Boomy can handle it, there is no doubt in my mind, he absorbs recoil like a sponge takes water! Then begs for more!

M

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

When should I expect this beauty???!!!

ZAP

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Have you seen the videos of me shooting?
Gladly!!!!
When should I expect this beauty???!!!

boomy

as soon as i reach the happy place, where i can do pro bono work for the fun of it
sadly i have not reached this place yet allthough somebody has shown me on a map where it is, and it seems that i am steering in the right direction, now i just need to keep that direction for a decade or so.

when i am coming to the states in january, i wil be very happy to let you shoot the 12 bore with sir sam's 690 grain slugs at 2000 fps in a 7 pound gun, it did rock my boat and the waters under it quite a bit.

best

peter

I'm Back! Clean up duty has been done! I am on the range again!

I had a few things I wanted to look at today. First up is a little 405 gr .500 caliber bullet pretty much that Sam designed for our 50 B&M Super Shorts. It has what I am calling a BBW Nose profile, Sams own. I tested a couple of larger versions some weeks ago, very good results and then the #13 profile hit us, and this nose profile took a back seat.

I got a lot more than I expected, far more. I expected 40-45 inches. To date, nothing has gone over 44 inches in the 50 B&M Super Short, until today. This is very incredible and totally unexpected. I suppose that SD can surely now be thrown out the window as a totally useless, and antiquated number that has outlived it's usefulness. With todays modern bullets, SD is no longer a factor.




I wish I had taken some photos of the loaded cartridges, this bullet really makes for a handsome looking cartridge!

Michael

Sam made some heavy samples of the BBW #13 in .500 caliber to test in the 500 MDM. So I really wanted to see if we were going to break any new records in the test medium, we didn't, but we got very close!

Last but not least! I received a shipment of 1000 of the new 9.3 caliber 260 gr Bullets from Cutting Edge Yesterday! We tested the 270 gr prototypes the last couple of weeks, with good results. I was satisfied enough to approve this run and drop the weight to 260 grs to match up better with the 250 gr expanding bullets I use in the 9.3 B&M. Actually the production run is doing better than the prototypes I am happy to say, and I am very pleased with the results. This gives us a really good solid to match with the 250 gr bullets and use the 286 North Fork to match up with the 286 gr bullets. Now we have it all in 9.3 caliber!

I do have these available should anyone want any of them, just PM me.




They also shoot pretty good in my 9.3 B&M. I can live with this!



Michael

Not bad for a bastard file bullet!

Sam

Sam

Bastard file bullets are doing pretty spiffy I say! I have those .510 and .474 #13 samples you sent, but since CEB is cutting us some prototypes I think we will wait and test the prototypes when they arrive, should be this week maybe too. I hope they are doing the .500s too.

Michael

Michael,

You will get tired of waiting and shoot them I'll bet. You just won't be able to stand it.

Sam

Michael,

I wonder what that 540 BBW#13 would do going slower, maybe 2050 to 2150 fps. I can't believe it didn't out penetrate the 577.

Sam

Sam

Well I have it figured like this, the 577 had another 200 grs of momentum behind it, that helps some. For the itty bitty 540 gr .500 caliber bullet to equal that was good enough for me! HEH.

Not much can get past 65 inches of this medium! Anyway, 40 inches is more than enough, most important is 100% dead straight, no veering off course! I hate tumbling, veering bullets, just plain pisses me off!

M

Let Us not forget, we have people in the field right now. Mike I think is still in Africa, with his 470 and the North Forks! My buddy Lou is in Canada for moose right now with the 50 B&M and 416 B&M, both Brass HP Non Cons! I am pretty sure Austringer has left for buffalo with the 450 North Fork Bonded core we tested a few weeks ago. B&M Enthusiast John Hlaudy is leaving in October for elk with his 375 B&M, I forget the bullet? But as these guys return I am looking forward to the bullet reports!

After all, lets not forget that this is exactly what this entire thread is all about, hopefully it is allowing us to make better choices for the bullets we use in the field!

