Above Selous-esque bullet would be fun at about 1350 fps like Selous used on the Big Five (540-grain paper-patched, hard lead).

Powder-Coat Paint is the new Paper Patch !




We have previously seen here that the Saeco #20 .461"/543-gr FNGC-PCP cast in 92-5-2-1 (above)
was boosted to 2265 fps (5-yard-velocity) by 78.0 grains of AA-2460
in the .458 WIN at 3.600" COL, with 25"-barreled Bobbarrella.
That would be very near 2300 fps MV.

In 23"-barreled Marcella, the goal is just to get to 2200 fps with the 475-gr through 543-gr cast bullets.
Then apply that load data to the 5-dollar bullets in the .458 WIN.

I might size the lead bullets down to .460" for use in the .458"-grooved Marcella.
Or should I leave them at .461" ?

.461" works great in the .459"-grooved .458 WIN rifles I have used so far.

Maybe .461" would be good in the .458"-grooved rifle too, or better.

I have fired some .461" PC-Painted, Linotype, plain base, 487-grain bullets through the .45-2.6"-SWT with .457"-grooved barrel with no ill effects.
I even hit a 100-yard gong with one of those bullets, on my third shot, even though there were no sights or scope on the rifle.

Rip ...

If the 461 fits in the chamber/throat loaded shoot them as is.

Just go full Wildcat and call your good idea of maximizing the 458 WM the 460 Berry!
Think of the retirement riches you will make selling max OAL ammo to the unwashed masses.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
If the 461 fits in the chamber/throat loaded shoot them as is.

Will do.
They fit in the throat.
Might be the ultimate accuracy trick for cast bullets in the SAAMI .458 WIN:
Use a bullet sized to 0.003" bigger diameter than barrel groove diameter.

Rip ...

boom stick,

That is silly.
The SAAMI .458 WIN ain't no stinking wildcat,
even if it is used in a rifle with a magazine box
longer than on your .30-06.
Thanks for supporting THE MISSION.

Rip ...

Maybe the ammo could be marketed just as 458 Long-Col, with the packet showing the shadow of a tall, lean hunter.

The 458wm is enough as is. Has always been minus the human errors. Rip is just showing us that and how to make it “better” should you so choose.

That's right, a SAAMI .458 WIN is plenty.
Bubba can mark his cardboard ammo boxes "LongCOL" with a Sharpie.

.458 WIN deniers just can't handle the truth,
as more than a few good men would say.

My BFFL just had his chest cracked,
I gotta go visit.
He and I are the last two surviving members of
the Fearsome Foursome of KY high-school boys cross country champs of 1971.
We were class AA but ran faster than AAA,
would have beat them too.
The other two members of the Fearsome Foursome dropped dead before us !
R.I.P.
When one more of us goes,
there will be only one,
just like there is only one .458 Winchester Magnum.

When I get back from visiting and the weather breaks,
I will switch from Hornady brass to Winchester brass,
and use the WLRM primer instead of the F215.
Marcella wants Winchester components.
Just bought another 8 pounds of AA-2230.

Rip ...

quote:

and use the WLRM primer instead of the F215.

I was forced to switch from F215Match primers to WLRM several years ago due to . ? . ? . hoarding/"Obama"/Federal-production-lows?
I've been very happy with WLRM and do not need to go back. I use them in everything from 270 and 308 up through 500 AccRel. Good ignition never hurts, especially with some bullet designs using light-engraving pressures, like GSC and Hammer.
The WLRM seem to work fine in 243, too. Go figure.

The only issue that might arise would be primers that do not seat well in a particular brand of brass. So far, so good.

My best to you and your best friend for life sir. Carry on strong.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
The only issue that might arise would be primers that do not seat well in a particular brand of brass. So far, so good.

There is hope that Winchester primers will fit Winchester brass, nowadays,
unlike back when the saboteurs were loading the factory .458 Win.Mag. ammo,
once upon a time.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
My best to you and your best friend for life sir. Carry on strong.

Thanks.
When he was extubated, he rasped out to the respiratory therapist who pulled the tube:
"Will I be able to sing now? I never could before."
That right there was a good indication that his brain was back to normal.
Maybe even better than before general anesthesia.
That joke was more memorable than most of his attempts at humor.

I will try to get in at least one day of late muzzleloader deer season.
Using a .50-cal sabot with a .458-cal bullet, an easy choice.

Rip ...

I hope you had a good visit. I've been absent for quite a bit. Good to see everyone soldiering along. .

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I hope you had a good visit. I've been absent for quite a bit. Good to see everyone soldiering along. .

CTF,

Good to see you supporting THE MISSION.
With your knowledge of the lumber industry, have you ever heard the term "lumberjackass" applied to anyone?
Like someone who begins felling trees with chain saws, at the break of day, soon as the rain lets up, on opening day of late muzzleloader deer season?
Any lumberjack doing such a thing is a lumberjackass IMHO.

I am thinking of getting a copyright on the term if you have never heard it used before.



Above was on bordering property next to where I was hunting. Not freshly cut but possibly the spoor of a lumberjackass.

