Good luck Michael. Hope you have a great hunt. Wildebeest and zebra will be a great test. I really like the 9,3 too!

http://www.spiegel.de/internat...,1518,824212,00.html

Watch out , Germans are breeding these terrible beasts !

The 9.3 B&M is quite a nice design, nestled in between the 338WM and 375HH in capacity and bore, and in a smaller package. It should be a GREAT zebra gun, at any range you choose.

Blessings on the trip.

PS: what is an $800 equivalent of a 9.3 B&M? Hmm---a Ruger Alaskan 375 Ruger? 20" barrel, only a slightly bigger 'standard' length action, 3 position safety, crisp (unadjustable) trigger, and in a very practical but yes, ugly, Hogue stock. A beauty of practicality.

The B&M's, to their credit, seem to exude essential beauty with their Accurate Innovation stocks and finely finished actions. Very impressive. The zebra and wildebeest will be impressed, too, without a doubt, as a Raptor invites them to the local villages for dinner. We can almost smell the grilling meat mixed with the musty smell of thatched roofs, while the striped skins dry against the vibrant green forest stretching into the distance. . . .

Thanks Tanz!

The little 9.3 B&M. Paired with the right bullet, and I think, believe, and have tested the 210 Raptor extensively, so once again I go with a bullet that has proven itself in the lab, and full expectations of success, IF I DO MY PART! The 210 Raptor at 2900 fps, and somewhere around .300 BC most certainly has potential. I really want to keep ranges shorter on most things, and will pass on longer shots as I want to see as much potential as possible. Maybe I will try a few shots on impala at longer range (if I can see them past 50 yds) HEH..... Just to see what happens.

The .500 350 Raptor is really performing good, and whatever happens there I definitely want inside 50 yd shots to do a more complete study for the possibility of thin skinned dangerous game with that bullet.

And there is no way to compare the big bulky Ruger to the fine slim lines of a Winchester M70! Like a Glock in one hand, a find 1911 in the other! LOL................ Of course the latest 50 B&M is now in the hands of our own Ken K--Alaskan-Ox, and it's on a Ruger Alaskan!

Anticipation is beginning to creep in now! Anticipation of hassles with ammo, rifles, airplanes, blah blah blah! One step at a time! Leaving this afternoon!

Once on the ground and packing the back of the Nissan with 6 big heavy bags, I will have arrived and anticipation of greater things to come will start to creep in!

Michael

That 9.3 would probably do well on the leopard you so love to hunt.

Stay well and have a great trip!

Doc

Yep, I reckon that 9.3 B&M and that 210 Raptor would turn a leopard inside out. I most likely will never experience that however, as I have no intentions of EVER again sitting in leopard blind. I would for sure bust one if I caught him out however, but chances of that are rather slim, although I have seen that once, but never got a shot.

Thanks--will most likely have some sort of internet service while there, at least from time to time, if so, I will be in touch.

Michael

Michael:

Do me a favor. Throw some 280 grain BBW#13s in you bag and shoot a zebra with one of those

Dave

Had you made that request yesterday I could have obliged you. Right now, ammo is secured, packed, and in the truck RTG. (Ready To Go). I did think of loading a few of the BBW#13 Solids and NonCons, but in the end I passed, because of the total longer term use of the 9.3 B&M in Africa. I loaded completely with 210 Raptors--I did load 20 with the solid end out however, and I do intend to use a couple of those. The overall penetration of these is of course short of the 280 BBW#13, however if it does well, this will give us an idea of how well the 280 will do.

Michael

Good luck Michael!
Kick some ass! Or Zebra in this case.
Will you be updating us from the other side of the pond?

Boomy
Thanks. When I get internet service, yes I will be keeping up contact. Not sure of where I am going, have G3 service, so if there is cell service, I can get online.

Michael

Michael,

God speed and good luck.

Leave something for us to shoot----

SSR

Doc M,
Break a leg!
Bon voyagee!
May the red gods smile upon you!

I took longer to trim my brass than expected (100 pieces). The 49-10 (aka 12.7x68mm Magnum Tornado) will be tested with several CEB bullets while you are gone.
Will post here to keep the thread "warm."
I have finally posted this .500-caliber cartridge at www.ammoguide.com:

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=842

Doc M,

Bon Voyage. Make sure you blow Diana a kiss, but puhleeze make sure the shampoo is stocked up.

Looking forward to more great reports on the great CEB bullets!

Warm regards

Glad to see RIP's 49-10 on Ammoguide.

It's picture looks just like its cousin, 500AccR (.511", + 1 grain capacity), with the addition of a more appropriate 7000 ftlb. nominal rating for both of the 'short-Rigby' capacities.

We look forward to the reports, including powder charges. Jeffeoso has been recommending H335 for such capacity/bore but it might be nice to see some tests of H4895 and IMR8208 too.

Yes,

NICE to see it at ammoguide.....
Looking forward to my first REAL Big Bore Shooting on April 21st.
It´s going to be a .577 Nitro.....

Best
2RECON

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Glad to see RIP's 49-10 on Ammoguide.

