David,
we are on the same page, though I had assumed the winmag was shooting.. so, yeah, you are basically at a wash, as the stocks cost the same, the gunsmithing work costs the same, and the markx+safety cost is about the same as a ruger cost. All that being said, *I* would probably do the ruger, mkII, as i like that safety and the fact that it actually does have dual swaure bridges , easy release scope mounts, and the scopes basically return to zero, at no additional cost!

I was shooting my 470 this morning.. its shooting about an inch with 350gr barnes/turnbull at 100 yards! a bit less, actually.

McGowen barreled my 500 ar on a ruger, and Peyton's too. Rodney has his CZ sent off to be done in 500 AR too, and they are going to do everything there, I think! Pretty cool stuff, and the prices were good.

Since Pac-nor is basically not doing any IN HOUSE gunsmithing, and I asked their "out-of-house" gunsmith to do some work.. well, we'll leave it at he wasn't experienced with bigbores and didn't sound like he wanted to get more experienced.


Lonnie is a goood guy to talk to on the dies, as that's where I started with him, in like 2005 or 2004, about the 550 express stuff.

checkering - well, there's few problems that can't be solved ny the application of dollars, it jsut that checkering is so time consuming that you MIGHT get lucky and get what you paid for.

Jeff,

Do you know if McGowen will do the safety on the Mauser? If not I can send it to Ed LaPour of someone else if need be, but would be nice to get it all wrapped up in a package. Legwork and running here and yon are a PIA as I stay busy as hell most of the time. But I do what I have to. I just like simple.

I may even just send the stock to them and let them do the inletting and bedding work as well. I assume McGowen does the sight installs, as on your barrels? And the barrel recoil lub? Just little details I'm thinking about as I move along here. Course I've got time. I can't get all this moving at once right now. Gonna have to go slow as business sucks right now. Any part of the construction industry is a prett weak place to be right now.

Thanks again for all your help Jeff. And all these great cartridges. I can't wait to get started. What is it about getting the hell beat out of us when we pull the trigger, that is so addictive? The more I shoot the 416, the more I like the recoil. Maybe it's just the challenge to gain the self-control to learn to shoot the big 'uns. Whatever it is, I'm liking it.

Thanks again,

David

David,
I'll send you my cell number, its easier to answer alot of q's that way

I don't know if they will do stock work.

The safety install should be a no brainer

If you want, have them do the CZ "heavy" profile, whatever twist you want, from 1.5" stock .. Alternatively, The jeffe contour (cz heavy +.050 at the muzzle, 23") is a bit heavier than that, and might be a touch too heavy for a .458 or .470, BUT it would be easier to shoot.

This COULD include them doing the CZ rear sight base and recoil lug, as part of the package. I do suggest that.

as a barrel band sling swivel and a necg universal (i am leaning towards adjustable front sights TODAY) and a CZ 3 bladed rear (1 standing, 2 folding) you have nearly the perfect arangement.

If you like, though as you mentioned it, they could cut the rear base for the NECG adjustable rear sight .. that one is cool, because *I* shoot post n notch sights better than I do ball and V .. might just be me, but that's the way *I* like them...

I do suggest a gentry or dakota 3pos safety. Generally that can be installed and blued for just the cost of the lapour .. MY preference is for the dakota, as they tend to be more consistently timed, in my opinion.

if it was mine, I would choose the caliber, conisder the twist.. 12 works fine, 14 is good, 10 might be fast, might not, go 23" long, recessed crown, slightly heavier contour I did last time (#5 was okay, but its light for other people) and a good trigger (dayton? timney? bold?) marine tex bed it, GREY marine tex, as the white has different properties, xbolts, and a wrist pin.

we'll talk about some gunnies that can do the finish/checkering/etc for you
jeffe

quote:

The more I shoot the 416, the more I like the recoil.

David, repeat after me. "Hi, my name is David, I AM A RECOIL JUNKIE.

Keith

Keith, Good to hear from you my friend. I did try out some of your reduced 300 Roy loads and they work great. IMR 4064 has become a good friend. I'm running a little warmer than the load you gave me as the accuracy is there, but I'm loading up some at 64gr. next time out. If it's accurate it'll likely get the nod.

