Ross shoots marshmallows out of the air with a handgun, his soft nose cast bullets are that good:

Ross says he casts at 750 F usually, but runs it up to 850 F when doing the soft nose bullets.

Ross Seyfried, Professional Small Boy Extraordinaire, whom we all aspire to be like (except for his "defiance" of the .458 WIN)
looking like a grown-up version of Dennis The Menace here:

At boom stick:

Ross mentioned drilling hollow points in the soft nose bullets, using a 3/16" bit on a .45-cal handgun bullet,
" ... and beveled with your case deburring tool ..." in true Bubba Bullet Metamorphosis fashion.

No great accuracy claimed nor intended, for defensive ammo use at close range, as against the charge of a 2-legged varmint, like emu, ostrich, etc.

Another remarkable point is that he did not mention arsenic content as needed for heat-treat hardening.
He did say that wheel weights and "Lawrence Magnum Alloy" could be heat-treat hardened.
I do believe those two are special because of the tiny amount of arsenic, not just due to the larger amounts of tin and antimony.
Well, Ross, bless his heart is not always right about everything.

Rip ...

Great stuff Ron when you post up these articles from the past.

Mike,
From: https://www.docdroid.net/udep/index.pdf

... and two 3" binders full of Ross Seyfried clippin's.
If you liked that article, buy a donkey.
I try to work one in now and then just to illustrate how even the greatest of minds can be wrong
when they defy the .458 WIN.
Like Forrest Gump said, "It happens."

Rip ...

Great stuff. I just opened one.

I recall reading articles by Ross Seyfried and really enjoyed his articles on handgun hunting. He had some heavy loads in a 5 shot 45LC that he used for hunting Cape Buffalo. His PH called the revolver “the small 458”.

I also recall reading his articles on bullet casting. He discussed his cast soft nose technique. Years ago CBE even offered a mould (for a 45/70 IIRC) that had a cavity for casting a soft nose which was then inserted into the adjoining cavity to finish the bullet with a harder alloy for the base. It’s effective but slow going.

Over the last 10-15 years there has been a resurgence of interest in cast HP bullets that, with the right alloy, can offer expansion even at low velocities. It is the next evolution of the expanding cast bullet.

The advent of inexpensive CNC machinery has allowed small shops to provide relatively small runs of bullet moulds featuring HP pins of varying size for different applications. The Mihec moulds made in Slovenia are excellent moulds. They feature a HP pin system along the Cramer style. Another supplier (NOE) uses a different technique to produce multiple HP cavity moulds. They are also well made. A few sites feature group buy opportunities with the most prolific being the Castboolits site. In general interested parties kick around a mould idea. The originator proposes a caliber, weight and design and this is refined in a peer review process until there is a consensus of the final design. If there is sufficient interest it is made and supplied by one of their sponsors. In some cases various options are possible, eg diameter, PB or GC, HP or solid nose etc. Most recent designs reflect the increasing use of PC.

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:
I recall reading articles by Ross Seyfried and really enjoyed his articles on handgun hunting. He had some heavy loads in a 5 shot 45LC that he used for hunting Cape Buffalo. His PH called the revolver “the small 458”.

I also recall reading his articles on bullet casting. He discussed his cast soft nose technique. Years ago CBE even offered a mould (for a 45/70 IIRC) that had a cavity for casting a soft nose which was then inserted into the adjoining cavity to finish the bullet with a harder alloy for the base. It’s effective but slow going.

Over the last 10-15 years there has been a resurgence of interest in cast HP bullets that, with the right alloy, can offer expansion even at low velocities. It is the next evolution of the expanding cast bullet.

The advent of inexpensive CNC machinery has allowed small shops to provide relatively small runs of bullet moulds featuring HP pins of varying size for different applications. The Mihec moulds made in Slovenia are excellent moulds. They feature a HP pin system along the Cramer style. Another supplier (NOE) uses a different technique to produce multiple HP cavity moulds. They are also well made. A few sites feature group buy opportunities with the most prolific being the Castboolits site. In general interested parties kick around a mould idea. The originator proposes a caliber, weight and design and this is refined in a peer review process until there is a consensus of the final design. If there is sufficient interest it is made and supplied by one of their sponsors. In some cases various options are possible, eg diameter, PB or GC, HP or solid nose etc. Most recent designs reflect the increasing use of PC.