It's picture looks just like its cousin, 500AccR (.511", + 1 grain capacity), with the addition of a more appropriate 7000 ftlb. nominal rating for both of the 'short-Rigby' capacities.

We look forward to the reports, including powder charges. Jeffeoso has been recommending H335 for such capacity/bore but it might be nice to see some tests of H4895 and IMR8208 too.

416Tanzan,
Yepper, the AmmoGuide algorithm case capacities:
Useful as ratios for comparing the relative external sizes of the cases as unitless numbers.
Does not take into account the brass construction internally, of course.
Not actual gross water capacities, just ratios.

.500 MDM Ultra: 114.7 grains (.500-cal)
49-10: 122.9 grains (.500-cal)
500 AccRel: 124.0 grains (.510-cal)

All three of the above are bigger than those numbers indicate.

Actual/Measured: 49-10 brass gross water capacity is 131.4 grains
That is about 8.5 grains greater than what AmmoGuide calculates,
and that is with super-duper .338 Lapua Magnum brass used to fire form it.


One of the early max loads posted by Doc M for his .500 MDM: 500-grain CEB at 2617 fps muzzle vel. for 7607 ft-lbs KE.
His .500 MDM loads are a roadmap for the 49-10.

All three of the above "Five Hundreds" can do 500 Nitro Express ballistics at the low end, and much more at the high end,
but the bullet hole is 0.010" smaller diameter with two of them.

Shooting of the 49-10 was delayed last weekend, coming up this weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by 2RECON:
Yes,

NICE to see it at ammoguide.....
Looking forward to my first REAL Big Bore Shooting on April 21st.
It´s going to be a .577 Nitro.....

Best
2RECON

2RECON,

I noted one typo in my AmmoGuide entry.
Hope I spelled your name correctly.
Don't break a clavicle with that 577 NE.

quote:

One of the early max loads posted by Doc M for his .500 MDM: 500-grain CEB at 2617 fps muzzle vel. for 7607 ft-lbs KE.
His .500 MDM loads are a roadmap for the 49-10.

I think that Michael did that 7600ftlb. load with a special 10X powder and he has pulled back from them because of wild pressure fluctuations. I wouldn't rate a 114 grain 50 cal cartridge for 7600. That looks a tad high, 7000 is a more conservative ceiling, While I expect that the 500AccR could do it safely, I will be looking for an accuracy node at 6500-7000 ftlb. If accuracy ends up at a higher energy, so much the better. On my own comparison charts I list the 500AccR at 7300 ftlb.

Michael should be elbo deep in Zebra guts by now looking for petals I hope
Knock em dead!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Michael should be elbo deep in Zebra guts by now looking for petals I hope
Knock em dead!

I was wondering how many Raptors he has used yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Michael should be elbo deep in Zebra guts by now looking for petals I hope
Knock em dead!

I was wondering how many Raptors he has used yet.

I betting, one each.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Michael should be elbo deep in Zebra guts by now looking for petals I hope
Knock em dead!

I was wondering how many Raptors he has used yet.

I betting, one each.

Keith

Could be anywhere from one to five shots each...just remember, Michael keeps shooting as long as they're still wiggling. Though I'm leaning more towards one each so he doesn't run out of ammo.

Capo,

So true. This should be a fascinating hunt report with the Raptors and the non cons. I hope he gets some connectivity going soon!

Esskay,

Definitely should be frustrating, tantalizing, and fascinating. We’re in the frustrating phase right now awaiting word of just how well the Raptors work. Michael will finally get internet access and tantalize us with descriptive tidbits – but likely no photographs (unless he finds some reasonable access speed). And finally, once he gets home, rests up a bit and waters the brush fires from work – we’ll finally get the all the scuttlebutt along supporting photographs.
And the peanut gallery just waits.

I imagine Boomy is on ‘pins and nettles’ waiting to hear how well his babies did on their first plains game outing.

Good Luck Boss,
We'll look forward to hearing from you soon.

Cheers, John

BTT,
Until Bwana Michael returns, anxiously awaiting field reports on light for caliber ESP Raptors and DGBR solids and NonCons ...

My puttering at the range yesterday:
.500/411-gr ESP Raptor, brass with plastic tip + H4198
.500/430-gr MTH copper pointy hollow point + H322
.500/500-gr DGBR brass solid + H322
I did fire the first half of the batch at the range yesterday in the 49-10 rifles,
one rifle for brass, one rifle for copper.
Will clean and get back to finish the testing before reporting.
More powders to come: Benchmark, RL-15, RL-17, and more H322, definitely a good one.

Heard from Michael458's PH this morning and Michael is out of money and ammo. He has so far shot 2 Zebra,2 Hartabeast,1 eland and 1 wildabeast. Says the Raptors are knocking them all down. Thats all the details I got. Look forward to Michael giving us a full report.

Sam

Out of ammo?!?!?!?!
Tell him the natives are restless and can't wait for his reports and safe return.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Heard from Michael458's PH this morning and Michael is out of money and ammo. He has so far shot 2 Zebra, 2 Hartabeast,1 eland and 1 wildebeest. Says the Raptors are knocking them all down. That’s all the details I got. Look forward to Michael giving us a full report.

