Testing 715gr jacketed hollowpoint from RG Henson in Savage 210.
With 30 inch barrel, long brass 3.85" case, big primer.
Slightly hairy load 290gr RL22--2700 fps. Shot moderate load
of 300gr W-860 -- 2400 fps for 3 shot group of 3" at 50
yards with my bad eyes and peep sights. They shoot nice, they go
into target straight.. Other nice thing the price from RG,
for customers getting in on his first run, $1.25 plus shipping.
That is less than half of what other big bore jkt bullets cost.
Call him for some great slugs. They are great like
the Dixie slugs. Ed

Ed,
I will make you some 1400-grain lead slugs so you can keep me from blowing myself up.

I am wondering how much the Savage Slug Warrior will weigh when the hollow plastic stock is completely filled in every nook and cranny with epoxy and lead shot.

Can you give us RG Henson's phone number again so I don't go blind searching for it in this thread?
I want to get in on some of the flyweight jacketed bullets too.

RGs number 770-366-4846..
You should be able to add 5 lbs plus
heavy barrel get up to 20 lbs.Ed

quote:

Testing 715gr jacketed hollowpoint from RG Henson in Savage 210.
With 30 inch barrel, long brass 3.85" case, big primer.
Slightly hairy load 290gr RL22--2700 fps. Shot moderate load
of 300gr W-860 -- 2400 fps for 3 shot group of 3" at 50
yards with my bad eyes and peep sights.

Ed, are these tests using the aluminum dart-stabilized carriers yet?

Rob, have you fired any more 12GaFH aluminum carrier dart stabilized rounds yet? Its been two weeks since your N=1 single-round report.

Time flies when you are having fun...

Nope- Been too busy with other machining projects and some consulting. Probably wont have more data for two weeks or so.-Rob

Ed,
I called Ronald G. Henson at 770-366-4846.
Business is "Bullett's Bullets" and email is
bullett33(at)hotmail.com

Bullett's Bullets
893 Griffin Road NW
Cartersville, GA 30120

Did I get any of that wrong? Musn't forget the two-tee spelling in the first "Bulletts" but is there an apostrophe, as in "Bullett's Bullets?"?

RG was friendly and helpful on the phone.

Sounds like I will be starting with .729-caliber JHP 715-grainers.

That one can be used in any 12Ga slug gun. Ought to be a market that will not dry up as long as we can still shoot jacketed lead.

That is the guy, and you will like the slugs.
A lot of shotgun only guys love sabots with their
lighter bullets but hate the prices which are sky high.
So I tell them whether plastic or brass cases, to reload
and use Dixie's or RG's slugs. Can't get just slugs at
Dixie slugs in FL all the time, so RG will have a bunch
of business I'm sure. And the hollowbase jacketed for
smoothbores I showed above will sell good too. ...Also
guys needing 700cal 825gr and 1000gr, or heavier you can
get them ar Copperhead Custom.I just got a bunch of them
also.He's in AZ-His jkt are as good as Martin's...
His # 1-480-983-3202..Ed

Ed- Do you think we can get a 1000gr Aluminum carrier bullet to 2100fps at a low enough pressure to use a 3 or 3.5 inch 12GaFH case? What load would you use?
This might be the answer to the current over .50 cal airlines/TSA problem. So far no one is refusing to carry 12Ga ammo of any sort. I will start engraving 12GaFH SHOTGUN on all my rims from now on. No environmentally unsafe lead in my guns and no weapons of war calibers. I'm so Green these days its pathetic!-Rob

Rob- Maybe only need 12ga plus the length on cases,
but the 12 GA FH Shotgun is a nice touch.
On my long case barrels I have 12 GA 3 3/4 stamped.
We should be able to get 2100 with a 3.5" case.With
about 250gr of RL22. Even in my Savage which I keep to lower
pressures than your Borchardt. When they get here I have
different length cases to check them in.Ed

since you already have the carrier design for the .500" tungsten carbide insert why not use 500 S&W bullets???

with bullets ranging in weight from 275 grain XPB's to 700 grain Ranger Ricks thar be a plethera of options and not too expensive.

Maybe put a deep enough hole and load them backwards in the carrier for the same length every time.

A 2" aerodynamic boat tail carrier with a pick a bullet nose.

