From yesterday: 80 gr IMR4895, 405gr remys, avg. 2140fps (6shots) from my 22" barrel. Here is my best 3 shot group at 102 yards with peep.

I also fired about a dozen rounds of 80gr IMR4895 with 350 hornady flat points but the light was bad and no chrono readings, it was pleasant to shoot and shot to a similar point as the 405's.

nice group
1.5" gross, from an AB barrel and peep sights, on ruger.. 1.1 moa? nice
good shooting!

i added this load to ammoguide.com, and i need the oal!!

switch to h335 and pickup 110-150fps


S&F/Con
sorry mates, i know it's killin ya, but happy christmas!

Oops....3.28"

added and archived

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


S&F/Con
sorry mates, i know it's killin ya, but happy christmas!

Merry Christmas to all, don't feel too bad Jeffe, guess what SANTA the postman dropped off at my shop this morning from Mansons' USA

Thats right the very first 458AR reamers and GO/NOGO gauges in Australia, and only took about 9 days delivery from US to Australia and that was in the Christmas rush

I'll send some pics, damn David Manson does a good job, reamer was in a little custom wooden box and gauges

regards
S&F

Outstanding Mates
it is just short weeks for your 458s!!'
Happy Christmas

S&F,
Excellent news ... umm ... you may also get an email regarding the 500AR ... seems this one has captured some interest locally!

jeffe,
The wait is absolutely killing me now ... I figured a 400gr at 2400fps is a 400gr at 2400fps ... Rigby is going out the door for the 458AR Also received a PM from another shooter requesting info for the 500AR, seems his mates are 416Taylor shooters and the next logical step up is seen as a 50cal, not a 458cal Its kind of interesting psychology.
Cheers...
Con

Well then, what a Happy Christmas present for me... MORE 500 ARs downunder.. well, you lot have the best advantage on cheap bullets for it.. and Bruce needs to make his rigby basic as tough as his new 404 basic... and, oh, while he's at it, make his 404 into SPEC rum basic..

Oh my, lemme know what we are going to do for dies, then, and if I need to release the 500 AR from manson

happy day!!'

Con,
that is becoming the tend, when a guy gets an ar or 2, and figures out that yeah, it really does perform, and there goes the rigby or winmag... well, a taylor is a rechamber away from easy high performance, as well as a winmag.

However, when the lad gets the pricing on the reamers and dies, he may opt to rent your 458 kit

jeffe

I made a "hydraulic case former" today... took my cobbled 500 AR dies, and then soldered the bottom of a shellholder closed, and then made a pistion out of brass..

filled the cases with water, stuck with a mallet.. a surprising number of times..

and took 416 rigby to near 500 AR ... expanded the case shoulder to .570, which is right... before you had a LITTLE shoulder..

then trimmed, ran through my 500 jeffe expander, and poof... 98% or so of the way done..

still has a ripple where the shoulder was, but rather than fireforming, triming, then shooting a cast, it's ONE trip, with some 535gr casts, just zing them out at 2200, and the cases are perfect..

quote:

stuck with a mallet.. a surprising number of times..

jeffe, get a bigger hammer.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:

quote:

stuck with a mallet.. a surprising number of times..

jeffe, get a bigger hammer.

Keith

I need shoo, thataway to bring his bullet testing maul!!

Norma is making rigby based standard action length rounds in 300, 338 and 375...

I guess that means the guns built for these would make great donor guns for the 500 AR and maybe a switch barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Norma is making rigby based standard action length rounds in 300, 338 and 375...

I guess that means the guns built for these would make great donor guns for the 500 AR and maybe a switch barrel.

Boomy ...
It's interesting indeed ... who will build these rifles??? Over here ... S&F hit the final mother-load of x40 Hornady 416Rigby cases the distributor had for his 500AR, plus a new run-out "old model" Ruger MkII. Once his 50cal PacNor arrives and the two 458cal barrels we ordered locally ... the AR's will definatly go Ka-BOOM south of the equator!!
Cheers...
Con

boys, i am stunned!!! can't wait to see smashed buffs and boars!

jeffe,
I just fear that S&F's adoption of the 500AR will set off an "arms race" between us. If his PacNor chambered/threaded barrel comes through with no problems ... and the guy making our "plinker" 458cal projectiles can make them ... a 550Express chambered barrel may have to make the trip over for fitting to an M98/M17 action.
Cheers...
Con

No Con 500 AR is as far as I'll go, but I do want a family of AR's.....eventually

416, 458, 470, 500

I'm going to sell my 416 Taylor, although I could just run a 416AR chamber die thru it. and buy some new 416 AR dies

regards
S&F

Con
sounds like a 550express in your future!

