit more.....

Michael

Up here in the north country finely getting finished with all the fixing and repairs from winter.

The 9.3 B&M has been sitting on the bench for over two weeks, I finely mounted a Trijicon 3x9 with plex and green dot.

It ended up a little heaver than I expected, 7lbs.-10oz. with bases, 8lbs.-13ozs. with scope and rings. If I were to have the gun built again I would have the muzzle around .60" instead of .76". It might drop the weight 6 oz.

When brought to the shoulder the iron sights are right on. I really like the orange fiber optic front sight for use in the black timber or swamp. Once sighted in they may never get used but are there just in case.

Coyote

The 9.3 B&M looks pretty spiffy...... I agree, it sounds a little heavy? When I had the Ultimate stock
on mine, and only bases, I am sure it was under 7 lbs? Will check my muzzle, but 9.3 and 375 are both smaller than 416-50... 20 Inches? I too like the red fiber sight.. I am going have to try one of those.
One thing, sight blades are simple to change and there are some good choices from NECG.....

Michael

I just put back together the first 500 MDM built. This rifle was built late 2008 I think, originally a 21 inch barrel, and bright SSK blue. Learning process after busting two common stocks, had Accurate Innovations when they were still owned in South Dakota, build a Myrtle stock for it. Started out gorgeous, but in only a couple of months started turning an ugly brownish orange. I had it in Australia in 2009 where I shot 13 buffalo with it. It had been put away pretty much since then, the stock was terrible looking, dirty orange brown color.

A few months ago Wes from Accurate Innovations was here, current Owner of Accurate Innovations in Andrews NC. They Bought AI sometime in 2010 I believe, and have done incredible things with AI now. Wes felt like the finish had not been done correctly in South Dakota, so took it with him to refinish. I asked him to shorten the overall length, and the rosewood tips. (Standard B&M has Short tips these days) In the meantime I sent the rifle back to Brian at SSK and had the barrel shortened to 19 inches, and had the rifle Gunkoted at the same time.

Wes finished the stock and received it Friday, and I am a HAPPY chap. I had planned to get some shooting in, but time has not allowed for that... YET......

THIS IS BEFORE...................... And new, stock had not turned color yet......





NEW AGAIN.........







Michael

The refinished stock looks great! The grain shows much better. I also prefer the handout checkering vs the original laser cut pattern.

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:

... When brought to the shoulder the iron sights are right on. I really like the orange fiber optic front sight for use in the black timber or swamp. Once sighted in they may never get used but are there just in case.

Excellent.
The camo stock almost disappears into the background.
That red fiberoptic front sight will help you find your rifle if you ever set it down in the timber.

Okay I have the new raptors in my hand, they look great only one thing is the BC is lower than first thought, the BC of the ER Raptor is 337,not 49 so all the CEB are going to have a lower BC by a lot,Kev

Ive just ordered a B&M rifles 50B&M so just just joined up to read up on the loads etc. Cheers from Australia

quote:

Originally posted by shauno50:
Ive just ordered a B&M rifles 50B&M so just just joined up to read up on the loads etc. Cheers from Australia

You will not be disappointed when you get your 50 B&M. SSK Ind. does a great job on quality and outstanding workmanship.

About how long will it take to get to you in Australia ?

Not sure I already have the Turkish stock in Australia just waiting for the stainless barrelled action to be done by SSK then sent over.
Plan on using it in Africa and maybe Alaska but I already have a Sako 375 Kodiak which will be great in Alaska and Mod 70 338 but im sure the 50B&M should be good for a bear lol.

quote:

Originally posted by shauno50:
Not sure I already have the Turkish stock in Australia just waiting for the stainless barrelled action to be done by SSK then sent over.
Plan on using it in Africa and maybe Alaska but I already have a Sako 375 Kodiak which will be great in Alaska and Mod 70 338 but im sure the 50B&M should be good for a bear lol.

You will be very happy with your selection of the 50 B&M.
Short and compact with plenty of grunt for anything. I have witnessed buffalo being hosed down with this cartridge like it was no-one's business.
Although it gives a little ground to it's bigger brother, the .500MDM, the "little" .50 B&M is a much more practical choice.

Congrats and welcome to the B&M family.

Welcome Shauno50, both to AR and to the B&M family........

Yes, I was in contact with Daryl just before leaving last week and I am sure it was
your rifle I sent to SSK to get started on. I have sent 2-3 to SSK the last couple of weeks
and while I can't recall now what was what, I know one was a 50 B&M, and sure must have
been yours.......