But wait ! There is a buck rub in the background above. Close-up of that:



I found half a dozen rubs both bigger and smaller than the above, while scouting for lumberjackass,
toting my muzzleloader.



Lots of buck rubs, hopefully not just lumberjackass trail blazing.

Rip ...

Having gone almost 3 days without a post, before my reply to CTF (buy a buy a donkey),
it is catchup time:

Six different cast bullets that fit in the throat of a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum will follow below.
There is even a .461"/525-grain FNGC-hardcast that can not be loaded to much more than 3.385".
That will work in any .458 WIN.

First, a 475-grainer:



All of these will be reference dummies for setting a seater die for depth of seating.
Actual ammo may or may not be crimped so strongly, at preference of handloader.
Lee Factory Crimp Die was used on these,
and it is possible to use that for barely more than taking the flare out of the case mouth,
by backing the die out of the press a bit.
Like in the first one below:

170 pages. 3 X 170 = 510 and Winchester soft point ammo was 510 grains.

About 1971 the 500 FMJ Winchester ammo did 1960 f/s and that was on the Ohler Model 10 with the printed circuit on the small paper screens. That was 22" barrel M70 and they were Super Grade on the Floor Plate and super slick action. I had two of them. One was very very dark and the other was very blonde. At that tine in Australia they cost slightly less than Mark V Deluxe in 300 Wby. The 375 M70 was midway in price between the 458 and the XTR in 270.

I melted the lead out if a 500 grain FMJ Winchester and the jacket weighed a bit over 220 grains. Of course some lead would have remained but certainly not very much.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
I hope you had a good visit. I've been absent for quite a bit. Good to see everyone soldiering along. .

CTF,

Good to see you supporting THE MISSION.
With your knowledge of the lumber industry, have you ever heard the term "lumberjackass" applied to anyone?
Like someone who begins felling trees with chain saws, at the break of day, soon as the rain lets up, on opening day of late muzzleloader deer season?
Any lumberjack doing such a thing is a lumberjackass IMHO.

I am thinking of getting a copyright on the term if you have never heard it used before.



Above was on bordering property next to where I was hunting. Not freshly cut but possibly the spoor of a lumberjackass.

But wait ! There is a buck rub in the background above. Close-up of that:



I found half a dozen rubs both bigger and smaller than the above, while scouting for lumberjackass,
toting my muzzleloader.



Lots of buck rubs, hopefully not just lumberjackass trail blazing.

Rip ...

I never heard of one. But in Alaska we are called Loggers. Or the term that depicts a man's actual profession.
Like myself. I was a logger then I Became a timber faller.
Looks like the guy fell the tree . limbed it and yarded it out. Leaving a clear view of the buck rub.

Being the stump looks kinda weird . imo your cleared for take off calling him a dumber lumberjackass.!!

Mike,

Thanks for the numerology,
and the nostalgic reminiscence about those old M70 .458 WINs you let get away in the foolishness of your youth.
Me too.
I'll keep an eye peeled for some old .458 WIN memorabilia for tears in the beers.

Rip ...

CTF,

That is a good one, dumBerjacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts

Rip ...

I have learned how to remove the front sight from a scrap barrel taken off a CZ .458 Lott,
using a bench vise, a propane torch, a ball-peen hammer, and a large screwdriver.
Marcella the .458 WIN is playing dress-up, trying on banded front sight ramps, just for fun:



That is a dandy one that only weighs about 1.5 oz,
installed with J-B Weld instead of solder.
No hood desired. The front sight bead inserts are easy to replace.


Rip ...

JB Weld is Great stuff !
And it's not a steel snob like silver solder.
JB is an equal opportunity adherer

CTF,

Thanks for the help with getting this thread to 510 pages as Mike suggested.
Yep,
who needs solder if you have J-B Weld ?

The .458 Lott barrel that this front sight came off of will be used either as a cheater bar or rebar in some backyard patio project.

Rip ...

A little white bead was handy for starts. Parts is parts:

The NECG rear peep for Weaver base weighs 3 oz, adjustable for windage and elevation and QD to get out of the way for scope.
The minimalist yet functionalist CZ banded front ramp and bead: 1.5 oz.
Iron sights add 4.5 oz.
So the 7 lbs 10 oz rifle with scope bases becomes a 7 lbs 14.5 oz rifle iron-sighted,
rounding to nearest ounce still one ounce under 8 pounds.



Peep adjusted to maximum elevation above.
Feels comfortable there for use of iron sights, will see how it feels on the face to shoot.

Rip ...

Here is how Marcella looks for the iron-sight shooting trial:



Notice the new sling swivels on the home-made sling.
Nickle plated to match the studs on Marcella.
Fashion accessories coordination.
Girls just gotta have fun.

Rip ...

Improvement to the rear peep may be possible ?
Definitely want to get a sourdough/patridge front sight insert, tall gold one to be filed as needed.

Rip ...

For The MISSION:

Due to winter weather conditions having settled in here for the past three weeks, I've not visited the range nor my usual hunting ground. The hunting area is an hour north, which is usually more severe than here, and the range is almost an hour south but on the escarpment north of Lake Ontario which gets dumped on due to the lake effect. So I'm setting on unfired loads for the Ruger #1.