500 AR dies should ship next week!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
500 AR dies should ship next week!

YES!
Next stop is Pac-Nor. Jeff, please recomend a contour, I know what twist to get.

quote:

Originally posted by ShortandFat:
No Con 500 AR is as far as I'll go, but I do want a family of AR's.....eventually

416, 458, 470, 500

S&F,
Yeah ... I've considered the same but without the 500AR. I'm not 100% happy with the Capstick on the Rem700 action ... could rechamber/rethread that barrel for a Ruger action. Despite selling the 416Rigby ... I've kept all the projectiles ... but am looking currently at a Sprinter or MAB barrel on the M17 sporter in 416Taylor. That's if it doesn't become a second 458AR!!
But boy ... the 550Express is an easy way into the mega bores ... jacketed projectiles being the only issue. But I'd also be half tempted to get Cast Bullet Engineering to cut a paper-patch mould and shoot paper-patched lead.
Dont you just hate when you sell rifles and have cash in your pocket!!!
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Con
sounds like a 550express in your future!

Just think of the 550 Express as a "Texas 458"!

Guys,
Regarding the 550" projectiles ... no go yet. But if you boys were interested ... after the first 2000 are sold (AUD$2 each) ... they can come down to AUD 0.80c each depending on copper pricing. I've asked him whether he's interested in export potential.

I don't have the AUD$4000 required for his "start-up" price ... but he's listening as he may be doing a 50BMG projectile for which the equipment would then be adaptable to 0.550"

Like Boom Stick ... I may not be able to afford ... but I can agitate for!!!
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
[

YES!
Next stop is Pac-Nor. Jeff, please recomend a contour, I know what twist to get.

PT if it's any help to you I ordered a #6 barrel at 26 inches for the 500 ar, it will need to be cut back to about 24 inches, I thought this might be a bit light, but with express open sites added, a scope and mounts, a nice bit of heavy lumber underneth with crossbolts and bedding new limbsaver kickpad and a mag full of ammo it will come up heavy enough, but if you don't want to use a scope you might want to get something heavier.

I ordered the same size barrel for the 458 but it won't have the open sites and only has the original Hawkeye stock

regards
S&F

quote:

Originally posted by ShortandFat:

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:
[

YES!
Next stop is Pac-Nor. Jeff, please recomend a contour, I know what twist to get.

PT if it's any help to you I ordered a #6 barrel at 26 inches for the 500 ar, it will need to be cut back to about 24 inches, I thought this might be a bit light, but with express open sites added, a scope and mounts, a nice bit of heavy lumber underneth with crossbolts and bedding new limbsaver kickpad and a mag full of ammo it will come up heavy enough, but if you don't want to use a scope you might want to get something heavier.

I ordered the same size barrel for the 458 but it won't have the open sites and only has the original Hawkeye stock

regards
S&F

That is super helpful. Mine will be open sights, 22" and synthetic stock so I might go heavier than a #6 but it gives me a starting point to look at. It really needs to be 10-11 lbs or I don't think I will shoot it much.

My 458ar has a 22" A&B barrel not sure the contour but it is perfect. I bet I can find a contour that is similar from pacnor.

quote:

Originally posted by ptaylor:

That is super helpful. Mine will be open sights, 22" and synthetic stock so I might go heavier than a #6 but it gives me a starting point to look at. It really needs to be 10-11 lbs or I don't think I will shoot it much.

My 458ar has a 22" A&B barrel not sure the contour but it is perfect. I bet I can find a contour that is similar from pacnor.

