Hey Dwright

Glad you are back, computer issues solved? I only got one terminal done this week and it is as follows;






These are a couple of Cup Points that Sam put together to test against the same bullet we tested in the meplat test a few weeks ago. As you can see the Cup Point version went to nearly the same depth as the normal 70% meplat flat nose. These bullets are nearly identical with the exception of the cup point, all else being equal as possible. The cup point veered at about the same depth as total penetration of the flat nose, and went slightly further, only a tiny bit off course.

Here is an example I think of harded cup point making little or no difference at all.

M

Now here is a zinger--Only had one of these to test, but it is a "Hollow Base" 67% meplat solid that weighs 360 grs. The length of this bullet is equal to the 65% meplat bullet we tested in the meplat test a few weeks ago. Same bearing surface, same "size" bullet, just this weighs 360 and the regular solid weighed 429 grs.





Now this is a sample of 1, and little can be really confirmed with that. But it sure is interesting to consider what the hell happened to SD and the weight of these making little to no difference at all???? Good question???? Everything else being very close to equal! Anomaly? I don't know?

M

Probably, the light bullet picked up extra velocity allowing it to approximate the momentum and to almost reach the same penetration.
A chrono reading on the shot would have helped.

Michael,

Do you want me to make a few more of those hollow base bullets?
Also in the photo of the cup points it looks like you used two different cup points. Put your glasses on and make sure. I had you two stes of cup points with different cup shapes.

Sam

Tanzan

Might be right, but there is not much velocity difference in the two. I don't think enough velocity to make a difference, but I might be wrong. Sample of 1 is hard to confirm.


Sam

Yeah, when you get a chance a few of those 360 Hollow bases would be interesting to compare and get a better idea.

Cup Points different? Might be, let me check, hell I can't see good you know? Not sure if they are different, it made zero difference, they went exactly the same depth and nose forward.

M

Man, you boys been busy! Looks like I'm gunna have to make another pot of coffee and get comfortable.
Ya, my second computer took a giant dump, but got it fixed. My new Dell should be here next week, so all is well!

OK, Dr. Michael. . . . . . you were saying. . . . . . . .

Hollow base bullets! Back to the future, Minnie Balls!
Those might make even a round-nose solid stable for penetration in a straight line, from a slow twist barrel.
Eliminate twist entirely for an FN solid with hollow base?
Nah, accuracy might suffer.
Keep some twist and a groove diameter closely matching the bullet diameter.
It is also an aid in decreased powder fouling.
Fly like a shuttlecock, sting like a bee!

Also could be good for the Super Short cartridges.
You can load some of the powder charge inside the bullet.

Rip,

You might give Michael some ideas with that powder in the base. He will be putting 10 grs of Bullseye in the base and taping over it before he loads over the normal charge. 2 stage bullet!

Those hollow base bullets make the bullet like a hemi piston. What you have there is a single piston hemicuda

An interesting bullet design for the 458 SS and 45-70 would be a bore rider CPS that is like the JDJ nose profile on one side then the JDJ flat nose on the other with three canalures (one in the middle and two .55" from the top and bottom to be running pretty close to max OAL in a Marlin) The center canalure would be .6" tip to center canalure to give a 2.25" OAL with the 458 Super Short. The bullet would obviously be 1.2" long.

guys

this is really something as we are fast approching the 75% rule with this for doubles. hopefully sam will have the time to make a few more to test.

michael:

the 75% rule is same load with the only thing changed is the weight of the bullet, that way the guns seem to regulate as well on a lot of double rifles.

RIP and Sam

Wonder how much bullseye I can pack in the hollow base, seal it up, put a fuse in it so it ignites after leaving the bore? Hmmmm? Like a booster rocket concept? EXTRA PENETRATION?



Of course I am kidding.

That hollow base does raise some questions? The velocity between the two, 429 and 360 is not enough to make a difference in this test. However, should I bump up the velocity? Still has the same bearing surface, same area as the heavier bullet. I am not sure if that was some anomaly or the real deal with only 1 to look at. I know Sam is working right now to put some more of these in the mail to me this week.

I will probably be shooting every day this week. Friend of mine coming down with a truck load of buffalo from Ohio, and staying all week. He is getting ready for moose in a few weeks with his 416 B&M and the 330 Brass Non Cons! Should be interesting. So I plan on working in the tests with the bullet Sam sent in different JDJ profiles this week.

