THE MISSION trail is more than a third complete.
The nonbeliever with no comprehension of the capabilities of the .458 WIN is the rare bird now.

The foolish few cling to ignorance.
Some think that a .458 Lott in a 3.6" box can beat a .458 WIN in a 3.6" box,
when both are loaded to the same pressure.
IMPOSSIBLE !

It has been a long time since a .458 WIN denier has raised his head and been whack-a-moled.
We are making progress as missionaries.
The ranks of true believers are growing.
Thanks to THE MISSION of enlightenment.

Rip ...

Rip
Missionary work is never done. Since man chose to be a fallen creature by our craven desire for self power, the power of ignorance, darkness, inexorably grows.
So keep the faith Brother Rip and keep the light of the magnificent 458WM shining.

Amen, Brother Fury01.
I am working on another sermon about the road to .458 WIN Heaven. Doing good has no end.

If the Lyman 457121 "PH" casting at about .456"/480-gr in 50:50 WW-Pb is the wunderbullet for BP shooting in the .45-2.6"-SWT with .457"-grooved barrel,
then here is the wunderbullet for smokeless in
in all the .459"-grooved barrels of the .458 WIN and .45-2.6"-SWT:

Has anyone chambered a 458 Win in a Sharps rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Has anyone chambered a 458 Win in a Sharps rifle?

Hi boomstick,

Totally unnecessary since the .45-2.6"-Sharps-Winchester-Throated is a FLANGED .458 WIN.
Starline .45-2.6" brass for that is off the shelf and is only about 2 grains of water bigger than the Hornady .458 WIN 2.5" brass.

Extractor for flanged/rimmed cartridge in Sharps 1874: Would it work on a belted cartridge?
Hence the .458 WIN Flanged version: .45-2.6"-SWT

However there has been built a 50 BMG in a custom, over-sized Sharps that maybe they put a Ruger No.1-type extractor into ?
IIRC, they only used BP in that 50 BMG Sharps.

Any .45-70 Govt. single shot or double rifle can be re-chambered to .45-2.6"-SWT.
A recently manufactured Ruger No.1 with .459"-grooved barrel will handle any .458 WIN load moved into the 2.6" case.

Rip ...

Verily I say unto the pilgrims of the .458 WIN,
the burning bush spoke also to William Ellis Metford.

He was born October 4, 1824, and died October 14, 1899.

He developed a hollow-base military bullet of improved shape and showed it to Mr. Pritchett of the British Small Arms Committee,
and it was adopted in 1852 as the "Pritchett Bullet."
In 1852 he was experimenting at shooting 1200-yard targets with his muzzleloaders.
In 1853 he developed an improved version of an American rifle scope made by James of Utica, NY,
thus the earlier work of Isaac Newton came back to England.
Before 1854 he was experimenting with a hardened-lead, flat-based, cylindrical, expanding bullet.
He was the civil engineer who eventually surpassed the work of his mechanical engineer peer, Joseph Whitworth.
They both worked initially with .450-bore rifles.

In 1862 Metford started entering tournaments and winning. In 1863 he was using a .451"-bore "small-bore" muzzleloader at Wimbledon,
having surpassed the Whitworth rifles in several preceding competitions.

By 1865 he perfected and British-patented his first system of shallow rifling (.004" depth of groove) and hardened lead bullets.
This lesser-fouling, 5-grooved "Enfield" rifling was quite a bit like the current 5R.

By 1870 he had perfected an even better system for reducing BP fouling, his "segmental" rifling with 7-groove, smoothly curved, shallow grooving.
He also developed a method to the madness of variable twist.
A John Amber article in the GUN DIGEST 8th Edition 1954, detailed a twist on a Gibbs-Metford-Farquharson match rifle chambered for the .461 Gibbs No.1:
1:36" at breech increasing to 1:17" at muzzle.

Men like Metford, Whitworth, Alexander Henry, and John Rigby pioneered the transition to .450-bore military and sporting rifles.
They killed the fetish for "over-half-inch-bore."

Rip ...

Metford and George Gibbs were teaming up on muzzleloaders by 1865.
By 1870 they were working on breechloaders with drawn brass that became the .461 Gibbs No.1.
By 1874 the Gibbs-Metford-Farquharson match rifles in .461 Gibbs No.1 were making waves at Wimbledon.
The .461 Gibbs No.2 came along right on its heels, some say as early as 1874, for better or worse.

