Cross

Oh for sure, no one can really comprehend one of the Super Shorts until they actually handle one of them. It is just one of those things. I love to watch peoples reactions when they pick one up and mess with it. Secret? Well, it will remain a secret until they lay hands on one anyway.

I think I already mentioned this, I forget things, but when Alasken-Oz was here a few weeks ago, I had him and Brent out on the range shooting different things, and the Super Shorts were included. Oz got up, shot a few rounds, forget which one. Brent, Oz, and I sitting around the black table at the 25 yd bench, Oz sit down, Super Short in lap, looking down shaking his head, looked somewhat bewildered---

He looked up at me, and stated "I have to tell you this, when thinking of the Super Shorts I kept asking myself Why? I kept thinking, how Stupid a Super Short is! But now, after shooting it, handling it, I get it--I just can't decide which one I want?"

He first started off wanting a 475 Super Short--changed his mind a few times in the next day or so, and finally decided on a 458 B&M Super Short, like yours, I even had to trade stocks, and he got my camo stock off my personal gun! HEH..... He left with one of the base rifles to build a 458 Super Short on! LOL............................

458SS on Dangerous Game--Buffalo and Hippo? Whew! OK, I was asked this before. At first my immediate thought on the matter was No, not suitable. Then I started thinking about the extreme penetration of both the 325 gr BBW#13 Solid, the 295 BBW#13 NonCon, and not to forget the little 325 North Fork Expanding CPS as well. All driven to velocities that would hit rather hard, all with penetration characteristics that would get them to where they need to be! Then my thought was that all the heavies sure have been taken cleanly with a hell of a lot LESS than the 458 B&M Super Short. My answer is this, with those bullets, those bullets only, I do believe that the Super Shorts are capable, they are adequate and they would do a pretty decent job of it. Hell, I have shot buffalo myself with a HELL OF A LOT LESS. I won't put them in the "Stopping Rifle" class by no stretch, but capable and maybe even a little more than just adequate class, yes. But, only with those bullets mentioned, and I for sure would back up with the solids, and in the case of hippo, solids only.

M

Michael,

Thanks for your thoughts, since we are looking at a high-tech 458 projectiles at 2400 -2550. since proper design aids penetration, then how would the 458 SS not technically be at least the equal of an 458 WM?

Just trying to stay outside the box and look at the numbers

lets also remember, a 375 H&H 300 gr at 2500 is considered superb by many. At DG ranges how is a 458 300 gr BBW #13 at 2500 any less lethal?

I can't find terminals on the CEB BBW#13s either solid or Non-Con in the 458SS on web site, do you have them? I realize how busy you are but it would be nice to have that at some point this fall.


SSR

Michael

I had the magazine spring slip forward last night. I know it was posted but could you repost a picture of your fix. I just can't find it and don't want to do it wrong.

Thanks

Cross

These are just my thoughts and opinions, of course not set in gold, right, wrong, nor in between somewhere. So I suppose take it for what it is worth.

quote:

Thanks for your thoughts, since we are looking at a high-tech 458 projectiles at 2400 -2550. since proper design aids penetration, then how would the 458 SS not technically be at least the equal of an 458 WM?

Well, I think if you were comparing the 458 B&M Super Short loaded with these new bullets we have, and comparing with the 458 Win of the old days, with old bullets, hell I would MUCH RATHER be carrying a 458 B&M Super Short. But, just as these bullets enhance the Super Short, they also enhance the old standby 458 Winchester and it's equal the 458 B&M as well. Advantage of the bigger case, and added velocity with those SAME hi Tech bullets we now have.

In the case of the 375 vs 458, equal weight 300s--then this is the time old SD raises up and takes over. Deeper penetration with the equal NonCon in 375. Because of the SD factor in the little 458, that 295 does not weigh 295 after it shears, so it is going to be a tiny bit shy of penetration compared to even some of the more conventional .375 caliber bullets.

