Excellent repartee on powder compression, gentlemen.
I am happiest when I have 105% loads with extruded powder,
a ball powder needing that much compression needs to be switched to a faster burning ball powder.

Now I wish to introduce the concept of foam wad compression expressed in the same way as "Load Ratio/Filling Percentage.

Using the caulking backer foam rod of 1/2" diameter in the .458 WIN,
I consider 400 % to be the maximum allowable LR.

That is, a half-inch long by half-inch diameter cylinder of the foam wad may be compressed to one-eighth inch length when bullet is seated.
(0.500"/.125") X 100% = 400%

In my current example, I used a 0.4" x 0.5" wad with AA-2230 in cast bullet loads.
With the lightest charge the filler wad "Filling" was 111%: 0.4" wad shortens to 0.360".
With the heaviest charge, the same wad "Filling" was 364%: 0.4" wad shortens to .110".



I hate air space in reduced loads.
Those 0.3-grain wads vanish on firing.
No snow storm like with the Dacron/polyester fluff.

Rip ...

Here is a quarantine activity, sort cast bullets by weight when you can't get to the range.
I will shoot the lightest ones with the lightest charge, heaviest ones with heaviest charge:



Oh yeah,
also working on my Ruger No.1.
Putting that ugly B&C synthetic forend on her right now.
Distasteful, but I have a strong stomach.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


I hate air space in reduced loads.

I hate fillers.

Reduced loads as in very reduced were perfectly and with top accuracy with the bullet seated onto or into the rifling. You will be amazed how low a load you can use and with powders like 3031. Obvioulsy that option is not on with the 378, 460 and 458.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


I hate air space in reduced loads.

I hate fillers.

Reduced loads as in very reduced were perfectly and with top accuracy with the bullet seated onto or into the rifling. You will be amazed how low a load you can use and with powders like 3031. Obvioulsy that option is not on with the 378, 460 and 458.

Krikey !
You cannot always seat a bullet into the lands of a .458 WIN. That is what makes it special.
So with air-space-reduced loads one might still get top accuracy about 4 shots out of 5,
the fifth one a flyer.

Rip ...

Mike,

You hate powder-coat paint on cast bullets too ?
I love it.
I have spiffed up my technique using the very economical Harbor Freight Red.

I use the special "non-stick" aluminum foil instead of a silicone cookie baking sheet now.

I have a half dozen little steel steak plates that have their matching little wooden plate holders under them.
Cover the steel steak plates with the foil, dull side of foil is non-stick side.

Bake first coat at 400 degrees F for 15 minutes, air cool.

Bake second coat at 450 degrees F for 30 minutes, then drop them into a bucket of 50 degree F water.

Seems to harden the bullets.

Then push them (dry) through the Lee sizer to apply the gas check and put a shine on the driving bands.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:


My present "hunting load" for the 500gr Speer GS is 81 grs H4895 at about 2300 fps. COL is 3.625" in the Ruger #1.

Bob,

Is that the Ruger 1 on top of your website. A good site by the way, I have looked at it plenty of times.

Yes it is, Mike. The buttstock was the one sent to me from Ron.

And thanks for the compliment.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Rip,
I can't find any Harbor Freight Red around here. White and Black is all I find.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Rip,
I can't find any Harbor Freight Red around here. White and Black is all I find.

What ! No yellow either?
It's about time you got some, Dennis.
I had to cross the Ohio River into Indiana to find it on the shelf in Evansville.
I do not know if it is sold on line.

Do not mess with any other color, get the Harbor Freight Red for about 8 bucks per pound, in a pint-sized plastic jar, and do thousands of bullets.
Or pay more for some proprietary "made for bullets" PC paint, NOT !



Rip ...

First step in bedding the B&C forend, on Daisy, .458 WIN Ruger No.1:

Sculpting of J-B Weld blob to follow:



Maybe a semi-schnable, ebony forend tip ?
I will paint it black after I carve it and sand it.

Rip ...