I cannot help but think that the .461 Gibbs No.1 is to the .461 Gibbs No.2
as the .458 WIN LongCOL is to the .458 Lott Me-Too.

Selous started using a .461 Gibbs No.1 in Africa in 1880, with delighted satisfaction.
He may have been suckered into a .461 Gibbs No.2 by the time his rifle was lost in shipping in 1893.
He tried a borrowed .303 in 1893 to replace his lost .461 Gibbs-whatever, and apparently got distracted from Gibbs after that.
As famous as he was, later on, he surely had lots of push from commercial-minded WR and H&H to try their wares.



0.453" was the diameter of the "slick" that was paper-patched up to .461" diameter for the .461 Gibbs No.1.
Some surviving moulds produce .453"-diameter bullets of either 535-gr weight or 570-grain weight.
Only one mould is known to have been sent out with the rifle to the customer.
Factory workers produced the bullets and loaded ammo for the .461 Gibbs No.1 and No.2, almost exclusively, few loaded their own.
Metford had his cast bullets swaged or "compressed" with a "foot hammer die and punch invention" before they were paper-patched.
One alloy he used early on was 100 lbs lead + 4 lbs tin + 1.25 lbs antimony.
The factory swaging of the cast bullets accounted for increased uniformity and accuracy of the Gibbs bullets.

The .461 Gibbs No.1 started off at Wimbledon competing as a military breechloader (M.B.L. class) with 480-grain bullet and 85 grains of BP.
Around 1879-1880 Metford standardized on a heavier 540-grainer, and later increased that to 570 grains.
The 1882 George Gibbs catalog shows these loads for the .461 Gibbs No.1:

Match Rifle: 570 grn. bullet; 90 grn. charge

Military Rifle: 530 grn. bullet; 75 grn. charge

Express Rifle: 360 grn. bullet; 90 grn. charge

These were paper-patched, swaged-lead bullets hardened with tin and antimony.

The .461 Gibbs No.2 "Express Rifle" load shown in the 1882 catalog: 360-grn. bullet; 110 grn. charge

Late Nineteenth Century Berry's Bullets did not come from Utah:

The later copper-electroplated, hardened-lead, match bullet was introduced by George C. Gibbs (the younger) in 1894 for match shooting.
It was a shallowly seated 540-grainer according to some sources, 570-grainer according to others.
Maybe there were both.

Selous used paper-patched bullets, 360-grainers and 540-grainers starting in 1880.

Rip ...

The .458 Lott circa 1874:





Book review: Good Ol' George A. Hoyem, American Master Cartridge Collector. His work is without compare.

Rip ...

Next book review excerpts are from a work by author Jonathan Kirton.
Original drawing for the .461 Gibbs No.1:



An original ammo packet label like Selous would have used on elephant, "Military" 540-grain, paper-patched, hardened lead at about 1300 fps:





Book review: The Canadian Master, Johnathan Kirton has delivered a masterpiece.

Rip ...

RIP - I have the RCBS 45-500 FNGC mould. When cast of Lyman No.2 it casts close to 0.460” and weighs around 525gr with GC fitted and lubed.

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:
RIP - I have the RCBS 45-500 FNGC mould. When cast of Lyman No.2 it casts close to 0.460” and weighs around 525gr with GC fitted and lubed.

JFE,

Buy a donkey for supporting THE MISSION.
That should be a very good .458 WIN bullet.
My 92/5/2/1 alloy should be pretty close to Lyman#2, which is 90/5/5/0 alloy, in my lingo.
I can paint that and size it to .461".
Linotype will be a bit lighter and "tighter" in the sizer.

Should work well at 1300 fps for the recoil sensitive who can get close and place their shots well.
Selous claimed to have killed a cape buffalo with the hollow-pointed .461/360-grain "Express" load at about 1700 fps by a lung hit behind the shoulder,
and a hippo dropped to a brain shot with the same varmint load.
He liked it for lion.

Amazing how the old lead bullets killed so well, yet .458 WIN factory ammo used to bounce off the animals in Africa.

Rip ...