With all the bullets available, and loads I have worked on for all the B&Ms, they are extremely
versatile.... You won't have any issues at all hunting anything you want, anywhere you want
with your rifle. You can take those rat guns, 375 and 338 and get rid of them, once you get the
50 in your hands, you won't want to carry those any longer..... HEH HEH......

Well guys, we are here in Pretoria now, all is going great. Zero issues on the flight over, and
zero issues with the rifles and ammo. 2 minutes checking serial numbers of the rifles, and I was
out of SAPS in a snap, and the guy telling me to have a great hunting trip... A far cry from some few
years ago. No ammo checks, no nothing.... Check serials, and out in just minutes.........

A week out from shooting yet, and looking forward to getting started................

Michael

Michael

Yep thats me I got the Turkish stock Daryl had as well and have only seen pictures of it but it looks great. And he'll get me bunch of 500 solid and 450 hollows and some lighter ones in the 335 grain range. Look forward to using it in Africa as well.

quote:

Originally posted by shauno50:
Michael

Yep thats me I got the Turkish stock Daryl had as well and have only seen pictures of it but it looks great. And he'll get me bunch of 500 solid and 450 hollows and some lighter ones in the 335 grain range. Look forward to using it in Africa as well.

Shauno50

Tell Daryl to look into getting you the 450 Solids and the matching 410 Raptors.... These are some I had done last year, and pretty much for the 50 B&M. Running the 450 Solid at 2230 fps and the 410 HP at 2350+..... Excellent on anything that walks, and I think the 410 just might be excellent on buffalo, although I have not used it yet in that capacity.....

The 335 two versions.... Long Nose Projection, and Short nose projection (lever gun) I have been using the Lever bullet, seated deep, using Talon Tip and all fits the magazine, running 2450+ fps in my guns..... Excellent thin skinned game bullet......

The longer nose projection 335, without tip, runs 2580 fps but looses a lot of velocity at 50 yds, better to work with the lever bullet seated deep and using tip, come out better at 50 yds or so...

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by shauno50:
Michael

Yep thats me I got the Turkish stock Daryl had as well and have only seen pictures of it but it looks great. And he'll get me bunch of 500 solid and 450 hollows and some lighter ones in the 335 grain range. Look forward to using it in Africa as well.

Shauno50

Tell Daryl to look into getting you the 450 Solids and the matching 410 Raptors.... These are some I had done last year, and pretty much for the 50 B&M. Running the 450 Solid at 2230 fps and the 410 HP at 2350+..... Excellent on anything that walks, and I think the 410 just might be excellent on buffalo, although I have not used it yet in that capacity.....

The 335 two versions.... Long Nose Projection, and Short nose projection (lever gun) I have been using the Lever bullet, seated deep, using Talon Tip and all fits the magazine, running 2450+ fps in my guns..... Excellent thin skinned game bullet......

The longer nose projection 335, without tip, runs 2580 fps but looses a lot of velocity at 50 yds, better to work with the lever bullet seated deep and using tip, come out better at 50 yds or so...

Michael

Thanks Michael

What riffles are you using in Africa this time?

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
[


Today, this is what my rifle looks like with the Leupold Scout Scope on it...... This coming week I will remove it and start shooting the UltraDot and hopefully gain some confidence with it.



This is what I want and expect.............

Shauno50

Using this lever gun in 50 B&M Alaskan and backed up with a gorgeous bastogne stocked 18 inch 458 B&M bolt gun....

Having internet issues here so had to back up and copy this post.
Michael

I actually wanted the Bastogne stock for my 50B&M the same as that stock on your website but ended up going with the Turkish the Daryl had. May look at getting another one later but im tempted to go with one of the lever guns as well.

Shauno50

That stock on the "B&M Rifle"... 50 B&M... is one of a kind. The blank was hand picked by my buddy, then sent to Accurate Innovations to build on. It is an incredible stick of wood. I don't have any photos up of this particular
458 B&M, but it is a very nice stick, extreme checkering pattern, and just happens to be a light weight. This rifle without scope comes in at 7.25 lbs and handles like a dream. Rifle is gunkote matte black, and when it was new sported a nice English stock. I had this same rifle in Zimbabwe in 2011. Now it returns. This trip however it has
a mission and that is to see just how good this 250 gr #13 HP.... Or, Raptor I should say, is. If its as good as I
believe it is going to be, I will never need for another medium caliber rifle, or want one, and no reason to ever carry
one to the field, not for me anyway.

