quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Since I am proven apprentice on many things Bubba:
Rip, put a coat of fingernail polish on the top of that die, you will know on the first stroke of hitting it. Cheap, replaceable, and repeatable.
I'm available for sharing that Buffalo Trace...

SHAZZAM! That is a great idea.
I was thinking I would use a black Sharpie marker,
but some bright red or blue nail polish would be better. Or passionate purple, or gothic black, or GREEN.
Thanks.
Watch out or boomstick will be calling you a tall midget too.

Rip ...

Would be pleased to be included in any group containing Sir Rip of 458WM fame. I have a feeling the work you have done here will outlast any issue of personal disparagement.

I was going to say use smoke, like double rifle builders...but hey, this is a bubba. Watch out RIP. Whenever a Bubba gets a file in his hands he is inexplicably filled with a surge of misplaced confidence and declares himself a gunsmith.
Being a son of a machinist, a marker will do just fine. Dry erase is better and won’t kill as many brain cells. Use all your spare discretionary brain cells for Buffalo Trace.

boomstick,
I am going with the fingernail polish.
I just realized that my custom bullet file-trim die can still be used as a .45 ACP FL-decapper die.
It still has at least 3 threads left in the top of it.
Secure enough to re-install the decapper assembly.

Rip ...

NEW ! HAWKEYE® HUNTER

Spec sheet for the .300 WinMag chambering, biggest so far in this new model:

https://www.ruger.com/products...pecSheets/57109.html



"Non-rotating, Mauser-type controlled round feed extractor is among the most positive case extraction systems ever invented, and features a fixed blade-type ejector that positively ejects empty cases as the bolt is moved fully rearward.

Hinged, solid-steel floorplate for easy unloading without having to chamber each cartridge. Features an engraved Ruger logo and patented latch that is flush with the trigger guard to avoid accidental dumping of cartridges.

20 MOA Picatinny rail secured with four, #8-40 screws for increased long-range elevation capabilities overtop the traditional integral scope mounts that are machined directly on the solid-steel receiver.

Three-position safety is easily accessible and allows the shooter to lock the bolt or to load and unload the rifle with the safety engaged.

Ergonomically pleasing stock has rounded contours along the barrel, on the bottom of the stock and on top of the pistol grip and wrap-around checkering on grip and forend.

Free-floated, cold hammer-forged stainless steel barrel with 5R Rifling at minimum bore and groove dimensions, minimum headspace and centralized chamber.

Radial-port muzzle brake significantly reduces felt recoil.

The LC6™ trigger features smooth, crisp performance right out of the box for increased accuracy on the range or in the field.

Rugged, one-piece, stainless steel bolt.
Also includes: studs for mounting sling swivels."



I am hoping that Picatinny is available for retro-fitting.
With the option of removing it to use the integral Ruger scope bases,
I might be less likely to glue it on with J-B WELD.
However I might devise a recoil stop for the underside front of it,
and then cut it into two pieces for a Double-Seyfried-Schtick with thumb cut.
There appear to be lateral flanges that partially cover the sides of the Ruger "square bridges" front and rear,
and that is a strong feature.
Used with LOW rings, it might be nice.









Rip ...

The Hawkeye Hunter .300 WinMag would make a nice .458 WIN-SAAMI with a simple re-barrel,
and could be easily opened up for a .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6".
Recall that the opening up is done all to the rear, no weakening of action:








Now that I find the Barnes .458/500-grain TSX to be useless for game shooting, in any rifle,
I find the 3.6" magazine box most appealing.

The 500-gr TSX is a proven bullet for accuracy/target shooting from a 1:14" twist barrel at 2250 to 2350 fps at 3.780 COL,
from a .458 WIN-SAAMI chamber.
It could still be single-loaded in a rifle with 3.6" box,
for plinking.

Rip ...

It's better than any cup&core 500-grainer or 550-grainer softpoint. Save your Hydros for the elephant.


Rip ...