I'll take both Marcella and Daisy to the range for 32 shots and 33 shots of cast bullets, respectively,
Lord willing and the creeks don't rise.

Rip ...

Daisy now weighs same in synthetic stock as she did in walnut.
The job is solid, only some cosmetic detailing remains to be done, like putting lipstick on a pig.



She is short, 40" long, with 13.5" LOP, 24" barrel.
The M70 Classic in B&C Medalist stock, with 13.5" LOP and 23" barrel, is 44" long.
The bolt action with 19" barrel would be 40" overall length.

The Ruger No.1 allows a 5" shorter rifle than the bolt action with same barrel lengh.

Detailing for beautification:
A set of lips with red lipstick on the front flat of schnable tip?
It does sort of remind me of a pig's snout.
Make that black lipstick, for the pig's kiss of death.

The "synthetic-to-metal" fit of this B&C stock was pretty horrible to start with.
Hence so much J-B Weld visible where the action meets the buttstock and forend.
The factory walnut stocks are well fitted, slimmer and more flush with the metal at the action joints.
Bedding the walnut buttstock to the action would involve only a paintbrush and a dab of clear, liquid epoxy on the walnut that meets metal.
Apply release agent on the action where it meets buttstock.
Cover everything external with masking tape before getting started.
Wipe off any tiny amount of epoxy squeezed out onto the masking tape when the buttstock bolt is tightened.
Should be invisible externally when finished.
Then think about the threaded steel conduit for the stock bolt to beef up the job,
an approximately 4"-long, epoxy-bedded pillar running through the grip where there was just a hole in the walnut.
No X-ray on the B&C stock, but I think it has something like that.
If not metal, it is a smooth and shiny tube of hard substance moulded into the stock with steel washer or escutcheon on each end of it.

Rip ...

Well done RIP! Can't lose if you don't quit!!

That was quite the work you did on that B&C stock, looks good!

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Well done RIP! Can't lose if you don't quit!!

Fury01,

Buy a donkey for those flowers, man !

We won a long time ago.
The sourest of Lottites around (like MR) I think are the ones who are incapable of handloading the ammo.
Yes MR the real sourpusses.
They are stuck with the factory ammo for their .458 Lott.
They read the box and it says 2300 fps with 500-grainer, and they believe it.
They are incapable of testing it and comparing it to a .458 WIN handload with 500-grain bullet.
Absolutely, the .458 WIN will do 2300 fps for real, and at lower pressure than the .458 Lott.
So the Lottites cry in their beer, their fantasy of reality.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:
That was quite the work you did on that B&C stock, looks good!

Buglemintoday,

Buy a donkey for those flowers too !

I am not finished putting lipstick on the pig,
thought I might add a set of silver wings to the front of Daisy's schnable,
instead of the red or black lipstick smooch.
Why?
It is a reference to the Lottite lowbrow humor:
"When does the .458 Winchester Magnum beat the .458 Lott? When pigs fly !"

Rip ...

That is the old Nikon 3-9x40-BDC InLine scope that worked so well on the 7.25# .45-2.6" Sharps Winchester Throated.
It should last much longer on the 9-pounder.

Rip ...

A new, home-made carry strap for Daisy is a little heavier than the one for lightweight Marcella M70:

After only one use of this mould, I recommend it highly, the 2-cavity, aluminum one with standard sprue plate.
Those are 6-cavity Lee handles used on the Accurate Mold. Perfect fit.
First time out it produced 162 bullets and I tossed only 21 of them.
If I had pre-heated the mould and raised the lead temperature a wee bit, they might have all been perfect.
I say that because the Lee Hollow Base, single cavity mould (alternating with the Accurate Mold)
failed horribly.
The hollow-base produced an entire batch of 76 bullets with wrinkled noses and poor filling.
That is supposed to mean a cold mould or poorly vented mould or alloy not hot enough, I reckon.
I am going to melt them all down and try again, hotter.
Frosted hot !

Ought to be a good one.

Rip ...