I can attest to the quality of the Mihec molds. I have his brass molds for all my handgun calibers, and the brass molds are of the highest quality. It might be worth having a purpose-built .458 Win mold made that includes solid and hp nose pins.

Buy a donkey for the ideas, JFE and bcelliott.
I am enjoying looking for one more mould ...
as always.

Rip ...

This is too funny to leave on the other thread:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree, Mr. gunslinger55.

The .458 WM is mundane and uninteresting.

Plus, it has a checkered past, like the maybe girlfriend whose flirting you rightly refused.

Sounds slightly gay.

Give me more power and punch.

Learn to handload.

Just enough is just that, and not always nearly enough for what is needed.

So, handload !

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
But RIP has it loaded to 3.6" OAL and is doing better than the Lott because of the 458 throat.

Sure you can go to 460 or 500 A2 but a much bigger deal plus the 458 offers much greater potential in the reduced load and cast bullet area.

Mike,
Thanks for supporting THE MISSION.
You might want to tie half your brain behind your back when discussing this with MR, to make it less unfair for him.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
There are a number of gunwriters who seem to think that badmouthing a caliber they claim to have no knowledge of, makes them sound like some sort of expert.

Similar to Michael "MR" Robinson except he DOES claim to have knowledge of the .458 WIN, so his badmouthing of the .458 WIN must make him more of an expert.
Pure armchair expertise is all he has "more" of.
I am guessing he does not even handload, so he has to stick with whatever factory ammo he can find for his .458 Lott,
and he has never beat those ballistics with a .458 WIN, so easy to do.
Very similar to a .450 Marlin fan who cannot handload a .45-70 Govt. to beat the .450 Marlin.
Same same.

Checkered history of the .458 WIN, MR says ?
What about the wildcat rustling of Jack Lott, followed by the SAAMI corruption of the .458 Lott wildcat ?
Jack took a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum and reamed it to take brass that was 0.050" shorter than the well known .450 Watts Magnum.
Jack blended his throat into the existing SAAMI .458 WIN throat.
The current SAAMI .458 Lott is hampered by a too-short throat and COL.
Not like the one Jack built.
That is a convolutedly checkered history for the .458 Lott.
All that the .458 Lott's history has omitted is extreme popularity and huge runs of factory ammunition production resulting in some faulty lots of ammo.
FAULTY LOTT RIFLE has a more truthful ring to it.
Fitting a 0.3" longer cartridge into a rifle with magazine only 0.2" longer is not smart.
One has to trim the brass even shorter to fit many bullets into that 3.6" SAAMI COL.
Jack liked doing his proper wildcat rifles on BRNO ZKK 602 and Ruger No. 1 actions, so no bother.

The more recent CZ 550 Magnum has a +3.8" box, too long for even the 3.6" COL of the SAAMI .458 Lott.

Member JFE in Oz has had his .458 WIN CZ 550 Magnum box front internally reinforced with a steel plate blending into the feed ramp,
for a box length of about 3.65".
When the slope into the feed ramp starts lower on the box front wall, it will definitely have better FN feeding capability.
That length of box will be perfect for either the more powerful SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum or the lesser SAAMI .458 Lott,
if both are allowed the same cartridge overall length and maximum average pressure.
The .458 WIN is the winner, no contest.

Even with that JFE modification, the 500-gr Barnes TSX can still be loaded to 3.78" and crimped on the 5th and last cannelure
for a tight fit in the SAAMI .458 WIN throat, single-shot loaded off the top of the CZ 550 Magnum with shortened magazine.
At 2250 fps it is a bugholer in the .458 WIN.
A very accurate target load,
even if the bullet is so long it might tumble in game.
At 2342 fps it was about 1.5 MOA for 3 shots, with no signs of excess pressure, from my CZ barrel.
A SAAMI .458 Lott cannot be loaded that long with that bullet.
If the .458 Lott could go as fast with that bullet, it could only do so with higher pressure than the .458 WIN.
And that is the truth, not some Lottite fantasy.