Our pal lionhunter already used this bullet in his 458 B&M and has a video of a zebra being taken with it. Zebra folds up on the spot, DRT, to never make another move, incredible footage, that soon as we can figure out will put on the B&M website. This zebra was as if struck by lightning. I hope to be seeing a lot more of that come next week.

As for the 50 B&M Alaskan, it is truly a fantastic lever gun. One must remember however the limitations of traditional type lever guns, and that big limitation is "Pressures".... No traditional lever can ever come close to the power levels that the bolt gun can produce, simply because of pressure. The Marlin actions can run about 45000 PSI, and I push the M71s a tiny bit more, running around 50000 PSI. By using "Caliber"... .500, we do in fact increase the effectiveness of the rifle/cartridge tremendously. But, careful design of bullets, we take yet another huge leap in effectiveness as well. Just how effective I intend to find out. And, one of the purposes of finally taking the 50 B&M AK to the field myself.

Always in years past I have never recommended that some of the B&Ms be stretched to buffalo. The Super Shorts primarily and the 50 B&M AK.... Last year in Australia we saw first hand how really effective the 50 B&M Super Short and the 475 B&M Super Short was on Aussie buffalo. With the bullets we have from both Cutting Edge, and NOrth Fork, it was decided by all that the Super Shorts are in fact proper buffalo medicine, and surpass many many cartridges that are considered serious buffalo medicine. All in attendance of these events last year will attest to how well the two Super Shorts did on buffalo, surpassing adequate by a long shot, well into serious buffalo medicine!

Now, I must see for myself if caliber and proper bullet design will do the same for the Lever Gun, 50 B&M AK... I know it is adequate for the task with the bullets I have chosen, but will it surpass adequate? I don't know? And one of the reasons I am here with it now. I have neglected for many years to take the lever guns to the field myself, I have been so busy with the bolt guns, it took a back burner. My backup bullet, the 405 #13 Solid at 2120 will be serious medicine, and give serious penetration if required, that I have zero doubt. My opinion currently is that the 50 B&M AK is adequate for buffalo, client/hunter situation.

Another limitation on the M71 is sight systems. Because it is top eject, scope mounting is a bit of an issue, and must be forward mount as shown above, or forward mount Red Dot type. Now, forward mount Leupold Scout scopes are very good, and very precise. However, any forward mount scope has a horrible small field of view. At 25 yds all is fine, however on DG should that distance close to 10-15 yds, field of view is terrible. Red Dot style sights take care of very close range stuff, but for my eyes a bit of a problem going past 50 yds or so. And in brush I have some concerns as well.

Currently the lever is set up with an UltraDot system, shown below. It has several settings, appears to stay the course between switching from one dot system to the next. I have it set on a Circle/Dot, which I seem to be able to see best. Next week will put it to the test on some plains game before taking it on buffalo/hippo......



Michael

That Ultradot 6 is interesting will be good to hear how it goes on the hunt. For my 50 B&M I'll be putting a S&B Zenith 1.1-4x24 on it as I really like my S&B's even though there not the cheapest things around but bloody awesome optics. But im open to other ideas like that Ultradot for close in stuff seems pretty good and suited for both eyes open.

I am not completely sold on the dots, from close and fast, absolutely, general purpose, not so sure yet. It's simply an individual issue with ones eye sight. On the smaller dots, 4 moa or less, then after about 1 second the
dot turns into a line for me. At 50 yds, really not a big deal, but I can't discern 1 inch left, 1 inch right at any given time. Its called astigmatism. The circle dot I am using, the center dot is 8 MOA... large, it does not
turn into a line for me. However, I am afraid that in brush and other obstructions I will not be able to see as well as I like to. We will see this coming week how we do. I intend to keep things close as possible, and use this on larger critters on this plains game shoot, such as wildebeast/zebra. Obviously at 50 yds I am covering a full 4 inches, a lot of area on an impala........ Buffalo... No problem......

S&B.. 30mm tube. Very large on a B&M rifle. I assume this is 30mm, don't know for sure. 50 B&M is a scope busting bitch that nothing can match. 30mm tubes are heavier constructed, and probably be dandy, but large and heavy as well.

Currently I am running the Nikons on all B&Ms and have yet to have an issue with them going on about 2 yrs now with some of them. Leupold would not hold up, especially on any of the 50s, even the Super Shorts. Nikons are very reasonable in price, glass is as good or better to me than Leupold, mechanics are good, and more important, I just can't bust one. They certainly seem to be quite a bargain for what one receives. Unlike many so called
"Bargains"........

