Where you get the brass for these. ? It was.probably covered in previous pages. If someone could give me a heads up
Ideally Ide like to use 06 brass if that's possible.

www.qual-cart.com

I got mine from Quality Cartridge Company. They are cylinder brass with 400 Whelen headstamp.
See the link above.
35 Whelen brass works or 30/06 or ??

Thank you!
I haven't made it past page 10 on this thread yet. Lot of reading. I'm wondering about how many fps per inch would be lost from the 24" barrel velocities. . I'm a sucker for short barrels. 18.5" is a real nice length, legal in Canada, easy to always have at hand. Also can the 41 mag bullet sizer be used in a reloading press or does it take a separate press to swage down Speer and Hawk bullets???

quote:

I'm wondering about how many fps per inch would be lost from the 24" barrel velocities

probably not as much as you think.

What is the out of the box OAL for the 400 Basic?

z-hat sells a 06 basic that is 2.65+" but it say 35 Whelen on the head.

Really interesting thread this!

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

I'm wondering about how many fps per inch would be lost from the 24" barrel velocities

probably not as much as you think.

What is the out of the box OAL for the 400 Basic?

z-hat sells a 06 basic that is 2.65+" but it say 35 Whelen on the head.

2.5565"
That's what my cylinder brass measures from Qual, right out of the bag.

quote:

2.5565"

Thanks. Too short to help me out.

Bill,
You hade the equivalent to the .400 Whelen in your Winchester 1895 .405 Winchester;the same velocity for 300 and 400 grain bullets.
.400 Whelen
Type Rifle
Place of origin United States
Production history
Designer Townsend Whelen
Designed early 1920s
Specifications
Parent case .30-06 Springfield
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
300 gr (19 g) SP 2,300 ft/s (700 m/s) 3,522 ft·lbf (4,775 J)
350 gr (23 g) 2,100 ft/s (640 m/s) 3,430 ft·lbf (4,650 J)
Source(s): 350gr - Barnes[1]


Do you just prefer bolt guns?

The extra velocity puts it into the viable heavy and dangerous game category of the 450/400 N.E.
The 405 didn't quite have enough. With modern bullets like the 300 gr TSX, 317 GS HV ect. The 405 would be a lot more useful but if 200 +fps can be gained. Why not gain it.

WRT 1895 .405 velocity:
I stopped my 300 grain North Fork loads at 2250 because they shot to the same point of aim as factory Hornady 300 grain ammo. Others have pushed 300 grain bullets to 2350 and 2400 fps.
My 400 grain Woodleighs (I skipped the 350 grain bullets) muzzle velocity is around 2080 , exactly the velocity of a friends 450-400 double . We know that is enough to take buff and ele.


PS I was just teasing Bill as he had an 1895 .405 Winnie and sold it before hunting with it. Afraid of getting hooked on it I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

2.5565"

Thanks. Too short to help me out.

Paul I think I recall seeing .280 cylinder brass at Qual that was longer. You might give them a look.
I've been happy with the brass I received from Qual even though I've heard that some folks have complaints.

quote:

I recall seeing .280 cylinder brass at Qual that was longer.

thanks, I'll send them an email. Probably should just contact z-hat and buy some of his. Not crazy about the 35 Whelen headstamp. But the neck thickness is right for my dies.

I can use Howell basic for AHR as well but the neck is thinner and it cost me another reloading step.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Please tell me again what I need to resize the Speer 350 .416 Mag Tips>?

I use a cheap Lee bullet resizer and my rockchucker. I think Rip was driving the bullets through the die with a punch then sending back through with the press.

Found it.

quote:

Originally posted by roughone:
I just returned from the range with a new load for the 400W. I am using the 400 gr. Hornady .416, sized to .411.
Powder - 59 gr. Ramshot TAC (Full, not compressed)
Primer - WLRM
Case - R-P 280R blown out and trimmed to 2.484

Average Velocity - 2114
sd - 6
ES - 10

When I loaded 3 with 60 gr. for a quick sniff test, the velocity spread was over 100 fps and the primer pockets expanded. 59 gr. is definitely maximum.