Rip ...

I have two new loads to try from "GRACE":

Already I've loaded three of the 465gr semi-hard cast over 75 grs RL-22. They are awaiting trial. I'm expecting around 1550 fps. They are seated longer than the first test (prior to the butt-stock cracks) over 75 grs RL-15 at 2085 fps (corrected to MV). Accuracy was poor. So, I want to slow them under 2000 fps by trying slower powders of about the same amount.

Then another test will be from 74 grs of RL-17 that should give around 1865 fps.

Both at the same 3.31" COL.

I've given that bullet a .350 BC rating that appears conservative based on some of Lyman's numbers for their .458" cast bullets.

Question: Why does Lyman give a higher rating for cast bullets than for jacketed bullets of the approximate same weight? I've always puzzled on that but have never asked them. .350 BC might actually be too optimistic, so I've done ballistic profiles at .265 BC as well. My concern is trajectory... it does make a significant difference past 150 yards. Yet for my use, other than punching holes in paper, I like to be prepared for the occasional longer shot than one at less than 100 yds on game. In either case (.265 BC or .350 BC) there would be plenty of what it takes for LG to +400 yds, so that's not a concern but trajectory is. That means I'll have to try them all the way to 300 to get a trajectory profile and convert that into BC.

I really need a second .458 to do all these various tests!

Then RIP may send me some of his cast 400s for trial as well to determine their BCs.

Can't wait for this covid thing to pass! Now some waiting for critical surgery are dying due to critical Covid-19 patients having priority! Is that just?

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

From the other thread:

I notice that Michael "MR" Robinson does not deny that he does not know his ass from his elbow when it comes to handloading.

gunslinger55, search THE MISSION thread for answers.

MacD37, watch out for that screen door as you exit.

I own a .450 Dakota (superior fore runner of the .450 Rigby Rimless), a .458/.338 Lapua 2.7", a .450 Barnes Supreme,
a .458 Lott, a .450 NE 3.25", a .458/.416 Ruger, a .458 B&M, one each of those chamberings, 7 rifles.
I own seven rifles chambered for the .458 Winchester Magnum,
and two more chambered for its ballistic twin, the .45-2.6"-Sharps Winchester Throated, aka the .45 Elko Magnum.

I have killed water buffalo with a .460 WBY, a .375 H&H, and a .416 Rigby.
I have killed bison with a .404 Jeffery and a .500 A-Square.
I have killed cape buffalo with a .416 Rigby and a .510/.416 Rigby Improved 3-Inch aka .500 Mbogo.
I wounded one cape buffalo at 150 yards with the .500 Mbogo and a hasty shot off of rickety sticks on the side of a termite mound.
The PH was lazy, told me to get ready and shoot my second buffalo
when the buffalo ran through a clearing 150 yards away, to get it over with so he could get back to the bakkie and smoke a cigarette.
RIP Paul.
The buffalo got a flesh wound and one or two drops of blood were found.

I will do future buffalo hunting with the .458 WIN.
400-grainers at +2500 fps and COL less than 3.4".
450-grainers at +2400 fps and COL of 3.6".
480-grainers at 2300 fps and COL of less than 3.6"
500-grainers at 2250 fps and COL of 3.6" and lower pressure than the .458 Lott doing the same.

The .458 WIN has greater magazine capacity than the .460 Wby, .450 Dakota, .450 Ted Williams Thumper (.458/.338 Lapua 2.7"), .458 Ruger, and the me-too .450 Rigby Rimless.
The .458 WIN delivers the above-listed ballistics with less recoil than the above listed fatter-cased cartridges.
They are all at their best with the same ballistics as the .458 WIN is capable of.