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I am not completely sold on the dots, from close and fast, absolutely, general purpose, not so sure yet. It's simply an individual issue with ones eye sight. On the smaller dots, 4 moa or less, then after about 1 second the
dot turns into a line for me. At 50 yds, really not a big deal, but I can't discern 1 inch left, 1 inch right at any given time. Its called astigmatism. The circle dot I am using, the center dot is 8 MOA... large, it does not
turn into a line for me. However, I am afraid that in brush and other obstructions I will not be able to see as well as I like to. We will see this coming week how we do. I intend to keep things close as possible, and use this on larger critters on this plains game shoot, such as wildebeast/zebra. Obviously at 50 yds I am covering a full 4 inches, a lot of area on an impala........ Buffalo... No problem......

S&B.. 30mm tube. Very large on a B&M rifle. I assume this is 30mm, don't know for sure. 50 B&M is a scope busting bitch that nothing can match. 30mm tubes are heavier constructed, and probably be dandy, but large and heavy as well.

Currently I am running the Nikons on all B&Ms and have yet to have an issue with them going on about 2 yrs now with some of them. Leupold would not hold up, especially on any of the 50s, even the Super Shorts. Nikons are very reasonable in price, glass is as good or better to me than Leupold, mechanics are good, and more important, I just can't bust one. They certainly seem to be quite a bargain for what one receives. Unlike many so called
"Bargains"........


Michael

Yea ok I see what your up against now with the astigmatism. The S&B is 30mm and weighs about 490gm with the illumination. Heavy for the small rifle size of the B&M I guess. But the optics on these things are so good just crystal clear thats why I have some some my other rifles. Anyway ill see what happens after I get it.

Im thinking of maybe doing something with the 9.3mm B&M to!!

Shauno

No man, optics is clearly and undeniably an individual preference, and really no right or wrong to it. What works best for you is very clearly the best there is, as long as its reliable. If your S&B works for you, then
it is the right thing.

I would forget the 9.3 and get a 416, I think way more versatile... and especially with this new bullet I have been working with, the 225 Raptor...... Will do everything the 9.3 will do, and then way more.

I had the 9.3 B&M in Australia last year. The 9.3 was a superb plains game rifle and cartridge, using the 210 ESP Raptor at 2900+.... But even on cow buffalo it was just not very impressive to me at all. In September I am taking my 416 B&M 18 inch gun, 225 Raptor at 2900 and I am betting that the buffalo are going to be way more impressed with it than they were with the 9.3.......

Michael

Yesterday finely some trigger time on the new 9.3 B&M, it was a great day to shoot low 70's dead calm wind.

I have several boxes of Norma 9.3mm 289 gr.RN in red boxes bought at a garage sale 10 years ago for $5 a 100pcs. I figured they would be good to fire form my brass, get the iron sights and scope on paper and just give it a work out.

With 65 gr. of Reloader 15 they clocked 2389 to 2408 fps, I expected a little faster. But for punching paper and busting rocks in the sand pit. They will get the brass ready for some 210gr. Raptors.

The magazine spring shifted on the follower the first magazine full jamming the gun on the last round. I when and bent it a little to tighten it, but it was not the quick fix, still shifted out. Today I'am going to JB Weld it like I did to my 50 B&M SS.

Michael,
Your right index finger by now must have a pretty bad twitch in it after been in Pretoria, South Africa for several days.

May you and your family have a safe and successful trip.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Shauno

No man, optics is clearly and undeniably an individual preference, and really no right or wrong to it. What works best for you is very clearly the best there is, as long as its reliable. If your S&B works for you, then
it is the right thing.

I would forget the 9.3 and get a 416, I think way more versatile... and especially with this new bullet I have been working with, the 225 Raptor...... Will do everything the 9.3 will do, and then way more.

I had the 9.3 B&M in Australia last year. The 9.3 was a superb plains game rifle and cartridge, using the 210 ESP Raptor at 2900+.... But even on cow buffalo it was just not very impressive to me at all. In September I am taking my 416 B&M 18 inch gun, 225 Raptor at 2900 and I am betting that the buffalo are going to be way more impressed with it than they were with the 9.3.......


Michael

416 sounds great.


My first two big hunts are going to be Interior Grizzly or Coastal Brown Bear and in Africa Cape Buffalo and some other plains game.