I remember that article. Easy LongCOL on the Ruger.
Love the “adaptive reuse” of our new bullet file and trim die to load Ammo Rip. Darn Green of you!!
Carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Barnes Bullets needs to get rid of the 500-grain TSX and make this the new line-up of bullet weights in .458-caliber:

300
350
400
450

That makes much more sense than current line-up:
300 350 450 500

Rip ...

I agree

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The Hawkeye Hunter .300 WinMag would make a nice .458 WIN-SAAMI with a simple re-barrel,
and could be easily opened up for a .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6".
Recall that the opening up is done all to the rear, no weakening of action:








Now that I find the Barnes .458/500-grain TSX to be useless for game shooting, in any rifle,
I find the 3.6" magazine box most appealing.

The 500-gr TSX is a proven bullet for accuracy/target shooting from a 1:14" twist barrel at 2250 to 2350 fps at 3.780 COL,
from a .458 WIN-SAAMI chamber.
It could still be single-loaded in a rifle with 3.6" box,
for plinking.

Rip ...

Very nice Ron.

Did you fit the magazine box from the M77 MK II Magnum Rifle or have a box modified?

Thanks,

Looks like a simple barrel setback of 0.0600”, not sure how many threads that’d be (at least 2, perhaps 3?) would allow the 300 PRC finish reamer to completely clean up the 300 WinMag chamber.
Also just checked and Hornady recommends minimum 1:10” twist for 212gr ELD-X and 225gr ELD-M bullets...
Most interesting...

That Ruger Project was a Dave Scovill project turning a Ruger 77 Mark II from I think 300 WM to a 375 H&H. Yes he used a 375 length factory box from Ruger. His aim was to have a slimmer, lighter 375 than Ruger sold from the factory at the time. He was well satisfied with the result.
All from memory of course as that copy is long gone from the reading pile.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Looks like a simple barrel setback of 0.0600”, not sure how many threads that’d be (at least 2, perhaps 3?) would allow the 300 PRC finish reamer to completely clean up the 300 WinMag chamber.
Also just checked and Hornady recommends minimum 1:10” twist for 212gr ELD-X and 225gr ELD-M bullets...
Most interesting...

Ooh La La ! Turning a .300 WIN Hawkeye Hunter into a .300 PRC Hawkeye Hunter would be interesting.
Barrel setback, rechamber, and action lengthening, as above.

Ditto what Fury01 said.
A gunsmith working at a Ruger manufacturing plant did that for Scovill, IIRC.
They used the sheetmetal box out of a .375 H&H RSM.
That is the only part needed for the conversion, IIRC.
Parts is parts.
I might be able to fabricate one myself, but I would only undertake such an endeavor with a bastard file in hand,
as boom stick well knows.
I would be most interested in having it done to Alderella Shilen-Ruger the .458 WIN-SAAMI,
to convert her to .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6".
That would be akin to a religious conversion, for THE MISSION.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Looks like a simple barrel setback of 0.0600”, not sure how many threads that’d be (at least 2, perhaps 3?) would allow the 300 PRC finish reamer to completely clean up the 300 WinMag chamber.
Also just checked and Hornady recommends minimum 1:10” twist for 212gr ELD-X and 225gr ELD-M bullets...
Most interesting...

Ooh La La ! Turning a .300 WIN Hawkeye Hunter into a .300 PRC Hawkeye Hunter would be interesting.
Barrel setback, rechamber, and action lengthening, as above.

Ditto what Fury01 said.
A gunsmith working at a Ruger manufacturing plant did that for Scovill, IIRC.
They used the sheetmetal box out of a .375 H&H RSM.
That is the only part needed for the conversion, IIRC.
Parts is parts.
I might be able to fabricate one myself, but I would only undertake such an endeavor with a bastard file in hand,
as boom stick well knows.
I would be most interested in having it done to Alderella Shilen-Ruger the .458 WIN-SAAMI,
to convert her to .458 WIN LongCOL 3.6".
That would be akin to a religious conversion, for THE MISSION.

Rip ...

Especially in a 338 PRC,
Oh la-la (squared).