It appears to group well, but I can't be sure because my 30mm Burris Euro Black Diamond scope has had the guts kicked out of it. When I started shooting I was having trouble seeing the target. The chronograph was in perfect focus. By the time I finished, all I could see of the target (Redfield) was a white, fuzzy square. After tightening the posi-lok, I put 6 into a 2x4 in group. Before that, the group was 6x6. I would have expected better from Burris. I guess I will stick with Leupold on the kickers.

This is a good point. I have gone to etched reticle scopes because of this more than aggravation. . Mart, have you had the same scope on your 400 since you started and how is it holding up?

Well I'm not Mart. But I have close to 400rds through my 400PDK. My (well crap)

I was getting ready to say my Burris but then it hit me. My 380PDK has a Burris 3x9x40 and it is in the 250rd range and doing fine.

My 400PDK has a Tasco Titan on it? Anyway it is still going strong.

.416-bullets sized to .411-caliber, an old Barnes Original 400-grainer and a Speer MagTip 350-grainer:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Please tell me again what I need to resize the Speer 350 .416 Mag Tips>?

I use a cheap Lee bullet resizer and my rockchucker. I think Rip was driving the bullets through the die with a punch then sending back through with the press.

Found it.

Rusty taught me how to use a 1-ton arbor press and proper lube with CH4D bullet sizing dies.
I do not remember using a punch and a hammer, it was an arbor press, a cheapie I bought at Harbor Freight store ...
Two step:
Push the .416-caliber bullet through the .412"-sizer, and it springs back to .413".
Push the .413" through a .410" and it springs back to .411".
Use rhe RCBS Case Lube-2, same stuff you use on a lube pad for sizing brass cases.
Roll the bullets on the lube pad before sizing.
Just that little dab will do you, and it is water soluble, cleans up very easily.

From a couple of pages back on this thread:

Reiterating:



Rusty's method was a snap.
No more STP for me.

I cannot explain the physics/chemistry of it, but the RCBS Case Lube-2 causes only a .001" spring-back.
Yes, .416 jacketed and monometal copper bullets pushed through a .412" CH4D sizer come out as .413".
.410 sizer >>> .411-caliber bullet for 400 Whelen.
.409 sizer >>> .410-caliber bullet for 450/400 NE 3".
.407 sizer >>> .408-caliber bullet for .408 Chey-Tac.

To make smaller diameter bullets from .416-caliber bullets:

Two steps for 400 Whelen/.411-caliber: .412 and .410 sizing dies needed (Lee will do if you don't have the better CH4D)
Two steps for 450/400 NE 3"/.410-caliber: .412 and .409
Three steps for .408 Chey-Tac/.408-caliber: .412, .409, and .407

This is a great way to provide the less available heavy bullets for the 400 Whelen (350-400 grains) ...

√ , Thank you!! I spose I ought to check with Rough One and see how backed up he may be around February.

On another note, does anyone have an underbarrel recoil lug on their 400 ?
RamRod ; thanks for the info on your scope. I'm thinking the 1-4×24 Vortex Viper PST would be ideal. It has a dot center with a mil reticle good tough etched reticle scope.

Is it essential to do the bullet resize from .416 to .411 in two steps or can I muscle it thru in a single pass in a .410 die??

I do it in one pass, but have to use a 3 ft. cheater bar on my 1 ton arbor press.

Any broken stocks yet?

Mine is in a synthetic so no broken stock, these .400's are big puppy dogs, not hot rods.
I find nothing objectionable about the recoil at all. Not sharp just a big push.
I am running 400 grain bullets at 2160 fps and I have a ways to go I feel like these are upper mid range or low top end loads. Pretty sure I'll get to 2200 fps with the 400 grainer.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
√ , Thank you!! I spose I ought to check with Rough One and see how backed up he may be around February.

On another note, does anyone have an underbarrel recoil lug on their 400 ?
RamRod ; thanks for the info on your scope. I'm thinking the 1-4×24 Vortex Viper PST would be ideal. It has a dot center with a mil reticle good tough etched reticle scope.

Kevin Weaver of Weaverrifles.com has the correct reamer for it as well, he also does 400 H&H's.

quote:

I do not remember using a punch and a hammer

Rip, Sorry about that. My Swiss cheese memory probably combined several thoughts. Back in early 2013 You were talking about not having enough leverage to use your press to resize the Magtips without pulling it loose from it mounts. You said that maybe using a drive through and a heavy vise you go do it.

