Bob,
My local range has not announced any opening plans as of my telephone call today.
Good to hear that your locale is getting with it in time for bear season.
I am still at it piling up some handloads to test.
Daisy and Marcella are going to get a workout, soon, I hope.
Maybe FedEx will allow me to get the best 400-ish-grainer samples to you for "verification" will see ...

Rip ...

I am sold on the brass 2-cavity.
Fine results seem easy with this one:

Dang, it is raining again today, the creeks have risen, the rivers are flooding, and frost is possible tonight in my locale this early May.
Covid-19 hysteria continues in KY.
Back to the loading bench.
So far planned for an outing, 3 rifles cleaned and ready, three ladies in waiting,

Daisy: 57 rounds of powder-coat-painted cast bullets, .461" diameter in .459" grooves
Marcella: 28 rounds of grease-lubed cast bullets, .459" diameter in .458" grooves
Bobbarrella: 30 rounds of Woodleigh 400-gr PPSN, jacketed .458" diameter in .4585" grooves, OK, call it .459", grooves.

Thought for the day:
The .458 Winchester Magnum is the wisest choice between too little and too much.

Rip ...

Page 200 coming up Ron.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Very nice looking bullet RIP! Thanks for the data.

Waiting, waiting! In the meanwhile doing some handloads, spring chores outside and inside, and Internet stuff.

And I mustn't forget bird watching; we have several feeders and it's getting very busy. Yesterday drove north 40 min. to Carden Plains, a bird conservancy. Last time, about five days ago, saw 2 bluebirds, multiple tree swallows and red winged black birds. Also my first sighting of a killdeer. Then two pairs of Canada geese in a pond. Etc. But the real point of this is that the temp yesterday was 0*C and a veritable blizzard for 20 min.! I sat in my car the whole time with the heater on. When the snow stopped, I idled the motor for 2 K to a particular spot. Saw a total of three birds and came home. They were smarter than I. It's apparent... it only takes a bird brain to do the right things for survival!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Bob,
We regularly see bluebirds from our kitchen window and many other birds around feeders in front yard. Wife was watching a bluebird last week when a small falcon flew by and snatched the bluebird from our fence. Not the Disney view of Nature!
Plus cranes and ducks winging it across horse pasture from stock tank to nearby lake.

Not so much fun is the property upkeep. Have a nice day- I am off to replenish supply of diesel and gasoline for farm equipment.

Thank you all for supporting THE MISSION,
especially those taking time out from birding.
Birds:
We have a sparrow hawk who takes a mourning dove from the backyard feeders now and then.
I highly recommend Droll Yankee brand squirrel-proof bird feeders. The whirl-a-squirrel Whipper, the Flipper and Dipper are all great.
Mystery solved on what has been digging in Wife's flower pots:



That is a hatchling from the first robin brood this year, photographed today, already has a long tail and speckled breast is turning orange.
Unusually cold weather in early spring while it was incubating !
We did have a frost this AM, in Kentucky, May 9, 2020.

Rip ...

Here is another bird that epitomizes the resurgence of the .458 Winchester Magnum: F-15EX



The F-15EX is an upgrade of the 1975 version of the F-15.
Sort of like the M70 Classic .458 WIN-V-3.6" compared to the M70 African of 1956.

The F-15EX may not be the size of a bee's behind on radar,
but it flies faster and carries more than 5 times the weapons weight of the F-35A in stealth mode.

So the F-35A will be the advanced scout for a CONVOCATION OF STRIKE EAGLES to swoop in and do the dirty work.

The F-15EX can fly 100 feet off the ground at Mach 2,
or Mach 2.5 at more than 11 miles high.



Sure reminds me of the .458 WIN.
It does new tricks like the .458 WIN,
though it has always been more than adequate.

The kill ratio of the previous versions of the F-15 in combat with the MiG is infinity.
Over a hundred MiG's shot down, zero F-15 shot down.
That there is just as effective as the .458 WIN as a DG rifle, sheep rifle and varmint rifle, the ultimate All Around Rifle,
.458 WIN-AAR.