Damn Coyote... I never heard of the mag spring jumping on a 9.3..... New one. I had a hell of a time with this 458 B&M I have with me doing the same thing. I took a damned punch and nearly beat it to pieces to keep it tight. I hope I never have to change it, I would have to get new bottom metal... LOL.... Yes, JB Weld Might be the best answer for that. While that is a bit aggravating, at least we know exactly what it is, and how to fix it. This is just one of those little bugs to sort, and to be expected I suppose, all those rifles are made to shoot rat bullets, not real bullets, so when we start shooting real
things down the bore, then adjustments have to be made...... Sorry however....

I have been getting 2500+ with the 280 #13 Solids (Safari Solids)... And I think with the North Forks as well....

Yes, I am tired of being here in Pretoria, getting itchy... But also good visits with some of our folks here too, Jaun is also sorting out one of her houses and trying to get ready to do a remodel.. This is not so much fun, lots like work.... Headed to J'burg tomorrow, she is visiting with some friends and such... Then we are off on Sunday to head for the bush, be shooting first thing Monday morning.

Thanks.....

Shauno.... Bear and buffalo.. Don't get any better than that....

Bear lots of good choices in bullets... From our 400 NOrth FOrks for more conventional... And several choices of the Raptors.. That 335 might look great for bears, with tip added.... I think look at the 450/410 for buffalo... Of course that 410 would do on bear very well too.... We have now so many great choices in .500 from 300 to 550 and lots in between.....

I have shot both these with 50 B&M and I can assure you that it is a good choice...

Michael

Well I have a new B&M toy here and been playing around with it. We built up a 458 on a WSM action rather than the WSSM used in the super short. The barrel is still the 161/2". We were hoping to get more out of it, thus far it is an improvement over the 458 super short, but not significant. Due to the longer mag box we can however run the tips in the CEB nom cons. So we are carrying a bit more speed down range.
Regardless of all of that, this is a fun rifle to shoot. Feels as if you are carrying nothing, comes up in an instant. Certainly a whole lot less recoil than my 500MDM!! With the 250 and 295 gr bullets I can crank out 4 rounds and be on target pretty darn fast.. Going for tuskless and buff i early sept. Taking both the 500 and the new little guy. My PH says we will be able to get in some hyena for sure, about 150 yd shot. Should be just fine with those little 250 gr thumpers.

Well I would be one of the newer B&M converts. My first big bore (or heavy medium or trophy rodent killer) was a .375H&H in one of the new Carolina M70's. Love that gun and will keep it. The only thing better than one DG rifle however is a second.

About a year and half ago I caught a nice deal on a CZ550 in .416 Rigby here on AR. I liked that rifle well enough. Thanks to all the info here on AR, load development was a piece of cake. But in time I really came to not care much for the recoil of the Rigby. Perhaps it was stock fit? I don't know, I just got to where I did not care to shoot it more than 6-10 rounds in a session of shooting.

So I started giving thought to other options. Having met Michael in Dallas this past year and with him having a used .458B&M to sell, well that's the route I chose.

So here are some pictures. I've worked up loads straight from the B&M website in the 420gr CEB Raptors using AA2520. Why that powder? Because that was the first one I could get from the list of powders for this bullet on Michael's website. It's a ball powder and a bit of a pain to work with, but it certainly gives accurate loads.

In my 18" barrel, I chrono'd them right at 2300fps. Slightly more than what Michael shows but I'm sure that's within the error range of the two different instruments.

One of the pics is 4 shots at 50 yards and the other is at 100 yards. These were shot on a rather warm morning here in the Phoenix area. The 100 yard group was shooting as rapidly as I could with no cooling time on the barrel.

The stock is another one of Accurate Innovation's offerings. I chose myrtle. The blank showed some figuring to be certain, but nothing like it showed. It may not everyone's cup of tea, but I love the way it turned out.

Recoil in spite of being much lighter than the CZ is quite manageable. All in all I'm quite pleased.

This past weekend I ran a whole bunch of the new 260gr SOCOMs from CEB. I topped out at 77gr of H4198. Those loads were clicking along averaging 2890fps. I didn't get any pics as I had a lot of shooting to get done in a fairly shot period of time, but accuracy appears to be very good. The very interesting thing was over a wide range of powder weight the accuracy was virtually the same with the point of impact barely moving. More to follow on these.

My thanks to Michael and Paul Truccolo for all the advice and help with this new rifle!

Phil, that is one smoking hot rifle stock !

Added to that it shoots real nice too.

Welcome to the B&M family.

cheers,


Paul.

Phil

Incredible rifle, incredible shooting as well....... But exactly what I would expect too! That AI stock is kicking it buddy........ What a stick of wood.....