I'm thinking 213grain Hammer Hunter at 3000-3100fps.
Yes, that would be Oh la-la squared in a standard Ruger rifle, CRF, stainless, plus good recoil pad at 14".

416Tanzan,

You and Jim both got it bad for the PRC.
I cured myself of the need for either Jim's .300 PRC or your .338 PRC.
I have the .264 Ripmoor and the .458 WinRuger both on the Ruger case.
Selous said that caliber pair would do it all.
The .264 Ripmoor was done on a Winchester M70 and the .458 WinRuger was done on a MkX Mauser.
How screwed up is that ?
Should have done them on Ruger actions, of course.

My .308/.338 Lapua (.300 Lapua) is on a CZ 550 Magnum, and that is a good thing.
I would use a CZ in a B&C stock with fluted, stainless barrel if I "wanted" a "PRC-unlimited."
I have three .338 Lapua rifles too. a Dakota Longbow, a Savage, and a CZ 550 Magnum that is begging to be turned into a .500 Jeffery just for laughs.

Back to the .458/480-grainers ... for THE MISSION, thanks.

Rip ...

416Tanzan,

Thanks for the Hammer Bullets mention.



https://hammerbullets.com

Do you know what they might charge for a custom order of "any caliber and weight" of Hammer Hunter bullets?
Or, if they stock a .458 of any caliber, I might could use a bastard file on them too.

Rip ...

Maybe I need to make the 480-grain XTSX Buffalo Buster a wee bit longer and enlarge the hollow point with a step-drill
until I get it back down to 480 grains weight,
for THE MISSION.
No sense letting a .458/500-grain TSX-Meat-Tumbler go to waste.
Every rifleman needs to be able to make his own bullets, usually from lead, sometimes from an overstock of copper.

Rip ...

just use a countersink to make a 90 degree cup point to encourage expansion.
https://www.amazon.com/Counter...ativeASIN=B01LX87BDA

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
416Tanzan,

Thanks for the Hammer Bullets mention.



https://hammerbullets.com

Do you know what they might charge for a custom order of "any caliber and weight" of Hammer Hunter bullets?
Or, if they stock a .458 of any caliber, I might could use a bastard file on them too.

Rip ...

They are a kind of cross between a CEB and a GSC.
The Hammer bullets use a sinusoidal driving band as an improvement over GSC for slightly better BC and ease of loading and tuning. The hollow points are to intended to maintain top accuracy. The front end blows out radiating petals like the CEB raptors, leaving a flat-nose bore-width solid to penetrate deeply and exit while producing wider-than-might-be-assumed trauma because of the flat-nose.

Costs? You will have to write them. As a vet you normally get 10% discount.
They said that they are willing to do a lighter .416" but I don't need to order any .416 bullets this year. I'm currently trying out and doing load development in .243, .270, .308, and .338. "Rat calibers."

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
just use a countersink to make a 90 degree cup point to encourage expansion.
https://www.amazon.com/Counter...ativeASIN=B01LX87BDA

"Mutiple Application - Ideal for wooden planks,fiberboard,particle board,plywood,plastic,alumiumn board ,pcb board and more"

boom stick,
I get the idea, thanks, from those wood-drilling countersink bits, of course better would be something meant for drilling steel.
The uni-bit/step drill is capable, and the beginning of it is 1/8" diameter, and it has a 90* (or close to it) countersink leading into each step.
The 1/8" initial portion ("self-starting tip") would be a nice pilot for the remnant hole that is 0.350" deep. Idiot proof for staying centered.
Enlarging the hole to 0.250" diameter on the 0.332" diameter meplat would be nice,
stopping with the countersink at 0.250" diameter.

Rip ...

Hammer Bullets shall be taken under advisement.

.458 Cal-402g Sledge Hammer:
This 400g class Sledge Hammer will work in the slow twist old rifles as well as more modern 458’s. 1/4″ hollow point for rapid deformation to a min caliber frontal area with 90% weight retention and deep penetration.