Lookin’ good Rip! I reckon a 458 so loaded would do to walk the trails of Peru with!

Congrats RIP, well done!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

RIP - I like all your work with cast. I don’t think anyone has done such extensive work with cast in the 458.

I’ve finally got my CZ550 conversion back and the smith sorted out the feeding with a whole range of pills. He had to solder a thick plate to the inside of the mag box, reshape that to feed properly as well as rework the feed rails. Now unfortunately our ranges are closed and we’re still in lockdown.

I did some detailed measuring of cast pills from a discontinued Lyman mould 462560 that I thought was interesting. In reference data this bluff nosed pill has a base that measures 0.462.

It was described in Lyman literature as being designed specially for 458 and 460 Wby rifles. Back when it was released there were no other factory 458 cal rifles.

Anyhow, measuring revealed the following:

Rear band: 0.462
Middle band:0.461
Front band: 0.460
The nose is a bore rider that measures 0.449

I believe Lyman had intentionally designed it this way. Left unsized and loaded into a 458 case, the loaded shell fits the chamber with little room to slump to the bottom of the chamber.

The bullet is long and due to the bluff nose, it appears to be designed to enter the bore and be supported before the base leaves the case.

I plan to hand lube and test the theory as soon as restrictions lift. I also have some Hitec coating to play around with.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
... I reckon a 458 so loaded would do to walk the trails of Peru with!

They have white tailed deer, jaguar, puma, Andean bear, tapir, and monkeys galore.
Yep, the .458 WIN would be perfect for all with whatever 400-grainer loaded to preferred velocity.
I once knew a Mormon missionary kid who was a gunnutt from birth. He finished high school and headed off on his "mission."
When he wasn't preachin' in Peru, he was shooting howler monkeys out of the trees with a rifle borrowed from a potential convert, so he said.

Rip ...

Beauty and the Beast:



Bob,
Do you have a pet female name for "Beauty" ?
Daisy is a a Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde sort of girl.
She appreciates your load data.

Rip ...

JFE,

That is some excellent customization of the CZ 550 Magnum .458 WIN !
Great support of THE MISSION.
Internal box length 3.650" with internal reinforcement of front wall, and better feeding with FN bullets ?
That will beat any SAAMI .458 Lott.

I looked up your bullet and it would surely be simply marvelous in the .458 WIN.
So they knew about needing a +.460" diameter bullet in the .458 WIN and .460 WBY, eh?
The old Lyman cast bullet data from 1980 was even fired in a Ruger No.1.
The generic sizing info says .459" bullet for a .459"-grooved barrel.
Daisy is a 1980 model Ruger No.1





Note the short COL above, yet 1955 fps for the 552-grainer in a 24" barrel.
Much more can be done with that bullet with longer COL !
Very similar to the Saeco #020 bullet which is supposed to be 560-grains in lead, but 543-gr in my alloy with PC paint and gas check,
sized to .461" diameter.
Either 3.340", 3.475" or 3.600" COL works well with that one.
2265 fps with the 3.600" COL using 78 grains AA-2460.
But most accurate at 2190 fps (75 grains AA-2460).
78 grains of H4895 gave 2212 fps.
Those are 5-yard instrumental velocities for the 543-grain bullet in a 25"barrel.

Rip ...

Changed my mind on the lipstick for Daisy's Ms. Hyde outfit.
Will inset a .458 WIN case head with little gold wings above it on the J-B Weld schnable, muzzleward facing.
It is a refernce to the Lottite nightmare of a pig that flies and shatters the fantasy of the SAAMI .458 Lott superiority.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Back to the 458 WM; I find Cast Lead from 425 grain to the just loaded 485 grain, just wonderful to both shoot for fun and shoot for NA game loads.
I am looking forward to smacking a whitetail this year with the 485 with it's huge flat meplat. LBT MOLD 460-470-WFN
Feeds perfect in my Whitworth loaded at 3.265" OAL and I expect it to do very well on game.

