Hook

At least i took my hat off during the day light.

Org

Michael

Sean made me a beleaver last year when he was here to hunt.The best is to get some one to use your bullets first then their eyes will open.I will on my 458 and my 50 B&m never use another bullet in my life.With the pettels off on the non con it still penatrated in a straight line.

Org

Org

Absolutely fantastic job. Pretty spiffy shooting as well with those irons! I am impressed, as I could not see 85 yds to begin with! Of course, you are a bit younger I believe! LOL..

I am pretty sure that is the first African Animal taken with the 50 B&M Alaskan! At least that I am aware of. Eland is no easy chore either. I am rather proud. By the way, I have the fellows name and email for importing the BBW#13s to South Africa, email me for it. Remind me! Won't be too long you will be needing some by the sounds of it! HEH......

Congrats, very proud of that one!

Michael

Michael
Thanks alot. Be sure to send me the e mail for the importer you are going to use. You will be getting more reports in the weeks to come about the 50 alaskan.
It is so much fun to shoot ammo is running low.

Keep well.
Org

Org.
Lesson 1 leave your dam hat on during the day time other wish the sun will fry your little brains right out of your head!!!!!!! and it covers the knots Lelani has whooped on you

Hi Michael,
I'm fairly new to this forum and have enjoyed reading heaps especially on your bullet testing. We live in Australia and work for 6 to 8 months of the year in remote Aboriginal Communities in the Northern Territory as volunteers with an Aboriginal Church Mission. I also get the opportunity to hunt "Bush Meat" with the local Tribal people every week or so.In the southern and central areas of the N.T. we hunt for Kangaroo,Bush Turkey and Emu but up in Arnhem Land we also hunt the occasional Buffalo. We use a .22Mag and .223 Rem for the smaller animals and then a .416 Ruger or .458 Lott for Buffalo. As we only hunt for Bush Meat could you please reccomend some of your projectiles for Buffalo both in the .416 and the .458. We are using a Ruger Alaskan in.416 Ruger(it's a fantastic little rifle) and a CZ Safari Mag.in .458 Lott both scoped with 1.5-5x20's, I am really confident shooting 400gn's from the .416 but have only recently bought the Lott so I'm still getting used to it and working with loads and lots of practice away from the bench. Another question, while shooting with Non-Cons where would the best spot be to shoot a Buff where meat damage would be minimum ? -possibibly a neck shot as the "petals" would do more damage to the central nervious system ? I'm also going to contact Paul T and see what he uses.
Thanks in advance
Regards, Bob

Hey Mack, from DownUnder!

WELCOME................. And BIG WELCOME TO AR...........

And thank you for the kind words, appreciated and hopefully you, many others, have learned a lot from our little adventure, I know I have....

NonCons for buffalo! They work, and they work well. In the Ruger 416, use the 325 NonCon, it matches up with the 350 Solid. You could also use the 370 NonCon, it does just as well. Either of those are hammers on buffalo in 416 caliber.

In 458 Lott, one has the 420 and 450 NonCons, either would do fine. I lean to the lighter side because of my B&Ms, however, the deal is, the more velocity, the more performance with these bullets. The 420 does a hell of a good job in 458 B&M and 458 Winchester, it will just do more in 458 Lott....

Well, meat damage.... Good question, since these bullets destroy internal vitals, and destroy lung tissue, I suppose for meat behind the shoulder through the lungs will put them down fairly quick. Big bull, hit through the shoulders however! Knock everything out... But I doubt you will be shooting big bulls on a meat hunt...

I don't like neck shot anything, too much of a chance to miss, of course if I were a better shot...............??

Do get in touch with Paul T, he can always help, and also don't forget that Meplat Firearm Services import the BBW#13s and you can get Daryl to get what you need.

No thanks needed Bob, we are glad to have you, welcome to the thread, and to AR as well again.

Michael

500gr. Hornady neck-spine shot and the game is over.

The day when I won't be able to hit this (puny target) which is only about 5" high and 80" long I will stop shooting and start believing in God.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
500gr. Hornady neck-spine shot and the game is over.

