hey boys
I am Ulrik `s gunsmith
I have measured his barrel this morning again and it is 12.95 mm and 12.7 mm ( .5098 and .500 )
the barrel is made by Border barrels
the reamer is made by manson reamers (jeff`s drawing )

i have calculatet the bullet in the greenhill way
http://kwk.us/twist.html

and it vil love a 1-26 batrrel twist an the barrel ulrik´s is 1-10 twist

i think it is the twist and the speed thats the problem but ulrik and I will test the bullets/riffel and collekt som bullets

it´s like shooting with leadbullets at high speed

Hi Hatting

WELCOME to AR and the Terminal Performance Thread! We are happy to have you here.

Well, it seems the barrel is the correct size! So the mystery continues I suppose!

As for the twist rate, while a 1:26 may very well stabilize the bullet in flight, such a SLOW twist is not conducive to Terminal Stability of solid bullets. And that goes double especially for bullets that come up short of a proper meplat size, less than 65% of caliber. The faster the twist rate, the more stable solids are for close range terminal performance. I am sure this is the reason that Ulrik chose a 1:10 twist rate, for just such a caliber, cartridge and rifle. Close Range Dangerous Game.

There are several of us that have rather fast twist rates in some of our DGRs. I think RIP has a 1:10 on some of his rifles. I have 1:10 twist rates on my 475 B&Ms and 475 B&M Super Shorts. They are .474 caliber, BBW#13s are .474 caliber. These bullets are started at 2250 fps in these guns, not quite as fast as Ulriks, but close enough, and there are no issues with them in the 1:10 twist rates?



Let me correct--these 350s are at 2200 fps and change with these particular bullets. But I have also got loads with the 350s in the 475 B&M at 2600 fps. I will try and test a few of those in the next day or so as well.




Again, Welcome, pleased to have you, and hopefully we can solve this little mystery with your help!

Michael

Velkommen og Mange Tag

Some of us suspect the 1.25" parallel freebore throat in combination with the metal of those bullets, since "Buffalo" Ulrik found that the .510" (12.9mm) bullets had become .501" (12.7mm). It seems that the bands were cut down to almost the diameter of the "lands".

Several of us in this forum have such a rifle and it will be important to find out what will shoot properly and what will shear the bands.

Here is a picture of an all-copper Barnes TSX .510" 570 grain bullet fired at about 2050 fps from a 500AccR rifle with 1.25" (31.75mm!) throat and 1 in 12" (25.4mm) twist. The rifling marks are clear and that combination did not have any problem with a very long freebore throat:


Left from hippo, right from elephant skull. Both bullets were under 2000 fps impact speed.

Just a thought ...... why not make the diameter between the lower and driving band nr2 .502?

then it vil bore-ride in between the drivingbands

I will begin to collect wet newspapers for test firing

Hi everybody.. As Hatting mentioned he measured the barrel again. And both in the muzzle and chamber end.. Barrel was uniform at .5098 and .500" ... so the barrel is not the issue I guess... Must be the freebore...I suspect...? Well we will asap try and shoot some low vel (2000 fps and with more slow burning powder) and 2350 fps loads into wet newspaper. Will also try some Hornady DGS bullets and some Barnes FN solids (which both have a considerably longer bearing surface than the BBW#13 solids).... Just to see whether it makes a difference... I hope so.....

Can we get Buffalo some new .510's and see if it was just bad brass?

Was there no excessive brass fouling of the rifling noted?
How much do the recovered bullets weigh compared to original weight,
regarding the sized-down ones recovered without the nose fracture and bulge?
That is a lot of brass going somewhere!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Can we get Buffalo some new .510's and see if it was just bad brass?

That is what I am thinking, too.
The split and bulged nose of one solid indicates bad metallurgy of some sort.
It may be more than just an inclusion defect or crack in that one bullet.

Brass is supposed to be harder but slicker than copper.
Start pressures in QuickLOAD for rifle bullets:
Solid Brass: 1800 psi
Solid Copper: 6525 psi
I also set the "friction proofing" factor in QuickLOAD at a ratio related to amount of bearing surface versus nonbearing.
So the banded brass bullet might have half the start pressure as the non-banded solid brass bullet,
or only 900 psi, slick indeed, low initial friction.

This has worked very well in quickLOAD for me, yeilding predictions close to reality.

If this particular batch of brass bullets was softer than it should be but retained high lubricity/low start pressure, that would make it more like lead.