.458 Cal-447g Sledge Hammer:
This .458 caliber Sledge Hammer has a 1/4″ hollow point to give the nose profile enough taper to feed reliably and deform rapidly to a minimum full caliber with 90% retained weight. The large nose dia will allow these bullets to work well in lever actions with tube magazines.

They do not have any pics of the two .458 bullets there,
but here is a pic of a .416-cal Sledge Hammer, 400-grainer:



" .416 Cal-400g Sledge Hammer

Recommended twist rate is 1-16″ or faster

Bullet length is 1.68″

Bullet weight is 400g

Recommended use: Big game hunting"

And it would probably be a tumbler in meat too.
Surely the .458-cal 402-grainer would be short enogh to be stable after impact.
Maybe the .458/447-grainer too ?

Rip ...

I think that the 402grain sledgeHammer may be close to an ideal all-around bullet in .458".
(In fact, you are better off in .458" than I currently am in .416", where they need to develop something around 325 grains. I just don't need any bullets for a while in .416 with oodles of 350TTSX and a box of GSC 330's.)

With a length of 1.33" they have a stability factor of 4.82 in 14"twist at 2500fps and 5578-ft# muzzle energy. That 4.8 is VERY high, very stable, far beyond the recommended minimum of 1.6 for dangerous game. The sectional Density of .274 is fine when one considers that the remaining flat-nose-cylinder solid will be about 360 grains. And the missing petals will be cutting up lungs and tissue.

You should be able to push them at 2500+ fps in the 458Win. The Hammers have a low engraving pressure so that they can often be loaded 100fps faster than regular bullets.

As for the 447gn SledgeHammer, at 2350fps 5480 ft# in a 14" twist barrel, it has an SD of .304 and a stability factor of 3.79. No, it shouldn't tumble in meat, if McCourry's tests showed anything. Someone might prefer the 447gn for buffalo as fitting closer to traditional norms, but I would be happy with the 402gn on Mzee Mbogo.

416Tanzan,
Buy a donkey for the bullet length too, excellent.
Boutique bullet companies galore!
Indeed the .458/402-grain Sledge Hammer is a proper treatment for 400-grain monometal hollowpoint deficiency.

Rip ...

An adventure in converting muzzle loader bullets to breech loader bullets, and for smokeless, centerfire, metallic cartridges too !



Above pictured are hard lead alloy with soft lead weights given for reference.

A casting session with two moulds in tandem, the shorter bullet had a better performance in filling out the mould.
After the first three of the FN they were all good.

Maybe just a lack of skill with a ladle on my part, but only two out of three of my Gibbs bullets were keepers.
About the worst I have ever done.

Cast at about 700 degrees, if a little frosty looking, no worries, the Harbor Freight Red will make them shine.

In converting soft lead bullets for BP to hard lead bullets for smokeless,
weights are lighter and diameters are greater with the hard lead.
How fortunate !
Lengths are same for both at 1.220" +/- a couple thou,
1.22" rounded to certain for the Lyman "PH".
The Gibbs Muzzleloader bullet was 1.450".
1.45" in two diffferent alloys.

Rip ...

I plan on trying the 480-grain XTSX Buffalo Buster as is before trying any fancy nose drilling.
Just going to load them all up with 77.0 grains of AA-2460 at about 3.570" COL in Bobbarrella.
That was a most uniform 2292 fps MV with the Hornady 480-gr DGX loaded at 3.340" COL.
Then I will have to get out the bullet trap and see if they expand at all, or just act like laser-straight super penetrators.

Goldie will just get some AA-5744 sufficient to get over 1600 fps with the 486-grain and 543-grain cast bullets.
Pretty fast for a Selous-Quigley load.

After that sight-in, Goldie will specialize in soft lead at less than 1400 fps, using duplexed BP
Blackhorn 209, and reduced smokeless loads.

Hi-vel hardcast loads will be limited to .459"-grooved barrels with bullets sized to .461".
For now.
I already have a winner with the 540-grainer,
need one with the 480-grain hardball at about 2150 fps also.
Rip ...

How would a 458 go loaded with balls. I think I remember years ago reading n article about a bloke touting the 444 Marlin as the 'everything gun" and he had a load with bore size balls.