I'm not gonna go so far as to say RECOIL JUNKIE, but these big 'uns are just really cool guns. Punching big holes is a lot of fun. I don't have to have a spotting scope to see my hits on target at 100 yds like with the .22 stuff.

I gotta make it out to a big bore shoot. When's the next one? Or did ya'll just have one in the last couple weeks? I need to get there whatever the case.

Good to hear from you,

David

quote:

Or did ya'll just have one in the last couple weeks?

David, we had one last Sat., 2nd. But there will be others.

Keith

.470 AR dies are ordered. Now I got 6 months to get this rifle together. Gotta find a cheap Ruger, yeah right.

Lonnie said they are 30,000, yes, 30k normal, run of the mill die sets behind right now. The demand right now is overwhelming to say the least.

Oh well. I got a few pieces of 375 RUM brass and a box of 400gr. XTP's to stare at and fondle for the next few months. Maybe that'll keep me occupied.

David

Good on ya, David ..
let me know if your rifle finishes first, and I might have to loan you my dies

Gotta get it started before it'll get finished. I'm sure I'll be talking to you about the reamer as I assume McGowen doesn't have one.

Gotta find the donor then get on with it hopefully.

Ladies and Gentlemen

Per jeff's request, 470AR chronograph results from this weekend

22" Pac Nor barrel, RUM parent case

80gr H335 Woodleigh 500gr SP av 2170fps

80gr H335 500gr Barnes banded solid av 2176fps

83gr H335 Woodleigh 500gr SP av 2221fps

83gr H335 500gr Barnes banded solid av 2244fps

80gr H335 Hornady 500gr DGR solids
2150,2103,2118,2144 av 2128fps

83gr H335 Hornady 500gr DGR solids
2262,2269,2256,2253 av 2255

The usual reloading caveats apply
All loads, easy extraction and bolt lift
Plenty of radius left on the fired primers
Could easily go higher, but 2150-2250 is fine for me.
The more I fool around with my 470AR, the more I like it, it is a real powerhouse in a very handy, non-fussy case design.

Thanks jeff for mentoring me, now on to the 500AR

HT,

Thanks for the help. And the PM.

Couple questions. What action did you build on? What barrel profile? Weight? Balance?

I was thinking 5A to 6 at 22". Jeffe says CZ heavy contour, I think same as CZ 50's, at 23". I'd like to hear your choices and thoughts.

David

First Africa experience with the .458 AR (I think):

Guys,

Literally just got off the airplane from RSA. Took a "practical build" rifle in .458 AR built on a Parker-Hale commercial action. Has a 22" Douglas silhouette profile tube, Timney trigger, FN left side safety, and custom mounts for Leupold QRW rings. Is on a bedded Fajen's synthetic stock. Used a Zeiss Conquest 1.8-5.5x 38MC Scope.

Ammo was 425 gr Rhino solid shank, bonded core bullets on properly headstamped Quality Cartridge brass. Is 85.5 gr of H335 ignited by Fed 215s. Velocity chronoed at 2400 fps. Recoil is pretty mild.

My ammo arrived a day late, and futzed up the arrangements for a hunt, so we did something else the first day. At sight-in from a rest, the rifle shot a group 1 1/2" to the right but the rounds cut each other. Simple move to the center. Moved the impact point two inches up for shooting at longer ranges in the highveldt.

First shot was taken in a hellova hurry as we happened into an 11 1/2" Warthog at about 120 yards going away while looking at the track around a water hole ... was an opportunistic shot taken too fast and the shooter screwed up ... was about a 2 centimeters too far back and didn't cross to the offside should far enough forward. That two centimeters cost a 2 km trackup. My bad!

Second shot was taken on a Wildebeast on a spot and stalk hunt at about 60 yards. I shot what I could of the left front shoulder and it it just HAMMERED the beast. Dropped at the shot and never got up.