Then I want to work in some tests with some of the bullets from the 458 SS and see about penetration, see if we can get to "Buffalo Depth" with anything?

There is a backlog of test work to be done, so it's going to be a big week I think!

Stay Tuned!

Michael

I would be a little careful about developing test loads because there will be a pressure vector in the inside of the cavity pushing against the 'tailcylinder' of the bullet against the bore.

Back to the velocity question. If you loaded the original test with the same amount of powder, how would you know the velocity without a chronograph reading?

I think we need a repeat test here, and it happily appears that you agree.

quote:

Now this is a sample of 1, and little can be really confirmed with that. But it sure is interesting to consider what the hell happened to SD and the weight of these making little to no difference at all???? Good question???? Everything else being very close to equal! Anomaly? I don't know?

Based on testing handgun bullets over the years I have come to the conclusion that Sectional Density is just a number on paper with no meaningful revelance to the real world results. Sometimes the higher SD bullets penetrates the most and sometimes it does not

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I would be a little careful about developing test loads because there will be a pressure vector in the inside of the cavity pushing against the 'tailcylinder' of the bullet against the bore.

Back to the velocity question. If you loaded the original test with the same amount of powder, how would you know the velocity without a chronograph reading?

I think we need a repeat test here, and it happily appears that you agree.

Tanzan

Look careful. I got a muzzle velocity, but I did not get a 22 yd Impact Velocity. Yes, it was exact same amount of powder too. 69/IMR 4198 for all the meplat test and all bullets of this weight, so trying to keep everything as close as possible for comparisons.

Yes, it needs a retest with more samples.


JWP

You are 100% correct on SD as far as I am concerned, that's why SD is dead last on my list of penetration factors concerning solids.

Now here is the catch on this particular 360 gr bullet vs the 429 or 430. Everything is the same, length, meplat, nose profile, bearing surface, everything, except SD because of weight and of course the weight. Does this mean that if the bullet is the same length, and measurements, and the only difference is weight and SD, now SD is a totally irrelevant factor? I know that if the bullet were shorter, less bearing surface then SD would be a factor, but not in this case at all? Yes, I think we should look at this a little deeper. Just curious now!

M

quote:

Tanzan

Look careful. I got a muzzle velocity, but I did not get a 22 yd Impact Velocity.

Thank you. My bad.
It always helps to go back and eyeball the source.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Tanzan

Look careful. I got a muzzle velocity, but I did not get a 22 yd Impact Velocity.

Thank you. My bad.
It always helps to go back and eyeball the source.

Tanzan

No sweat buddy! Sometimes I go over things way too fast too! Skip the details, show me the baby please!

Regardless of velocity, this needs to be visited again just from being curious if nothing else. If it's an anomaly it won't take long to sort out with a couple more of them. If not, it might raise even more questions? As for it's practicality even if correct?

M

BTT with a highjack.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Will start trying some Lapua dummies in the M70-RUM box.

You'll likely have to widen the box front and rear to accomodate 3-down which shouldn't be to much of an issue. I believe Mike Cuypers, Bijou Creek Gunsmithing, has modified the M70 Classic for the 500 Jeffery...so it definately can be done.

Edit Added: Yep…M70, 500 Jeffery, 16” barrel, 7 lbs weight with scope!

Here’s the thread link:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/3791030621

Jim,
Thanks for the encouragement.
I did try the M70 300 RUM box with some Lapua improved dummies.
Thanks to Corbin, I had some .338 Lapua Magnum Improved cases to test the shoulder fit in the windowed box.
Two down and one on top fits.
Can close the bolt on two down, and they feed amazingly well.
Three down and not enough room to close the bolt, but the top cartridge will surf off the top in a good feed.

Proper bottom metal would be swell.
Any headsup on the best soure for "Mauser Cosine Law" bottom metal would be appreciated:
Rubberband three cartridges together and measure the ODs of the bundle at base and shoulders and make that width and depth of box 3.6" long for the M70.

This is on the back burner, waiting for a Manson reamer for 500 XXX or 490/.500/.338 Lapua Magnum.

Have too many shooting irons in the fire right now,
but will get to them eventually.
Alas some work has piled up in several other areas of "real life" too.
Going to have to get off my keester and quit posting so much on the 500 Jeffery thread, soon!