Mike,

Thanks for ringing THE MISSION bell.
Recall that we used 18.5 grains of Blue Dot under three .451"/140-grain lead balls stacked in a .458 WIN.

That shoots into your hat size at 25 yards.
I did not chronograph for fear of destroying another instrument.
About like .410 shotgun.



I never tried any lube cookies there, thankfully.

I am now considering powder-coat-painting those same lead balls and shooting them as one-ball loads,
with something like 40 grains of AA-5744 or 50 grains of Blackhorn 209.

Red Death Balls for squirrels and such.
Anything the .444 Marlin can do, the .458 WIN or .45-100 SWT can do better.

Rip ...

you could countersink your softer cast bullets if you wanted to expedite expansion. Think of it as counter intelligence

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
just use a countersink to make a 90 degree cup point to encourage expansion.
https://www.amazon.com/Counter...ativeASIN=B01LX87BDA

"Mutiple Application - Ideal for wooden planks,fiberboard,particle board,plywood,plastic,alumiumn board ,pcb board and more"

boom stick,
I get the idea, thanks, from those wood-drilling countersink bits, of course better would be something meant for drilling steel.
The uni-bit/step drill is capable, and the beginning of it is 1/8" diameter, and it has a 90* (or close to it) countersink leading into each step.
The 1/8" initial portion ("self-starting tip") would be a nice pilot for the remnant hole that is 0.350" deep. Idiot proof for staying centered.
Enlarging the hole to 0.250" diameter on the 0.332" diameter meplat would be nice,
stopping with the countersink at 0.250" diameter.

Rip ...

RIPeroonie
Have you paperpatched your balls?
You might enjoy the twisting of your balls as they shoot out
You may find that you shoot farther as well as increased accuracy with your spinning paper patched balls.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Mike,

Thanks for ringing THE MISSION bell.
Recall that we used 18.5 grains of Blue Dot under three .451"/140-grain lead balls stacked in a .458 WIN.

That shoots into your hat size at 25 yards.
I did not chronograph for fear of destroying another instrument.
About like .410 shotgun.



I never tried any lube cookies there, thankfully.

I am now considering powder-coat-painting those same lead balls and shooting them as one-ball loads,
with something like 40 grains of AA-5744 or 50 grains of Blackhorn 209.

Red Death Balls for squirrels and such.
Anything the .444 Marlin can do, the .458 WIN or .45-100 SWT can do better.

Rip ...

same concept but with a “twist”

here are some .458” round balls that you could shoot as is or resize and patch for more grip when you twist
http://hawkbullets.com/muzzleloading.html

I thought you would be able to use four balls which would mean three and half of them inside the case, so about 1.6" of the case taken up.

4 x 145 grains = 580 grain load

Would remaining powder space get them up to 1200 f/s.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Red Death Balls for squirrels and such.
Anything the .444 Marlin can do, the .458 WIN or .45-100 SWT can do better.

Rip ...

Would they have any application in following up wounded leopard etc, in the event a shotgun with buckshot was not on hand?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
here are some .458” round balls that you could shoot as is or resize and patch for more grip when you twist
http://hawkbullets.com/muzzleloading.html

Looks like .457"-458" Hawk bullets in .50-cal sabots.
No use.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
I thought you would be able to use four balls which would mean three and half of them inside the case, so about 1.6" of the case taken up.

4 x 145 grains = 580 grain load

Would remaining powder space get them up to 1200 f/s.

Mike,
Half of your math is off: 0.451" x 4 = 1.804", not 1.6".
Accounting for the thickness of the base, that would leave only about a half inch for powder column and wad. No good.

Finally ! Something the .458 Lott would be good for, ball & shot loads.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Red Death Balls for squirrels and such.
Anything the .444 Marlin can do, the .458 WIN or .45-100 SWT can do better.

Rip ...

Would they have any application in following up wounded leopard etc, in the event a shotgun with buckshot was not on hand?

Well, a 3-ball load would be better than spitting at the leopard, inside of 25 yards only.

Rip ...