Rip ...

That 400 gr Accurate boolit looks real nice. That would be a prime shape candidate for a soft nose, lynotype rear section . Would be interesting to have a 100 grain. Sockets soft nose ( pure lead) then the remaining bullet cast from lynotype. Maybe cast the soft noses from wheel weights . have a mold made with a stud protruding aft.
Cast a Bunch of soft noses . let cool. Then put them in that mold and pour the remaining part of the book it from lynotype.
Its an idea anyways.
Plop them out the muzzle @2100 fps. It would be an easy shooting , hard hitting boolit that shouldn't dump velocity as fast as a round nose or flat nose.

Thank you all for the kind words. I have a little less than 5 weeks remaining with the pillow sling. But the Surgeon advised me He probably wouldn't release me to go back to work until 6 MONTHS after the surgery. Ill probably be shooting up a storm by then.

RIP;

Interesting data on the F-35 and F-15EX.

Brent, our oldest son, has a daughter who's married to an F-18 pilot (She grew up in Africa). He was Canada's "Top Gun", and also won that award in competition in the USA as well. He is now training F-18 pilots at the base in Quebec. Prior to moving back to Canada a year ago, he was flying an F-15 for Holland's NATO forces involved in Iraq. He did scores of missions. I saw him (and family) at Christmas at our son's place on the waterfront, downtown Toronto. We had a VERY interesting chat about his involvement in Iraq!

In preparation for going to Holland, he did his training on the F-15 in the USA; Canada's contribution in that war was through NATO.

Brian (his name) also did reconnaissance flights over northwest Europe, and the Baltic, in the F-18, tracking Russian bombers. He flew up under the wing of one and captured that sequence on his I-phone!. It was sent to me by Brent. That was prior to involvement in Iraq.

Thought you might find this interesting.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

CTF;

It's always good to have a plan! It may not work out as planned, but it keeps our feet moving in a general direction toward that goal.

Get well soon!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

CTF,

You goaded me into an investigation, based on the Ross Seyfried article about casting soft nose bullets.
I hacksawed the ogived nose off one of those naked 401-grain Linotype bullets.
It weighs about 163 grains. An equal volume of soft lead would be about 176 grains.

A micro-dipper made from a 9mm Luger case holds 14.2 grains of water, which volume of lead would be about 161 grains.
A .40 S&W micro-dipper holds 20.6 grains of water: 234 grains of lead.
That one could be trimmed down to hold less molten lead when full.

I might try that, but first I have to try the solid Linotype version "401" for accuracy,
its long and pointy "FN" being suspect in the accuracy department.

That Saeco #20 543-grainer (1-2-5-92 alloy) is proven accurate.
A soft lead nose on that blunt FN might be interesting too.
Might get it up to 550 grains.
2150 fps with that would be smashing.

Rip ...

Bob,

So your granddaughter married one of those prima-donna Top Gun types, eh ?
Congratulations !
The F-15 is amazing.
Just like the .458 WIN.

Rip ...

Hey, my Hornady and Winchester brass cases both hold 94.3 grains of water gross, IIRC.

Filled a case with AA-2230 powder to overflow, no drop tube, leveled it off with a note card,
dumped it into the scale pan: 94.0 grains !!!
A God wink.
That was a brand new FL-sized Hornady case, never fired, and only 2.493" long.
It will hold more powder after it grows a little.

Seating the .458"/ 400-gr Woodleigh PPSN (BOL = 1.155") to COL of 3.395" requires a seating depth of 0.260" in a 2.500" case length,
with or without secondary cannelure and crimp.

AA-2230 charge in grains/ Load Ratio percentage fill:

65.0 grains/ 78 % fill ... use 0.8" length of half-inch diameter foam wad filler

75.0 grains/ 90 % fill

83.0 grains/ 100 % fill ... NO COMPRESSION

A drop tube was not used for above measurements, but could be used to make the .458 WIN even more impressive, still with NO COMPRESSION.