If the carrier is made of say brass and weighs 500 grains you could range from 775 to 1200 grains.

heat, stuff, cool, load and boom

Boomstick- Yes with the hollow base aluminum carriers it is no issue to push in any .500 bullet you want including a chunk of Tungsten carbide. They are actually way easier to make than the nose foreward versions and definately have a wow factor associated. I am really giving some thoughts to revitalizing the 12 Bore concept with a custom bolt action designed specifically for the 12 GaFH 3 or 3.5 inch case. It will still shoot 2 3/4 shot shells for global legality but is capable of a 1000 gr bullet at 2100fps. I'm thinking of a paradox type design, smoothbore for 16 inches, then a screw on rifled section for 6 -10 inches. The 16 inches of freebore will radically reduce pressures just as the paradox guns did and the rifled section will improve long range accuracy. That of course may not be important if the dart stabilization approach works as well as we believe it will.-Rob

Can you write the program for a 5 axis CNC? I know someone who might be getting one.

It wont need 5 axis CNC 3 axis is more than sufficient. The action will probably require a EDM though. Next machine in my future.-Rob

All I want for Christmas is a Farquharson action big enough to handle the 12 Gauge.

Where have all the monster falling blocks gone?

The Darwin Slug mould was shipped today by Brooks Tru-Bore.

A tip from Steve Brooks was to let the slug cool for 20 seconds after the pour before opening the mould. A lot of lead, a lot of heat.

1400-plus-grain slugs should be a fine natural selector.

Not enough has been done with heavy projectiles in the 12GaFH as yet.

Monster falling blocks cost a lot.I know
from trying to build one. A lot of time
and aggravation.


Lookee what another santa sent me.
Comparing to BMG case on the left, is
a straight BMG case on the right, and it
CAME FROM THE MANUFACTURER THAT WAY.

It is primer cartridge for large guns and howitzers.
It is used in those guns/cannons that have powder in big bags.
It is filled with fast powder and inserted into cannon breech and
when fired sets off the larger charge. On some cannon breeches
they have an automatic feed for these with a huge 40 round
drum magazine. This on is marked IVI 89 C67. IVI is Canadian.
On these breeches it is held by collet fingers for head space
and for ejection. Other mfgs made them also.

Ok, there are many thousands more of these out there than the
PROP cases I showed before. We need to find few barrels of these
and have Rob, etal, put on rims...no annealing..no fireforming..no expanding,
just slight resizing to 12GA FH. Please help if you know where there
are some. They would save so much work and time..And even though fired
the bases are perfectly straight, another plus, not cockeyed like
mg surplus brass....Ed

Wonder where that stuff is? It sure would be great to have.-Rob

Is there any way to load some of these 1000 grain 12GaFH slugs/bullets in a shell or case and use them in a rifled Remington 870 without blowing up my gun? I would be plenty satisfied to get 1100-1200 fps out of a 1000 gr slug in my quick handling 8-shot Remmy870!!! As good as the 730 gr Dixie Terminator works with its low sd I know a longer, heavier slug would be even better.

Can a 1000 grainer be loaded into a functional shell to work in an 870 Remington and similar slug guns and acheive 1100-1200 fps safely?

srshooter,
Have you thought of swapping one of your Remington 870 pumps for a Mossberg 835 pump?
You can buy a very reasonably priced rifled-bore slug barrel for the 835 that is already 3.5" 12 gauge from the factory. This Mossberg slug barrel has a heavier shank than the Remington barrels, which only seem to come as 3" chambering.

Gee! I never owned a Savage or a Mossberg before this thread. Now I are a Mossberg savage.

Will drill out some +1400-grain Darwin slugs to get them down to 1000 grains and let you know how the natural selection process works.

I am not really striving to win The Darwin Award.

The heaviest I've done in plastic case with NEF
is 870gr hardened slug that Greg Sappinton
made, but you'd cut back load in your lighter
barrel 870. His 870gr slug is fairly streamlined
like the 600gr Dixie. It would be better than
a blunt 1000gr. If your not hunting real thick
skinned game(Rhino,etc) use the 600 gr Dixie. Just as good
the 715gr Jacketed from RG shown above,.In fact right
now it is easier to get jkt slugs than Dixies, as
Dixie is so busy filling orders for loaded rounds. It's
real hard to keep loads below plastic case shotgun
limits with real heavy slugs.You end up with slugs
so slow they have terrible trajectories. Which is why Rob
had original idea to use stronger brass cases for heavier
slug loads. In stronger guns.Ed

Where do they train field artillary units?

Maybe a junk dealer in that area could save us some from his brass junk metal.