Doc M must be tuckered out at MBIT.
Will enjoy seeing anymore of his work when he gets around to it.

RIP and Guys!

Never worry about a hi-jack here. I have little doubt about the M70 feeding, I am more concerned about keeping the rounds in the magazine, retaining when one starts working the bolt. If there are no issues with that, then the rest is easy. Starting with a RUM rifle, I think maybe that it will be ok! One thing Brian has started doing is changing the follow back out, he says the old one is better and easier to work with for retaining than the newer one! We have been changing this out even on the WSM guns, and retaining the 50s and 458s has become moot. Same with the 500s in the RUM action. Go figure?

I have not made as much progress this week as I thought I would. Monday we started some range work on Lou's 50 B&M. He is in Canada in a few weeks for moose with a 416 B&M primary, second moose with 50 B&M. This is the left hand 50 with the cracked stock. I took care of the rest of the cracked stock with 1 shot and finished it on out, end of story. Will show a few pics soon. So we scrambled and he is taking one of my 50s on the trip. Then yesterday we had a day of dealing with buffalo, getting them on the wall, that took better part of the day.

This morning we are doing some terminals, sighting in, shooting, getting the rifles ready for moose. Lou will be using 330 Brass Non Con in the 416 at a bit over 2500 fps. And I figure the 350 Brass Non Con at 2450 in the 50 will do just dandy on his moose. He has explicit instructions to watch animal reactions as they take these bullets, and of course normal bullet digging afterwards for a proper report.

Other news, our friend right here on terminals, Austringer, is on his way for buffalo in just a couple of weeks. He will be using a double 450 NE and a 450 North Fork at 2125 fps along with a 458 Lott and I have recommended the same 450 North Fork at 2250-2350 fps will do just nicely. Austringer has a few samples on the way for testing at these velocities, these will go to the top of the list. I know right now, he is good to go both ways, but nothing like a bit of confidence in ones bullet when going to the bush!

510 gr .500 caliber Cutting Edge solids and 400 gr Cutting Edge solids are on the brown bus now and should have the new run in a couple of days!

9.3 260 gr flat nose solids by Cutting Edge and Sam design, in the works right now. These combined with any 250 gr 9.3 should do very well in combination. Still waiting on the 286 gr FPS North Forks, should be in this week. These two solids should cover 9.3 well.

North Fork 450 FPS/CPS and 375 FPS/CPS are in the works, samples should be sent out in a couple of days for approval and testing, and I suspect approval quickly and the first run being made within a couple of weeks or so! Then some serious test work with these.

Lot's of Sam bullets to shoot this week, and I intend to get a lot of that sorted out, starting this morning.


Michael

I have managed to work in a couple of tests yesterday. I think a couple of important ones that I wanted an answer to.

Our Boy Boomy can come up with some wild things, but some of the things he comes up with we should pay attention to! Now he is young and he is learning, but Boomy is a digger, he notices things that would slip by me in the rush of doing so much, as we know sometimes I get stretched pretty thin here. Now only a few weeks ago Boomy made mention of the rounded edge on the meplat. Sam was good enough to get us some comparison bullets made, so I thought this would be a good thing to check into, as did Boomy!

We are also looking at what I call the JDJ nose profile, attributed to JD Jones to the best of my knowledge. I have been shooting some of JDs nose profiles for some time, and it is as far as I am concerned right up there with the best of them. Sam and I decided to investigate this a bit with different angles on the nose. This was a 13 degree angle, and I really did not expect it to do as good as it did, I underestimated it a bit!

We had 2 sharp edge and two rounded edge meplats, both 13s. The sharp edge meplats at 66% meplat of caliber drove 100% dead straight all the way through the medium and both stuck in the back of the box into the 2X6 dead straight, and to the exact same depth! I was very impressed with these.

Now since the sharp edge meplat did not penetrate the box completely, I figured I was safe with the rounded edge meplat. Plus the fact I did not have a second box of test medium made up anyway!

One issue with the rounded edge, when Sam rounded it off, meplat shrank a bit to 62% meplat of caliber! This had a definite effect on stability of this bullet, no doubt in my mind! As you see one bullet veered slightly off course starting at 46 inches but traveled the entire length of test medium 63 inches, and exited the box! Not quite stable, but penetration was deeper. The second bullet managed to stabilize itself and went the distance, exited the box, no recovery.