The day when I won't be able to hit this (puny target) which is only about 5" high and 80" long I will stop shooting and start believing in God.

Pyzda

Yes, Just keep your Snowmobile Helmet on and all things are possible........

Michael,
Thanks for your speedy reply.
Both your comments and Paul T's were very similar with projectiles and shot placement, the top third of the shoulder bone with a Non-Con should be the Hammer of Thor.
Now I will call Dayrl at Meplat Services and place an order.



Pyzda
As it so happens, Yes I do believe in God, And my first Buffalo was a one shot kill at 70 yards with a 220gn Partition between the eyes from a .300 Win Mag, cause thats the biggest cal. I owned at the time, thankfully now I have .416 and a Lott to play with.

Kind Regards to all.

Hey 458 mack -

Extended welcome as well.

Just for your info, regarding your .416, it will also whack those Buff pretty well. Certainly not under gunned on Buff. Use the NonCon and they'll die quickly. Ask Michael for the specific loading for your .416.

I do like the .458Lott, but sold mine after receiving my .458B&M.

Michael
Just talking to Dayrl and he suggested I give you a call about your previous work with the LOTT.If you have any loads that I can use possibly using Hogdon powders that would be fantastic.
I'm heading out to a mate's farm tomorrow to test some Lott and .416 loads. Should be fun!!!


LionHunter

Thank's, The .416 is a real pleasure to shoot and looking forward to working up .416 Ruger loads useing the Non-Cons and wacking Buffalo later this year.
Anyway
Now I'm off to the shed to do some loads.

quote:

Just talking to Dayrl and he suggested I give you a call about your previous work with the LOTT.If you have any loads that I can use possibly using Hogdon powders that would be fantastic.

458Mack

I just went through all my 458 Lott load data, and come up extremely short with Hogdon powders. At the bottom of this page you will find a pdf document where I did some load data with the 458 Win and 458 Lott with the BBW#13s, none were H powders however. Might be something of use to you however....???

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...tional-Research.html

Michael

Michael, given some of the recent testing that shows a bit lighter CEB with the tip may be the preferred way to go, I was wondering what your thoughts would be on the 404 Jeffery and Cape Buff. Other than I need to move up to something that starts with a .50, if I remain stubborn and stay with my 404 would I be better off with the 375 CEB with no tip ( won't fit in the mag with) or the 300 Raptor with tip. They both shoot exceeding well in my gun. If the thought would be that the 300 Raptor would be effective it would certainly be more versatile when used at a bit longer range on some of the smaller stuff?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

The 416 diameter has a 300 grain raptor and the 404 could be just as good if CEB would make one.

quote:

thoughts would be on the 404 Jeffery and Cape Buff. Other than I need to move up to something that starts with a .50

Hi Dave, first, Welcome to the thread, and Welcome to AR!!!!

From your statement above I see you have been reading some of my stuff! LOL.............

OK, I don't shoot .423, and all I remember is the 400/375 Combo, and I believe the 350/325 Combo for .423? I don't know of a 300 Raptor being done in .423, although I don't know all that Dan does, especially in calibers I do not shoot or test, or order myself. Regardless of that, if there is not, it can be done easy enough.

I did test the 300 gr Raptor in 416 however, and one can correlate 416/423, as I believe results would be pretty close to the same, possibly getting a bit more velocity than what I tested from your 404 Jeffery.
When I tested the 416 300 Raptor I got 23 inches of penetration at starting velocity of a tad over 2400 fps and impact at 48 yds of 2330 fps. 23 Inches of penetration is well within buffalo penetration!
With todays NonCons I am looking for, and would like to have anything from 16-18 Inches MINIMUM, and I would start to be concerned a bit under 16 inches. I like Penetration. With a conventional bullet I like 20+. Example and comparison, 500 Nosler Partition, 500 Woodleigh Soft, 500 Swift A, all from 458 Lott at 2250-2275 fps drive from 19-24 inches max.



.423 300 gr Raptor for buffalo. Sounds crazy, I can't tell you what to do, but I would do it myself. The penetration would be there.