And for sure "Outside The Box" and I have to work at it myself to stay there. Old thinking dies hard, even with an open mind. And, it may be possible some of MY old thinking is leaking in on the above statements, bear that in mind too. I would have never in my entire life even have thought of shooting a buffalo with a 300 gr 458 bullet! NEVER. But here right now, I am getting close to entertaining that very thought!



SOLID


North Fork CPS



I have always used a Rule of Thumb concerning penetration from the test medium to the field, and of course BUFFALO. That Rule of Thumb is if a buffalo bullet gives me 20 inches of penetration in the test medium, then its a real buffalo bullet. How did I come to that? Back in the old days long before I had so many comparisons from the field to the test medium, I did have buffalo bullets shot in buffalo and killed buffalo. .458 caliber 500 Swift A Frame, 450 Swift A Frame and 500 Woodleigh Softs. I knew I had enough penetration on buffalo to do the job with those 3 bullets. So whatever I got in the test medium with those bullets, had to be a proper buffalo bullet. Penetration on those bullets run from 20-24 inches at velocities from 2100-2300 fps. So anything falling over 20 inches--thats always been a "Buffalo Bullet" to me. Falls under 20 inches I start getting concerned.

Well not long ago I shot a buffalo with a 350 Swift from the 416 B&M, it did a fine job, but only gives about 18 inches in the test medium, so by my standards it was a little short. Bullet was found on the hide, far side, broadside shot. But, it did get there and did fine.

Conventionals I have recovered one can add from 75% to 100% more penetration in animal tissue than test medium, safe to stay at or around adding 80%.

NonCons, everything I have compared to tells me that you can EASY double, or 100% more penetration, at a minimum.

The NonCon is very close, and in the old days my 20 Inch Rule of Thumb was based completely on conventional expanding bullet penetration. Of course, we are not talking "Conventional" and I think it is very clear from the performance we are seeing in the field with NonCons, that my 20 Inch Rule of Thumb needs to be UPDATED as well!

I am taking 50 Super Short and 475 Super Short to Australia, based on the test work with both of those with similar bullets to the 458, then I am not too worried about having enough rifle, cartridge, or bullet to hammer those buffalo Down Under!

There are probably a lot of things I need to update on the B&M website, and I have gotten behind on that, and now can't remember what I need to update, and what I already have. So this week, and next I continue to look at what I need to add there.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

I had the magazine spring slip forward last night. I know it was posted but could you repost a picture of your fix. I just can't find it and don't want to do it wrong.

Thanks

Cross, the spring slipped over the little hump in the front of the floor plate? Damn, I bent that thing down, and did not have an issue at all--But I don't remember looking at that before I got it packed up either?

If the spring moves forward during recoil, jumps the hump so to speak, then it puts the follower in a downward position and everything takes a nose dive. Move the spring back to level, slick as can be. But you gotta get that spring to the point it does not jump. The 50s are very bad for that, and two of the 3 I have I had to cover the front end of the spring with JB Weld to keep it from moving. I have not had any problems with the 475 or 458 by just bending the very front edge of the spring downward to keep it from jumping. And the first thing I did with yours is to bend it down.

M

Cross L,

I have photos handy of what I did to fix the problem on my M70 Winchester 500 Ripper:









The piece of flat steel I cut pieces from to bury under epoxy on the floorplate, and left showing on the underside of the follower:



Then I got a Sunny Hill floor plate and a McMillan stock, where the spring stays put without a fix,
but still using the same follower and spring and sheetmetal RUM box with reinforcement at the front:





Real Gunsmithing by Rusty McGee:





More Sunny Hill Winchester M70 stuff here, short magnum, drop RUM, etc.:

http://www.sunny-hill.com/70winchester.html

Woe is me ... This 500 Ripper M70 weighs 9 pounds and 3 ounces dry, and has a 24" barrel,
but somehow I will get by.

RIP

Thanks for that post, shows exactly what needs to be done to keep that spring from "Jumping the Hump"

Like the Sunny Hill Bottom Metal. Someday must check that out if they get a WSM version.

