Homely! OMG, now way! They are beautiful!

The difference between a Marlin and a BLR is like the difference between a 73 Hyundai and a brand new 7 series BMW. The heck with "traditional". If we can make a lever gun that will handle the .458 B&M or the 50 B&M, I say screw tradition. After just a few rounds the operation of the BLR gets super slick. It's hard to understand unless you have fooled with one. My only complaint is that they are a bit muzzle light IMHO.

Geez Michael I almost had a heart attack when I first read your post that we'd only have 7-8 boxes of .423 caliber bullets to share! Then I remembered that I was working on a order of at least 250 High BC HP spitzer bullets with Dan...pulse rate dropped right down.

Unless someone crops up with an order I'll likely take half.

Jim
There was a 1080 bullets in .423 made. 400/375 and 350/325, 15 boxes each, I just had 1/2 or so sent to me for you guys, Dan keeping the rest. Since I don't have a .423 ??????? That's all.

Dave
Yes the prospect of a BLR in 458 B&M or the other B&Ms has my attention! I normally go against tradition anyway, I mean after all the B&Ms are far from traditional to begin with! So........ We see what we see and who knows?

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim
There was a 1080 bullets in .423 made. 400/375 and 350/325, 15 boxes each, I just had 1/2 or so sent to me for you guys, Dan keeping the rest. Since I don't have a .423 ??????? That's all.

M

Yeah I deduced that right after I got over the initial brain fart.

I hope for your guys sake that the chamber can be cleaned up from 450 to 458 B&M. BLR's are a B I T C H to rebarrel, SSK will have a task ahead of them. This is why you don't see very many every rebarreled to other chamberings even though they would make perfect platforms. There are nearly NO gunsmiths in the country who will do it.

I have heard of some other Brownings that cannot be rebarreled ...

Doc M,
I be waitin' for the .423s.
My old McGowen barrels on 3 different 404s work great with .423 North Fork copper and .424 GSC copper.
I reckon a .423 brass CEB will be perfect.

I do need some more material for the CEB anecdote thread.
I better try them beyond 50 yards too, lest Will think those bugholes are at 4 yards again.

I havent seen specs on the 475 B&M yet-
But if the 458 wont clean up the 405 chamber , what about a 475 re-bore?

SSR

I received the BLR WSM magazine late yesterday, around 7 pm in fact, UPS was running very late for me. The magazine has an unexpected turn it seems and it might be an issue?

Take a look



Those forward lips are specifically designed to mold to a WSM small bore cartridge, and not really sure how much that can be manipulated? Of course I am not an expert at those things either?





The magazine lips mold right into the 338 WSM cartridge.


We can in fact fit the various B&M cartridges, as long as over all length is kept to 2.95 or less. 2.85-2.90 looks better. As you can see from the 458 B&M those forward lips kick out the front of the bullet. It also seems that in it's current configuration with the B&Ms it's a 2 down proposition, at least with the lips as they are? 3 down? Don't know, have not went that far.





A 458 B&M with a 400 gr Bullet has plenty of room.



50 B&M is not a problem at all, this is a 500 CEB BBW#13 Seated to length.




458 B&M SA--for the DPMS and semi's Plenty of space. Still those forward lips?



458 B&M Super Short and 50 B&M Super Short







Dave, the magazine on your 450 Marlin, straight lips all the way out??? Might be a better bet to work with that, if it is straight out lips and not blocked for length somehow???

Michael

Got up this morning and, after getting on the computer, the first thing I see is the above posting by Michael. THANK YOU, MICHAEL!
The magazine does look good for length. The possibility of machining the forward lips slightly looks good, but would have to have a gunsmith make his decision.
The alternative, using the .450 Marlin magazine, depends upon the forward block, if there is one.
Still, it seems as though it would be a probable conversion. I like it.
Max

Michael, perhaps I missed it someplace... Is the WSM magazine made from metal or is it a synthetic material? If it’s metal then it can be modified by a gunsmith or a metal-smith to correctly match the profile of the B&M. Perhaps a good metal fabricator could perform the work as well. If it’s synthetic then it would totally depend upon the material as to whether it can be modified or not.

Nothing a bastard file won't fix
Going from 450 marlin to a 458 Win Mag equivalent 458 B&M with a rechamber is pretty damn cool and cheap.

