quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
How about a 350 gr swift A frame?

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
RIP--Shilohs have a bore dimension of 450/458, and mine has a standard factory barrel. That particular rifle has been used for nearly ten years in BPCR competition and as a test rifle and has nearly 23,000 rounds on the barrel. It has never had a jacketed bullet run through it.

Bullets from the Lyman 457121 molds fall out at .4565, and I don't size them. I dip lube them and then run them through a .458 sizing die to remove the excess lube. When fired, they upset and fill the bore perfectly and do not lead the bore, and are very accurate. They actually run between 475 and 478 grains. I have used them in my Pedersolis as well with the same good results.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
4sixteen,



500-gr at 1600 fps in a Marlin.
That is very interesting too.
Care to divulge what powder charge you use?
Flatten the round noses in the jaws of a vise for tubular magazine and all the COL you can get?

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
Like the idea and nostalgia of cast but experiences with less than stellar accuracy have led me to dismiss these for use in hunting rounds. Continued reliable results with jacketed and brass solids.

For example Hornady 45 caliber 500gr RN at 1600 fps impact speed punch clear through broadside on Moose. Wide wound channel. Plenty of shock at this higher impact speed. Prefer a fast handling rifle with quick repeat fire capability when hunting in big Bear territory - lever or bolt action.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
I don't really know what to tell you about your lack of accuracy problem with cast bullets, but your experience in this area certainly doesn't mirror mine. I don't want to get in to a bragging or pissing match over this, but I will say that I have routinely taken animals with one shot with my Sharps rifles and cast bullets at laser measured distances that are quite a bit farther than most people on this forum are willing to shoot. If my ammo loaded with cast bullets did not give good accuracy, I couldn't do this, and I don't take shots that I don't think I can make. I fully expect to kill any animal I decide to shoot at with the first shot, and don't consider myself limited because my ammo is loaded with cast bullets.

Having said that, I think we should all use what we are comfortable with and what we feel works best for us.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
RIP--A couple of things..I hope you have good luck with the 45 on the 2.6 inch case. I used to provide loading assistance to guys with problematic BPCR rifles here at my range, and of the six that I never could get to shoot acceptably well, four were chambered in 45-2.6. Three were Ballards, and one was a Shiloh Sharps. I always suspected that there was something awry with the harmonic produced by that particular length powder column. It is interesting to note that this particular chambering was used by the Sharps factory only for a very short time. It was first used in Nov. of 1876 and was replaced by the 2.4 inch case in June 1877. I suspect the factory had trouble with accuracy as well. Anyway, I hope you can make it work.

No worries, I enjoy a challenge.
Yep, from the horses' mouths (yours and Frank Seller's), I note that the .45-2.6" Straight case was first used by Sharps in November 1876.
They used a .45/100/550 paper patch as the standard load.
June 8, 1877 Sharps introduced the .45-2.4" Straight case and used the same load in it.
They just seated the paper-patched 550-grain bullet less deeply, in the shorter case, same amount of powder compression, same powder column length.
So I do not understand any powder-column harmonic problem there,
UNLESS
it occurs when seating same bullets to same depth in the 2.1", 2.4", and 2.6" Straight cases, like you do with grease-grooved bullets.
Greater compression comes with shorter cases. Maybe the greater compression of BP makes it work better.
Up to 0.5" compression in the 2.1" case?
That would be like a non-compressed 70 grains of BP in the 2.6" case.
Yet they got 100 grains of BP into both 2.4" and 2.6" Straight cases.

Yet John Rigby and Daniel Frazier took up the obsolete Sharps case a few years later in the UK, circa 1880,
and they called it the .450-2.6" MATCH.

That flat nosed bullet is going to work well, and is a very good killer on game. It is also accurate at long range. I suspect it will end up being your go to bullet. Its only drawback that I can find is that it doesn't look very impressive in a cartridge belt.


I may be wrong, but I don't think the other bullet will want to shoot well, as it has a long, unsupported nose. Unlike a jacketed spitzer, these cast bullets often suffer from nose slump and attendant accuracy issues. I KNOW it will not kill well, as it is tapered and designed much like a suppository

for easy insertion, ostensibly so that it will get through the wind with minimal resistance.

OK, so it is a TARGET bullet for use in the .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6" or even the .458 W-W Super 3.8" wildcat.
So it is with the Barnes .458/500-grain TSX which is fantastic in the air, and tumbles after impact.

It does the same thing in flesh, as I have a friend that lost three consecutive hogs shooting a similar bullet. I also watched a hunting companion put five rounds behind the shoulder and out the other side of a cow elk from about 50 yards shooting a 45-110 and a 540 grain Metford bullet which is very similar--and she didn't even flinch until she fell over. About four hours later the same fellow shooting the same rifle put a 5x6 bull on the ground with one shot with the same behind the shoulder hit, only this time he was shooting a 504 grain flat nosed bullet with a generous meplat. It gave an exit hole nearly the size of a 50 cent piece, and the bull took three steps and dropped.

I get it. Got it.

Having said all of that, you never know which bullet is going to shoot the best out of a given rifle until you try it. I do know that the flat nosed bullet is far and away the best hunting bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
RIP--In North America, I have killed quite a number of deer and hogs. So many that I have lost count, actually. Most of the deer were taken between 65 and 150 yards. I have also taken three elk and six or eight buffalo, I can't remember which. Add a couple of javalina, an aoudad and a couple of bobcats and four or five coyotes that I remember. My longest shot on big game in North America was 245 yards with a 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps in Tensas Parish, Louisiana a number of years ago on an eight point whitetail. My longest shot on a buffalo--bison--was a bit over 180 yards. I have never recovered a bullet from an animal in North America. Probably my BEST shot in North America was a crow I shot off the ground on my rifle range with my 40-70 Sharps Straight at 321 yards. I also killed a crow at 205 yards with my 45-110 and a 511 grain paper patched bullet. I have missed some and knocked feathers off of a couple , but a crow is a sporting target, and I take a crack at one whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Now. Africa is the Real Deal. Lots more game, and the Eastern Cape provides more open space than where I hunted in the American south. The first animal I took in Africa was a 48 inch kudu at 302 yards. One shot, down and done with a 45-110 Shiloh Business Rifle and a 520 grain Lyman Govt bullet. You will see this on the DVD that is in the mail. Then there is the black wildebeast at 229, the 327 yard springbok, the 196 yard gemsbok, the 312 yard blue wildebeast and a couple more. There are a couple of zebra on the list, one with a 45-70.

The longest shot I have made was a Springbok at 547 yards with a 511 grain paper patched bullet out of a 45-110, although I took two blesbok one day north of Durban with a 45-70, one at 451 yards and another at 307. I was shooting the 457121 Lyman flatnosed bullet in the 45-70. It is the same rifle and load I used on the zebra in the DVD.

A good laser rangefinder is essential to success doing this, and all these distances in Africa were taken with a Leica CRF1200. My current rangefinder of choice is a SIG Kilo 2200. All this is done with cast lead bullets and black powder, and barrel buckhorn and blade front sight. No scope, no jacketed bullets, and no smokeless or duplex loads. In fact, I have never taken an animal with smokeless powder and a jacketed bullet. Hope this helps a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Sharpsguy,
We thank you for your contributions! Harmonics in a Powder Column! RIP, just think of what can be done on the 458WM thread with that one. Maybe Sharpsguy will venture over and share some Cast wisdom on that story. For the Mission of course!!