The .458 WIN and .45-2.6"-SWT chamberings in rifles with .459"-groove-diameter barrels (as most rifles are that meet SAAMI standard of .458" minimum)
are perfect for duplicating the .461 Gibbs No.1 external ballistics of yore, for all those Selous re-encactors out there who want to have their fun with smokeless powder.

.461-caliber is what works with cast bullets and smokeless powder, gas checks, and powder-coat paint in most .458 WIN rifles.
Therefore the .458 WIN becomes a .461 Gibbs Impersonator by actual bullet caliber too,
oh so easy for the care-free smokeless shooter.
Just too cool, eh?

Another route to becoming a Selous Impersonator, instead of an Elvis Impersonator is to accept your grooves for whatever they are,
and use a paper-patched slick of smaller than groove diameter, patch it up to groove diameter,
and push it through the barrel with BP.
Or a grease-grooved bullet of diameter to match your barrel grooves or .001" smaller, kicked along by BP.
So .458 WIN uses a .451" diameter slick patched up to .459" diameter,
and the .461 Gibbs No.1 uses a .453" diameter slick, patched up to .461" diameter.
Just too cool again, eh?

Case capacities difference of .458 WIN and .461 Gibbs No.1 are not important, they are pretty close anyway.
Smokeless loads easily match the old BP loads with less than a full case of smokeless in the .458 WIN.
Duplexed BP in the .458 WIN or .45-2.6"-SWT easily match the old BP loads of the .461 Gibbs No.1.
LongCOL loading allowed by the .458 WIN throat also mirrors the way of the old .461 Gibbs No.1.
Just too cool, eh?

Selous told of his .461 Gibbs No.1 in his writings,
calling it a .45 Express by Gibbs, a .450 bore, etc.
The barrels were usually stamped with bore size on the original Gibbs rifles.

The .458 WIN and the .461 Gibbs No.1 are both actually ".45-bores" usually just .002" different in bore size.

Rip ...

To finish off this page of THE MISSION we need just two more replies (took off my shoes and socks for that last count of 38 replies on this page).
Book review excerpts from Wal Winfer below:

Loading tips from Wal Winfer's book on George Gibbs







Book review: Cool book by Wal Winfer, Australian Master of Thrillers. A real page turner!

Rip ...

With luck I'll find one of those books at an affordable price some time. I have met Wal, he's a builder and I got him (his guys, that is) to build another room on to our house about 20 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
With luck I'll find one of those books at an affordable price some time. I have met Wal, he's a builder and I got him (his guys, that is) to build another room on to our house about 20 years ago.

Cool. Wal is a shooter too.
He gives great tips on loading the Goldie Oldies in his books.
I was not paying attention when I loaded my latest batch.
I need to get the velocity down next time.

My excuse is that I went too fast with a soft lead, grease-grooved, "480-grain" Lyman 457121PH bullet:



Member sharpsguy uses this bullet in his Shiloh Sharps rifles (.45-70 and .45-110) at 1250 to 1350 fps, with barrel groove of .458", twist 1:20" or 1:18".
This was also supposed to be an imitation of the earliest (circa 1874) M.B.L. match load the Brits were using at Wimbledon for .461 Gibbs No.1.

Of course the Brits were using paper-patched bullets,
starting with 480-grainers in 1874,
went to 540-grainers a few years later,
then worked up to 570-grainers and back down to 530-grainers too, in the 1880s.

I think that the velocity for all those different weight bullets was about 1300 to 1350 fps.
They were going for longer range and less wind drift by adding bullet weight and adding black powder.

The old bullet technology (paper-patched or grease-grooved, cast and swaged lead boolits)
does not respond well to +1400 fps.
That would correct to about 1413 fps MV for BC = 0.243 with the PH bullet.
I think this is another case of bullets stripping in the rifling.
This is with the .45-2.6-SWT.
The bullet was seated as deeply as possible and had a long jump to the rifling.
It will be interesting to see if just slowing it down will make it quit keyholing.

Rip ...

For THE MISSION, copied from the .45-70 Thread:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Don’t think it was too fast Rip. Either too small, too hard, or your load did not boot it hard enough to obturate. If it did strip, it’s because of the long jump to lands which reduces the boot in the rear. Or something. I’ll let the experts weigh in.

Thanks.