Michael

Remember I used the 416 325 noncon on buff with good results--

Did this thread lose its "Sticky" status?

Michael, thanks for the info. Dan does indeed make a 300 grain Raptor for the 404 Jeffery. I just received 300 of them a couple of weeks ago. You also have the choice of 325 grain and 375 grain Non-cons. The 300 grain raptors should run between 2500 and 2600 fps. I have not run them over the chrono but will soon and report back. I have run the 320 grain GS customs at 2550. Based on this feedback I'm inclined to use the .423 300 grain Raptors in Tanzania this summer.

Thanks,
Dave

With the 375 HH able to get 300@ 2,600 I would think one could get about 2,700 FPS with the extra capacity of the 404 and minimal bearing surface. That should give pretty flat shooting for PG and DG minus elephant.

MIchael and others,

I have another question on the 300 grain Raptor .416".

The CEB website lists 14" as the slowest rate of twist for the .416 300 grain Raptor. It's BC is a very respectible .36 or .34, depending on source. I can hunt 300-yard eland with that. However, my CZ 416Rigby's use 16.5" twists. So the question becomes, how crucial or how demanding is that 14" twist specification? When I did the math using the bullet length and tip length the stability factor for that bullet at 2950 fps came out over 2.0. Normally, that is great and there shouldn't be any problem.

So to rephrase the question, to the point, has anyone tested this Raptor in a 16.5" barrel?
What kind of accuracy was achieved at 100 yards?

Of course, I would love to do the testing myself, but the rifles are on a different side of the world from where I would do the load "development". While I can adjust powder after arrival, if need be, I can't fix inherent instability after going to all the work to ferry over the rounds.

So has anyone tested the 416 Raptor in a 16.5" barrel?

Dave you have a PM...

Tanz,

Something to remember is that the ESP Raptor bullets when the Talon Tip is installed act very similar to long VLD bullets which is why twist rate is so important.

I would send an email to Dan and ask him directly. He's very familiar with the velocity and twist rate issues relating to the various VLD bullet styles as the CEB MTH and MTAC bullets, as well as the new ER Raptors fall within the ‘VLD bullet style” category…

How and why was this thread removed from the "Sticky" status at the top of the board?

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
How and why was this thread removed from the "Sticky" status at the top of the board?

I was going to ask the very same question. Why no sticky? This has to be the most valuable and relevant thread on the entire forum!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
How and why was this thread removed from the "Sticky" status at the top of the board?

I was going to ask the very same question. Why no sticky? This has to be the most valuable and relevant thread on the entire forum!

George fixed it for us.

Thanks George!

Good job, George. Now, if you'd just ban artshaw - the latest incarnation of repeat offender Larry Root - all will be well.

Moderator is a no fun job.

Thanks a bunch George!

Yes, I see George has the thread stuck now! Thanks.

Well I have some terminals, but don't have them quite ready, still recording some data on that.

I do have something to share with you guys, I am rather pleased about, actually a few things.

First, today I found out that right here in Horry County, South Carolina, our Teachers have been given a choice to "Carry Or Not To Carry.... In School"! Mercedes teacher, a very nice young lady, is currently taking her Concealed Carry classes, once completed, she will be able to carry her handgun and keep it IN CLASS.............. All Teachers here have that choice now... Our schools here are no longer a "Gun Free Hunting Ground" for the NutBags!!! So, NutBags beware, you will meet swift Justice and total resistance here in our schools! We Will Not Be Held Hostage and We do Not Negotiate!

Next thing we are very much looking forward to is Our Pal, and I mean all of ourselves, John from North Fork is pitching up here on Friday. I pick him up at the airport Friday morning and he is spending the weekend here with us. There will be much talk of BULLETS, I am sure plenty of shooting, plenty of sipping Shine and other adult beverages and whatever else we can find to get into! We are looking forward to the visit from North Fork!!!!!!!! Big Fun this weekend.

Just a couple of things I wanted to share this evening with you!