How about a B&M report? I posted a hunting report upstairs, have never done that, but figured it would be good to do, but here and on terminals I want to go a step further and talk about some other things related to both threads, that I did not go into upstairs on the hunting report.

First, the M71 50 B&M Alaskan. For my part, the lever guns have taken a back seat over the last few years and most of my attention was devoted to the bolt guns in B&M cartridges. But this year it was the big lever guns time to put up or shut up!

My goal for the lever gun was buffalo. Being a M71 and top eject I could not put the traditional scope on the rifle, so this left me with two options, forward mount scout scope or a Red Dot system of sorts. We have talked about that above several times. The Scout Scope option is for me the most accurate, however one major flaw with all ER or forward mount scopes is "Field Of View".... Very poor at close ranges, 15 yds and closer.
Red Dots, no worries about field of view at close range. I had lots of issues with smaller MOA dots, 4 MOA or less would turn into a straight line for me after a second or two, while really not a big issue, I just could not get my POI settled enough at 50 yards to be very satisfied. One session, 1 inch right, next session 1 inch left, and that drives me nuts. So I had this UltraDot, with several different settings, and really liked the circle/dot option, it stayed a dot for me, although a large one. It held POI perfectly and I had zero issues with it. The trip over and first day out, perfect at the range before hunting. First day in Zimbabwe, perfect dead on the money. But I discovered unfortunately on the first part of the hunt for plains game, if I were in brush, it was totally USELESS. I could not see sticks, and other obstacles, and if the brush was thick I could sometimes not even make out the animal. So I was just not able to use the rifle to any effect at all on the first part of the hunt. Several times, I thought to change to the Scout Scope, but I had this rifle set up to hunt buffalo, so I held on, and used the 458 B&M for almost all the plains game, and put away the 50 B&M AK.

When we arrived in Gache Gache I started out with the 50 B&M AK, and the first day we found a pod of hippos out of the water just on the edge taking a serious nap! One bull in the bunch had a huge body, but could not really see about the teeth and such, and he was head down facing the water, only a few feet from the edge. Andrew and I decided to sneak in closer, we had some brush cover which helped. We ended up only 15 yards, maybe even a little closer from the sleeping hippo. I had the 50 B&M AK loaded with 5 rounds of 405 #13 Solids at 2120 fps.

One of the other hippos busted us and all hell broke loose then........ I decided to hit the big hippo soon as he stood up and hammered him threw the right front shoulder, and then proceeded to pour it to him. He of course had a head of steam up headed to the water. I think my second shot hit mid section, third angled to the front from top of the back, along with a 4th in the same area. He made it to the water, but only 15 yds from the edge before going down. In an hour he popped up, right where he went down, and we recovered without issue.











I found on open ground, no brush, the Red Dot type sight worked extremely well, close range and it was very fast. Of course the M71 worked like a champ, and was extremely fast on target, and it was fast to work with. The 405 #13 Solids did their job. I recovered 3 of the 4 bullets fired.



Michael

Congratulations on a successful hunt Michael. Great photos!

I read your report upstairs, loved the extra photos. Looked like Mercedes enjoyed the hunt...

Quick question especially as this was the first African sojourn with the M71. How was the visual bullet impact with the 50 B&M Alaskan vs. what you've seen with the 50 B&M and its slightly heavier bullets?

quote:

Quick question especially as this was the first African sojourn with the M71. How was the visual bullet impact with the 50 B&M Alaskan vs. what you've seen with the 50 B&M and its slightly heavier bullets?

Cappy, I am going to answer that question at the bottom of this post.......... At least in my opinion....


The very next morning after the hippo, the M71 50 B&M Alaskan got it's chance at buffalo! We ran across a herd, and bringing up the rear was a good bull. I was set up on the sticks, when they started to run across in front of me, bull bringing up the rear. He was running at a fair clip, and I am an awful running shot, and normally would not take such a shot, but it was open for a way, he was close, 30 yards or so, I was on his shoulder and felt good, so I let fly with a 365 NonCon Lever Raptor at 2175 fps. Shot took him through both lungs, just behind the shoulder, and I could tell he was hit good, although he continued to go all out, I was swinging with him for the second shot, a 405 #13 Solid at 2120 fps and let it fly even though he was behind some trees and brush. What I did not know at the moment the 405 left the barrel, I dead centered a 5-6 inch diameter tree..... It was only that afternoon when we reviewed the video that Andrew noticed the bullet hit the tree, then hit the buffalo, and even exited the buffalo. Two days later I requested we return to the scene and investigate... We did, found the tree without question, it was 10 yds in front of my position, the buffalo was exactly 30 steps behind the tree. The 405 drilled the tree, hit the buffalo mid section, and continued on to EXIT the buffalo as well.... Pretty spiffy performance I would say!