Just a second to explain some of the dynamics involved with some of these little things. First, lets take the case of the WSSM actions and the little spring jump they do when turned into Big Bore Super Shorts.

Here you have an action that was designed for 223, 243, 257, rat bullets. There is no recoil to reckon with here, and the magazine springs are loosy goosy, just flop back and forth as there is no need at all to lock them in. They don't move forward, no recoil to do so. Now, you introduce 458-500 caliber bullets, and a little bit of recoil, you have changed the dynamics of everything in there. Now, there is recoil to move that spring forward, jump the hump, and change the position of the follower--Hell you could not feed a round nose in that thing then! But look what a simple little thing it is to fix, even I can do it, and they don't allow me to have tools, I break far too many things when I work on them. Do this little thing, end of any issues with the B&M Super Shorts, its the only bug I know of at all with them.

The bigger B&Ms from 9.3 to 50 B&M have a bug as well when you go over 416 caliber. Here again, we have an action that was designed for rat bullets. Now we have introduced 400-500 gr bullets up in the nose of the cartridge, much heavier, and if you have loads down in the magazine, and snatch that bolt back, then the bolt dragging over the cartridge wants to pull that round out, and you have a "retaining" issue, keeping them in the magazine. Brian at SSK has proven to be a true expert at sorting this out, but it does not always require lots of serious rail work. Magazine box, follower, and other factors are involved as well, far beyond anything I can do. Another expert in this arena is D'Arcy Echols. D'Arcy has a lot of experience in this area as well. I would bet that RIPs guy, Rusty can do the same. It is a bit more tricky to do this than I can attempt and even have patience for, and the same goes for many real gunsmiths. We always have some issues with the 50 B&M in this regard, and the 475, and sometimes with the 458s. 416 and down is not near the issues, I don't recall having issues with either 416 or 9.3. But once Brian has this sorted out, it is a done deal from that point on.

I have two rifles there now, the newest 50 and 475 gunkote in those nice bastognes. As we know, I have stopped sending those stocks with the rifles back for tuning! But this time, I had to. Reason is, the rifles work perfect in the stocks that Brian has to work them in with. But as soon as I put them in the new bastogne stocks, they will not retain in the magazine. So, I had to send both back to Brian--In the new stocks. But, I sent them in my SKB case to protect them and keep UPS or Fed Ex from breaking them when they ride over them in the fork lift or trucks! Or at least, I have very high hopes of protecting them anyway! Once this little bug is sorted out, they will be ready for the DG fields of the world.

Anytime you take and make major changes to a system like this, then there will be system bugs to sort out, regardless of rifle make, or model. It is part of the process.

Michael

RIP

Thank you very much, those were the exact pics I remembered, I just was looking in the wrong place for them. Yes that silly little spring did slip forward and would not feed at all. Now I can make the proper fix. Thanks again

I have been looking at the Sunnyhill drop floor plate for my 416 B&M but this close to my trip am bait afraid to start changing things touch. perhaps When i get back, Its "That close" to 4 down as is. One other question-does the drop floor plate require a spring change? I wonder about the strength of some mag springs anyway.

Michael

Do you remember how sticky the camp stock on the 458SS was-well I helped it a bunch. Hey I rubbed it down with Anti-Monkeybutt Powder-



It worked! there is a thin sticky film that is rubbing off now that it has soaked up the powder. That Anti-Monkeybutt Powder is the real deal.

SSR

Cross
My sincere apologies for letting that spring slip by me. I bent it down, seemed secure, shot the rifle however many times, zero issues, but I don't remember checking the spring after that! I think I was in such a rush to get it to you that it slipped my mind. I am so damned sorry, those things are supposed to be sorted out before they leave my hands! Hell,that's about the only purpose I can serve, and I failed that! Damn!


Oh yes, I remember the sticky stock! Can't no one figure that one out? What the hell is "Anit-Monkeybutt Powder"




When I unwrapped the gun--wrapped in bubble wrap in the gun case--it felt like that stuff they used to spray on your hands when you were playing football--sticky stuff. As I shot the rifle, handled it more, seemed to not be as bad.