Top .458 Win.Mag. load in the Woodleigh manual with same bullet, crimped on factory cannelure:
H322 76.0 grains, 2400 fps, 3.125" COL, Compressed Load

Top .458 Lott load in the Woodleigh manual with same bullet, crimped on factory cannelure:
H4895 87.0 grains, 2570 fps, 3.425" COL, Compressed Load

The .458 Lott load is only 0.030" longer than the .458 WIN-V-3.4"-LongCOL load described above.
I could reduce the seating depth to 0.230" and use 3.425" COL for the .458 WIN-V.
However, not necessary, since the longer throat on the .458 WIN works like the afterburners on an F-15EX.

Will see if I can compress 87 grains of H4895 into a .458 WIN at 3.425" COL with the 400-gr PPSN,
and then see if I can beat that with the 83 grains of AA-2230 at 3.395" COL.

Whatever the 87 grains of H4895 does in the .458 WIN,
it will be at lower pressure than the same charge and COL in the .458 Lott.
Simple Physics.

With the F-15EX at Mach 2 and 100 feet altitude,
the evil doo-ers will never hear it coming.
5-G pull up to near vertical, drop the bombs, and coast to +100,000 feet to celebrate THE MISSION.
A 10-G pull up is gonna require getting rid of those Top Gun humans in the cockpit.
Then they can build the air frame of the F-15EXYZ even stronger.

Rip ...

I'm really hoping the Accurate "401" is accurate. It would be serviceable as a deer boolit as is. But it would be nice to have it pack up some on impact.
I was thinking about 100 gr worth of softer lead . then the 300 gr rear would be sufficient to bust a good size bone in a larger ruminate.
The deep hollow nose that is found in many Mihec molds would be a good candidate for filling with soft lead if the cast hollow nose boolit could be put in a nose pour mold. I wonder how much lead a 32 ACP case would hold ?

RIP
With your love of cast bullets and the 458 Win, would you consider re-chambering Shiloh sharps from 45-70 to 458 Winchester Magnum?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
RIP
With your love of cast bullets and the 458 Win, would you consider re-chambering Shiloh sharps from 45-70 to 458 Winchester Magnum?

I think it's a better idea to just rename it to the 458 Sharps

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I'm really hoping the Accurate "401" is accurate. It would be serviceable as a deer boolit as is. But it would be nice to have it pack up some on impact.

I was thinking about 100 gr worth of softer lead, then the 300 gr rear would be sufficient to bust a good size bone in a larger ruminate.

I get it now, I like that plan.

The deep hollow nose that is found in many Mihec molds would be a good candidate for filling with soft lead if the cast hollow nose boolit could be put in a nose pour mold.

That might be too complicated for me.

I wonder how much lead a 32 ACP case would hold ?

32 ACP will not be necessary, but would be interesting to know that water capacity.
Water capacity in grains X 11.34 = lead capacity in grains.
It will be no problem to trim a 9mm Luger case to pour 100 grains of soft lead.
Maybe try it on another bullet too.
I have a single-cavity iron mould for this one.
I would not be worried about heating it to 850 degrees for a better weld.
Also, one cavity at a time is all you can do,
waiting 10 seconds for the soft lead to harden before you pour the hard alloy:



I might need a single-cavity iron mould for the "401" bullet too.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
RIP
With your love of cast bullets and the 458 Win, would you consider re-chambering Shiloh sharps from 45-70 to 458 Winchester Magnum?

boom stick,

Buy a donkey for supporting THE MISSION.
Recall that the 1874 Sharps extractor needs a flanged case,
unlike the Ruger No. 1 extractor-ejector.
But I did get a Ruger No. 1 .45-70 rechambered for the .45-2.6" Starline brass in a chamber with a SAAMI .458 Win.Mag throat.
And I did put a Pedersoli heavy, octagon barrel on another Ruger No. 1 and chambered it for same.
The former has .459" groove and 1:20" twist.
The latter has .457" groove and 1:18" twist.
Yes, they are great with cast bullets,
.461" in former and .459" in latter.
How soon you forget ... or you were not paying attention to earlier pages of THE MISSION.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
I think it's a better idea to just rename it to the 458 Sharps

As described to boomstick, above, I called it this and that until I settled on calling it the .45-2.6" Sharps Winchester Throat:



Once again I had re-invented the wheel.
That exact cartridge is a C.I.P. homologation known as the

.45-70 Elko Magnum

Now THAT is funny !