Michael

quote:

First, today I found out that right here in Horry County, South Carolina, our Teachers have been given a choice to "Carry Or Not To Carry.... In School"! Mercedes teacher, a very nice young lady, is currently taking her Concealed Carry classes, once completed, she will be able to carry her handgun and keep it IN CLASS.............. All Teachers here have that choice now... Our schools here are no longer a "Gun Free Hunting Ground" for the NutBags!!! So, NutBags beware, you will meet swift Justice and total resistance here in our schools! We Will Not Be Held Hostage and We do Not Negotiate!

Definately great news! Now if the rest of the country wasn't so stupid they'd do exactly the same thing...

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

First, today I found out that right here in Horry County, South Carolina, our Teachers have been given a choice to "Carry Or Not To Carry.... In School"! Mercedes teacher, a very nice young lady, is currently taking her Concealed Carry classes, once completed, she will be able to carry her handgun and keep it IN CLASS.............. All Teachers here have that choice now... Our schools here are no longer a "Gun Free Hunting Ground" for the NutBags!!! So, NutBags beware, you will meet swift Justice and total resistance here in our schools! We Will Not Be Held Hostage and We do Not Negotiate!

Definately great news! Now if the rest of the country wasn't so stupid they'd do exactly the same thing...

Awesome news!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

First, today I found out that right here in Horry County, South Carolina, our Teachers have been given a choice to "Carry Or Not To Carry.... In School"! Mercedes teacher, a very nice young lady, is currently taking her Concealed Carry classes, once completed, she will be able to carry her handgun and keep it IN CLASS.............. All Teachers here have that choice now... Our schools here are no longer a "Gun Free Hunting Ground" for the NutBags!!! So, NutBags beware, you will meet swift Justice and total resistance here in our schools! We Will Not Be Held Hostage and We do Not Negotiate!

Definately great news! Now if the rest of the country wasn't so stupid they'd do exactly the same thing...

Awesome news!

There is nothing like waking up to some great news.

To bad here in Michigan the only time you can have a gun on school property is in your vehicle when dropping off or picking up your child.

We have a group here called Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners they have a web site on there is a list of business and public building the do not allow concealed carry guns.

To say the least my family and me will not step foot in any of these places.

In my school district here in Texas they never went "gun free". they have had several teachers with CC permits armed on campus for years. If you look for it they are NO "gun free zone" signs around the school.

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
In my school district here in Texas they never went "gun free". they have had several teachers with CC permits armed on campus for years. If you look for it they are NO "gun free zone" signs around the school.

Cross that's even better information!

Just something for you boys here on terminals, that might not venture down to the double thread.....

Doing some 458 Shooting, in 458 B&M..........





The barrel we were shooting was pretty THIN........ We hack Sawed it off to show........


















Full report is posted on the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future" thread on the Double Forum.....

Just some things to look at is all.....

Michael

How about a shout out for Doc M., B&M and CEB.

Just been reading my NRA mag for March 2013, and they cite the 50 B&M Alaskan with 395 gr CEB bullets in an SSK 1895 Marlin. Michael McCourry is listed as co-developer of the round. Found in the article "Modern Bullets and Lever Actions" on page 217.

Michael,

Why the copper color in the groves of the steel CEB #13s?

465H&H

465H&H,

Copper cleaner bullets!!!!
Actually I think that color is from heat. A few of the bands turned blue which is about 1000 degrees.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by whelenite:
How about a shout out for Doc M., B&M and CEB.

Just been reading my NRA mag for March 2013, and they cite the 50 B&M Alaskan with 395 gr CEB bullets in an SSK 1895 Marlin. Michael McCourry is listed as co-developer of the round. Found in the article "Modern Bullets and Lever Actions" on page 217.

I saw that yesterday.... Did not know anything about it.... Layne is all over that 50 BM Alaskan...

I have North Fork John here this weekend, and he liked the photo with the NOrth Fork Box on the first page.... HEH....

Sam, john and I have finished all the Blueb=erries...... In the quart jar........ LOL.......

465HH.... Idon't nkow! Listen to sam.Yes...
M