Jim

The magazines are metal, so something surely can be sorted out. Not by me of course! That's way beyond my pay grade!

Boomy

Sam confiscated all my Bastard Files his last visit, I had just done too much damage with them, so he packed them up and took them. I have not had time to replace them yet. I will have to keep them better hidden next time! He also took my big hammer, and the vise grips! Damn!

M

Just FYI

Just got off the phone with Brian, we talked about a lot of things, but the BLR was talked about some as well. He does not have the rifle Dave sent yet, but will by tomorrow. Evidently he has been looking into things a little further, nothing negative yet on the BLR. He also says that he thinks it very probable that the 458 B&M will clean out the 450 Marlin chamber, as we thought it would, so looks like there are options. He is going to check the magazine of the 450 Marlin out very closely with 458 B&Ms. No point moving forward with a "Single Shot" BLR--must get the 458 B&M to work through the magazine proper.

I am sending photos of the WSM magazine to Brian for him to look at as well.

Just an update on that front is all.

Michael

Michael

Small hijack here but i have been interested in the 338 WSM for a medium to go with the 416 B&M have you played with it much?

Thanks

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

Small hijack here but i have been interested in the 338 WSM for a medium to go with the 416 B&M have you played with it much?

Thanks

SSR

Check out the 9.3mm B&M

IBT

Yeah

But a 9.3 isnt a 338--

Some time you just like something--

the symmetry of

270--150 gr

338--250 gr

416--350 gr

appeals to me- and the trajectories are suprisingly close--

Jest on of those rifle looney things-

now a:

475-- 450 gr would fill things out--



SSR

Stupid question here:
Is there enough room in a 1895 Winchester for the B&M case?
Things could get pretty wild if there is.

Cheers, John

Won't fit in the internal magazine but I've been saying the model 71 can do a rimmed 50 B&M and 458 B&M with the stubby bullets using the 348 Win cases. That would be a powerhouse. Use the existing reamers and dies.

quote:

Michael

Small hijack here but i have been interested in the 338 WSM for a medium to go with the 416 B&M have you played with it much?

Thanks

SSR

Cross

Really not that much of a Hi-Jack in one sense! You see, the 338 WSM was the cartridge I was looking at when I discovered the 50 B&M Super Short, and the first case I wacked with a hacksaw and trimmed and the 50 Super Short was born! So the 338 WSM is relevant in my opinion.

I did the 338 WSM as soon as I could get hands on 300 WSM brass. So whenever the 300 WSM hit the market, I was playing 338 WSM. I have two rifles, one built by Geiges years ago, and the most recent about 5 yrs ago or so built by Brian. Both sport 22 inch barrels, and of course both of them are Winchesters! I have a good bit of data on the cartridge, even pressure traces. I would not look at the cartridge being a strong 250 gr bullet cartridge, but an excellent 225 gr cartridge. 225s at 2650 to 2700 max in 22 inches. Running pressures 60000 PSI to 64000 PSI. 2550 fps with 250s being max in 22 inches. Dropping down to 210s you are at 2750 fps and 200s at 2800.


I always had a passion over 338. But honestly, when we did the 9.3 B&M in 20 inches and run 9.3 caliber 250s at 2700 fps, that was the end of my 338s and 358s as well. For medium work.

Brian at SSK has my 338 WSM reamer, ya'll welcome to have Brian do you one. In addition to that, I have a 338 Ultra reamer there, 358 Ultra and 9.3 Ultra as well. I should sell the 9.3 Ultra, I never got past the first generation load development before the 9.3 B&M came along, that was the end of that too! I also have those 9.3/338 Winchesters! 9.3 B&M put an end to those as well! That 9.3 B&M just killed all that other stuff for me.

Speaking of which talked to Brian, as I said earlier, and found out there is a dozen folks building B&Ms up there right now! A lot of 50 B&M Alaskans. In fact Brian was having an issue from all the suppliers he has finding a new Marlin stainless laminated to covert to 50 B&M AK. Some fellow wanted one exactly like Layne Simpsons. I found one on gunbroker, bought it this afternoon and sending it up there for the guy. Seems there is a supply issue on new Marlins to the distributors????

Phats

I think Boomy knows more about a 1895 than I. I never held one in my life, not sure I ever even seen one, if so, never paid much attention to one, only thing I know uglier than a BLR!