Call me the Grandpa Moses of the .458 WIN for all big game.
It is also my favorite varmint cartridge.

Rip ...

Mike, buy a donkey, you did very well here:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree, Mr. gunslinger55.

The .458 WM is mundane and uninteresting.

Plus, it has a checkered past, like the maybe girlfriend whose flirting you rightly refused.

Give me more power and punch.

Just enough is just that, and not always nearly enough for what is needed.

But RIP has it loaded to 3.6" OAL and is doing better than the Lott because of the 458 throat.

Sure you can go to 460 or 500 A2 but a much bigger deal plus the 458 offers much greater potential in the reduced load and cast bullet area.

Not interested in reduced loads and cast bullets.

Just buy a .45-70 if that's what you want.

I used to shoot the Lott, and have taken much heavy African game with it.

But my only .458 these days is a .450 Rigby. More velocity and energy, and at lower pressures, than the Win. Mag. or the Lott.

While you have no interest in reduced loads many big bore shooters do. A 45/70 is basically a lever action gun. It is also much simpler to have a 458 than having a 45/70 and some other 45 bolt action.

Well actually you do have an interest in reduced loads because of how you load your 450 Rigby. However, a 458 Winchester loaded with reduced loads so the drop in KE is the same percentage drop in KE you get with you 450 Rigby reduced loads, becomes a rifle with relatively mild recoil. Also, the accuracy many shooters will seek with such loads is far superior to what one would expect to get from a lever gun. With a bit of load juggling and with bullets lighter than 500 grains you can get the reduced loads to shoot to the same point as maximum 500 grain loads.

I am often amused when reduced loads are discussed and often it is with 375 and up, that on AR and Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum someone with a 416 Rigby with 400 grain bullets at 2400 f/s says they don't believe in reduced loads

Bob,

I feel your pain.
I am piling up the loads too.
Will take at least two rifles to range when I go.
Three would be better.
I will shoot those 400-ish grainer cast bullets in Daisy before considering getting samples to you.
You will have some of my data for comparison of your loadings of same for Grace.

Generally, 2100 fps is considered tops for cast bullet hunting loads.
But 2500 fps has been done accurately with BHN 22 or higher, gas-checked cast bullet.

My latest idea:
Mix half & half Linotype and 1-2-5-92 alloy.
That might be exactly 400-grains with PC-paint and gas check for the Accurate 46-410M,
instead of 406 grains with straight 1-2-5-92.
Might be less brittle than Linotype and heat treatable to harder than Linotype.
475 degrees F for 30 to 60 minutes then 50 degree water drop.
Reportedly WW alloy can go to over 30 BHN with that.
Linotype is supposedly stuck at 22 BHN, not heat-treatable.
Now I gotta go calculate the composition of that 50:50 mixture as an X-X-X-X alloy,
cast some bullets and weigh them.

Rip ...

Rip#3 alloy:
0.5% arsenic
2.5% tin
8% antimony
89% lead.

The Accurate Molds 46-410M might be right on 400 grains, using that alloy, including GC and PC-paint.
If heat-treat hardened and sized to .461", it might be the answer to accurate 2500 fps 400-grain cast bullet needs,
when factory .458/ 400-gr monometal/jacketed bullets cannot be had.

Accurate Molds makes only FN moulds, no round nose or pointy ones.
The minimum FN meplat diameter from Accurate Molds is 0.180", whatever the bullet caliber.
Accurate Molds will make a 100%-of-caliber FN mould for the customer if he so desires a mould of his own design.
Those custom designs become a part of the catalog.

Here is another one from the AM catalog: 46-425PG



In Rip#3 alloy with GC and PC-paint,
I figger it will go 415 grains at +2400 fps.
I have a 2-cavity brass mould for it, on order.
It can be loaded at either just over 3.5" COL or considerably under 3.4" COL:
3.505", 3.370", 3.235" COL
Length of non-bearing diameter is slightly more than half the Bullet Overall Length.
Close !
Accuracy experiment.

Rip ...

