Msorenso- You just gotta read this whole thread to learn about the NEF. This is cutting edge stuff and still experimental. Its not turn-key like a .600Ok or .700AHR. You might talk to AHR and see if they have any interest.-Rob

Hardinge makes custom collets.
At their site, click Custom Manufacturing.
Lefteris.

About 34 days out of surgery, and still not ready to get hard back at the user-friendly dart-stabilized projectile work yet. But if any very particular projectiles come up of most any bore or construction which I can use my proven programs on, I’m willing to look at them and try to help. Best if you can post a sketch of the projectile as it would appear in flight…

NEF route is using new england firearms break open heavy barreled shot gun.. no licensed gun smith will make one of these yet, as they are still X . eXperimental

Congrats on all the progress and 50k views.... Here's looking at the next 50k and many guns being made

Here is a Savage 210 with bottom of action opened up
toward the back, to take cases with 3.5" overall length.
Slug Warrior on Shotgun World did it. Is similiar job the
Brett in MN did, but he made his opening 3.7". I measured
mine and they can be opened to 3.95". They also milled
the rim guides back for controlling case feeding on longer
cases. Ed

ED- Nice pics! Pretty easy mods to the receiver.Glad you posted it.
Well we made over 50K views! Wonder if any thread ever hit this level on AR before?-Rob

RIP- If you need it, send me your collet and a RMC case and I'll open it for you. I probably should have offered to do this in the first place. -Rob

Rob,
Thanks, thanks much.
PM an address to send it too, please.

Chinese-made 5C-Collet fixture that can be mounted vertically or horizontally. The collets are about $10 each.
The 3.5" RMC cases are about $8 each.

Rob,
You need to get a boxcar full of this brass delivered to Nevada. Ask Ed where he got it.
There will be zero case loss with forming this stuff into 12GaFH:

Before annealing:









After annealing:

RIP's Ol' Blacksmith Shoppe is open for Business...!!

Nice job on the annealling!! I tried to anneal one of the first 2-Bore prototype cases once - I think the .125" wall thickness at the web acted like a big heat sink - never could get it hot enough..!!

I just bought two NEF's to be converted to Super-NEF's( 3.85 inch cases). I'm actually excited about the project. I also plan to make some reloading dies.
RIP nice job of fireforming. That annealing trick really works wonders.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Chinese-made 5C-Collet fixture that can be mounted vertically or horizontally. The collets are about $10 each.
The 3.5" RMC cases are about $8 each.

You guys are making this VERY interesting

Rob,
That was not fireforming, just annealing the basic (per your technique) in order to neck down to .666 Teufel Jagter, the devil's work for Macifej. That annealing made the neck-down to .666 very easy. That is Macifej's "scary" pet.
No one is brave enough to build one.

I say your 12GaFH will do it all!
Long live the .729!

That NEF of mine is sweet, hand reamed to 3.85" chamber length.

I was not able to chronograph yet, but I did fire 2 shots of 50-grain IMR-4227 charge to get it near zero at 25 yards with the Darwin "Triple-Weight" slug.

I then fired a 65-grain charge with the 3.25-ounce/1400-grain slug, and happily found it to shoot just a hair lower (as it should with higher speed, less barrel time, and therefore less muzzle lift before it left the barrel).

Also, the recoil of that load in my 11.25-pound scoped NEF was quite pleasant. Just a friendly shove. Should be no problem with higher velocity in brass cases.

The NEF might be suitable for quail (plastic hull and shot) or elephant (brass hull and brass FN solid), with a gunbearer loading and handing that second NEF to you. Yep, I'll have to get a second one too ... Of course a jumbo-sized High Wall would be even better.







The 3.25" length roll crimp of the 3.5" hulls seems to be reliable. The inertia of the 3.25-ounce slug assures no ignition problems!

The base measurements were included on the target above. Ed may be interested.
My chamber is perfect for the thick walled RMC brass cases, and allows quite a bit of expansion room for the thin, brass-plated steel bases of the plastic hulls.
That is from the do-all chanber reamer by Dave Kiff, called "12 GA. FROM HELL," same as his 3.5" reamer stretched out to 3.85".