Third shot was taken on a HUGE Eland at 181 yards in the highveldt on a spot and stalk hunt. The Eland was moving slowly away and the shot was placed below the diaphragm crossing to the offside right shoulder. He startled at the impact, staggered a few yards to the right, then the left and dropped in his tracks. Turned out to be a double lung shot. The bullet did NOT exit the right shoulder. Wound track was over four feet long. Unfortunately, the projectile was not recovered. (I think a 500 gr bullet would have blown all the way through.)

Fourth shot was another case of operator error. We looked for Kudu all darned day long and finally found 4 across a gully at about 150 yards. We were slightly above the animals and they were going away. I tried to put a hit 6" below a line that would be flat along the line of the shoulder that be below the hump. BIG mistake ... should have tried to hit in the bottom third of the shoulder I think. But I was huffin' and puffin' and was losing the view of the target as he was moving away. The impact knocked the Kudu down but he got back up and went and went and went. We did not recover the kudu though we know he was hit. My BAD! (First one I have ever lost completely ... damned I hate that!!!)

Lessons leaned:

1) You gotta hit something that matters.

2) When you do, the .458 AR just HAMMERS game!!!

3) The Rhino bullet works fine.

4) I shoot fine ... but can't necessarily see the right place to select for the impact on animals going away. The shooting I could fix, the seeing isn't so easy.

The reaction of the locals to the .458 AR was VERY interesting. The PHs were ALL interested as can be. They LIKE the idea of a 458 Lott+ capability in a standard length action!!!!

Will post a Trip report with pics.

(Did have one shot kills on Impala, Reedbuck, and Bush Pig with the 9,3x62 as well. The story of the Bush Pig is almost unbelievable!)

Welcome back home, Mike, and THANKS for the report!

just tons of goodness!

Has anybody done up a .358 AR. How does it compare to a .358 Norma?

no, we didn't -- the drawings and plans were all made .. and then the case caparisons made, and nothing was gained by them... and the 375 ruger nailed shut anything smaller

mstarling congrats, that is awesome to be first.

Grafs has .510 570 DGS/DGX bullets in stock .. as well as hornady rigby brass -- placed my order this morning!

Michael,
I think i might have to start chopping that barrel back to see how short it can go and still make 2150

Jeffe

Which AR-458-470-500? Hell I say start chopping on all of them! I know if I can get 2150 with a 500 gr from the 458 B&M in 18 inches I know damn well you can maintain 2150 + in the 458 AR in 18 inches fairly easy! The only issue I see is that the AR has more powder capacity, might be some muzzle blast with some powders?

Start chopping!

Michael

Hi jeffe!
I've been reading the wole thread again, because I was looking for picks of the final rounds. Would it be an idea to put some good pics in the first posting on this thread? So one did not have to look through the whole thing?
Just an idea!
Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
Hi jeffe!
I've been reading the wole thread again, because I was looking for picks of the final rounds. Would it be an idea to put some good pics in the first posting on this thread? So one did not have to look through the whole thing?
Just an idea!

Cheers!

Bent here's one for you with the 458 AccRel and the 500AccRel, flanked by the 416 Taylor and the 375 H&H

Actually a bit of AccRel porn would really be nice right now.........photos of the guns around the world and the ammo

go for it all of you AccRel owners.

great suggestion Bent ..

does anyone mind if I pull their, and my, pictures together and host a copy on my website? I'll update the first post with pics and drawings

MM -- (hey, that's easier for me not to mistype)
it is to be the 458, at this point, as I won't cry too bad over that parker hale barrel.. and I am going to get another barrel for that one

wow, it would be NICE if adams and bennet made a .475 and .510 barrel!

quote:

MM -- (hey, that's easier for me not to mistype)
it is to be the 458, at this point, as I won't cry too bad over that parker hale barrel.. and I am going to get another barrel for that one

Jeffe-MM is good with me. Since you are getting another barrel anyway I see no downside to start chopping! I have high confidence that you won't have any issues down to 18-20. Powder and muzzle blast might be an issue?? But I am sure you might end up with a short AR in the long haul!

MM

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
does anyone mind if I pull their, and my, pictures together and host a copy on my website? I'll update the first post with pics and drawings

Go for it Jeffe, be good to see them all together, be sorta like a family portrait .