While we have a difference in meplat size of 4%, I now have confidence that the rounded edge of the meplat gave just a tad bit more penetration than the sharper edge. Stability was completely the result of the 62% meplat.

The rounded edge gave deeper penetration! The rounded edge also is a boost to feed and function in rifles that are NOT WINCHESTERS too!




This rounded edge is not one that was tested, but a similar bullet for comparison.




This is a very successful nose design.

This test is one that we have been a bit curious about for some time. The strange design of the Woodleigh Hydro? The upside down "Beer Can" as Mike says! An excellent description in my opinion!

I contend, many of us contend, that the same exact bullet with a flat meplat would penetrate deeper and straighter, just makes good sense right? Well I am still of that opinion, but I have to state this test was inconclusive as I had some sort of anomaly with the flat meplat version that I cannot explain.

I neglected to put the meplat size of these bullets on the label, but both the Cup Point hydro and the flat meplat hydro are 67% of caliber.




The Cup Point Hydro was consistent, both bullets started veering off course at 42 inches, both bullets went to a total penetration of 52 inches where both were found 1.5 inches off course. They actually moved closer together right and left. Now I am not sure, and would either have to check back on Mikes tests with the Hydros, but I seem to recall the ones he had in 470 did much the same thing, veering slightly off course?




Something happened to the stability of ONE of the flat meplat hydros? I have can't explain or figure out exactly what happened to this one bullet, at 40 inches it went astray, went downward to only 46 inches nearly hitting and may have hit the bottom of the box to stop. The second bullet went 100% dead straight to 57 inches, 5 inches further than the cup point hydro, which is what I would have expected. I suspect some anomaly with the meplat on the one that went astray. So with that being the case I have to OFFICIALLY declare the test "Inconclusive". In the back of my mind I still believe that the flat meplat will penetrate straighter and deeper than the cup point?




One thing to add, the cup point did it's job inflicting trauma to the test medium, at least twice as much trauma inflicted by the cup point hydro than the flat meplat hydro. This is as it should have been and is no surprise, this is one of the jobs of a cup point solid as proven with the North Fork design also.

Michael

Michael,

Tests look good! I guess this means you want some more 13's so you can put it through two boxes.
Have your hollow bases on the way to you.

Sam

Sam

The 13s worked way better than I thought they would. But no, do not make anymore until I get the rest of them tested.

M

OK I guess I overloaded you.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Now this is a sample of 1, and little can be really confirmed with that. But it sure is interesting to consider what the hell happened to SD and the weight of these making little to no difference at all???? Good question???? Everything else being very close to equal! Anomaly? I don't know?

Based on testing handgun bullets over the years I have come to the conclusion that Sectional Density is just a number on paper with no meaningful revelance to the real world results. Sometimes the higher SD bullets penetrates the most and sometimes it does not

That has been my experience as well. The nose profile is everything.

Doc M, MBIT:

Outstanding in your field again!

It seems the JDJ-FN nose design might be better than the simple truncated cone FN.
It shifts CG forward relative to the simple truncated-cone FN.
Dart stabilization help,
especially if you put a hemisperical hollow on the base of the bullet.

Correct me if I am wrong:
The JDJ-FN has a segment of parallel-sided, bore-riding nose that is topped by a short segment of truncated cone FN?

The relative length of that segment of TC nose can be compared to bullet caliber, I assume,
regardless of overall bullet length?
Best estimate of that percentage could be had by looking at the pictures of the JDJ-FNs made by Sam: ~89 %?

Nose shape is most important.
We now have two percentages of caliber to describe the JDJ-FN nose shape:
Meplat diameter
Nose cone "truncation" length

Radiused meplat edge?
My best penetrator ever is the .395-caliber/330-grain S&H brass FN at 2800 fps MV.
That one has a short truncated cone FN, with radiused meplat.

Now put a hollow base on it!

JDJ-FN NonCon Solid:

67% of caliber meplat
89% of caliber truncated cone length
nose-edge-radiused meplat
bore-riding remainder of nose?
hollow base
all brass construction
proper weight and length:

Shoulder-stabilized: 67.5% meplat
Dart-stabilized: JDJ-FN plus hollow base
Spin-stabilized: fast is good for transition from air to dense medium and carry-on inward

JDJ-CP NonCon Expanders

Use a copper cup-pointed bullet like the above brass penetrator to limit penetration and increase wound trauma.
Or a brass or copper hollowpoint VeloExploder.