I'm thinking that a 3" brass case loaded out to 3.5 inches with a very large meplat copper or brass bullet crimped at the case mouth might well exceed 1600fps and still feed through a pump. The 1000gr brass bullets I have are pretty stubby guys. Wonder if a Mossberg 835 could take 35Kpsi? Ed what do you think? You have done way more work in this pressure range than I have. Next week I'm going to make some 12GaFH shorts in 3" and 3.5 inch lengths. Maybe its time to get the Oehler strain guage out on the Encore and see what pressures it takes to deliver certain velocities. hey, I'm at almost 4000 posts about 1/4 of RIP's. even though I've been here almost a year longer.-Rob

An 835 with heavy barrel like NEF could
do 25,000 with brass case I think and still
extract ok I think.Using one of our bmg based
cases. I don't know what would have to be done
to firing mechanism.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I'm thinking that a 3" brass case loaded out to 3.5 inches with a very large meplat copper or brass bullet crimped at the case mouth might well exceed 1600fps and still feed through a pump. The 1000gr brass bullets I have are pretty stubby guys. Wonder if a Mossberg 835 could take 35Kpsi? Ed what do you think? You have done way more work in this pressure range than I have. Next week I'm going to make some 12GaFH shorts in 3" and 3.5 inch lengths. Maybe its time to get the Oehler strain guage out on the Encore and see what pressures it takes to deliver certain velocities. hey, I'm at almost 4000 posts about 1/4 of RIP's. even though I've been here almost a year longer.-Rob

Rob,
Now you are doing R&D for my 3" Long-Nose "Hellboy": 12GaFromPurgatory.
Thanks!

Also helping me rack up the post count.
Sad as that may be, thanks anyway.

Yeah, it's funny that Remington doesn't offer 3.5" slug barrels for the 870 pump. My Rem 870 is a 3.5" Super Magnum model that came with a 28" shot barrel and I ordered a rifled slug barrel for it. It shoots so good with slugs though, that I just left the slug barrel on it and got a mag extension for some rapid fire shooting fun! I really like the Dixie 730 grainers in it but they are quite stubby!

The only mossberg I have is the model 500 with the defender type package...3" only!

If a Mossberg 835 would make a real difference, and it sounds that way, they are definately plentiful and very affordable.

Did you say 1600 fps with a 1000 grainer? That would be some 12 GaFHellacious fun in a quick shootin' pump!!!!

I need to read that again!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I'm thinking that a 3" brass case loaded out to 3.5 inches with a very large meplat copper or brass bullet crimped at the case mouth might well exceed 1600fps and still feed through a pump. The 1000gr brass bullets I have are pretty stubby guys. Wonder if a Mossberg 835 could take 35Kpsi? Ed what do you think? You have done way more work in this pressure range than I have. Next week I'm going to make some 12GaFH shorts in 3" and 3.5 inch lengths. Maybe its time to get the Oehler strain guage out on the Encore and see what pressures it takes to deliver certain velocities. hey, I'm at almost 4000 posts about 1/4 of RIP's. even though I've been here almost a year longer.-Rob

Yep, I read right! DAMN Rob! That would be AWESOME! Can you imagine firing off 6 or 7 of those in rapid succession into......ANYTHING! COMPLETE DESTRUCTION!!!!!

Sometimes I kinda forget who I'm talking to. I'm sure you don't have to imagine anything, gunwise at least. But I'm sure you get my point. It'd be lotsa fun for sure.

You guys are gonna kill me with my own guns! If I get a .500 A2, a .600 OK, and a 12 GaFH (a small variation at least with the 835) all in one year, my right shoulder will be pounded into burger! All in good fun

You shoulder will just hurt. You will have a huge grin on your face but your wallet will suffer mightily! Dont worry though after Obama gets in you wont have any money left anyway.-Rob

I just finished writing some pgrms to engrave 12Ga SHOTGUN on each of the screw on rims that I will use for the 2 3/4" 3", 3.5" and 3.8" brass cases. Once my FFL is approved, I will make these available as well as a assortment of 12Ga brass and copper bullets with weights from 700-1000grs.
LETS REVIVE THE GLORY DAYS OF THE 12 BORE!
Just remember when OBAMA's finished its all your gonna have!-Rob

Great news!
Sign me up as a charter member of "12 Gauge Shotgun Part of the Month Club" at Nohbohzo, LLC of Nevada!

I think I will be needing some of those beauties...

Great work Rob.

http://www.iacshotguns.com/87w.html

I think we might need a stubbie 12gfh for the 1887 lever shotgun.

12 GFH 2.25" oal 2.75" shooting 1000 grains @ ???

That should be good for any North American game

You want em I'll make em! I do think though that we are going to have to find something that will take 35KPSI in order to get enough velocity. This may start to sound like the Buffalo Bore 12 GaFH lineup of 12 Bore cartridges.
I have to say there is something appealing about a SPAS12 chucking 1000gr 12BORE Dart stabilized slugs at ol T-Rex/velociraptors.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
You shoulder will just hurt. You will have a huge grin on your face but your wallet will suffer mightily! Dont worry though after Obama gets in you wont have any money left anyway.-Rob

I hope like hell that Obama doesn't get elected but it seems very likely. I'll at least have a clear conscience on election day as I cast my vote for McCain. I do wish he'd chosen a VP with more experience......but who knows.....she's popular in Alaska.....and is much nicer to look at than Biden!