MonkeyButt Powder! HEH HEH..

Have you shot it yet?

M

Michael
I have about twenty rounds through it-will do some more shooting today-have a buddy DDRHook coming by, he's visiting from Kenya.Yeah the spring slipped on the third magazine full, I knew from your description what it was immediately and it didn't take long to rectify

As for Anti-monkeybutt powder it is the greatest stuff ever-talc and calamine--eliminates sweaty itch down where it happens, works great for feet also they carry it at Wal-mart now, I get mine from Tractor Supply

check it out here-

http://01mrmotorcycle.blogspot...t-powder-review.html

besides -its just fun to say, and offer to your buddies----

till they try it, then they steal your can of it

SSR

PS it comes in pink for the ladies also--

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:

I have been looking at the Sunnyhill drop floor plate for my 416 B&M but this close to my trip am bait afraid to start changing things touch. perhaps When i get back, Its "That close" to 4 down as is. One other question-does the drop floor plate require a spring change? I wonder about the strength of some mag springs anyway.

SSR

Cross L,
I have had no problems using the same spring, follower, and box, as shown from a RUM M70, with the Sunny Hill drop floor plate and McMillan stock.
The quick fix on the original RUM M70 floor plate was good, but with the 500 Ripper it allowed only two down in the box,
now I get an easy 3-down plus one in chamber.

Smooth-side-down of black vinyl electrician's tape is used to smooth and flatten the surface of the JB Weld blob,
covering the small piece of flat steel.
Then another piece of tape, sticky side down holds it all in place as it hardens.
Similar to using the vinyl tape on a barrel with release agent when glass bedding a barrel channel.

The windowed RUM box is not a Mauser-Cosine-Perfect box for the 500 Ripper,
but the extra work Rusty McGee did on it has made it work: Retains and feeds even the old-style North Fork FPS, and CEB BBW#13.
Of course it is as slick as greased owl poop with the CEB Raptor and MTH.

RIP

Thanks, we are shooting for a couple of days-company in-but I will try to get started on that by the end of the week. Thank you for the precise instructions. we who are all thumbs need all the help we can get.

SSR

Michael,

Follow RIP's link to the Sunny Hill website...they make CM and SS in their post-64 Short Mag drop box, not sure about standard depth. Likely a phone call is in order.

Cappy

Keep nagging at me until I eventually check on the Sunny Hill for a B&M. You know how I am about these things! HEH HEH............ Especially if I have to make a phone call!


It's gonna be a good week this week guys! I got things coming, like Christmas! First I am very excited about Mike (LionHunter) and my guy Henry, the elephant leather rifle slings, and cartridge holders left via Fed Ex today on their way to South Carolina! I can't wait to see them and try them out! Looking very much forward to them!

Second. Sent my two Super Shorts 50/475 up to Brian to have some new engraving put on them for stupid customs people around the world, now says 50 B&M/300WSM and 475 B&M/300WSM, that should sort the idiots out. They are on the way back, and I will be getting them ready for Australia by the end of the week.

Next--Remember the logos? Have black/gray patches and the yellow/red patches being done right now as we speak, hoping they will ship to me this week as well. They sent me a photo of the black/gray logo, and it is very difficult to get that gradient effect fading from gray to black. The black/gray is Black and Gray, gray center, black edge, no real gradient as I hoped for, but I still approved them as they look pretty good anyway. The buffalo really came out good, and the red letters look good as well. Have not seen the red/yellow sample, but told them to do it anyway, send them, and they are going to do their best for more of a gradient effect from yellow to red on the edges. We see what we see, I think they will be fine, even if not exactly right on the gradient.

Also, looked and and purchased about a truck load of shirts this weekend! I have several Tag Safari shirts on the way, along with 511 and Bob Allen shirts. All these are going to have the logos embroidered on them before I decide which type shirts I like and represent the B&Ms proper. Then we can look at getting some more done. So that will be fun too. I am going to work with two different folks here in SC on the shirts, see who can come up with the best work. And, get the gradient as good as possible, if possible.