On reconsideration I reckon this PH bullet will not work in the SWT throat. For multiple reasons as you list.
The very short COL of 3.035" required to cover the grease grooves just makes for too much slug jump in this throat:
Lesser kick in the ass of the bullet, higher velocity when the bullet meets rifling, etc.

I am just as sure that this throat is good for paper-patched.
They are seated long and get patched to fit the grooves.
It's all fun:





...

Recall that .45-2.6"-SWT load data can be used directly in the .458 WIN with 0.1" shorter COL, as long as the rifling groove diameter is the same.

Rip ...

Rip
No need to deep seat a grease groove bullet. Load it as long as you want. I do in my cast 458wm all the time. Just a bit of care not to expose them to debris before loading into the rifle. Run that Ph bullet out to the lands. That’s why you have a single shot!! Smack it in the ass and see what happens.

"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789

Fury01,

Thanks for the input.
Idea: Powder-coat paint those .456"/479-grain-WW/PB PH bullets,
Then dip lube the bottom/last 3 grease grooves and seat them inside the case, and/or grease cookie alone beneath the bullet, like with paper-patched.

This will leave the top/first 4 grooves forward of case mouth.
This will produce a COL of 3.500" instead of 3.035" when all grease grooves are covered.
One more grease groove out is too far, runs out of throat.
This will make for minimal powder compression even if a 0.2" thick grease cookie plus nitro card plus wax paper(s) are used beneath the bullet.

This will be a hybrid of paper-patch, grease-groove, and powder-coat painted.
The ultimate BP load,
all it lacks is smokeless powder, gas check, and harder alloy.

Will start off with only 5 grains of SR4759 and 75 grains of FFg with the made-for-BP PH bullet.
That would be where Wal Winfer said to start with the .461 Gibbs using a 400-gr to 500-gr bullet

1/2" Longer COL itself should slow the load down.
1300 fps is the goal for re-enactor fun with BP.

That RCBS 45-500-FNGC will do duty in the .458" to .459"-grooved barrels, it being the gas-checked, non-Luddite, twin brother of the PH.

Any other use I have for the PH will be for short-throated .45-70, seated deep and greased for BP.

Rip ...

A great paragraph from Wal Winfer Volume 2:



The naked bullet shown above is the .456"/479-grainer made from WW/Pb-50:50.
The one in the .45-2.6"-SWT dummy at 3.500" COL is made of 92/5/2/1 alloy and is a 0.457"/462-grainer from same mould.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
With luck I'll find one of those books at an affordable price some time. I have met Wal, he's a builder and I got him (his guys, that is) to build another room on to our house about 20 years ago.

Cool. Wal is a shooter too.
He gives great tips on loading the Goldie Oldies in his books.
...

Rip ...

There's an interesting story to this, Ron.

I was having a sleep-in one Saturday morning when my wife told me that Wal Winfer was on the phone, wanting to talk to me.

"Why would Wal Winfer want to talk to me?" I said, half asleep.

It seems she had seen his ad in the local paper and left a message on his phone, using my name. I'd known his writings well enough but not that he was in the building industry.

Thinking back, it was Wal's article on the 358 Winchester for deer that got me interested in the bigger bores. Not able to find one in the Savage 99, I settled for a Sako 338WM, since when most of my acquisitions have been bigger than that.

When Wal came to see about the room, we spent five minutes on that and half an hour talking deer.

Paul,
Say "hi" to Wal for me, I have his first six volumes on the British Single Shot Rifle, and there are more !
No one else has done so magnum an opus on the subject.
Canadian Jonathan Kirton and the Englishman Donald Dallas are great too, and complimentary, going both micro and macro to Wal Winfer.

A book review excerpt of Donald Dallas' book
THE BRITISH SPORTING GUN AND RIFLE Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900,
just one little picture from page 27,
with my comments showing another perspective than the author's, which you will have to read for yourself.
My perspective is that of physician and riflecrank:



Book review: Truly worthwhile as an overview of the subject. Every gunnutt should read this as a primer for further studies. A real bang-up job!

Rip ...

Using PC-painted, hardcast, properly-sized, throat-filling bullets with smokeless in the .458 WIN:
MOA accuracy to 2150 fps and beyond is easy in the standard .458 WIN.