Rip ...

Here is something that is hilarious,
a starting load for the .458 WIN-V-3.425" that is a maximum load for the SAAMI .458 Lott:



A BPCR .45-70 Govt. load may have a 1/2" compression of the BP column in the case.
With this smokeless, extruded powder load for the .458 WIN the compression is less than half that amount and in a longer powder column.

I sometimes find myself asking "What would Bob do ? "

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I'm really hoping the Accurate "401" is accurate. It would be serviceable as a deer boolit as is. But it would be nice to have it pack up some on impact.

I was thinking about 100 gr worth of softer lead, then the 300 gr rear would be sufficient to bust a good size bone in a larger ruminate.

I get it now, I like that plan.

The deep hollow nose that is found in many Mihec molds would be a good candidate for filling with soft lead if the cast hollow nose boolit could be put in a nose pour mold.

That might be too complicated for me.

I wonder how much lead a 32 ACP case would hold ?

32 ACP will not be necessary, but would be interesting to know that water capacity.
Water capacity in grains X 11.34 = lead capacity in grains.
It will be no problem to trim a 9mm Luger case to pour 100 grains of soft lead.
Maybe try it on another bullet too.
I have a single-cavity iron mould for this one.
I would not be worried about heating it to 850 degrees for a better weld.
Also, one cavity at a time is all you can do,
waiting 10 seconds for the soft lead to harden before you pour the hard alloy:



I might need a single-cavity iron mould for the "401" bullet too.

Rip ...

Another way is to use round balls cast of pure lead. Put one of the round balls in the ladle, let it melt and come up to temp, then pour into the mould first. After the nose has been poured then pour the harder alloy on top.

A 45 cal round ball is approx 160gr.

In the past Ross Seyfried discussed techniques like this for producing soft nose pills. The key is keeping everything hot to ensure bonding and limit casting imperfections.

It’s pretty slow going but how many bullets do you need to hunt with? For sighting in, practice etc just use the harder pill.

I remembered, but the Shiloh is a different beast. Would a Winchester 1885 work?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
RIP
With your love of cast bullets and the 458 Win, would you consider re-chambering Shiloh sharps from 45-70 to 458 Winchester Magnum?

boom stick,

Buy a donkey for supporting THE MISSION.
Recall that the 1874 Sharps extractor needs a flanged case,
unlike the Ruger No. 1 extractor-ejector.
But I did get a Ruger No. 1 .45-70 rechambered for the .45-2.6" Starline brass in a chamber with a SAAMI .458 Win.Mag throat.
And I did put a Pedersoli heavy, octagon barrel on another Ruger No. 1 and chambered it for same.
The former has .459" groove and 1:20" twist.
The latter has .457" groove and 1:18" twist.
Yes, they are great with cast bullets,
.461" in former and .459" in latter.
How soon you forget ... or you were not paying attention to earlier pages of THE MISSION.

Rip ...

Or use chilled birdshot (low antimony, soft shot) weighing desired amount, pre-weighed ?
Soft lead airgun pellets ?
A 40-cal (.395") swaged lead ball weighs about 90 grains, add shot to that ?
Use an electric hotplate and a propane torch for accessory heat ?

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I remembered, but the Shiloh is a different beast. Would a Winchester 1885 work?

Nope, not for me, especially since I now have Daisy the .458 WINchester Magnum Ruger No. 1, .459" groove, 1:14" twist, 24" barrel:



Probably never would have been tempted by the .45-2.6"-SWT had I Daisy previously.