Sam

Good Lord! How many times is he shooting each critter??? They must be downright perforated!!!

Well he was taking over a lot of 500 MDM also--



So he COULD be running low on 9.3



can't wait for reports and pics-


SSR

Hey Guys

I have almost no internet service where I am, so brief I will be, not even sure I can get this thru.

Teasing Sam--Not anywhere close to being out of ammo. Shooting both 9.3 and 500 Raptors--Extreme is the word. Massive damage. 1/2 drop to the shot, the other half might run 25 yds before stone cold dead. NO BULLETS RECOVERED! ALL EXIT. Longest exit with 350 Raptor on a frontal oryx is 3 ft of animal, exit. 210 Raptor 9.3 B&M on hartebeast blades reach the chest cavity wall, far side. 9.3 210 Raptor exits zebra broadside, blades in lungs massive tissue damage. Even lung shot animals drop where they stand, never move again. Never seen anything like this. Have lot's of ugly photos, but no way to get them uploaded now. Lot's of photos with blades going through lung tissue. Massive shock and trauma.

All is good--really have only shot for 2.5 days, going to get serious next 3 days. Have 10 or so animals in the dirt. Have much more to go.

Hope this gets through. Be in touch soon as I can get any sort of service.
Michael

Awesome!
Maybe an email to a forum member might be easier and can be posted for you.
Glad to hear things are going well. We are all rooting for ya! Thanks for the update. Hope you are having a blast.

Question to the forum. The damage done to the lungs seems to be extensive. Is it a fair assumption that the shot in the lung area renders the lung completely inoperable and the animal has had its last breath before the hit? No more oxygen and the animal can't run more than 25 yards because no more oxygen combined with shock, tissue damage with blood loss means DRT or short distance run. Is that a good summation?

Michael...very good to hear that both Raptors caliber/weight bullets are working as designed. This bodes very well for all other big bore ESP Raptors!

From the Peanut Gallery:
Great concept Boomy. Sam and Michael...tremendous job at proof of concept. Dan...Excellent job of turning concept to finished proven product with all of the little tweaks that have been involved!
To all!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Hey Guys

I have almost no internet service where I am, so brief I will be, not even sure I can get this thru.

Teasing Sam--Not anywhere close to being out of ammo. Shooting both 9.3 and 500 Raptors--Extreme is the word. Massive damage. 1/2 drop to the shot, the other half might run 25 yds before stone cold dead. NO BULLETS RECOVERED! ALL EXIT. Longest exit with 350 Raptor on a frontal oryx is 3 ft of animal, exit. 210 Raptor 9.3 B&M on hartebeast blades reach the chest cavity wall, far side. 9.3 210 Raptor exits zebra broadside, blades in lungs massive tissue damage. Even lung shot animals drop where they stand, never move again. Never seen anything like this. Have lot's of ugly photos, but no way to get them uploaded now. Lot's of photos with blades going through lung tissue. Massive shock and trauma.

All is good--really have only shot for 2.5 days, going to get serious next 3 days. Have 10 or so animals in the dirt. Have much more to go.

Hope this gets through. Be in touch soon as I can get any sort of service.
Michael

Sounds like you have a great time and that the Raptors are doing a great job too.
I can't wait to read the full report and look at all the ugly photos.

Hope you will continue to have a great time!

Thank you. Huge work done by Sam, Michael and Dan to make these Raptors go from the egg of an idea to stone cold killing machines. I'm curious to see what the solid end will do but they can't keep the hollow point end in yet !

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Michael...very good to hear that both Raptors caliber/weight bullets are working as designed. This bodes very well for all other big bore ESP Raptors!

From the Peanut Gallery:
Great concept Boomy. Sam and Michael...tremendous job at proof of concept. Dan...Excellent job of turning concept to finished proven product with all of the little tweaks that have been involved!
To all!

Thanks Boom Stick! Hey it was your idea!

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Thanks Boom Stick! Hey it was your idea!

Sam

If you never made the prototype I think it might still just be a post. I hope to hunt Africa with them some day like Michael.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Question to the forum. The damage done to the lungs seems to be extensive. Is it a fair assumption that the shot in the lung area renders the lung completely inoperable and the animal has had its last breath before the hit? No more oxygen and the animal can't run more than 25 yards because no more oxygen combined with shock, tissue damage with blood loss means DRT or short distance run. Is that a good summation?

Boom stick,

Sounds like a very logical explanation.

Doc M, great to hear from you...keep making the offerings to Diana

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Question to the forum. The damage done to the lungs seems to be extensive. Is it a fair assumption that the shot in the lung area renders the lung completely inoperable and the animal has had its last breath before the hit? No more oxygen and the animal can't run more than 25 yards because no more oxygen combined with shock, tissue damage with blood loss means DRT or short distance run. Is that a good summation?

Several hunter/writers hold that a lung shot, a shot that collapses both lungs, will drop an animal faster than a heart shot. For some game, a high heart shot will collapse both lungs and destory the arteries and veins accross the top of the heart.