Then it would tend to skid and smear when it was spun too fast, in fast twist barrel.
Like a cast lead bullet.
That would size it down to bore size.

I still do not see the throat length as much of a problem with bullet of proper hardness and lubricity.
More of a problem with accuracy loss and pressure loss, requiring higher powder charges to get desired pressure and velocity,
thus not good for many reasons.

BUT: Jumping 0.5" or jumping 1.25" before rifling engagement is not that big a stretch, or is it?
OK, it could contribute minorly to a problem that is actually more of a "soft bullet in a fast twist" problem.
And that might just be a "soft and slick bullet problem."

The fix?
(Just sayin'.)

Fix bullet if metallurgy bad, then the twist and the throat may be no factor.
Still good idea to reduce freebore length. Reduce freebore to caliber length and no more than +.002" diameter over caliber for a .510-caliber rifle: set the barrel back, get new reamer with new throat
Twist: 1:10" is great, in all the .510-caliber shooting I have done.
That is the last factor to consider.

BTW: 0.588" is the longest length of parallel-sided freebore I could ever see as necessary in a .510-caliber rifle,
over a decade ago when I was shooting all the 50 BMG bullets I could find, at the longest possible COL I could use in the 500 A-Square.
I single loaded cartridges to 4.760" COL, with a 2.900" brass length.

Sample target shot with that 500A-Square and .588"-long freebore, 1:10" twist McGowen barrel:



I subsequently found that a parallel-sided freebore length of 0.5" is more than enough to handle all the milsurp bullets.
Even 750-grain Hornady A-Max bullets could be seated out to 4.672" COL with that modest freebore.

Rule of Thumb for Free Bore:
Parallel-sided freebore length should be no longer than caliber of bullet,
and diameter of freebore should be kept tight,
.0006" minimum (for smaller bores, smaller free bore) to .002" maximum over bullet diameter (larger bore max),
and leade angle of 1.5 to 2.0 degrees is fine,
all gradations depending on caliber of bullet and purpose of rifleman.

King Ugly Rifle, Aloha

Precise specs of 500AR throat please (requires access to reamer drawing, not hearsay):

Parallel-sided free bore length: ?????
Parallel-sided free bore diameter: ?????
"Commencement-of-rifling" leade angle: 2.0 degrees CONFIRMED by 416Tanzan ... ???? ...

... or sumbuddy who know?

This is a fellow I was assisting with some loads in his 458 Lott and the 480 BBW#13 Solid. It was a great success.

He said his first shot was 6 inches high, but staggered the bull long enough for him to get a second round in the right spot, all done.

It's exciting to see more and more hunters chose bullets designed by the team on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by hatting:
hey boys
I am Ulrik `s gunsmith
I have measured his barrel this morning again and it is 12.95 mm and 12.7 mm ( .5098 and .500 )
the barrel is made by Border barrels
the reamer is made by manson reamers (jeff`s drawing )

i have calculatet the bullet in the greenhill way
http://kwk.us/twist.html

and it vil love a 1-26 batrrel twist an the barrel ulrik´s is 1-10 twist

i think it is the twist and the speed thats the problem but ulrik and I will test the bullets/riffel and collekt som bullets

it´s like shooting with leadbullets at high speed

Is that Hatting L? I've had a customer from "over there" with that name? Welcome aboard, either way.

OK--I did some 30/30 work today--100 ESP Raptor.

H-4198--TAC--H-335--RL 7--RL 10X

Does anyone want to take a stab at the velocities I came up with? Come now, take a guess for me!

M

I'll play.
20" barrel, adjust for barrel length difference, to nearest 50 fps:

H4198: 2950 fps
TAC: 2700 fps
H335: 2750 fps
RL-7: 2850 fps
RL-10X: 2800 fps

3k

.511 for 1.25" then 2,5 degrees as taken off the reamer print

Unless there is a pile of brass sheared off in the neck it isn't velocity shearing off the rifling. And if it ain't twisting it won't penetrate.

What is the minor diameter on the fired and unfired bullets?

Btw, I have no clue as to why there is no marks

It is designed to also shoot milsurps without taking too much case capacity.