Will keep you posted on these things!

I am going to start loading ammo tomorrow for Australia. Have to do some training sessions with the boys for this mission as well.

Michael

Don't forget the Anti-Monkeybutt powder--



SSR

Since I couldn't get to Henry's shop to view your finished products - the heel w/boot is really slowing me down - you must post pics once you've received your leather goods. I'm pretty sure you're gonna like what Henry has done for the B&M cartridges. We need to get him some more orders before he gets directed to other products. Heh- Heh

Is it just mine or do all winchester M70 WSSM actions cock on closing?



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Is it just mine or do all winchester M70 WSSM actions cock on closing?



SSR

Yep, I reckon So, all of them, each and every one.

M

Cock on closing? I don't think so but now you have me wondering. I never even noticed but I do know all other model 70 cock on opening.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Cock on closing? I don't think so but now you have me wondering. I never even noticed but I do know all other model 70 cock on opening.

Well then, I don't get it? What does it matter long as its cocked and goes bang? Some things are beyond me. HEH...........

M

Every other M70 I have ever seen cocks on opening. I was dry-firing the 458 SS the other day and noticed I had to draw the bolt back just a little bit and push back home for it to cock. Perhaps something to do with the short action? It makes no difference, just found it curious.

SSR

Open bolt and don't pull it back close bolt if it cocks its cock on opening. You will see firing pin move backward as you close bolt. This might make you think its cock on close. Cock on close you have to push bolt forward to cock it as you close bolt. I think I'm going to drive home and take a look at one. You guys have got me wondering now. Another thing on a model 70 if you fire it and open bolt and take it out of action without closing it the bolt should be easy to disassemble if its cock on opening.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Every other M70 I have ever seen cocks on opening. I was dry-firing the 458 SS the other day and noticed I had to draw the bolt back just a little bit and push back home for it to cock. Perhaps something to do with the short action? It makes no difference, just found it curious.

SSR

OK yes, that is the way all of them are, all mine anyway. Sometimes you can just pop open the bolt and not go back with some of them, but most have to move rear just a tiny bit. This is correct!

I just tried it on several. Can tell we are not gunsmiths--just shooters! HEH HEH.......... I don't care, long as it works! LOL........

M

I received my leather work from Henry Flores yesterday, and I was completely and incredibly happy with how everything turned out!

See the new thread here on big bores;

http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/8891027671


Now, I am so pleased with these slings, and the cartridge slides, I spoke with Henry yesterday at length, and we are going in together on this project. Henry is going to see if he can get a branding iron made with the B&M Logo--with the buffalo in it! I am sending Henry some more elephant leather and cape buffalo leather, and contracting with Henry to make slings, and cartridge slides and branding with the B&M Logo's on them! I love these slings and cartridge slides.

I am also going to have Henry do some slings and slides in cow leather as well with the B&M logo!











We want the B&M Logo here in the middle of the wide part of the slings.





B&M Logo on the back of the cartridge slides.




Cartridge slides are designed for the B&M cartridges, and pictured is the 458 B&M.

We are VERY EXCITED about working with Henry on these projects!

Check the thread out for more information on these.

Michael

OK I couldn't stand it any longer, I went home and checked my Super Short model 70s and they are COCK ON OPEN as I thought. You guys just about drove me nutts with this one.

Nice leather Michael!!!

Sam

Ah...wake up in the morning and find a bit of humor...'cock on opening'...'cock on closing'...'don't care as long as it goes bang'... Yep, definately a better day ahead!

Michael I commented on your other thread - nice product and offering a similar product with the B&M branding on your website is a major

Sam is making sense to me.
Hard to imagine why the M70 super short action
would have to be reconfigured as a cock on closing
when all other M70 Winchesters, short and long action,
are cock on opening.
I don't own a WSSM action, but have fiddled with one at a gunshop.
Sum buddy need coffee, or is there some other problem here?