At any rate, within just 10 yds or so of the second shot, he slowed up, herd left him behind, and he angled his way behind some thick brush and was waiting on us! He was only 20 or so yards away, but all I could see was his head, and there was no shot. Andrew and I watched him it seems a long time, and finally he walked about another 20 yards out of immediate sight, and lay down in some even thicker brush. As Andrew and I moved forward Andrew spotted him laying there, with his head to us. Again, brush was so thick, and I am burdened with the UltraDot, I could not see head from ass, and in fact had to ask Andrew which way the head was!!!!! At that moment, I was not happy with the UltraDot, I felt like if I had a proper scope, I could at least maybe work one of the solids through the brush and put an end to this before it got ugly.

We watched the buffalo for 10-15 minutes it seems, he would close his eyes, and I knew he was leaking down seriously at this point, but at the slightest movement he was wide awake! This could turn ugly quickly. Since I had no position on him at all, we went back, and around a large clump of bushes out of sight, at this point he was able to stand up to face us, but did not run away. Corris, which was about 15-20 yards behind, alerted us that he was on his feet.......

Andrew and I slipped around the bush, I could see him clearly at this point, put the dot on his shoulder and went to work on him. I hammered him 4 times with 405 Solids, which each shot pushing him back a step, until shot number 4 set him on his backside and he fell over with his back to me. I had 5 405 solids in the rifle to begin with, now down to one, I loaded up a couple and made our approach quickly, but with caution. He could not get up, and he was still breathing although much labored, but I could tell he was finished. When I was within touching distance he made one last grasp at life, rolled completely over to face me and expired then and there.

Man, I tell you, this was the meanest, most tenacious buffalo I had ever faced. That first 365 NonCon had destroyed both lungs, when he first stopped and was still standing, there was a blood pool 18 inches across and looked an inch deep. Where he had taken last position, and laid down, blood was everywhere, the first shot was for sure terminal. And, in many other lung shot buff I had done, all were stone cold after 30-50 yards, but not this Warrior, not at all, he would not turn loose and was hell bent for revenge. This absolutely had nothing to do with power of rifle, cartridge or bullet, this buffalo was and will be in my mind forever, the "Red Eyed Demon Buffalo From Hell".......

Now, let me explain.... The B&M Logo, buffalo of course, I had teased Jaun about a "Red Eyed Demon Buffalo"..... For my birthday, she had the guy that embroiders the shirts and T'Shirts do several black t shirts, with the "Red Eyed Demon Buffalo"........... A wicked looking thing to be sure.

Now this buffalo that just would not die, no matter how mortally shot, is and will forever be in my mind, "The Mighty Red Eyed Demon Buffalo From Hell Itself"........... What a true warrior, right to the last breath. By all rights, he should have been stone cold in a matter of minutes, but not him!






I want to reserve some of this story, especially concerning bullet performance for the Terminal thread above, so I might incorporate some of what I have written here, there, and add some more about bullet performance to go along with.

Now Cappy, back to your question........

quote:

Quick question especially as this was the first African sojourn with the M71. How was the visual bullet impact with the 50 B&M Alaskan vs. what you've seen with the 50 B&M and its slightly heavier bullets?

I feel that with these bullets, and perhaps some others we have designed for the 50 B&M Alaskan, it is king of the hill for lever gun, let me say... "Traditional Lever Gun" rifles, that fire big rimmed cartridge, traditional to lever guns.
These traditional type lever guns come up short on pressure levels and just cannot match the power of the bolt gun, and its higher pressure limits.

One can increase the effectiveness of these type rifles/cartridge by bullet design, and by caliber. This is what we have done, and accomplished it very very well. I did not find the 50 B&M Alaskan coming up short in any way, it was completely adequate for hippo, and buffalo and I would even take on elephant with it without an issue at all. With this being said, it still cannot attain the hitting ability of the 50 B&M in the bolt guns. The 50 B&M M70 is a hammer, and with even better bullets at higher velocity and same caliber, the lever gun cannot compete with that.

