Ed
In an earlier post you were talking about the Greener single shot lever as a possible conversion.
Do you think it would be strong enough or as strong as the H&R/NEF?

Have been told the 577 or the 303 Martini actions are not strong enough to even put a 220 swift on, the limit is about a 222 rimmed and even then it should not be loaded right up.

what about a scaled up Ruger No.1 wouldn't that be better/stronger?

The scaled-up Borchard is incredibly strong( probably way too strong for this application) as would be a No.1. The issue is who is going to make one. The time involved would be really high for someone like me who is a competent machinist with the right equipment. Waffenfabrik- Hein is making a single shot action that should be excellent, but it's pricey. If I build another one, I think thats the way I'd go. You still need a barrel with at least a 1.6 inch diameter at the breech and enough thread length ( 1.5 inches min, so your action thichness and weight start to become an issue real quickly. Horsepower costs money!-Rob

Ed- I have given quite a bit of thought to a six gun based DGR. I was just going to make a .500S&W that would hold more powder and put a rifle stock on it. Now a 12 Ga FH short on a six shot revolving rifle,talk about firepower, talk about reliability, now thats a DGR!! on steroids!-Rob

Thought this was about shotguns. Not much interested in them. Started to read and could not stop. For a really economy model, do either of you think Remingtons SPR 100 12gage work for this? With a new bbl of course. I dont know anything about its strength just that its less than 100 dollars for the gun.
Dick

Bigholes- probably would not last long if at all with just the 12gaFH short. -Rob

How much would a single loaded shell cost? I want one basically to show-off to friends with. Thanks.

can i have one???

do you do paypal?

bridger solid?

thanks!

cool!

is the bridger solid a go?

thanks

what about using filler in the loads, what would that do????

i meant filler in the loads not the dummy...would the use of filler help the powder economy? performance?

You should always avoid fillers if possible. Particularily when operating at these power levels. Too many guns have been damaged by fillers for my taste with no really solid scientific explantion as to exactly why. The 12 GaFH does just fine with 325grs of Rl-25, a 1000 gr Bridger and no filler.-Rob

I have to say that I have been following this thread and just shake my head in wonderment. I understand that you all are out there trying to get 11,000 ft-lbs and more and develop a perfect stopper for a T-72, but I wonder eventually if you think that you will develop something that is actually shootable by us folks who try to stay under 100 ft-lbs of recoil? Say using Hornady's new 50 caliber 325 grain sabot 12 gauge slug at something like 3,000 fps?

I do like the idea of 1.75 ozs of buckshot at 2,500 fps though....

Thanks and keep up the good??? work....

Ed,
The Zabala Hermanos 12 gauge, 3.5" chamber side by side smoothbore shotgun has the following characteristics:
Breech diameter: 1,170"
Muzzle diameter: .818
Barrel diameter in front of the monoblock: 1,020"
Bore diameter: .728
Choke: Modified (both barrels) standard, no screw-in choke tubes.
Barrel length: 32 in.
Barrels are chrome lined. Safe to be used with steel shot loads. It is proofed at 1,370 bars (20,139 psi).
Sorry, no 10 gauge to measure.
Dealer told me that there is another Zabala, model XL 90, over and under with 26in. barrels that has the same specs. as the 213M, but with the addition of screw-in choke tubes.
Lefteris

You can always load down the 12 Ga FH short to whatever level your shotgun can handle. Srew in a rifled tube at the end and use a sabot as Ed has developed. Paradox plus! What a close range stomper!
Don, my 12 Ga FH is surprisingly shootable. Don't let the numbers scare you, Your talking basic .50 BMG level recoil when built properly. I've shot mine offhand many times. It weighs only a little more than a M60 and lots of us humped them many clicks in a far away asian country long ago.-Rob

Ed,
Did you receive the two e-mails I sent?
Lefteris

My dad doesn't approve of me sending out letters to strangers to buy dummy rounds...maybe I can have my uncle recive it some time, all I know is I want one of those loads to show my friends.

A little while ago I saw a Ruger Red Label shotgun that had been converted to a over/under 416 Rigby. After seeing that I got to wondering if maybe this action would be suitable for a 12GaFH? It would be a damn fine double rifle!

Hi Metalsmith,

Was this 416 developed from a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge Red Label?

It was made from a 12 gauge, the work was done from Jaeger. It was beautifully crafted with color case hardened metalwork and blued barrels. I saw it on GunBroker and now it's not there, but they do have a 20ga/45-70 setup with a Red Label. I only have limited experience with the Red Label but after seeing a 416 built on it, I have to wonder how strong the action really is!