Yards of penetration? Holy cow. Or holely bull hippo

Mm if you like I can send you my 500 for testing

quote:

Originally posted by hatting:
hey boys
I am Ulrik `s gunsmith
I have measured his barrel this morning again and it is 12.95 mm and 12.7 mm ( .5098 and .500 )
the barrel is made by Border barrels
the reamer is made by manson reamers (jeff`s drawing )

i have calculatet the bullet in the greenhill way
http://kwk.us/twist.html

and it vil love a 1-26 batrrel twist an the barrel ulrik´s is 1-10 twist

i think it is the twist and the speed thats the problem but ulrik and I will test the bullets/riffel and collekt som bullets

it´s like shooting with leadbullets at high speed

Welcome to the thread Hatting!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
OK--I did some 30/30 work today--100 ESP Raptor.

H-4198--TAC--H-335--RL 7--RL 10X

Does anyone want to take a stab at the velocities I came up with? Come now, take a guess for me!

M

Is 3 hours enough? Or are you ready to roost?

h335/tac and 100gr bullets?
north of 2800

jeffeosso,
Thanks for the throat specs, 500 Accurate Reloading:
Parallel-sided freebore, length X diameter X leade: 1.2500" X 0.5110" X 2-degrees-30'

That is indeed a long throat, but nicely tight diameter.
Two different approaches to throat on my two "fifties":

500 Mbogo: 0.5000" X 0.5110" X 1-degree-30'
12.7x68mm M/49-10: 0.2520" X 0.502" X 1-degree-30'

The extra .001" on throat diameter of the 49-10 might allow use of cast lead pistol bullets of .501" diameter,
but now I know for sure it would have to be limited to very slow velocity,
else my 1:12" twist would size the lead bullets down to .490" diameter.
The 500 Mbogo has a 1:10" twist, and another one has a 1:9" twist.

50 B&M and 500 MDM throats anyone? Pretty please!

And has Dan at CEB said anything about ordnance gelatin, aka ballistic gelatin, testing of the NonCons and RAPTORs with slow motion video?

Some interesting video youtube from Peter Pi of CorBon, pistol and rifle up to .308:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=1&feature=endscreen

I imagine the brass NonCon would produce something VERY DIFFERENT.
They would probably be digging brass petals out of the walls and ceiling,
and scraping gelatin off the walls and ceiling of the test room.
I wonder if that would mean anything to the Luddite Terry Wee-wee-land?
He does not seem to be impressed by hunting field results on game.

KUR
one of us

"Thank you, thank you very much."

quote:

And has Dan at CEB said anything about ordnance gelatin, aka ballistic gelatin, testing of the NonCons and RAPTORs with slow motion video?

That would make a great marketing piece.

quote:

Originally posted by Stockbroker:

quote:

Originally posted by hatting:
hey boys
I am Ulrik `s gunsmith
I have measured his barrel this morning again and it is 12.95 mm and 12.7 mm ( .5098 and .500 )
the barrel is made by Border barrels
the reamer is made by manson reamers (jeff`s drawing )

i have calculatet the bullet in the greenhill way
http://kwk.us/twist.html

and it vil love a 1-26 batrrel twist an the barrel ulrik´s is 1-10 twist

i think it is the twist and the speed thats the problem but ulrik and I will test the bullets/riffel and collekt som bullets

it´s like shooting with leadbullets at high speed

Is that Hatting L? I've had a customer from "over there" with that name? Welcome aboard, either way.

Yes I Am Anders Hatting Larsen
Here is a Picture off ulrik`s riffel
Ruger Action
Borderbarrels cut rifling 1-10 Twist
Accurate innovation Stock
Recknagle sight`s
bottom metal own design

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

And has Dan at CEB said anything about ordnance gelatin, aka ballistic gelatin, testing of the NonCons and RAPTORs with slow motion video?

That would make a great marketing piece.

At the St. Louis NRA Show, Dan said he was thinking about it.
I wondered if he has gotten any further along on the idea.
I bet fellow bullet maker Peter Pi of CORBON could give him some pointers on where to rent the cameras and jello ...
and Dan of CEB might give Peter some pointers on machining actions.
Peter might then get the price more than a nickel below $5K and sell more actions.

AHL/hatting: That bottom metal is to die for. Very nice! Thanks for sharing.
What would it take to get some of that on this side of the pond?