Hurt my wallet you say? I thought a semi-12GaFH on an 835 would be about as low pricd as one could get in a super-big-bore fun gun!?!?....... Besides..maybe an H&R Ultra Slug!?!? Why and what is so expensive about a Mossberg 835 model?

Just saying that in aggregate you be spending some money this year on your new big bore habit. It is addicting and I'm a great Pusher man! Think of it this way if you dont buy guns youll just be sending it in for taxes. Thats the Obama plan!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Just saying that in aggregate you be spending some money this year on your new big bore habit. It is addicting and I'm a great Pusher man! Think of it this way if you dont buy guns youll just be sending it in for taxes. Thats the Obama plan!-Rob

TRUE ENOUGH!

www.mossberg.com

The 835 Ulti-Mags use smoothbore barrels that are overbored to 10 gauge bore dimensions.

The slug barrels for the 835's are beefier externally than other factory 12 gauge pump slug guns out there. There is about a 4" run of cylindrical shank/Knoxform of 1.185" diameter before the slug barrel tapers. Final muzzle diameter is about 0.935".

The Savage 210F Slug Warrior has a 1.115" shank that straight tapers to a 0.915" muzzle. Not as stout.

The NEF/H&R Ultra Slug is 1.205" at the breech shank and stays that way on out to about 17", then tapers over the last 7" to about 1.070" at the 24" muzzle diameter. Stout.

The Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag has porting at about the 20.5" to 21.5" part of the barrel (eight little circular ports, two rows of four holes (~7/64" diameter) on each side of the barrel (16 ports total number) at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, ~3" from the muzzle, for a little bit of recoil and muzzle jump reduction.



The 535 Series barrels are similar but do not have the porting, though they also come with 3.5" chamber and fully rifled bore, and both the 835 and 535 series are available as satin blue, matte, and various camo patterns, and either fiber optic open sights or scope cantilevers. Both 835 and 535 guns are also drilled and tapped on the receiver for scope mount base too:





The thumbhole stocks come as camo or black. One could take the pad off and fill the stock with lead shot and seal with epoxy. You then could still remove the stock for replacement by access to the stock bolt through the thumbhole. Ed Hubel has finally converted me to thumhole stock. The first I have ever owned.









"Tactical Turkey Series"

One of these might do for a Hellboy repeater with 3" brass and 3.5" COL.
Mossberg makes a bolt action slug gun too.

I am planning four 12 gauge slug shooters from hell with:
Slug Warrior
Ultra Slug
Ulti-Mag
Custom Howitzer

I could use any brass available from 2.5" to 3.85" eventually.

The Brooks' *TRU-BORE* mould and the slugs.

Steve Brooks cast these and left one cold in the mould for me to break open. Nice touch. That is why one of the sprue marks is a little ragged on the one I dumped at room temperature.

Therefore the ragged sprue slug weighed only 1433 grains. The one Steve dropped hot weighed 1438 grains.
Average of the two is 1435.5 in 30:1 lead/tin.

Nominal weight of the Darwin Slug is hereby declared to be 1438 grains in 30:1 Alloy, as cast by the mould maker.

Diameter was .7315".

SD = .3839

Varying the alloy will vary all the numbers.
Hope to cast some in Linotype and 99:1 lead/tin and see what weights and diameters those give.
Will look into .729" and .730" sizing dies from Lee and Nohbohzo.



Potential 12GaFH fodder shown, a plastic 3.5" shell containing 2.25 ounce shot load, for perspective, and a couple of 3.28 ounce slugs:

Here is a picture of RG's jacketed 715gr slugs in various
loads.First are 2.75" and 3" factory foster slugs\ for
comparison. 3rd is jkt HP in 3.5" plastic case, 4th in a
3" brass RMC case. 5th in a 3.5" brass case with small
primer, 6th in our long brass 3.85" case, big primer.
Top hairy load in long case in Savage, 2900..Ed

Ed,
So, the R.G. Henson JHP (I have some 0f those beauties on order) will do 2900 fps.

My slug is twice as heavy but I only want it to go 1/2 that fast: 1450 fps

KE=(1/2)MV*2 says that my 2M slug at 1V will develop only 1/2 the kinetic energy of your "hairy" load of 1M at 2V.

Hopefully the pressure will be less with my 1400-grainer at 1400 fps.

How many do you want when I get them ready? I owe you.

RIP-- A dozen slugs will be enough for
tests to get right load.Ed.