Just got back from the U.P. 6 days of giving the 50 B&M SS a work out.

I put a Trijicon 1.25-4 W/ green post on it, bears beware at last light.



Here's how the 18 5/8" barrel did on velocities.

All loads were Lil'Gun in Winchester 325 WSM cases sparked by Federal Gold Match 210 primers.
Cutting Edge Bullet 345 gr. BBW#13
Temperature 68 F
Elevation 745'
Humidity 68%
Chronograph set at 10' from muzzle

Starting load 47 gr. 2059 fps
2052 fps
2035 fps
2045 fps
2047 fps

48 gr. 2108 fps
2072 fps
2085 fps
2092 fps
2087 fps

49 gr. 2152 fps
2160 fps
2147 fps
2167 fps
2170 fps

50 gr. 2237 fps
2201 fps
2197 fps
2225 fps
2246 fps

51 gr. 2283 fps
2278 fps
2336 fps
2306 fps
2310 fps

At 51 gr. this is what the primers looked like.
There's only .001" case expansion at 51gr.


This is at 100 yards 10 shots, a 5-7 MPH wind right to left.

CW it looks like you have a winner! Nice shooting also.

Coyote wacker:
Outstanding 10-shot, 100-yard group!
Those stubby barrels are stiff and accurate.
And getting 400 to 500 fps faster than a maxed out
500 S&W handgun.
Does your super short M70 cock on opening?

I want this to be known right here, and now to ALL

I Know NOTHING about Cocking! ZERO--Notta, nothing!


CW--OUTSTANDING shooting--You must come do all my shooting, I can't do that at 50 much less 100



That load shows as 62000 PSI and very safe. I think the Super Shorts peak quick, and pressure gets out quick, I have shot some at well over 70000 PSI and rifle opens easy, no serious signs, nothing ugly. I will be using this exact same load in Australia in a few weeks, or rather one of my boys will.

Excellent shooting, just excellent. I take it you are pleased with everything?

Off to the range a bit, gotta work in some loads and POI with the 475 B&M--starting to get ready for Australia.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by coyote wacker:
Just got back from the U.P. 6 days of giving the 50 B&M SS a work out.

I put a Trijicon 1.25-4 W/ green post on it, bears beware at last light.



Here's how the 18 5/8" barrel did on velocities.

All loads were Lil'Gun in Winchester 325 WSM cases sparked by Federal Gold Match 210 primers.
Cutting Edge Bullet 345 gr. BBW#13
Temperature 68 F
Elevation 745'
Humidity 68%
Chronograph set at 10' from muzzle

Starting load 47 gr. 2059 fps
2052 fps
2035 fps
2045 fps
2047 fps

48 gr. 2108 fps
2072 fps
2085 fps
2092 fps
2087 fps

49 gr. 2152 fps
2160 fps
2147 fps
2167 fps
2170 fps

50 gr. 2237 fps
2201 fps
2197 fps
2225 fps
2246 fps

51 gr. 2283 fps
2278 fps
2336 fps
2306 fps
2310 fps

At 51 gr. this is what the primers looked like.
There's only .001" case expansion at 51gr.


This is at 100 yards 10 shots, a 5-7 MPH wind right to left.

CW---

I just looked over my data compared to yours. The extra barrel has not bought you any velocity, as I suspected, but actually hoped it might. Lower charges I am actually ahead of you a tad, when at 51/Lilgun we are pretty even, about 12 fps apart, with you being in the front. I think you can take it to 52 easy.

Michael

Thanks guy's for the compliment on my bench shooting. The whole package gun and bullets is what made a big difference, I just held on and squeezed the trigger.

I've owned 358's to 458's and have never had one that would even come close to the accuracy of my 50 B&M SS.

Michael....I don't think I could day in day out shoot like you do !
I'am very happy with the gun and bullets, it was well worth the wait.
The magazine spring needs to be J-B Welded,I never had a problem with dummy round but with live rounds under recoil I had to double pump it to feed. Maybe Brian should offer it as part of a gun build ?