I think to shoot something like that would not be cheap. It would be worth it I think in future sales for a commercial titled "Seven is better than one" or "The seven deadly segments"

I am now ready to accept the idea of a combination of factors allowing too fast skidding into the lands as cause for recovered bullets being found sized down to bore size.
Yes, I guess, strange things can happen.
A "perfect storm" of factors.
Well, blow me down!
Even perfectly good bullet-making brass does machine nicely, sometimes even when not supposed too, eh?
The one bad nose was an isolated inclusion defect or hidden flaw.
Crap happens now and then.
Goes with the territory.
Blow me down ... perfect storm ... gonna go mumble myself to sleep ...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mm if you like I can send you my 500 for testing

Interesting!!!

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Mm if you like I can send you my 500 for testing

Interesting!!!

Well, let's see.
Michael is set up for testing. And he has said that if he didn't already have his B&M and MDM and M70 limitation, the 500AccR would be a natural niche for a balanced, big bore cartridge.

Maybe he can help us all find the right loads.
Instead of searching for the 'low shearing point' for petals, he will be looking for the high shearing point for the bands. It would give Michael a reason for shooting "lots more Big Bore." And we can answer the question that many would like to know: can a Raptor be made that engages rifling after 1.25 inch .511" freebore en route to a sizzling 2900+ fps muzzle velocity? He could test up to the point of heavy bolt lift or consistent band shear, whichever comes first.

Loading data and limitations would be nice to know before I get my next window for load development. And the pictures of the engraved .510 TSX's are from a rifle already in Africa where bringing it to the US for load development would be a major PITB.

Yes, I went to roost soon after that post about guessing the velocity of the 30/30 100 ESP Raptor.

I suppose I can't fool you guys too much. As you are spot on. While I have several 30/30 rifles, probably 8-10, really don't know, I have not done any work with one to speak of. So what I got was a surprise to me. I looked at my 30/30 data, which consisted of ONE LOAD 10-12 years ago! HEH........

My favorite 30/30s are the little 16 inch guns. I suppose that would be natural for me! I have 2-3 of those Legendary Lawman rifles, 16 inch barrels. A few weeks ago I set one up with a forward mount scope so I could test proper. No strain gages, or pressure traces.

I worked mostly with TAC, H-335, and H-4198. Did a couple of light loads with RL 7 and RL 10X, but was getting a big ball of flame out the muzzle, so I dropped those powders after one load out. Should probably take those on up as well. I got TAC and H-335 up to mid 2600 to high 2600s, and was getting a huge ball of flame at the muzzle. My surprise was H-4198. I started low, and really did not think H-4198 was going to do much. I kept adding 2 grains and started watching it jump, with no apparent pressure issues. I was amazed when it went to over 2800, and then again to the high 2800s. At that point, still zero pressure signs, cases, primers, all looked great. Ease of extraction, nothing. I had to see if I could break 2900. Easy, 1 more grain took it to 2950 fps!!!! Still zero issues. I had to go one more grain just to see--Sure enough, average 3013 fps. I was feeling very carefully for extraction--I took no care whatsoever in brass, just whatever brass I had, dirty, not clean, and on one of these I felt the slightest bit of sticky opening the bolt, but it could have been that piece of brass, as it was rather ratty and nasty. There was NO MUZZLE FLASH with the H-4198 either.

Probably the other powders would take velocity up as well, but the H-4198 did so well, I did not worry with the others.

Now, important, don't forget this was a 16 inch barrel! I am going to dig around in my 30/30s and see if I have one with a longer barrel, I think I do? I know I have several with 16 inch barrels.

I will continue this work next in 308 and 300 Winchester, but next I have the 338s up with the Raptors. 338 WSM I already have 200 Raptor Data, want 175 Data. Same with the 338 Ultra.


Will try and keep small bore stuff to a minimum, sorry.

M

Now, back to real stuff. The ongoing saga of .510!

Do take notice during this entire issue of no engraving, remember what those bullets did, Jeffe points out, yards of penetration, and "Holy Bull Hippo". Engraved or not! Penetration was still extreme. Rifle, cartridge, and bullet accomplished the mission at hand, and seems to have done so very well, regardless!

As for sending a 500 AR, that is up to Jeffe, I have no issues with doing some test work with one of course. It might take a bit of time to accomplish the things I would want to, just not sure of my schedule in the coming weeks. I would want to hook up a strain gage however and give it a decent workout, if Jeffe had no objections to that. I won't promise a schedule or time frame. I do have much to do in the coming weeks.