My next outing will be with the NEF to chronograph with plastic hulls, then move on to brass hulls.
These plastic hull Darwin loads should work fine in the Mossberg 835 slug gun.
The NEF can handle more, according to Ed.

Mossberg has a 1:36" twist.
NEF has a 1:35" twist.
The custom barrel 1:20" twist should be more than enough for any slug or bullet imaginable from a 12GaFH 3.85".

And I checked my zero on the squirrel rifle:



A family tradition, the Turkey Day Squirrel Hunt, is coming up!

The 12GaFH will harkens back to another of my family traditions: 8 year-old males get to try Pop's 12 Gauge.

The 12GaFH has potential to deliver to the adult what a 2.75" load does for an 8 y.o.
Shock Therapy for mood elevation!

And the 18" tap wrench and cutting oil the home gunsmith needs to rechamber the NEF by hand:



You also need a vice with some vice blocks that allow you to orient the disassembled barrel of the NEF vertically, breech up, muzzle down.

If you are a wee lad doing the smithing, such as a precocious 8 year-old, then stand on a stepstool while you twist the tap wrench.

A recap from previous pages:

The reamer:



The easy stamping method:



The 11.5 pound field ready rifle, er, uh, I mean shotgun. This is portable and handy, and can dish out enough recoil to satisfy any adult, I am sure. 8 year-olds be careful.
Kids, don't try this at home!

BTW, the NEF ejector was popping those hulls out just fine.

When really stout loads are used, if the brass sticks, a knockout-ramrod will do.
I have not as yet done any polishing to the chamber after the hand reaming:

3/4" wooden dowel in a drill with what grit emery cloth on the dowel?
I need another gunsmithing lesson. Eh, Rob?

And a further BTW, Rob,
What stocks are on your pair of H&R/NEF Ultra Slugs?
I will be looking at a thumbhole version for the next one.
It may handle recoil better, but I am still concerned that it may not be as strong as the pistol grip version above.

A synthetic thumbhole that could be filled with epoxy and lead, like on the Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag, would be good on an H&R/NEF Ultra Slug.
I would trust that more than a laminate thumbhole.

ya'll are killing me.. keep up the good work!

Who's gonna be the first Bubba to kill an elephant with a Handi-Rifle...???

hell, i'll setup a smash with
.666
.600
.550
.510

who wants to play?

Rip...Not to nose into this thread, but I've used 320 and 400 wet/dry and the same with the 1" wide strips you can get on several industrial supply housed...I get a lot of my shop supplies from KBC Tools and J&L industrial and most auto parts places have the same stuff.

I bob it up and down or in and out like polishing a cylinder in an engine block. Keep it moving...down slightly over half way, back up, down all the way, back up slightly over half way, down all the way, up all the way and repeat. You basically want a cross hatch pattern with the scratches at a 45° angle. Plenty of oil, not too fast with the pumps or the drill speed...gentle and steady and not for very long. If it is polished too well it will actually cas the cases to stick faster. I would shoot it as is until you do get cases sticking then maybe do the polishing.

Rob will give you a better lesson tho' I'm sure.

Would you consider doing a chamber for me???

I would split the cost of the reamer with you and pay for the return shipping...save me buying one. I have a NEF on order but don't know when it will get here other than sometime in Dec.

Where do you get the Darwin slugs from?

Thanks

FOOBAR,
Thanks for the useful pointers.
I cannot do work gunsmithing work for others.
I am forbidden by my Hippocratic oath, "First do no harm ..." and my license is for cutting on people, not guns.

Surely some enterprising "FFL LICENSED" smith will fork over the $169 for a reamer from Dave Kiff and take in some business:

www.pacifictoolandgauge.com

The mould for the slugs is from Brooks Tru-Bore:

www.brooksmoulds.com

This stuff is hobby fun for me and I am not participating in anyone else's madness.

Blame Rob and Ed for all of this!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hell, i'll setup a smash with
.666
.600
.550
.510

who wants to play?