So after a year or so I actually remember none of the facts correct.

As to resizing the 416s to 411 as I've said before a cheap lee die works for me. I'm not man enough ot push it through using my rockchucker without cheating. I don't think my bench would handle a long cheater.

What I do is back the die out until I'm using only the breakover point of the press. Give me huge leverage. Then turn the die down another couple turns and do it again. Can't remember but it takes 4-5 steps. So yes resizing from 416 to 411 in 1/8" moves.

Since I might do 50 in a year do big deal it is slow. If I was doing a bunch I would look to something with more mechanical advantage.

Recoil wise I've had 300 & 338 Magnums that felt far heavier. I see the 400 as a heavy shove not a hit.

Ok. √ . I've always knee jerked to an under barrel recoil lug as even my 9.3×64 split its stock when I started pushing 285 grain bullets up around 2700 fps. Since all the CZ 550s I've had had them. Even the 9.3×62 Medium and 300 Win Mag on the Magnum action.

Well, the sun just barely broke over at the top of the willows today and now is on it's way back down.
I know I've done lots of question asking and I appreciate all the thotful replies. . I'm very.interested in this 400 WPB with the PS. 3" long freebore with approx 3.4" oal. Mine will be in a Ruger M77 Mk2 stainless Hawkeye. Shilen #4 stainless. 1-14" twist. Still not sure on barrel length as I need 4k ftlbs impact energy. My goal it to retire my 458 as my primary rifle for everything other than my winter rifle.
The 400 grain load at 2150 fps will be the general load. Excellent meat load on little Sitka Blacktails and enough hogs head of clobber to knock down a 9'+ 26 year old brown bear intent on making me one of his meals at 20' or less and 30 MPH. The 300 gr TSX and 317 gr GS HV at as close to or above 2500 fps would work probably as well on the bear but would be a little rougher on the deer meat. . Who knows, perhaps the 350 TTSX resized will be the all around load. . Now I just need to go back to the arctic to finance this.

I think I got the . in the wrong place on the freebore in my previous post. Perhaps the learned will decern.

With my 416s Taylor's and Remington's, my favorite meat load was a 400 gr bullet @2200 fps. It just poked a hole thru them and heart shots were easy from most angles. By burning 60 gr or less medium-fastish powder. H4895 IMR 8208XBR, ect the recoil should be quite mild as has been reported.

I have been working hard at getting myself to convert to the rounds with a 3 as their starting number but just can't. As I don't have a gunbearer I have found it easier to always have in my hands the rifle that will do the biggest job I may need it for and make it do he less critical job. Like shooting deer @300+ yards with my 458. Which I've done. .
This thread has been quite an Inception!
Wish y'all would have done this 30 years ago. Just kidding. Perhaps I should have.

Picked up some more 8208XBR this afternoon in anticipation.

Jeez you guys,,,,,

This thread is driving me beserk,,

I'm doing my best at not sending one of my beloved 70's in for a rebarrel,, it's not like I'm big-bore challenged at all but now the 400 seems to make a ton on sense and would fit a 70 to a T,,,,

quote:

Jeez you guys,,,,,This thread is driving me beserk,,I'm doing my best at not sending one of my beloved 70's in for a rebarrel,, it's not like I'm big-bore challenged at all but now the 400 seems to make a ton on sense and would fit a 70 to a T,,,,

It is a real shame that the gun writers couldn't get their facts straight as to the proper dimensions of the Original 400 Whelen.
I built my own 400PDK based on my wildcat case then switched to cylinder brass to make forming easier and allowing me to make the case 2.65". While my case is a touch larger I limit to 3.34" Taken to 3.4 or 3.5 the net capacity between me and the Whelen is not enough to even calculate.

AHR also had a 400 or 410 Howell design to enlarge their 380 Howell. About the same time I did my 416PDK. Talking to Wayne the other day he wasn't sure if the reamer had been used.

I wonder if z-hat hadn't done the 411Hawk how many 400 Whelen builds you guys would have done.