Speaking of which I'm about ready to tool up and put my Savage 210 to the works in a custom rifle. I was curious, does anyone know if Hawk Bullets can produce 12-bore bullets or am I left to making them myself? Or is Bridger the only real source of bullets? It's driving me nuts trying to find 12-bore bullets!

Hi Metalsmith,

I have a Red Label in 12 gauge which I have had for many years (and old anniversary present). Unfortunately though I have no idea as to how "strong" the action is. It has been a great sporting clay and waterfowl gun over the years though.

I wonder if the new Ruger Gold Label side by sides could be converted?

Got ahold of Hawk bullets and they'd be more than happy to start up with making 12-bore bullets. They've had a few problems in the past with a fellow not being able to decide on a proper bullet diameter. I'm going to keep in touch with them and get a price quote as soon as I slug my barrel. Will keep you updated on my progress with these bullets.
Hubel458-If I do happen to place a order, would you like a few of these bullets for load testing? I'm planning on settling with a 750 grain bullet with a .045 jacket.

Ed-I'm going to send Hawk bullets a e-mail today stating the diameters I've posted and get a inquiry.
As of right now I have a Savage with the original barrel, and a heavy barreled Encore. I'm in the process of getting a larger tube on the Savage. I'm thinking about doing a straight bull barrel, 1.5" thick out to 24 inches and putting a set of express sights on it. I'll let you know how it goes.
As for now I'm doing load testing with the Encore slug barrel until the Savage is complete.

Ed-I forgot to ask, what rate of twist are you using with your setup?

you are a gun frankenstein genious!

Ed you're a genius! Hey I haven't gotten word back from Hawk Bullets yet but I'll let you know as soon as they write me.
Thanks for the stats. I'm going to order a tube as soon as I transfer to California. Thanks again for the measurements. I think I'm going to go ahead and get the 1 in 20 twist just in case I feel like spinning up a few larger bullets on the lathe.

ed...these 350 gr pointy bullets from hornady need a run in the 12gfh...they should have a pretty good trajectory and down range ballistics also their 500 gr jfn should be awesome on a hog for the grenade affect...can you find a hog where you live to be the guinea pig ( wow that was funny guinea pig i'd hate to be that guinea pig )

use a digital camera and use the movie function...the sound will be fun to listen to as well. if you need help p.m. me

Ed,
I'm waiting for your shipping address to send slugs for testing. Is the white shotcup with the 600NE bullet, the Ranger-Plus from Ballistic Products Inc?
Lefteris.

ed...can someone make you a tungsten penetrator bullet??? now that would be somethin

Hah, ya'll are really pushing to see just what you can launch out of that rifle huh?
I haven't heard from Hawk Bullets yet, it seems like they just dropped off the face of the earth. Great customer service huh?
Anyways that tungsten penetrator bullet sounds like a good idea actually. Let me scounge around in my shop for a little bit and I'll let you know what I can do about that alright?
Best Regards

metalsmith...cool!

what design? flat nose? spitzer?

Ed,
Please, check your e-mails.
Lefteris.

Hell I was thinking maybe a flat point, LBT style. A Spitzer might be a little bit long and heavy, but than again it is a cannon! Any suggestions or what do you think?
Actually I was looking around in my shop and I have several chunks of good brass and some pre-heat treated 420J2 stainless steel. The tungsten I have is only TIG welding rod, which is rather small. So...there might be a few prototypes before I decide on a actual finished product. Any suggestions would be helpful!

i was thinking of a wide flat nose conical like the bridger solid minus the driving bands. if you make it a .500 and 525 grains to get .3 s.d. everyone with a 500 s&w will be your best friend. it should penetrate anything within a quarter mile. good luck

Shot a 610 grain hollowpoint Dixie hard
slug into 6 gallon sealed pail of water.
Took 730 gr DIXIE and hollowpointed it.
Going about 3000 fps, and real big hollowpoint.
First pic is pail with crimped on top.
Pail full and has filler spout capped.
Second pic,impact with water atomising,
and pail blowing apart.In the next small
fraction of a second is third after impact
with shelf cleared, the hyrostatic pressure
down, has bent top of steel frame shelf.
Same blast put jug pieces all over.
Got to get a 15 gallon one. Behind
you see my wood bundle backstop...Ed

Ed, you got some horsepower there!

I'm still waiting on the smoothbore sabot test with the 1/2 Oz. Tungsten dart.

Keep on keepin' on!

Ed- Great pics! The .600 OK will duplicate that feat! Neat thing about ultra big bores. The smack down effect! I have a pic of a deer body shot on purpose with the .600Ok.Looked kinda like the water bucket.-Rob