What's your idea there El Jeffe...??

eland or bison.. what's your pleasure sir?

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Who's gonna be the first Bubba to kill an elephant with a Handi-Rifle...???

That would make a HELL of an article for the gun mags.

Thanks Rip...I understand...I was just going cheapo...I can order the reamer from Dave, I order all my reamers from him if I can't find a rental.

Thanks for the URL on the slug...I've been tearing up the 'net trying to find where the Darwins came from...all I got was "stuff" on evolution.

Now I gotta find someone who will cast the bullets for me...I never got into bullet casting as I always knew someone that would do it for me...or turn loose a little more money...ouch...my ancestors are really twisting the blade.

I think an "Express" bullet of Darwin intelligent design of .270 SD weighing 1000 grains would be cool and most useful for the plastic cases.

RIP- I ordered the same pistol grip stock you have. I'm left handed and so can't use the thumb hole stock.
BTW- I of course have the original 12GaFH reamer and can ream out NEF barrels for those who want it done. I am not currently a licensed gunsmith so cant receive complete guns. However if you remove the barrel and send her over, no trouble to perform the surgery.
I may also sell completed guns through a local FFL complete in 12 GaFH with a INTERNAL MUZZEL BRAKE, cases, 1085 gr Brass darwins and a set of loading Dies. PM me if interested.-Rob

A couple of questions...

Rip...was there some reason you stopped at 3.85" instead of going out to 3.95" and using a full length 50 BMG case??? I ran through most of the last 10 pages and didn't see any specific reason unless I missed it, and I doubt the extra 0.100" would do much except require an additional hard card or maybe make more room for a 1500-1600 gr slug.

Rob...is your reamer the 3.85" or the 3.5" 12GAFH and is that offer for anyone??? What would you charge? I would wait until after the first of the year anyway.

By the by...I'lived in Pahrump for almost 20 years and worked a few times, on and off, out at the "rest site". Got tired of the wind blowing me off my bench, the heat frying my brain, local politics, and no water...and moved to Oregon in '99. All the people moving in from the cities squalled about my "free ranging' chickens running out in the road, and when the first stop light hit town...I was headed out. I still love the desert tho".

Any one thinking or working on a "pointy" slug similar to James Gates 600 gr Tusker only heavier or maybe a multi-slug load like his Tri-balls with a spreader to open up the pattern a bit out to about 50 yd?

I'm thinking something in the 1000 gr area also, although for the expected ranges, anything from 1000 gr up...pointy doesn't really matter and may be counterproductive.

I should never have read the first post about the 12 GAFH...I have way too many guns to keep hot now and this link only caused me to buy 3 more shotguns plus a rifled barrel.

Thanks for any information.

Heh... I am sure a few here would love a new "Shotgun" for Christmas. That is a great offer Rob. Every gunsafe needs a good shotgun

Regarding an express weight 1000 grain lead beer keg darwin... if all the length proportions were shrunk by 30% that would be about 1000 grains right? What would that not kill with authority?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

FOOBAR- Yes- The offer is for anyone as long as they send a barrel only. Reaming would be $75+ S&H out to 3.85 and if you want a Internal brake $100. I'm doing my own gun in the next few week and will post pics. The internal brake is a really good idea and will be pretty effective given the pressure curve of this round.
When you fireform a .50BMG case they shrink to 3.85 thats why that length is given.
RIP- Sorry forgot to say use 400 grit emery cloth glued to the dowel. Dont worry its impossible to get it wrong. Just polish a bit to take the sheen off the chamber and neck.-Rob

Thanks Rob...I will be watching your progress. I guessed there was something like the shrinkage thing happening or maybe allowing for uniformity in variation in case lenths, or just the way an optimized load and the "innerds" worked out.

Glad you have a brake in mind also as I was waiting for the NEF to arrive to see if there was enough meat on the end to add a brake of my own design(copied of course). The brake on the Mossy 500 rifled barrel works great...might be the reason my 730 gr Terminator loads were about 100 f/s too slow and Bill G's Terminators didn't quite reach the calculated expectations. Still plenty enough to cause a big critter to change his mind.