PT - You got me thinking last night about my #6 profile and your 22 inch barrel and I quickly sent an Email thru to Penny at PACNOR to change the profile of my 500AR barrel order

She emailed me back this morning and said I was lucky I got the change thru on time so all was OK

I've now changed my order to a standard VARMITER SENDERO profile and will cut it back to a shorter length of 22 to 23 inches, I think it will balance better with a slightly shorter/fatter barrel

If you log onto PACNOR's web site and goto "BARREL CONTOURS" and go down to "VARMITER PALMA" profiles you'll see the one. Another good profile for the 500AR would be the "MEDIUM PALMA" profile


BTW What is the brand of PEEP sight you are using on you 458AR

Good Luck
S&F

New Egland Custom Guns "NECG" makes that peep. I love it. Thanks for the barrel help.

As a side note. Last weekend I worked up to 85gr of H335 behind a hornady 500 gr solid in my 458ar. No pressure signs in my gun and recoil was......out of this world, a friend of mine shot it and cut his finger open on the trigger guard!! I will try and chrono that load this weekend now that I've regained my senses.

LOL...

the palma is about correct, and that's sort of what we've been talking about... it is a HAIR too heavy for a .475, but probably right for a .510!

I've got a #6 on my 500 jeffe.. and its perfect, but i like a 9# 500!!


Peyton, 85gr is a SERIOUS load.. that's right up there at near 2400fps ... it was 2378 in my 23" barrel... add 15fps for dist to muzzle and the delay inherent to the 2 part chrony, and it's banging on 2400fps... that's 450 dak range!

Recoil being out of this world... well, that IS a light rifle

jeffe

my 470 WAS a heavy palma...

i think the 500 ar dies are shipping today!

How sweet it is!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Holy Cow Jeffe you must have some "pulling power " in the industry,

Now if it was me looking for 8 die sets to be made, they wouldn't have started yet

regards
S&F

Pull? Nah, man.. I just asked nice, the fella was willing to do the work, and I had the money to do. All in all, a darn good deal, product wanted, payment made, product made, good trade

jeffe

jeffe, Also received a PM from another shooter requesting info for the 500AR, seems his mates are 416Taylor shooters and the next logical step up is seen as a 50cal, not a 458cal Its kind of interesting psychology.
Cheers...
Con[/QUOTE].................................I think it is the logical step .......Heres a question ????? Which do you think will be a better killer , the 500AR or the 470 Mbogo ???? Or will they be within a second of each other ???????.............Has anyone tabulated how fast the 500 AR will push a 450 gr GS HV bullet from a 20 " barrel ....???

Gumboot,
You know I hunt with Dave, right? I think the 470 is the best all around bigbore, for a magnum length action. In fact, he handed me a 500 mbogo mockup in 2004? ,,,

The 500 AR will throw a 600gr at 2300+, and a 535 at 2400+... the mbogo will throw a 500gr at 2500+ .. which would be a better killer? at 200 yards, hards down, the mbogo .. and on paper, at any distance, it would have an MV advantage, but would it be made up by cross sectional? who knows, but at 20 yards, they will kill anything graveyard dead.

the ARs are designed to go into standard length actions, and my one contribution to Neal's fine 550 express. This solves the question with a slightly different condition ... I wanted to have major power in a 3.34/3.4" length action ...

now, there is a second advatage of the small cases, they will loose less velcoty (assuming you don't rework your loads) for shorter barrels than the rifles burning slower powders.

450gr gs custom from a 20" barrel? 2350-2400, i expect ... monster slayer

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
jeffe, Also received a PM from another shooter requesting info for the 500AR, seems his mates are 416Taylor shooters and the next logical step up is seen as a 50cal, not a 458cal Its kind of interesting psychology.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

.................................I think it is the logical step .......Heres a question ????? Which do you think will be a better killer , the 500AR or the 470 Mbogo ???? Or will they be within a second of each other ???????.............Has anyone tabulated how fast the 500 AR will push a 450 gr GS HV bullet from a 20 " barrel ....???

Actually Gumboot, truth be told,

If you gave me a 10 pound 458AR with a LER scope and an 8 pound 470 MBogo with a standard scope and the first time I pulled the trigger on the Mbogo it belted me senseless and cut me and the 458AR was a walk in the park to shoot.........