Speaking of .510--I have the new BBW#13 NonCon HP--with the new WIDE CAVITY--and it looks great. I have to get LVSP on this bullet, and is right now a priority as many are thinking of buffalo in their 500 Nitros. The previous and now obsolete bullet had a LVSP of only 1800 fps, which prompted the change in both .500 and .510 NonCons. The .500 NonCons are EXCELLENT--with the 450 down to 1500 or less LVSP. I will have that done this week.

I believe that will be the Last of the LVSP on all the big bore NonCons. As stated earlier the work on the small bores will not be done here, Dan is having better results doing those at actual long range, and they are working dandy. So that really takes a HUGE load off my activities and frees me up to do more important things I need to get done.

M

quote:

Originally posted by hatting:

quote:

Originally posted by Stockbroker:

quote:

Originally posted by hatting:
hey boys
I am Ulrik `s gunsmith
I have measured his barrel this morning again and it is 12.95 mm and 12.7 mm ( .5098 and .500 )
the barrel is made by Border barrels
the reamer is made by manson reamers (jeff`s drawing )

i have calculatet the bullet in the greenhill way
http://kwk.us/twist.html

and it vil love a 1-26 batrrel twist an the barrel ulrik´s is 1-10 twist

i think it is the twist and the speed thats the problem but ulrik and I will test the bullets/riffel and collekt som bullets

it´s like shooting with leadbullets at high speed

Is that Hatting L? I've had a customer from "over there" with that name? Welcome aboard, either way.

Yes I Am Anders Hatting Larsen
Here is a Picture off ulrik`s riffel
Ruger Action
Borderbarrels cut rifling 1-10 Twist
Accurate innovation Stock
Recknagle sight`s
bottom metal own design

AH! So good to see the completed rifle! I thought that might be one of "my" stocks! So glad we did yours when we did, as we've had a monster of a time with export this year; truly awful.
Thanks for sharing the pics!

Ha! Awesome 3,013 FPS! I was only 13 fps off ! A 3k load from a 30-30 and 16" barrel is amazing. Watch out deer!

Any terminal performance tests on the 100 grain 308?
Curious to see the cutting edge new and really improved 30-30 performance

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Any terminal performance tests on the 100 grain 308?
Curious to see the cutting edge new and really improved 30-30 performance

Friend and B&M Owner from VA has been here for a couple of days, and we have been busy on the range. We did accomplish quite a bit, and I have loads of data to input on several various things.

One of the main things my buddy needed to work on was some sub-sonic rifle for his "canned" 308. So we did a lot with that, which is a pain of course. But, also learned some things about the 100 gr ESP Raptor in both 308 and 30/30 while we were at it. Working with a rifle with a can is about like working with a double rifle--look at it cross eyed and POI changes!

Also, this has me behind on other projects that I wanted to work on, like 338 data, LVSP on the new .510 cavity (99.9% sure about that anyway), but still gotta know 100%. And many other things. I got both of my 223s back with the new 1:8 twist barrels, kinda wanted to play with some Raptors with them as well!

But, I was curious about how the 30/30 would do with it's new HI SPEED 100 ESP Raptor!






Couple of points to ponder-- Adding the C-Talon Tip gave the bullet an extra 321 fps at 48 yard Impact! That is significant to say the least! This extra impact velocity as you can see gave it an extra 2 inches of penetration. More important than the extra penetration was the extra Trauma inflicted and a slightly different shearing of the blades. Blades were much longer and penetrated deeper with the extra velocity provided by the Talon Tip, than without. Well, naturally one CANNOT use the Talon tip in the magazine tube of a lever gun. But, one most certainly can load that first round in the chamber with a Talon Tip for that all important Shot #1. It's worth the extra effort to enhance the capabilities of the 1st shot. Of course in a bolt gun like 308 or others then tips are standard and work great.

I am so sorry, I have very little interest in .308 caliber. In fact, if it were not for these bullets, I doubt you could interest me enough to mess with it at all. And even now, my interest is starting to fade somewhat. I had to play with 308 Winchester today, only working with AA 2520, and no, I am not going to put anymore effort into 308. I have the 100 gr ESP Raptor at 3280 fps, zero issues, and nearly out of powder capacity, so that is about all I am going to do with it. I will test a couple of loads with the same powder with the 130 ESP Raptor, and that is all I am messing with it. I have better things to do than to dick around with a .308.