I love the M71s, better than the Marlins, they can handle a bit more pressure, are more heavy duty, but where they come up short for me is the versatility of a sight system. Because of top eject, pretty much limited to forward mount scope or red dot system. I can tell you today, I will never again use any red dot system, they just do not work proper for me, when in brush, and where in the hell can you go in the world that does not have brush, and if you do, then shots are too far anyway! On the M71, best of my knowledge today, I will be limited to a forward mount scout scope.. And then, I will come up short when things get closer than 15 yards because of field of view. With these things in mind, and I hate to say it, but I would in the future probably choose the Marlin platform because I can mount a proper scope right on top of it, and of course for this work I would use the Nikon 1x4....... I might loose a bit of velocity because of needing to say in that 45000 PSI or below, but the sight system is such an improvement for me, that is what I would sacrifice willingly.

The 50 B&M Alaskan did a great job, I am very pleased with the performance of rifle, cartridge, and of course the bullets.
At no time did I ever feel undergunned with it. I did feel "Under Sighted" and inadequate in this area.

After the mighty "Red Eyed Demon Buffalo", the 50 B&M Alaskan was retired for the hunt. I removed the UltraDot, and just sported around with the iron sights, which are excellent, Ghost ring Rear, and post front, and I am adequate up to about 25 yards with those. But, never used it anymore after the buffalo.

Michael

Thanks for the response Michael - makes perfect sense. I look forward to further comments on the TBP thread.

Took my friend Paul out shooting again friday evening. He is traveling to Zim with me in early Sept to hunt buff with Terry Anders. Kudos for him to look to shoot a buff on his very first trip to Africa. We started planning this trip well over a year ago and at that point he only owned a very old 308. So off to Michaels's ww went last fall to get him a 458B&M. We picked it up this past May and have been wearing the barrel out. It was kicking out live rounds occasionally while ejecting a fired round, off to Brian at SSK and 10 later back in our hands shooting great with no feed issues at all.
S all summer I have been taking him shooting and this past friday was a sort of final exam. I set up a dozen filled milk jugs, cinder blocks and plastic plant pots all around and made a walk thru course for us. I took the sticks and went in front making him carry the weapon live as if we were hunting. I would slap the sticks down and just point in a general direction making him find the sometime open and sometimes slightly hidden targets. Targets were anywhere from 30 to 100 yds. On some I would be saying shoot shoot shoot, others telling him to take his time. We went thru about 30 rounds and he looked like a kid in a candy store, smiles all over his face. He did pretty well. Not impala good, but for sure kudu good. Any misses were within a couple inches of the jugs.
The B&M preformed flawlessly. After he was done i ran some 500MDM own range in some shoot from the sticks run and shoot off hand again drills. That big rifle handles so well. Gonna take the little rifle, 458 SA B&M out this week and do the same. This will be a blast with this quick handling little beauty. If you dont have a Super Short B&M you just plain out are missing out on a fun shooting rifle!!

We will get a couple of more shooting sessions prior to leaving, anybody have any other fun drill ideas?

Brent

Sounds like you are putting Paul threw the wringer!

I don't think you can come up with any practice that would be better than what you are doing with him! Keep us posted on that. I am very sure he is going to do excellent......

By the way, I know you have told me, but what is the load you are using for him for buffalo????

Cappy you made a comment not long ago about the 458 B&M that I used in Africa, concerning the stock. I had not taken photos of that rifle in it's new stock, and the ones in the field did not show it very well.. I had to be on the range some today, so I took it out, and took some photos of it....

This little rifle did such a fantastic job on this last Safari, I am very proud of how it performed. So easy to work with and handle.......




Michael

Michael,
Paul is shooting 420 noncons and 450 solids I believe. Not sure what powder charge he is using on noncons, pretty sure it is 77 gr on the solids. I was not with him last night when he sighted in his actual hunting loads with the solids. He called me though and said it took 6 shots. He did them laying prone of the leadless lead sled. I bet that smacked him a bit. Not sure I want o shot a 458 B&M prone!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Cappy you made a comment not long ago about the 458 B&M that I used in Africa, concerning the stock. I had not taken photos of that rifle in it's new stock, and the ones in the field did not show it very well.. I had to be on the range some today, so I took it out, and took some photos of it....

This little rifle did such a fantastic job on this last Safari, I am very proud of how it performed. So easy to work with and handle.......



Michael

That is a beautiful rifle - well done!

It is a good stick of wood, not the greatest I have here, but very nice... The checkering is extremely nice. This stick is also about 1/2 lb lighter than most, which brings total weight of
the rifle to 7.5 lbs without the Nikon on top... Very nice and handles incredibly well.





M

For those with a 500 MDM there is 260 pcs. of new 375 RUM brass for sale on 24 Hour Campfire.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/..._RUM_brass_FS#UNREAD