It will be interesting to see if those designs are accurate in the 458 throat.

If you have not come across it yet, the Mountain Moulds site is another good source for bullet moulds. You basically design your own mould and pick the material for your blocks. You can specify all kinds of parameters. I’ve not used the service personally but have played around with the design software and it’s very flexible.

JFE,

Funny you should suggest Mountain Molds software for a designer bullet.
https://www.mountainmolds.com/index.htm
I did just that and found that I had designed one essentially like the one I just ordered from Accurate Molds.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/
I have been the full custom route with Brooks' Tru-Bore Moulds, twice.
https://brooksmoulds.com/index.html
Once for a 1400-ish-grain 12-gauge slug, a keg-shaped FN-HB "reversible," my original design:



Next original design by me was for a 900-ish-grain 20-gauge slug:


I once sent a throat slug to Veral Smith of LBT and got back a spectacular 4-cavity aluminum mould to make .396"/ 410-grain LFN GC for my .395-cal wildcats.
http://lbtmolds.com/



Above alloy is Rippalloy, an approximation of Lyman # 2 using Lawrence Brand magnum shot as lead source,
and solder for the tin and antimony sources.
Water dropped it was hard.
Could be heat-treated too.

I have plenty of heavy-bullet FN and RN moulds for the .458-cal rifles.
Bubba Ballistics Laboratories, LTD (very limited) is most interested in finding a speedy and accurate .458"/ 400-ish-grainer with not too bad a BC.
Research is ongoing.
Will resort to a custom mould next if necessary,
buy a donkey.

Good stuff RIP!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

No lipstick on this pig, but it has wings and can make bullets fly faster than from a SAAMI .458 Lott:





Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
No lipstick on this pig, but it has wings and can make bullets fly faster than from a SAAMI .458 Lott:





Rip ...

Nicely done!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Bob,

Buy a donkey for the flowers.
That is a blob of 5020-psi J-B Weld
("Original Cold-Weld Formula Steel Reinforced Epoxy")
that oozed out of the cut off end of the B&C forend during bedding,
which was augmented by more of same J-B Weld smeared over the blob, then sanded sort of smooth,
then painted black,
the gold wings (from a caduceus pin with the snakes on a stick cut off)
and brass .458 WIN case head were glued on with J-B ClearWeld, 5-minute/3900-psi,
and the whole blob painted over with same ClearWeld.
Details provided as a suggestion in case Grace needs some jewelry installed.
Masking tape can be very helpful too.

Rip ...

The stated 3-week turnaround was considerably quicker.

I am thinking that maybe straight Linotype might make a 400-grain target bullet with the above mould supposed to be 425-grains in WW.
Also, 400-grains of Linotype might kill a deer, if it is accurate enough in a .458 WIN.
50% weight retention at 2000 fps impact on meat,
eat right up to the lead fragments ?
X-ray before eating ?

The Accurate 46-410M bullet cast in 50:50 mix of 1-2-5-92 and Linotype:
154 cast, average weight 389.2 grains.
More than a hundred of those were within 1 grain of 389 grains, +/-.
Add 9 grains for GC and PCP: ~ 398 grains +/- 1 grain.
So, another nominal "400-grainer" and might be less brittle than straight Linotype.
That is the same bullet that finishes out at ~ 406-grainer when cast in straight 1-2-5-92 alloy, with GC and PCP, another nominal "400-grainer."
Both can be heat-treated to harder than Linotype, or left softer.

2500 to 2600 fps with 400-grainer is where the .458 WIN meets the .458 Lott,
but the former in 3.4" COL, the latter in 3.6" COL,
so the .458 WIN wins by TKO.

Rip ...

For THE MISSION, copied from "The other thread" nearby, and because I just now realized that
the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum is the GREATEST SHEEP RIFLE EVER! NO CONTEST !




I do not have any action shots of me firing the .458 WIN from prone at varmints, but I have done so.
I have taken both marmot and moose with the .458 WIN.
It is a winner for any application.