HEH

Where's Dave---

Sorry guys, I am at the beach in New Jersey for a family Reunion. I heard a big boom today. CCMDoc must be shooting his 600 NE

Just checked the UPS tracker. My 450 Marlin has been delivered to Brian. Now, we'll get the straight dope.

Damn, that .458 B&M sure looks good in that magazine

Where the heck did everybody go? We had an earthquake back here and I am worried about you guys!

Michael, did we hear anything from Brian yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Where the heck did everybody go? We had an earthquake back here and I am worried about you guys!

Sorry Dave...I'd heard it was our Founding Fathers turning over in their graves! Hope all is well and all are safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Where the heck did everybody go? We had an earthquake back here and I am worried about you guys!

Michael, did we hear anything from Brian yet?

I am on the range this morning.

Cross L
I have both a .338 WSM and a 6.5 WSM barrel so I can switch them on a Remington left-hand short action. Oh, and my hunting partner of almost 30 years has the same setup in right hand. Mirror images.
We took the .338 WSMs to Namibia two years ago using 210gr Nosler Partitions. Only had one animal on this plains game safari that took more than one shot and this one took two.
Max

I finally started doing some load data on the 458 B&M SA. One of those things I have put on the back burner for a long time, too long, so had to get to it.

As a reminder, these are the B&M SA Cartridges for AR-10 Semi Autos. Also very good fit for a remington RSAUM bolt guns.

Currently, as of today, 300 gr bullets at 2450 fps, 325 gr bullets at 2350 fps, have only done one generation of 350s at 2140 fps, I am sure 350s will go to 2250 fps.

This is what I was tied up on today!

Air Con Coming to the Range--Starting Tomorrow I am told!









Michael

Air Con Coming to the Range--Starting Tomorrow I am told!



As long as Hurricane Irene doesnt blow it all away. I remember Hugo-- good luck , best wishes.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Air Con Coming to the Range--Starting Tomorrow I am told!



As long as Hurricane Irene doesnt blow it all away. I remember Hugo-- good luck , best wishes.

SSR

Cross

Looks like Irene is going to pass us here out to sea. Oh Yes, I was here during Hugo! Without power for a couple of weeks also, Ugly. Fortunately we only got 75-80 mph winds here on the compound. Looks like Irene is going to miss us, skirt the coast of NC and go North!

M

Air Con? If you have it I might come visit!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Air Con? If you have it I might come visit!

Supposed to come and start today--we see what we see?

Well at least we will have heat this winter maybe. Be nice not to have to listen to those jet engines running.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Well at least we will have heat this winter maybe. Be nice not to have to listen to those jet engines running.

Man I like that big jet burner I have! Maybe we can put some wings on that thing? Maybe mount some guns?

HEH.............

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Where the heck did everybody go? We had an earthquake back here and I am worried about you guys!

Michael, did we hear anything from Brian yet?

Dave!

I heard from Brian this morning. Below is straight from Brian;

quote:

Just finished looking over the Browning. Based on what I see the 2.250" cases will not feed. The gun relies on the insert in the mag for a feed ramp. To fit the 458 B&M this has to be removed. The barrel extension doesn't have any feed ramp so the rounds just hit the squared off end of it. Looked at the 458 B&M S.A. This might work in the mag and feed BUT it is to short to rechamber. Looked at the extension, it is a separate piece but is not sold through parts. Might be able to bore the factory barrel out and re-use it. This is speculation it this point as Mr. Bush does not want to use this gun to re-work.

I am sure anyone that would like to speak further with Brian about this he would be happy to talk to you.

It does not appear to be an "EASY" conversion as we had hoped it might be. Sometimes little things like "Feeding Proper" get in the way of progress! I think it might can be done with the 450 Magazines and a 458 B&M SA, but might not be as simple as a re-chamber. Really don't have a good idea until someone actually tries one out, and even then possibly run into a problem and not be able to do it?

If it was matter of 458 B&M, then I might bite that bullet myself and give it a try, 458 B&M SA--maybe, but how much more do we get with the 458 B&M SA than the 450 Marlin?

Dave, what can a 300, 325, 350 be pushed to in the 450 Marlin?

Take these things into account, is it worth the trouble? 458 B&M--Yes--But not possible. 458 B&M SA--Maybe? Maybe Not?