Rip
I thought that I might copy my first post about cast in the 458wm, and also when we first became internet acquainted. You have done so much with this thread. Very happy to have contributed a tiny bit For The Mission!!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
JFE,

That is some excellent customization of the CZ 550 Magnum .458 WIN !
Great support of THE MISSION.
Internal box length 3.650" with internal reinforcement of front wall, and better feeding with FN bullets ?
That will beat any SAAMI .458 Lott.

I’m happy with the way it turned out, finally.

I gave the smith a box full of different dummies for the feed work. They included NF CPS, Woodleigh Hydros, PP & RN, Barnes TSX, Hornady FN pills as well as a few cast FN designs. It feeds them all now.

He wasn’t happy and swore he’d never do another one. It really was a pig to get right. Wayne at AHR confirmed converting a 375 to 458 was a difficult conversion job.

Anyhow it looks pretty good now blinged up with the AHR parts fitted. Next job is to get the stock slimmed down to something useable.

Fury01,

Thanks for the inspiration.
Cast 480-ish grainers are waiting to go here.

The cast 400-ish grainers will be a harkening back to my first infatuation with the .458 WIN, at 2400 fps, now known to be easily capable of +2500 fps.
1800 fps might do just fine for anything in NA brush hunting,
but seeing how the cast do at top velocity is inticing.

And just a reminder on how the .458 WIN can do more than the .458 Lott with heavy cast bullets:
That Saeco #020 has to be limited to 3.500" COL in the .458 Lott, if crimping in the grease grooves with the painted bullets.
Longer and shorter COL choices are available with the .458 WIN.
That bullet has a bore-riding nose, like the Lyman 462560, but still gets its .461" driving bands jammed in the .458 Lott short throat.




JFE's 462560 ought to be better in the .458 WIN than the .458 Lott, likewise.

Rip ...

In the pic it shows a target and a ground hog. Are they saying that the most common use for the 458 WM is target practice and vermin? Is that Buick sized charging ice age wooly mammoth ground squirrel? Maybe it is a pictograph showing the proper use of ground hog shoulders as rifle rests.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
JFE,

That is some excellent customization of the CZ 550 Magnum .458 WIN !
Great support of THE MISSION.
Internal box length 3.650" with internal reinforcement of front wall, and better feeding with FN bullets ?
That will beat any SAAMI .458 Lott.

I looked up your bullet and it would surely be simply marvelous in the .458 WIN.
So they knew about needing a +.460" diameter bullet in the .458 WIN and .460 WBY, eh?
The old Lyman cast bullet data from 1980 was even fired in a Ruger No.1.
The generic sizing info says .459" bullet for a .459"-grooved barrel.
Daisy is a 1980 model Ruger No.1





Note the short COL above, yet 1955 fps for the 552-grainer in a 24" barrel.
Much more can be done with that bullet with longer COL !
Very similar to the Saeco #020 bullet which is supposed to be 560-grains in lead, but 543-gr in my alloy with PC paint and gas check,
sized to .461" diameter.
Either 3.340", 3.475" or 3.600" COL works well with that one.
2265 fps with the 3.600" COL using 78 grains AA-2460.
But most accurate at 2190 fps (75 grains AA-2460).
78 grains of H4895 gave 2212 fps.
Those are 5-yard instrumental velocities for the 543-grain bullet in a 25"barrel.

Rip ...

boom stick,

Comments from the peanut gallery do support
THE MISSION, thanks.
The same stylized picture is the header for
every rifle cartridge in the book
from .22 Hornet to .50/140/3.25" Sharps.

In the handgun section it looks like
Dirty Harry's sixshooter is pointed at the
back of the same woodchuck's head.

Rip ...

The woodchuck bullet for boom stick, sort of like flowers for Algernon:

408-grainer is for big game.
375-grainer is for varmints, like woodchucks and squirrels.
I am wondering if an inverted, discarding gas check could be used with the hollow base.
If the bullet doesn't kill the varmint, the gas check might.

Rip ...