Of course the North Fork Soft Point is about perfect for NonCon or light-for-rifle-caliber-use too.
And their Cup Point needs no improvement.


Some 450-grain .500-caliber bullets will be great, for the .500 S&W and all the proliferation of other chamberings.

Glad I can add to the learning here. I guess we need to increase the meplat to keep it in the media. If say we increase the meplat diameter to 75% for both sharp and radius edge then add another radius edge group with the 4% larger to match the actual sharp edge of the 75% this will give us some telling data.

So measuring pre-radius
75% sharp
75% radius
79% radius

For hunting purposes a 71% pre radius 67% post radius flat nose JDJ nose profile would be pretty interesting and cool looking.

Rip. Good point on the hollow base "hemi piston" moving the CG up. I would also add that you can get rid of the driving bands counting from the bottom numbers 2,3 and 4 for added forward CG and lower pressure on the lucky 13's. call them lucky 13's V2.0

Another observation is how incredible the penetration is with the 13's with an impact velocity of about 2,100 and .279 SD similar SD to a 405 grain 458 bullet. It would be interesting to see a .500" 440 grain .251 SD 67% meplat radius edge JDJ bullet nose profile at 2,100 impact velocity and see what the differential is at higher impact velocity. Would be good to see this JDJ nose profile in a 45-70 bullet with a 370 grain .252 SD for the 45-70, 458 B&M SS and 458 B&M.

quote:

Another observation is how incredible the penetration is with the 13's with an impact velocity of about 2,100 and .279 SD similar SD to a 405 grain 458 bullet. It would be interesting to see a .500" 440 grain .251 SD 67% meplat radius edge JDJ bullet nose profile at 2,100 impact velocity and see what the differential is at higher impact velocity. Would be good to see this JDJ nose profile in a 45-70 bullet with a 370 grain .252 SD for the 45-70, 458 B&M SS and 458 B&M.

Boomy Boy! Don't you worry none, I know how to do just exactly what you are talking about above!


Also, yes my whole point is that you contribute a lot and are very much appreciated! Job well done!

I will make some time and get some of those measurements for RIP on the JDJ profile. Again my favorite solid nose profiles---JDJ--North Fork--Barnes Banded--S&H Magic bullets! I don't have much variety experience with the JDJs, JD made some 455 gr .500 caliber coppers for me some years ago. Regardless of velocity, 100% dead straight line penetration. In the 50 B&M running at 2150 fps it will run about 55 inches straight penetration, good for a 455 .500. Had a couple of 458 samples at 470 grs, burn straight thru 62-64 inches exit the box at 2140 fps. That's all I have worked with. So I gave a sample to Sam, and he came up with several varieties to look at. 13 degrees did a hell of a job! Was way more than I expected, and if the rounded radius had been a 65% meplat, it would have driven dead straight 100%. I will look at the others during the next week or so.

I got some new bullets in this week! I have 9.3 286 Woodleigh Hydros, 458 450 gr Woodleigh Hydros!
I have 9.3 286 North Forks, 416 400 gr North Forks, 416 370 North Fork Cup Points!

Anyone even remotely interested in getting the results from any of these? Anyone, anyone at all have any interest?

Michael

Come now, surely someone would be interested in seeing how a Woodleigh Hydro compares against a North Fork perhaps??????


Anyone?

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Come now, surely someone would be interested in seeing how a Woodleigh Hydro compares against a North Fork perhaps??????


Anyone?

Michael

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

But of course!
I had planned on using North Fork 450-grain FP/CP/SP's in the .458 B&M.
If you have anything better, let's see it!
Letter Rip!

I have to go to school in a few minutes! Yes, school! No, not for me, for my 2cd grader, new school, meet and greet! Soon as I get back, maybe couple of hours, I will get something going. I give you a hint RIP----NORTH FORKS ARE GREAT in the 458 B&M--I swear one might could push issues and knock out 2300 fps in 20 inches, I am very close on that!

Michael

Thanks Michael, I try.
One good thing about the JDJ bore rider nose with the radius while keeping the same angle on the profile is it will add more weight up front especially if you make it a hemi and get rid of bands number 2,3 and 4. It will be a tad lighter but it seems to be a spectacular penetrator. Thanks again to you and to Bastard File Bullet Works!