Michael

OK have to go now, but one little quick story on my buddy Lionhunter yesterday. I stole a comment Lionhunter made today over on the ultra big bore thread Concerning this;

quote:

Posted Aug 25, 2011 2:12 PM Hide Post
After reading and corresponding with Michael458, we decided to use the CEB #13 480gr in our .458Lott rifles for our Eles in 3 weeks. At Michaels urging we are also taking the CEB NonCon 450gr to try on PG and report back to him. We expect a very successful hunt.

BTW, we've both ordered 458B&M rifles, built by SSK, for delivery in about 12 weeks. We plan to use loads of 450gr #13 and 420gr NonCon CEB bullets in that rifle. Hope to use them on 2012 safari.


Mike
______________
SCI Life
NRA Life
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Mzuri
IPHA

Posts: 1550 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 18 November 2008 Reply With Quote

I was trying to get Lionhunter to get one of the Ultimate stocks for his new 458 B&M. You know those make excellent additions to the rifles, change your other stock out, put this on, and you are sporting around with a very light, hammer of an Alaska stopping rifle, the best I ever heard of. Throw some BBW$13s in the mix and it just gets better. So I told LH I have black and Redneck Camo, which he replied he was no redneck and did not need camo, give him black. I laughed my tail end off, then told him I let a little redneck sneak out in me once and awhile, and actually have a 416 B&M and a couple of Super Shorts in the camo, and kinda like them to be honest. Was not long before getting an email back saying how about change that black to a Camo, hell everyone has black, and let a little redneck sneak out!


Just too good! So I have one packed up now, going out to Brian Monday to fit up nicely with LionHunters New very versatile, African or Alaskan, 458 B*M! LOL.........

Good Night all!
Catch you tomorrow!

Michael

I just hope that camo stock doesn't cause an unbearable craving for RC Cola and Moon Pie!

Well, my hopes and dreams, dashed against the wall of practicality. Guess I'd better bury that one. Still, could take a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 and have a pretty good rifle...or the BLR in .450 Marlin and have a slightly better one due to the ability of loading to 60,000psi.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Well, my hopes and dreams, dashed against the wall of practicality. Guess I'd better bury that one. Still, could take a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 and have a pretty good rifle...or the BLR in .450 Marlin and have a slightly better one due to the ability of loading to 60,000psi.

Max

Well, if you can't do it with velocity per given caliber, do it with an increase in CALIBER!

50 B&M Alaskan

500 and 450 gr bullets, .500 caliber, 1850 fps, 18 inch Marlin or M71s! That will do!

Michael

Michael,
Definitely a possibility, but, since I currently have my Baikal .45/70 double rifle and access to my son's Marlin Guide Gun, may wait until after the .475 B&M project is completed. (hmm, weird thought, since I already have a .395 Max, could just rename a .50 B&M as a .495 B&M. nahhh.)

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
I just hope that camo stock doesn't cause an unbearable craving for RC Cola and Moon Pie!

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Michael,
Definitely a possibility, but, since I currently have my Baikal .45/70 double rifle and access to my son's Marlin Guide Gun, may wait until after the .475 B&M project is completed. (hmm, weird thought, since I already have a .395 Max, could just rename a .50 B&M as a .495 B&M. nahhh.)

Max, call it anything you want, it's yours! I don't care!

Well we are still waiting on new 474 barrels for my stainless 475 B&M project! Hopefully several will come in soon! These NEW CEB and North Fork .474s are killing me looking at the shelves covered with hundreds and hundreds of them! Something has to be done?

Have Mikes "CAMO" stock boxed up, sending to Brian Monday for his "Redneck 458 B&M Elephant Slayer" HEH HEH. Probably look a lot like this; UPDATE--Just now, picked up by Fed Ex, stocks on the way to SSK!





Hey I did a page for Andrew over on the B&M site, how about you guys take a look and let me know what you think???

Here is the link;

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...com/Hunt-Africa.html

Thanks
M

Michael458-

That top one looks exactly like I anticipate my rifle will look. Only difference I can see is that my Leupold 1.5-5x20 is illuminated and I use Leupold QR mounts and rings. I can feel the back of my neck burning just looking at that beauty! I have an uncontrollable urge to take a dip of snuff and listen to some Hank Williams Jr.!

Keep low and stay dry while Irene passes through!