I can tell you the 458AR from then on would be the better killer in my hands every day of the week and twice on Sunday

But as you so "tatically" suggested, yes ON paper the Mbogo


A 20 inch barrel - OK that does change things

hang on, if the Mbogo blows a 3 foot flame out of a 20 inch barrel......

and the 500 AR only blows a 10 inch flame out of a 20 inch barrel......

thats makes the Mbogo very inefficient in a 20 inch barrel....right ? I recon a 470 Mbogo with a 20 inch barrel would be like building a big V8 chevy and pulling 2 spark plug leads off it......waisted powder everywhere

with the MBogo not being able to use it's grand case to its' full potential wouldn't that put them on a level playing field ?

So here we go again the "short and fat" efficient powder burn arguement

regards
S&F

talked with the die man ... heat treat is done! but they aren't shipped yet

Joe, dies and reamers go to pacnor next

Frank, do you want pac-nor to make yours, right there next to joes?

jeffe

Actually Gumboot, truth be told,

If you gave me a 10 pound 458AR with a LER scope and an 8 pound 470 MBogo with a standard scope and the first time I pulled the trigger on the Mbogo it belted me senseless and cut me and the 458AR was a walk in the park to shoot.........[/quote]

Just curious who in their right mind would build an 8lb. 470 Mbogo. Am I reading your post correctly in thinking that you shot an 8lb 470?
I know of one 470 Mbogo in Australia but if there are more that would be interesting. If you went to a short barrel in the 470 you should probably think about going to a 540 grain bullet.
Take good care,
Dave

heck, not even i would build an 8# mbogo!

quote:

Originally posted by 470 Mbogo:
Actually Gumboot, truth be told,

If you gave me a 10 pound 458AR with a LER scope and an 8 pound 470 MBogo with a standard scope and the first time I pulled the trigger on the Mbogo it belted me senseless and cut me and the 458AR was a walk in the park to shoot.........

quote:

Just curious who in their right mind would build an 8lb. 470 Mbogo. Am I reading your post correctly in thinking that you shot an 8lb 470?
I know of one 470 Mbogo in Australia but if there are more that would be interesting. If you went to a short barrel in the 470 you should probably think about going to a 540 grain bullet.
Take good care,
Dave

Yer an 8lb Mbogo would take some kahoonas and a mouth gaurd

No I haven't shot the Mbogo, I'd love to give it a try though, but my reference was more about how the better killer in my hands would be the rifle I knew was more comfortable to shoot and wouldn't hurt me, based on shot placement, not so much on energy or shock

We could "alter" my example to the 470 Mbogo against the 577 Trex, in that case I'm sure the Mbogo would be the better killer in my hands because I'd have my eyes closed pulling the trigger on the trex. and god knows were that bullet would go

Out of interest Dave what is the recoil like on the 470 Mbogo ?

Jeff, have you got some "round about" recoil figures on standard weight rifles 500 AR & 458 AR


Jeff thats really good news on the Dies and reamers, I will take a trimmer die if you have a spare one.....and Frank lets do the 2 barrels together at PACNOR, it's only another $50 to chamber and they will already have it all set up to go for the second barrel


regards
S&F

Joe,
lets assume 9.5# for all of them... thats ballpark enough for discussions, and remember the powder charge impacts recoil. i am going to give us ME and recoil ,, note, all can be loaded hotter, but not designed to ..the 500 ar can hit 2350 with a 600, delivering 7300+ .. but lets focus on nominal loads

500 ar 600gr at 2200 fps 6450 ft.-lbs. 103.07 ft.-lbs.

500 ar 535gr at 2350 fps 6562 ft.-lbs. 99.06 ft.-lbs.

470 mbogo 500gr at 2500 fps 6941 ft.-lbs. 104.24 ft.-lbs.

470 mbogo 400gr at 2700 fps 6477 ft.-lbs. 85.14 ft.-lbs.

458 AR 500gr at 2350 fps 6133 ft.-lbs. 82.27 ft.-lbs.

458 AR 400gr at 2500 fps 5553 ft.-lbs. 66.27 ft.-lbs.

I've shot all 3 of these, and at this moment, only Hogkiller can claim the same .. the mbogo is awesome ... and the ARs are just 1 step behind on paper. but in practical terms, under 200 yards, they are interchangable... but if you shots start going longer, the mbogo is the better round ... though the 416ar isn't bad for longer distances