Bobbee Boom-Boom Ruger:



Goldie Pedersoli Ruger:



With those two, I need to leave the 1885 in peace as a .45-70 Govt.



Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
CTF,

You goaded me into an investigation, based on the Ross Seyfried article about casting soft nose bullets.
I hacksawed the ogived nose off one of those naked 401-grain Linotype bullets.
It weighs about 163 grains. An equal volume of soft lead would be about 176 grains.

A micro-dipper made from a 9mm Luger case holds 14.2 grains of water, which volume of lead would be about 161 grains.
A .40 S&W micro-dipper holds 20.6 grains of water: 234 grains of lead.
That one could be trimmed down to hold less molten lead when full.

I might try that, but first I have to try the solid Linotype version "401" for accuracy,
its long and pointy "FN" being suspect in the accuracy department.

That Saeco #20 543-grainer (1-2-5-92 alloy) is proven accurate.
A soft lead nose on that blunt FN might be interesting too.
Might get it up to 550 grains.
2150 fps with that would be smashing.

Rip ...

I have this mould and it cast with wheel weight at 548 gr.
in my friends Ruger no1 and 64 gr. of IMR 3031 it shoots at 2060 fps average. powder just touching the bullet
very accurate. at 100 yard inside 2 inches and often 1 inch
it is seated to the crimp groove
He uses dragon lube yellow with is similar to aloe but much better
I do not use hard lube because shooting in cold weather like in moose hunting we found out that its not good
never had lading the bullet are just air cool

quote:

Originally posted by canuck4570:
I have this mould and it cast with wheel weight at 548 gr.
in my friends Ruger no1 and 64 gr. of IMR 3031 it shoots at 2060 fps average. powder just touching the bullet
very accurate. at 100 yard inside 2 inches and often 1 inch
it is seated to the crimp groove
He uses dragon lube yellow with is similar to aloe but much better
I do not use hard lube because shooting in cold weather like in moose hunting we found out that its not good

Powder-coat paint as lubricant: Does not matter what the outdoor temp is, unlike with the grease lubes. That makes life simpler.
One less variable to finesse.

never had lading the bullet are just air cool

canuck4570,

Buy a donkey for that load data.
I would estimate that the same 64-gr charge of Hodgdon BENCHMARK (ADI Benchmark 2) would perform the same.
My off-the-shelf mould for your Saeco #20 is a 2-cavity iron mould, and I reckon yours is same.
Good results seem to come easy with this mould.
Excellent piece of equipment.



I load that bullet in the .458 WIN with COLs of 3.340", 3.475", and 3.600" by crimping on second, third, and fourth grooves on the bullet.
It can be loaded even shorter if crimping on the first groove which is more of a cannelure than a grease groove.
In a 25" Shilen barrel, with 3.600" COL:
78 grains of AA-2460 gives a 5-yard instrumental velocity of 2265 fps.
78 grains of H4895 gives a 5-yard instrumental velocity of 2212 fps.

My favorite load with that bullet (mine being 543-grains in 1-2-5-92 alloy) is at 3.475" COL with 72.0 grains of AA-2460:
2190 fps average 5-yard instrumental, ES of 4 fps and St.Dev. of 1.6 fps for 5 shots.
A 3-shot group was 0.69 MOA.
Hard to concentrate for a 5 shot group.
Excellent bullet.

Same 543-gr bullet at 3.340" COL, same rifle, 69.0 AA-2460 grains: 2131 fps instrumental velocity (5-yards).
Low pressure compared to the .458 Lott, no doubt.

Assuming BC = 0.300", add 13 fps to correct the above 5-yard velocities to MV.

Rip ...

Speaking of simplifying life.
One rifle to do it all, even shot loads for snakes and snacks:



And that rifle may be used with a muzzle brake for load testing.

Rip ...