Yet I thought some added input on load development might be of interest since I've published the results but not the load itself.

In my blogs (a couple of recent ones) I've shared results from several bullets, including the 400gr Barnes-X (I still have a half-handful). That load was fired on June 11, along with some 500s, 450s, a 480 DGX, a 300 TSX and a reduced load for the 405gr Rem. The result for the 400-X was quite remarkable, not only as to MV but from the powder used.

The Barnes' manual #4 doesn't include a 400 TSX as they don't make it. So I resorted to their #3 where there is the 400gr FXB tested in both a .458 WIN and the Lott. So I checked the Lott data fired from a 26" barrel. No COL is given, but I assumed it to be 3.6". The load I developed for the 400-X was 3.61" - about the same. But they didn't show a load using H4198, as they did for the .458 Win Mag. So I checked P.O. Ackley, Vol. 1 for the .458 Win, and sure enough there a load is given for 4198, which I assumed to be IMR as that was prior to H4198 being available. Knowing that today's H is a tad slower than IMR, and that the Winchester still has more "freebore" than the Lott at 3.6", I added 1 grain over Auckley's load at 78 grains and got 2590 fps (corrected), whereas Auckley showed 2556 fps from 77 grains.

Here's the interesting part (at least for myself): 2590 fps/78 grains H4198 = 2590 fps, or 33.2 fps per grain. I then multiplied that by 77 grains and got the exact same result as PO Auckley at 2556 fps!!

78 grains of H4891 was max in my rifle. On June 11, I made this note:"max" based on case head expansion.

Auckley's Vol.1 is ancient by now, but what is the chance that I should be getting the precise results as Auckley if I had used 77 grains H4198, Remington brass, WLRM primers from a 24" barrel when none of that data is provided in Auckley's manual. The only data given is powder and charge weight!

Thought some might be interested. BTW, 2590 fps = 5957 ft-lbs and considered safe in my rifle. But I'll likely go 77 grains in the future.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
... The Barnes' manual #4 doesn't include a 400 TSX as they don't make it. So I resorted to their #3 where there is the 400gr FXB tested in both a .458 WIN and the Lott. So I checked the Lott data fired from a 26" barrel. No COL is given, but I assumed it to be 3.6". The load I developed for the 400-X was 3.61" - about the same. But they didn't show a load using H4198, as they did for the .458 Win Mag. So I checked P.O. Ackley, Vol. 1 for the .458 Win, and sure enough there a load is given for 4198, which I assumed to be IMR as that was prior to H4198 being available. Knowing that today's H is a tad slower than IMR, and that the Winchester still has more "freebore" than the Lott at 3.6", I added 1 grain over Ackley's load at 78 grains and got 2590 fps (corrected), whereas Ackley showed 2556 fps from 77 grains ...
Thought some might be interested. BTW, 2590 fps = 5957 ft-lbs and considered safe in my rifle. But I'll likely go 77 grains in the future.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Great data, Bob, as usual from you.
Surprising indeed in powder used, and with the old 400-gr. X-bullet now discontinued.
H4198 has excellent ThermoBallisticIndependence,
and it is my pick for any bullet of less than 400-gr weight.
Up to and including 400-grainers now !
But with maximal COL, OK with a Ruger No.1 ! 3.610" !
Proof of how LongCOL with a .458 WIN chamber just works !
Better than a .458 Lott with SAAMI restriction, beat by a .458 WIN unchained.

That COL will still work in Marcella M70 with her 3.63" magazine box length.

For reference, and for those with magazine repeaters like my Ruger M77 Mk II with a box magazine easily handling 3.395" COL:

.458 Winchester MAGNUM
AA-2230 at 80.0 grains
GSC HV 400-grainer
COL 3.395"
Hornady brass
F-215 primer
5-yard velocity in 25" barrel = 2515.4 fps average for 5 shots, with st. dev. of 1 fps for 5 shots !!!
MV = 2527 fps in the 25" Shilen barrel.
55 degrees F ambient temperature.

That is the load I deer hunted with this year.
Would you believe it was good enough to put meat in the freezer ?

Rip ...

LEE 459"/405-gr/hollow base used in old TrapDoor rifles ?
Cast in hard alloy, powder-coat painted, sized to .461", might be lighter than 400-grains but might be a good one for low-velocity squirrel-barking loads
in the ultra-modern .458 WIN.

Eventually it could be possible to reverse engineer the ballistic equivalent of a muzzleloader with Minie' ball,
to expand the versatility of the most versatile cartridge ever: .458 Winchester Magnum.

Rip ...

I have no experience with that bullet but Rip, i fear the hollow base expansion in the throat and then back down into the lands is not a great idea for the .458WM I think the base would strip in the throat/lands transition. I chose the Gas Check base and what the heck out of it with either IMR 4759 or AA 2015.
Since this is for the mission, you might give it a try!

Fury01,

What is a good use of IMR-4759 in the .458 WIN ?

Any pet charges of IMR-4759 with any bullets you like ?

I want to use IMR-4759 with filler for reduced loads.

I gotta start somewhere.

Please help.

Rip ...