Michael, regarding the lighter 45-70/458 B&M SS and 458 B&M JDJ profile bullet. A copper one with a crimp from the tip at .5", .6" and .7" would be the bees knees for all threes.

Boomy,

If you take away bands 2,3 and 4 there won't be anything to hold on to in a B&M with the short necks, except in the .500. I have made several .510 and .583 's like you are talking about but I'd better give Michael a rest. I did mail him some more of those hemi's and even sent him a hemi filled with lead to add weight over the brass to the same bullets.

Was thinking the idea of removing the 2,3 and 4 bands for the 13 version 2.0 for the 500 MDM but I see your point for the other .500's but I guess my point overall was to eliminate bands that are not needed between the base one and needed crimp options. Thanks for the clarificating question. I was not clear. The trebble crimp was separate for maximizing versatility between the trebble carts of the 45-70 and 458 B&Ms and will need all the bands. Just letting my crazy ideas fly. I think people would like a short super penetrator solid for the 45-70. A 370 grain copper penetrator is a nice idea no?

I like as few of bands as possible and I really think it was shown in the 577 tests that 2 narrow bands are all you really need to spin a bullet.

I will try and address all these wonderful ideas for bullets later, maybe in the morning. Right now I must get these tests posted for you!

First and foremost! I have been curious, I don't really like to post one bullet against another, and have not done that too much and don't intend to start now. Of course, a lousy bullet gets a lousy review from here, good gets good, excellent gets a raving review. First test up is a 458 caliber 450 gr Woodleigh Hydro Cup Point. I have said it from day one, Ugliest bullet I have ever seen, it still is ugly, and it's ugly in my 458 B&M too!



The 450 Hydro performed exactly as it should, a limited penetration Cup Point Solid. Nothing wrong with it's performance, it had 100% straight line penetration. For those wanting a limited penetration cup point solid for buffalo, I can seen no fault in that at all, it will do the job nicely, and has been doing so. Testing this today back to back with a North Fork FPS I really could not see much difference in trauma inflicted to the target between the two of them.




The North Fork FPS is much easier to load to a proper seating depth in our 458 B&M case. The North Fork FPS in depth of penetration and in straight line penetration is equal to or better than any 458 caliber 450 gr solid I have tested or worked with. It feeds and functions 100% in the Winchesters, a big plus. I had some issues with the Woodleighs, but one can sort that out I am sure.

I do like that North Fork Box, as you guys know! Damn box just looks good in those photos I think!




Michael

We have been struggling with 9.3 solids from day one. Yes, the great 320 round nose FMJ Woodleigh is a deep diver, and consistent. But it weighs 320 grs, and it does not shoot with any of my 250 gr loads or 286 gr loads, and it's not close enough to POI with either to work with. Both the 250 Barnes and 286 Barnes with the 9.3 profile is awful, not even the worst round nose fmj is that bad! What a shame! Tumble and roll should be marked on them, they are good at it. The 286 Woodleigh FMJ, just another round nose veer off course story, not like it's bigger brother the 320 at all.

Today, we have the 286 gr covered. 286 Woodleigh Hydro and the 286 North Fork FPS!




The 286 Woodleigh Hydro Cup Point behaved exactly like the bigger brother in 458. It drove 100% straight, did not veer at all. Penetration was good. I noticed no more trauma inflicted than a normal FPS. Penetration was less than the North Fork FPS, as it should have been, limited penetration solid. Would be excellent on buffalo I would think!




For Deep Diving with a 9.3, and I mean consistent, dependable deep diving that will match up with other 286 gr loads, North Fork FPS is going to be tough to beat! I was very impressed with it, works like a champ in the 9.3 B&M too, can attain great velocity, and could easy push it over 2600 fps in the 9.3 B&M without pressure issues.




While these two bullets give excellent options for the 286 gr weight class. The North Fork FPS will companion up with any good premium 286 expanding, we still come up short on the 250 gr class solids. I am filling that gap in the next few weeks with a 260 gr bullet from Cutting Edge. It is a copper solid, 68% meplat, made from the 250 gr Brass sample of Sams we tested a few weeks ago. This will work with the 250 gr bullet class, and cover 9.3 caliber just dandy. For my personal use with 250s I will use the 260 Cutting Edge, with all 286 loads I will use the North Fork FPS. Excellent choices now in 9.3 caliber! I am pleased with these.

The End-Until tomorrow!

Michael