True, true Boom Stick. Pretty much ANY 12ga sized slug at stiff velocities will do the trick, although some of them will do it better. I haven't forgotten the first deer I pranged with a 12 ga and a Rem "punkin ball". At about 20 yards it knocked a medium sized doe comnpletely over and she ended up back on her belly all four legs spread out and never even quivered. I had a broken right hand, in a cast and couldn't hold the grip and the shotgun slapped a big knot on my cheek. Completely shattered the shoulder and ruined all the meat. I rode the heat for the waste and half a face black, until redeeming myself the next year.

Somewhere along the bullet weight/powder weght/velocity line there is an optimum point where they all come together to give the highest efficiency, least amount of recoil and most energy per unit of powder and bullet weight. I'm working to find that line now.

Maybe some one has already done this and would save me all that work if they posted the information in a form my little gray cells could understand.

I'm also bothering the heck out of the custom mould makers for a slug mould and their input and drawing up some of my own slug designs.

It's always hurry up and wait...not matter what I do.

ALL- Here are my latest calculations using Quick load for the 12GaFH 3.85 inch case for the NEF Ultra Slug Rifle(24 inch barrel) with 1085 gr Brass Darwins.
220 gr H50BMG(97%) case capacity
1085 gr Brass Darwin
1525 fps
21425 PSI
5,610 Ft-lbs MUZZEL ENERGY
Quick load tends to overestimate pressures on these big cases, but I reviewed my records and my .700RLG on the .50BMG case with 225 gr of H50BMG and a 1000gr bullet went 1550fps on my chrono and my records say recoil was extremely light.
This load should fit perfectly in my design envelope for the NEF(i.e. NMT 26KPSI).
With 5600 ft-lbs and a .729 hole this should be a helacious slayer of big critters as is.
assuming the gun survives this testing, the next move is to faster powder or until my shoulder cant take it anymore. A big advantage of the .50BMG case is its primer which I know will light off this much powder reliably.
What do you guys think?-Rob

If you want be to help fire some of the heavy loads when you are in Cali I am in your neck of the woods a lot. I will be doing my push ups to get ready

quote:

I will be doing my push ups to get ready

Do mine for me will ya..?? I'm too old to do them anymore...gotta save my strength for lifting...(beer)

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Do mine for me will ya..?? I'm too old to do them anymore...gotta save my strength for lifting...(beer)

No hooch? Smaller glasses = less effort. You'll feel just as good with less.

Kind of the "Less is more" mantra.

My cases also when expanded and fireformed
went back to 3.85"..The NEF will work great
with those loads although the pressure won't be
21k. You'll get 21 k going a couple of powders up
the speedscale.I think 1000 grainers are good for NEF
as it is harder to add weight than to a bolt action
or a pump. But The NEF is strong for the dollar and
has an old timey charm to it.

I finally got a long barrel rigged on my
NEF, so that my testing matches factory testing and
lab testing.An add on job. Will post pics soon.
As far as 16ga goes there is no rifled bbls on any 16 ga
guns from factorys, so I will test first one in a medium
barrel break action smoothbore I got ahold of to test using
16ga Lightfield and Foster slugs in the 16GA FH 3.5" case.
I am reaming the chamber to 3.5" from 3", adding pad and weight.
I adapted case with bushing to shotgun primer. A few others
havegotten the long chamber 20 gauge 3.5" guns, got brass cases
from RMC, so maybe a few will do same with 16ga. Ed.

Ed- Will the NEF light off .50BMG primers Ok? or do I need to mod the spring?
Boomstick- looks like development will be in NV. Virgin Amereica flights are just $65. Happy to let you have a go!Rob

Great info guys! Thanks!

Yes, indeed, will the NEF adequately dent a CCI#35 primer without modification?

I do have one 12GaFH case courtesy of Ed.
I would have to un-dummy it by removing the Darwin and prime it to try ... but surely Ed will have that info for us shortly.