The Woodleigh Bullets Loading Manual:

Maximum load for the SAAMI .458 Win.Mag. with 550-gr RN SN: 73.0 grains (C) Hodgdon BENCHMARK >>> 2110 fps
24" barrel
3.340" maximum COL
60,000 psi MAP

Maximum load for the SAAMI .458 Lott with 550-gr RN SN: 81.0 grains Alliant RL-15 >>> 2115 fps
24" barrel
3.600" maximum COL
62,500 psi MAP
OUCH !
More recoil and higher pressure too, for a gain of 5 fps at the muzzle.
The 5 fps also comes with additional cost of longer magazine box for the .458 Lott.

If you have the rifle with 3.6" COL capability,
it is better to make it a .458 WIN and beat the .458 Lott by a lott more than 5 fps.

Rip ...

Note that the powders are different. That is a pretty big variable difference in this comparison. Given the same barrel length, if you load the 458 WM to 3.6 OAL in a rifle with a long throat, and load the same load in a 458 Lott to 3.6” OAL with the same effective length throat with the same powder charge, they will produce the same velocity at the same pressure. They are the same cartridge loaded to the same length...

This argument is like saying that loading a 38 special with a 180 grain bullet to the same overall length as a 357 mag will make more power, with less powder, at less pressure. They are effectively the same round if the internal capacities, overall length, bullet, and case head to throat length are the same. The only difference I see are differences in neck tension which could go either way based on your sizing die, case mouth expanding plug, and degree of crimp in your particular case.


RC

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The Woodleigh Bullets Loading Manual:

Maximum load for the SAAMI .458 Win.Mag. with 550-gr RN SN: 73.0 grains (C) Hodgdon BENCHMARK >>> 2110 fps
24" barrel
3.340" maximum COL
60,000 psi MAP

Maximum load for the SAAMI .458 Lott with 550-gr RN SN: 81.0 grains Alliant RL-15 >>> 2115 fps
24" barrel
3.600" maximum COL
62,500 psi MAP
OUCH !
More recoil and higher pressure too, for a gain of 5 fps at the muzzle.
The 5 fps also comes with additional cost of longer magazine box for the .458 Lott.

If you have the rifle with 3.6" COL capability,
it is better to make it a .458 WIN and beat the .458 Lott by a lott more than 5 fps.

Rip ...

THE point is sir, that the SAAMI 458WM and the SAAMI 458 Lott have vastly different Throats and that fact correctly predicts the winner here. Loaded to the same 3.6 OAL, the 458WM will produce more velocity at same pressure levels than the Lott. OR: same velocity at less pressure whichever way you like your eggs cooked. Lot's of data in RIP's pages preceding to back that up.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildcatter:
Note that the powders are different. That is a pretty big variable difference in this comparison. Given the same barrel length, if you load the 458 WM to 3.6 OAL in a rifle with a long throat, and load the same load in a 458 Lott to 3.6” OAL with the same effective length throat with the same powder charge, they will produce the same velocity at the same pressure. They are the same cartridge loaded to the same length...RC

I'm waiting for RIP to answer, but its

But "the same effective length throat" is unclear. Do you mean the one "that Jack built", or SAAMI?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by Wildcatter:
Note that the powders are different.

Of course they are.
With the greater effective case capacity of the SAAMI .458 WINmag
(due to longer throat and longer free travel of bullet before full engagement in rifling),
one has to use a faster powder to get the pressure up to that of the effectively smaller-capacity SAAMI .458 Lott.

Yet the .458 WIN bullet starts off in a much smaller case capacity, and there are limits to how fast the powder can be.
Likewise, the .458 Lott bullet starts off from a larger initial case capacity, and it requires a slower powder
to prevent pressure from spiking at the start,
because the .458 Lott bullet is going to be fully engaged in the rifling sooner,
i.e., it has a smaller effective case capacity than the .458 WIN.