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Jeez you guys,,,,,

This thread is driving me beserk,,

I'm doing my best at not sending one of my beloved 70's in for a rebarrel,, it's not like I'm big-bore challenged at all but now the 400 seems to make a ton on sense and would fit a 70 to a T,,,,

You prolly got a standard bolt face model 70 somewhere don't ya Jim.
With a #4 contour Shilen stainless barrel, and a synthetic stock. LW Talley 30 mm rings and a 1-4×24 , 30 mm Vortex Viper PST. It would prolly weigh 8 lbs. Pretty easy packin.

Pretty awesome rig!!

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
This is a good point. I have gone to etched reticle scopes because of this more than aggravation. . Mart, have you had the same scope on your 400 since you started and how is it holding up?

I've had three scopes on mine. I started the original load development with a steel 4x Weaver. I was also using a Lead Sled with 25 pounds. That was a mistake. I ended up destroying the scope and one of the rings sheared off the mount. They were Weaver rings and bases. I don't fault the scope. I blame that dang Lead Sled. No where for the recoil to go but into the gun.

I finished up my load development with a Leupold 3-9x and then changed out to a Leupold 3x, which was my plan all along. I love those old 3x Leupolds. The 3-9x had the most loads shot under it and it has held up beautifully. I don't use the Lead Sled any more for any of my rifles. I suppose it would be okay as long as there was no weight on it but I don't want to risk breaking another scope or snapping a stock at the wrist by using it with any weight.

The 3x has not had many rounds under it on this rifle but spent many years and many rounds on a 375 H&H and suffered no ills.

I have to agree with Snellstrom on the recoil. Really just a big push. I'd rather shoot my 400 with 400 grain bullets than a lot of mid bore magnums.

I tried the Lee sizing dies to make .411 bullets from .416 and it works. They shot really well also. I did it with the Speer 350 grain .416 and some Hawk 350 grain .416.

I ended up using a .410 die as I was getting spring back of .001 when I used a .411 die. I had to make a couple pushes, starting with the die just started into the threads and then turning it down enough for the second push so the bullet finished passing through the die. Slow but it worked.

Honestly with the North Fork, Swift and Hawk bullets that are available in 300-360 grains, I don't see the need to resize .416 bullets.

I also had great success with a fixed 3×20 Leupold on my last 375 HandH. I prefer dot reticles over duplex. But otherwise the fixed 3 was a great big game scope.


http://m.hornady.com/store/400-Cal-.410-400-gr-DGX/
Would there be too much blow by with this bullet?

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I think I got the . in the wrong place on the freebore in my previous post ...

You got it right.
Petrov's 400W has 0.188" of Parallel-Sided Freebore Length.
The 400W-B has 0.300" of PSFBL.

Rusty (roughone) has reamers for both.
He is working on a Ruger No.1 shotgun for me right now, 20 Ga-3.5", just for kicks with 920-grain slugs or 330-grain roundballs.

That should be quite delightful when the trigger breaks on a 1/8th pound bullet!

Merry Christmas to all

I found a 17 Eddystone Enfield that has had the ears ground off it and Weaver bases mounted. Follower has been sporterized. Monte Carlo stock that is rough looking. . It still has the stripper clip slots. For if a guy got into a herd charge
Still dog legged and cock on closing. Which is fine. Think I can get it for 200$ .

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Did Kevin Weaver build this rifle? It looks really really good! I looked into using a Springfield action, but the only affordable(for my measly budget) ones were really "crappy"...

Yes Templar, Kevin did build my rifle.

PWS either a Win M70 or a Ruger would work just fine. My Springfield holds 5 down plus one in the pipe with no mods that I know of.
I got lucky about 8 years ago and bought the Springfield I used for under 200$ on Gunbroker and it was ugly, hand carved naked lady stock, high see thru rings, rust pitted barrel. Believe it or not I sold the rings and naked lady carved stock for 80$!

Can't beat the naked-lady story but I did pick up a nice but odd Springfield while on vacation. It's got a heavy barrel in .308 with a left hand bench rest stock. The action is in great shape and should be an excellent foundation. Gotta sell a few things to finance the barrel next.

PWS you are on the path!
Order your Shilen barrel and get a cheap synthetic stock and you have a shooter!

Anyone that hasn't tried the Boyd's JRS Classic stock yet hould if they get a chance to.
For a big game stock it is designed . very, very well. Especially for 110$ or so . The laminate stock on my 9.3×64 is this model and it fits very well for offhand shooting.