OK, how does the above terminal tests compare with other 30 cal bullet terminals I have done?? I did not remember either, so I looked back on my own .308 terminal test data! I found exactly only 3 entries recorded. So I have only tested 3 other bullets in .308 in my life! That should say something to you! First was a 165 Swift A Frame at 2929 fps muzzle--50 yard impact 13 inches total penetration. Then a 180 gr Woodleigh PP at 2831 fps muzzle--50 yd Impact 14 inches total penetration. Last a 180 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2902 fps muzzle--50 yd impact 9 inches total penetration. All done on 5/7/2007, no impact velocities taken. And NO I am not messing with testing other bullets in .308. I don't have the time, nor the interest. Maybe the 130 Raptor, and that will be it.

Which, I have to say, I have been very envious of RIP's shooting abilities of late, and some of the targets he has posted! I have also been trying my best to out shoot the RIPPER, but have just not made it quite yet--today that 308 and the 100 Raptor may have come close? I keep trying!

Good shooting.
OK, perspective time. A 30-30 with a 100 grain raptor can out penetrate and out damage conventional bullets in a 308? Wow!
Have you done any flat point testing in the 100 grain 308 Raptor? I'm guessing 30" of penetration.
Thanks Michael!

Uugghh! Rat shit on the BIG BORE thread!

Lol
Medium bores acting like big bores.

Doc M,
You do very well despite your rifles of low weight and also lacking in ugliness.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Uugghh! Rat shit on the BIG BORE thread!

Todd

Uuggh is Right! You ain't telling me nothing I don't know! But, couple of things that sorta helps justify it in my mind! 1. While we are "Big Bore" sorta chaps, no doubt, most big bore chaps do in fact have some rat guns around--while we might not care to admit, it's true. Who does not have a 30/30 laying around somewhere? JHC--I have a dozen. Have not shot one in 10 yrs probably. Went to my load data, had ONE load under 30/30, 10-12 yrs ago! HEH HEH..... How does one enhance any cartridge/rifle combination? THE BULLET! So this 100 ESP Raptor did in fact intrigue me into enough interest to perhaps breath a new life into such a nice little Rifle! Many youngsters start their hunting career off with one of these, I know of a couple right here at home, kids with 30/30s! This fall, I am going to make damn sure they have some of these loads for their great adventures, and hopefully reduce their chances of having a bad experience!

As for posting on our Terminal Thread--Yeah, but I can only keep up with so much, I depend on boomy to take it to the proper place.

I apologize, and beg forgiveness!

But will probably do it again!

HEH...............

Oh, and another thing, there are some 30/30 double rifles out there as I understand too?

HEH.....

Michael

Thank You RIP--Coming from you, I am humbled to say the least!!!!!

OK OK--screaming for big bores! Not sure if this qualifies, it does as strictly per the rules, but personally still deciding if 416 is actually big bore or not myself. But regardless thereof!

416 300 gr Raptors! I have some now! In 1:14 they indeed do just fine! One hole, if I would do my job proper! Stable in terminals, stable in the air, they are good to go.

I think in the larger capacity 416s you guys will like them a lot. For my own 416 B&M because of the depth of seating--if I use the tips to fit the magazine, I come up a bit short on velocity. In 20 inches I can run normal 300s out to 2650 to 2700 fps without issue. I run the 325 BBW#13 HP at around 2525 fps. And that is about what I can run the 300 Raptor at 2525 fps and stay under pressures, due to seating so deep to work the tip in the magazine. My next order of business is to seat the bullet further out, use the tip anyway, but not work through the magazine and see what I can do with it. But even still, the 300 Raptor at 2500 or less is nothing to sneeze at. I would rather have the Raptor at 2500 than all the other 300s out there at 2700.






Performance was very good. Penetration was very good as well. I did the test work with a short 416 B&M an 18 inch gun. So velocity had fell off a bit, but performance was still pretty spiffy.



My next order of business with this is to get some loads for the 416 Remington, as some folks may be interested in that. So I will try and get some data for it.

I also did a bit of work in the 416 B&M and made some more discoveries there that are important to the B&M guys out there, I will have to post that on the B&M thread.

Michael

Thank you, Michael.

I believe that the 300 grain talon will work at 2850 fps, too. And may penetrate even more than the 23". 23" should be safe for buffalo, so 25" will be even more secure.

PS: for those interested, the BC with the tip worked out to .380. I can hunt with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Stockbroker:

That's the stock I'd like for a 600 Overkill built upon my SS MRC PH action.

Beautiful!