That is a pretty big variable difference in this comparison. Given the same barrel length, if you load the 458 WM to 3.6 OAL in a rifle with a long throat,

(Presumably the standard SAAMI throat for the .458 WIN.)

and load the same load in a 458 Lott to 3.6” OAL with the same effective length throat

That is where you go wrong. The SAAMI .458 Lott throat is considerably shorter.
It is not the same .458 Lott wildcat as Jack rustled up from the Watts-Winchester Herd.

with the same powder charge, they will produce the same velocity at the same pressure. They are the same cartridge loaded to the same length...

And now I refer you to the words of Fury01.
It cannot be said any better.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
THE point is sir, that the SAAMI 458WM and the SAAMI 458 Lott have vastly different Throats and that fact correctly predicts the winner here. Loaded to the same 3.6 OAL, the 458WM will produce more velocity at same pressure levels than the Lott. OR: same velocity at less pressure whichever way you like your eggs cooked. Lot's of data in RIP's pages preceding to back that up.

Rip ...

Bob,

Hope that satisfies your curiosity at the Wildcatter traffic accident as you drive by.
You are the Grandfather of the concept.
All you need to beat a SAAMI .458 Lott chambering with a SAAMI .458 WIN chambering is a rifle with capability to use a COL of 3.6".

We may even find out that the .458 WIN with shorter COL beats or at least equals the .458 Lott
in some instances,
if you allow them both to be loaded to the same pressure.

Alas, the .458 Lott will probably always be a better shotgun substitute,
because it can hold more birdshot.

Rip ...

You are using handloads to make the 458 WM a better cartridge with a free-bore length throat. Like I said, one variable is changed (handloading with a different powder) to make an argument correct. I can do it to. The throat issue is a very simple one. The 458 Lott throat becomes a non-issue with a $30 throater rental.

Feeble dig pointing out my “traffic accident” of logic.

Change another variable for the win, RIP

PS. I own page 200!! What do I win???

I just got caught up with Bob's blog at:

www.bigbores.ca

He is only through Part 2 of "Handloading -- When and Why I Got Into It"
and he is milking it for some great entertainment value as an introduction.
Great stuff.

I have an affinity for the GREAT NORTHWOODS, no doubt due to the fact I was conceived in Limestone, Maine, right on the border with New Brunswick.
Has something to do with geomagnetic effects in utero.

I have an affinity for preacher's too.
Married a Methodist Preacher's Daughter.
You know those Preacher's Kids can be wild.
I was not disappointed in mine.

Eventually Bob's blog will get back to the .458 WIN, I am sure.

Rip ...

Wildcatter,

For "owning" page 200 of THE MISSION your prize is a big BUY A BUY A BUY A DONKEY !
(If you do not speak Afrikaans, that means "thank you very very very much" intoned as Elvis would do it.)

Otherwise, you are not making a whole lott of sense.
A little sense here, and a little sense there, but not a whole lott of sense.
Any common sense in your reply above has been discussed here many times before.
I do not think you have read the entire thread,
or if you have, your comprehension was poor,
or maybe your recall is suffering from sometimer's disease ?

Your thoughts do not rise to the level of "preaching" yet, but if you keep at it, you might get the choir sleepy,
or aggravate them into singing more loudly.

Rip ...

You win by tenacity RIP. I am not the preachy type. I have never been able to beat a dead horse for 200 pages. What I know about rifle cartridges comes from building them and testing them myself and from a physics background. There isn’t a thing wrong with my logic. We agree to disagree. Sorry to intrude on Your thread.

Local shooting range is opening up 5-18-2020, members only at first, I'll be there,
Lord willin' and the creeks don't rise.
It will be a 3-rifle day with 118 rounds of .458 WIN handloads to be chronographed at 5 yards, targeted at 50 yards, as I usually do,
looking for loads with promise.

The batting order:

Daisy: 57 rounds of cast bullets
Marcella: 28 rounds of cast bullets
Bobbarrella: 33 rounds of Woodleigh 400-gr PP SN

400-grainers at +2500 fps are expected of Bobbarrella. Yes her muzzle brake will be appreciated by then.
She will bark louder butt bite less.

Rip ...