HEH HEH.. a Winchester 70 SS 300 RUM should be here next week..HUUMM........366 B&M

Great shooting coyotewacker! Those Super Shorts have a lot of horsepower to be in a pony size.

CW---

I just looked over my data compared to yours. The extra barrel has not bought you any velocity, as I suspected, but actually hoped it might. Lower charges I am actually ahead of you a tad, when at 51/Lilgun we are pretty even, about 12 fps apart, with you being in the front. I think you can take it to 52 easy.

Michael[/QUOTE]


Michael..

Looking at the primers and case expansion of .001 I would keep going in .5 gr. increments. And see when I did reach a point of primer flatting, or .003-.004 case expansion. But you have done pressure tests at 62000 PSI.

I will give it a try of 51.5 gr. and 52 gr. and see where it goes. It's way to HOT in the 90's to do range work ,I will wait until we get some 70's.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Sam is making sense to me.
Hard to imagine why the M70 super short action
would have to be reconfigured as a cock on closing
when all other M70 Winchesters, short and long action,
are cock on opening.
I don't own a WSSM action, but have fiddled with one at a gunshop.
Sum buddy need coffee, or is there some other problem here?

I am not sure what the deal is but:

When you lift the bolt and return it straight back down, the action does not cock the firing pin moves back slightly but the trigger still is dead. This condition remains till you move the bolt approximately 3/8 in to the rear. You can then return to battery ,the firing pin cocks fully and the action is cocked so that the trigger works. If you keep opening the bolt the firing pin stays in that half way position till the bolt is returned forward and fully cocks only as it goes into battery.

My other M70's Fully cock when the bolt is lifted initially, Checked them again this afternoon and thats whats happening.

Sam , see if that is in fact what yours do please.

And like Michael says--it really doesn't matter-it just took me by surprise-

SSR

CW

Thats the same scope I have on both my 416 B&M and 458SS B&M. I have gotten to love the thing and find it shootable out to 150-200 yes at least.

I sure hope you like your 50SS as much as I am liking my 458SS



SSR

Cross you have a problem if your gun doesn't cock when you lift the bolt up. You should see the back of firing pin come back as you lift the bolt and it should stay that way while pulling bolt back. If the pin is slipping back you have a timing issue. There is a notch in the bolt that the firing pin snaps into. This notch could be in wrong place or not deep enough, or the cocking angle on the firing pin isn't properly shaped. Be careful your gun may slam fire when closed.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Cross you have a problem if your gun doesn't cock when you lift the bolt up. You should see the back of firing pin come back as you lift the bolt and it should stay that way while pulling bolt back. If the pin is slipping back you have a timing issue. There is a notch in the bolt that the firing pin snaps into. This notch could be in wrong place or not deep enough, or the cocking angle on the firing pin isn't properly shaped. Be careful your gun may slam fire when closed.

something like that was what I was wondering, it sure didn't look right to me. the firing pin is coming back Partially and staying there till the bolt is pushed back into battery when it fully cocks.

fiddles and cuss words i guess its send it back to Brian time.

Michael-- does Brian hate me?



SSR

SSR

quote:

fiddles and cuss words i guess its send it back to Brian time.

Michael-- does Brian hate me?

SOB and lot's more cuss words! How is it always YOU! Last time you broke the damned safety, after I went completely through your rifle and it had no problems! Then you get it, break the safety! Now you break the Super Short right when I thought it was perfect! You are trouble! I thought I broke more crap than anyone on the planet, I see I have some competition it seems!

No man, teasing! Call Brian tomorrow and talk to him about it. I just went and did a dozen of them and every one of them stays cocked, lift bolt straight up, let it straight down. I can't believe yours won't do that! Who'd you get that POS from?? HEH HEH HEH........ Speak to Brian, he will know, maybe something you can do and not have to send??? But not a problem if you do have to send either.

Sorry--crazy stuff!

Michael