Tickling with duck feathers may be required to get BP and soft lead to work in Goldie Pedersoli-Ruger:

Copied from the .45-70 thread:



Three shots into one hole at 50 yards and I will accept this unconventional loading technique.
Really it is just substituting powder-coat paint for the paper patch:
Polymer-patched grooved bullets.
A lube cookie and grease in the bottom three grooves are just for BP fouling abatement.

A half-case full of AA-5744 would be much simpler,
but a mildly compressed load of BP is much more uniform.
I realize that straight BP may well be the most uniform of all,
and the larger the amount of smokeless in the duplexing, the greater the extreme spread of velocities will be.
So, a compromise: Only 5 grains of SR4759 with 75 grains of FFg.
Less BP fouling, shoot 50 rounds without cleaning, AND good uniformity is hoped for.
I expect lead fouling will be nil with the polymer-patched, grease-lubed PH,
at .457" diameter in .457" grooves.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Paul,
Say "hi" to Wal for me, I have his first six volumes on the British Single Shot Rifle, and there are more !
No one else has done so magnum an opus on the subject.
Canadian Jonathan Kirton and the Englishman Donald Dallas are great too, and complimentary, going both micro and macro to Wal Winfer.

A book review excerpt of Donald Dallas' book
THE BRITISH SPORTING GUN AND RIFLE Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900,
just one little picture from page 27,
with my comments showing another perspective than the author's, which you will have to read for yourself.
My perspective is that of physician and riflecrank:



Book review: Truly worthwhile as an overview of the subject. Every gunnutt should read this as a primer for further studies. A real bang-up job!

Rip ...

I'm afraid I haven't been in contact with Wal since, RIP, but since he is a shooter and hunter of taste, I wouldn't be surprised if he looks in on AR.

In regard to your old photo, I wonder if the punt gun achieved much anyway, since the dude on the left is holding the spoils, a small bird not overly duck-like, which seems to have raised its head for the picture

It's interesting the longest threads (and I checked back several pages) on Big Bores forum are with three very "ordinary" big bores, 458 Winchester, 45/70 and 400 Whelen

Mike,
Please disabuse me of my notion if I am wrong, but as to champion big bore for all seasons and all reasons, there can be only one: The .458 WIN.
Thanks for dropping by, for THE MISSION.

Rip ...

THE BRITISH SPORTING GUN AND RIFLE Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900, pp. 284-286:

Donald Dallas says the .45-caliber ban by the Brits in India and Somalia was in the first decade of the twentieth century.
He is no more specific than that for the date.

However, he shows a Holland & Holland Ltd. catalog illustration from 1906 which introduced their new .500/.465 NE as "The India."

The H&H .500/.450 NE came out in 1900 and was still being promoted as their hot "new" number in 1904.

This suggests the .45-caliber ban was indeed in 1905, as most references imply. Not 1899 as said by one mistaken source.

It was a boon to the gun trade, politically and artificially creating a need for something other than the .450 NE of 1897,
much like the later conspiracy against the .458 WIN of 1955.
The .458 WIN deniers were just tooting their own horns.
Some .458 trivia for THE MISSION.
Keep them doggies rollin'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-CFpiszqA4

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
It's interesting the longest threads (and I checked back several pages) on Big Bores forum are with three very "ordinary" big bores, 458 Winchester, 45/70 and 400 Whelen

Sorry Mike, I must have been living under a rock, thinking that the 400 Whelen was at least a little bit exotic.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
It's interesting the longest threads (and I checked back several pages) on Big Bores forum are with three very "ordinary" big bores, 458 Winchester, 45/70 and 400 Whelen

Sorry Mike, I must have been living under a rock, thinking that the 400 Whelen was at least a little bit exotic.

Not in my book

There is a bloke on a large Denmark run Weatherby forum that has 505 Improved neck to 458 and shortened neck. I suppose that could be called a 458 Chey Tac. The thickness of the metal on the Mark V bolt counter bore is about the same as the Rem 700 with Rigby/Lapua/378 case rim.

There are some hot loads on that forum and especially for the 30/378. I reckon when it comes to pressure the Mark V would be the most tested action out there and doubly so given the 30/378 can be bought in the lower price versions of the Mark V with the Synthetic stock. I don't know the current situation but a while back the 30/378 was their biggest seller followed by the 300 and 257.