Paz

That 500AR cartridge is just dead sexy. That may be the next step behind the 470AR, for me anyway. I'm really diggin' that round.

David

Forming 500 AR from 416 Rigby - though commerical headstamped brass is available

416 Rigby, Shortened and Die-formed, Fireform, loaded. to the right, 416 Taylor and 375HH

I have shot the 500 AR on the Ruger MKII and it is one fun big bore package.
Also them 510 woodleighs are a grenade to a pigs head...
I think the 500 AR on a stainless canoe paddle Ruger would be a great all go no show big bore.

Bent,
I put more specifications, loads, and pictures on the first page, the first two posts.

Boomie
Those where 570gr woodlieghs, designed for 1900 FPS impact .. NOT 2200

Yea, nice!

I would like a pic of the four of them together, and one with the .416 compared to the other .416s, same with the .458, .470 and .500.

You need to take those pics anyway, both for us and your site!

Thanks - I do need to do that

Here is one from when Jeffe built my .416 AR.

that's such a cool picture ..
i just loaded 40 rounds of 500 AR for load dev, from 94 to 100gr of h335 with the 570gr DGS and DGX and some old lionload bullets I had laying around

Kinda cool .. i took the powder dispenser off my hornady progressive, and used my digital scale and dispenser that Rusty gave me, (and I sent back for a rebuild/speedup) .. worked out really nice. though I did spend "awhile" waiting on my powder .. sure, i could have used the hornady thrower.. but I wanted each one measured and within .1gr total !

jeffe

OK, you have all convinced me! I have a nice, new Ruger 77 Hawkeye that would like to grow up and become a new member of the AR family. Now for the question: Mr. Burns is not accepting new work (I am certain you have all kept him quite busy--and that is a good thing!), and McGowan (Sp.) is the go-to for the 500AR (not yet, not yet)...so where to I go for a gunsmith who has experience with Rugers AND the AR family? Any advice and direction in this quest will be most helpful and greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, Arthur

Howdy Arthur!
I can send the reamers and headspace gauges to mcgowen quickly, or perhaps 3 rivers, the guys that do all the CZ custom work. Heck, though I haven't spoken to them about it, even to AHR .. I am abolutely certain jim kobe could do the job for you, and john farmer, and a number of other smiths on the forum.

Its inherently uncomplex to take a mag boltfaced ruger to a 416, 458, or 470 AR .. Having a recoil lug on the barrel is a great, i my opinion required, thing to do. A good bedding, crossbolting, and a wrist pin are key to the longivity of the stock.

Hornady can make you great looking dies! Call and order them, as that will probably be the longer (longest?) turnaround item

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
(snip)
Heck, though I haven't spoken to them about it, even to AHR .. I am abolutely certain jim kobe could do the job for you, and john farmer, and a number of other smiths on the forum.

Its inherently uncomplex to take a mag boltfaced ruger to a 416, 458, or 470 AR .. Having a recoil lug on the barrel is a great, i my opinion required, thing to do. A good bedding, crossbolting, and a wrist pin are key to the longivity of the stock.

jeffe

Could the smiths on the forum who can turn around a Ruger M2 Magnum in any of the AR calibers within the next 3-6 months (per Jeffe's specs above) please post contact info. My smith is at least a year out.

Thanks

Might also post in gunsmithing .. I can supply the reamer, gages, and dummies.. the 416, 458, and 470 are easy to do with a ruger.. the 500 requires more feeding!

Interested
Contact Jim Kobe for that .. I have chatted with him, and he's willing

Gentlemen

Those of you with the 500AR (AccRel)on a Ruger M77 action......

Have you made any additional magazine modifications to fit the extra round ?

If so ...can you "spill the beans" or show us some pictures

I'm in the process of getting an engineer friend of mine to mill a new boxed floor plate that is about 3/8ths deeper, it shouldbe just what is needed, very similar to the gun RIP posted up recently re synthetic stocks

Should be as simple as, tap out the hing pin, attatch the old follower spring to the new boxed floor plate and put the hing pin back....well thats the plan anyway

regards
S&F

Make it out of mild steel or alum, and I'll buy a couple!