Rip ...

quote:

Accurate

you guys are to much fun

stradling,

Buy a donkey for supporting THE MISSION which is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Some may wonder why have a schnable-like blob of epoxy on the forend tip of a Ruger No. 1:







I am going to have to try a bunch of 400-grainers pretty soon or go stir crazy and start wondering why I need anything more powerful than a .375 H&H.

Rip ...

Hi guys;
Looks like your hiking right along.
I got the Spruce King out a few days ago to fondle and think about.
Shooting it is on hold for a while. On March 30 I took a bad fall at work and ripped the entire super spunatus tendon off the humerus head of my left arm. And tore up some other stuff in that shoulder. I had surgery a week ago.
I can barely hold the rifle in my left hand close to my body at waist level. Lord willing Ill be healed up in time for moose hunting this fall. In the mean time I can tinker with it , getting it ready for whatever I may need or want him for.
I have 5 more weeks in the pillow sling . next week I get the skin staples out.

As far as continuing on building on our house, that's changed around some. My wife will be doing a lot more of the work . And some things may not get done this year.

Anyway. Great reading up on what all is going on.

Heal well do what you are told.

Work hard in therapy.

I am recovering from a hand injury it takes a lot of time.

RIP: All those 458 Lott beating 458 Win Mag loads you have fired finally caught up to you. Good reason to shot SAAMI throated Lott. Such keeps strain off the shoulders.

Get well. You are a great draw on the Forum.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
RIP: All those 458 Lott beating 458 Win Mag loads you have fired finally caught up to you. Good reason to shot SAAMI throated Lott. Such keeps strain off the shoulders.

Get well. You are a great draw on the Forum.

I think you were responding to CTF, not RIP.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Got word that our range is preparing for opening as soon as they get permission. They're getting a set of protocols in place and have done a lot of work at the range (shotgun, rifle and pistol) in the meantime - a new roof over the rifle benches as one job done.

Looking forward to the opening.

In the meanwhile I'm looking into the possibility of a spring bear hunt. It usually runs from May 1st to June 15. That would be with my .458 Win Mag Ruger #1. The load is ready and sighted, the same as last fall: 300gr TSX at +/-2778 fps. I've a big coffee can of bacon fat that might stir their juices. However, for about two weeks in May the infamous black flies are out and a real menace. Ya have to be prepared with a head net, long sleeves, gloves and OFF, or its equivalent. My first bear hunt was in May, and that was a lesson I'll never forget!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Mobbing hordes of bugs. Enough to make one wish for 20 below.

I'm looking forward to seeing that load's results on your bear. I know what my results have been, tho mine started out a touch slower @ 2700 fps. I know the bullet will take the stress no problem.

I heard that the new rule when the range open is
every 458 win shooter will have to be at least 6 feet from their rifle

quote:

Originally posted by canuck4570:
I heard that the new rule when the range open is
every 458 win shooter will have to be at least 6 feet from their rifle

And that especially applies if they're not holding onto it tightly enough!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I'm looking forward to seeing that load's results on your bear. I know what my results have been, tho mine started out a touch slower @ 2700 fps. I know the bullet will take the stress no problem.

Thanks CTF! It was your report on using that bullet on bear that inspired me to give them a try.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Cold Trigger Finger,

Sorry to get the BAD NEWS about your shoulder.
Bad rotator cuff tear, surgery, and an arm sofa for a month !
On the bright side: You have possibly greater idle time for a while to rest and support THE MISSION, and it was your left shoulder, not your shootin' shoulder !
I once had a bad fall on ice, landing my full weight on my left shoulder. Luckily I was young and it was not a complete tear.
But I feel YOUR pain !
Godspeed to you in your recovery with the Spruce King ridin' rifle.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
RIP: All those 458 Lott beating 458 Win Mag loads you have fired finally caught up to you. Good reason to shot SAAMI throated Lott. Such keeps strain off the shoulders.

Get well. You are a great draw on the Forum.

Very strange indeed, even if LHeym500 posted before he had his coffee this morning.