As a rule, Weatherby Aggrandizement Syndrome (WAS) sufferers are often afflicted with Winchester Denial Syndrome (WDS).
Mike is no exception to the rule.

Rip ...

Ms. Ultima Winchester is formally engaged.
After she gets hitched to a McGowen she will go hyphenated: Ultima Winchester-McGowen.
Honeymoon will be at Hilltop Gunshop and Spa for Wayward Rifles.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
As a rule, Weatherby Aggrandizement Syndrome (WAS) sufferers are often afflicted with Winchester Denial Syndrome (WDS).
Mike is no exception to the rule.

Rip ...

Ron,

I have always been a very big fan of the M70 action. Top bedding configuration. Mark Vs are at their best in the 378 based calibres. Barreled actions from the Custom Shop are really tops. You buy the complete rifle with standard stock. One of the changes is the bottom metal is all steel. The actions are great and the freebore dimeter very tight.

30/378 in the Synthetic is top value. Of course you could buy a CZ in 416 Rigby etc. and what a fucking pain

Only problem with the 378 based Mark Vs is you don't get the chance to post up questions about feeding problems.

Mike,

I confess to owning a few Weatherbys.
Much better than Blasers.
I am afraid the Weatherby folks do not know how to make a proper .458 WIN for their DGR model.
Their .416 Wby rifle in that model is lighter and has same magazine capacity as the .458 WIN, both using the same dropbox floorplate.
Go figure.

Here is a funny from the .45-70 thread:
The .461 Gibbs No.1 is to the .461 Gibbs No.2
as
the .458 WIn is to the .458 Lott.



Now I want a .461-caliber, 570-grain cast lead bullet for the .458 WIN.
I need it like I need a 12-pack of bleeding hemorrhoids.
But I want it, the .461/570-gr mould.

Rip ...

Ultima Winchester-McGowen will have a Double-MICRO-Seyfried-Schtick Picatinny Scope Base,
for THE MISSION.

Rip ...

Shot two more loads at the farm from the Ruger No.1 .458 Win.
WW cases, WLRM primers, Accurate molds 46-500L2 sized .461" (5 shot averages) COAL = 3.140"

69.0 grs. IMR 3031 = 2150 fps
76.0 grs. RL-15 = 2096 fps

The RL-15 load is compressed even though I used a 3 foot drop tube. Too compressed for my liking with .460" of the bullet in the case using the rear most crimp groove.

3.140, is that a correct data entry?
In that Ruger number 1 you can just touch a Lee Factory Crimp die done on that bullet wherever you want it. Grease grooves out in the air hurt nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
3.140, is that a correct data entry?
In that Ruger number 1 you can just touch a Lee Factory Crimp die done on that bullet wherever you want it. Grease grooves out in the air hurt nothing.

Fury01,
Yes, the 3.140" COAL is a correct data entry. Rip posted the drawing of the Accurate 46-500L2 (double crimp grooves) on page 160 of this thread. I'm using the rear crimp groove on purpose. It's to substitute a cast bullet that takes up the same case space (.460") as the Hornady 500gr. RN #4504. Experimenting with the powders I have on hand to see which ones fit in the same available space as the jacketed bullet and give the best velocity/accuracy. Obviously a cast bullet and a jacketed bullet will produce different pressures because of friction and/or bore seal. I'm weeding out the poorer performers before wasting my meager supply of old stock Hornady RN's. I have a hard time shooting $1 a piece bullets (replacement cost) willy nilly into my backstop. My wheel weight metal supply was acquired back when you could get them for free so the cost of the mold is quickly amortized.

Roger that. I have a few old Hornady 500 Grain RN solids in a box somewhere that I don't plan on using. I think you'll find AA 2230 the cats meow on the 500 grain Jacketed bullets as RIP has documented.
Great on you for trying and using Cast though! Be careful, you might get to like them!!

admiral,

Great data. Thanks.
Great use of cast bullets to zero in on your charge volumetrics for 500-grainers.
I am doing similar with 480-grainers.
Thus I conserve on the several expensive 480-grainers available,
like the Woodleigh Hydro that is darn near 5 bucks a bullet by the time I get them.

Rip ...