Now lurkers out there, please, if you have some field experience with any of the bullets we test, please speak up, tell us about what you saw, learned, and how things worked.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Let Us not forget, we have people in the field right now. Mike I think is still in Africa, with his 470 and the North Forks! My buddy Lou is in Canada for moose right now with the 50 B&M and 416 B&M, both Brass HP Non Cons! I am pretty sure Austringer has left for buffalo with the 450 North Fork Bonded core we tested a few weeks ago. B&M Enthusiast John Hlaudy is leaving in October for elk with his 375 B&M, I forget the bullet? But as these guys return I am looking forward to the bullet reports!
Michael

Good to hear... And I am leaving this friday for Zim. Have 3 (maybe 4) ele bulls on quota. Will use my 458 AR with 500 grs DGS solids and 500 grs Barnes Banded Solids - both loaded to 2300 fps. I`M READY

Buffalo

Reports when you return!!!!

We tested both right here, the 500 DGS did dandy in the 458 Lotts at 2200-2250 as I recall, you bugged hell out of me to get it done I do remember! HEHEH. Of course, it did not do so good in the construction tests???

500 Barnes Banded always does good, I have used it in the field too, and it's a big hammer, deep diver! Yes, you are ready! Talk to AI about stocks????

Michael

I expect reports from all the guys in the field from the bullets we have tested right here in the medium! Confirm, Confirm, Confirm! I have zero doubts that each will be successful in the endeavors in which they have embarked upon! I can't test all of them in the field, so these field reports are needed to add to our data!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

I wonder what that 540 BBW#13 would do going slower, maybe 2050 to 2150 fps. I can't believe it didn't out penetrate the 577.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sam

Well I have it figured like this, the 577 had another 200 grs of momentum behind it, that helps some. For the itty bitty 540 gr .500 caliber bullet to equal that was good enough for me! HEH.

Not much can get past 65 inches of this medium! Anyway, 40 inches is more than enough, most important is 100% dead straight, no veering off course! I hate tumbling, veering bullets, just plain pisses me off!

M

Guys…I’m thinking the 506gr BBW #13 with 67-68% meplat fired out of the 500 MDM at between 2300-2350fps just might hit or even exceed the magic 72” WMSL penetration.

Or perhaps take the new 540gr BBW #13 67-68% meplat and ‘Hollow Base’ the bullet…should come out to about 480gr weight…fired from the 500 MDM at around 2400fps just might hit or even exceed the magic 72” WMSL penetration as well!

But who knows…I’m just part of the peanut gallery.

Hey…while we’re musing here…how ‘bout this…(yes I know, I’m likely the only one interested in this one)…How about the 435gr BBW HP Spitzer ‘Hollow Based’ …should be what...perhaps 380-400gr weight? Would it drive as deep as the ‘Flat Base’ version as the same velocity??? Would it perhaps drive slightly deeper due to higher velocity???

Oh well…enough musing for today I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Michael,

I wonder what that 540 BBW#13 would do going slower, maybe 2050 to 2150 fps. I can't believe it didn't out penetrate the 577.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Sam

Well I have it figured like this, the 577 had another 200 grs of momentum behind it, that helps some. For the itty bitty 540 gr .500 caliber bullet to equal that was good enough for me! HEH.

Not much can get past 65 inches of this medium! Anyway, 40 inches is more than enough, most important is 100% dead straight, no veering off course! I hate tumbling, veering bullets, just plain pisses me off!

M

Guys…I’m thinking the 506gr BBW #13 with 67-68% meplat fired out of the 500 MDM at between 2300-2350fps just might hit or even exceed the magic 72” WMSL penetration.

Or perhaps take the new 540gr BBW #13 67-68% meplat and ‘Hollow Base’ the bullet…should come out to about 480gr weight…fired from the 500 MDM at around 2400fps just might hit or even exceed the magic 72” WMSL penetration as well!

But who knows…I’m just part of the peanut gallery.

Hey…while we’re musing here…how ‘bout this…(yes I know, I’m likely the only one interested in this one)…How about the 435gr BBW HP Spitzer ‘Hollow Based’ …should be what...perhaps 380-400gr weight? Would it drive as deep as the ‘Flat Base’ version as the same velocity??? Would it perhaps drive slightly deeper due to higher velocity???

Oh well…enough musing for today I guess.

Or just make a 577#13 at 750 grs and shoot it at around 2100 fps - I am sure it will exceed 75" easy

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Buffalo

Reports when you return!!!!

We tested both right here, the 500 DGS did dandy in the 458 Lotts at 2200-2250 as I recall, you bugged hell out of me to get it done I do remember! HEHEH. Of course, it did not do so good in the construction tests???

500 Barnes Banded always does good, I have used it in the field too, and it's a big hammer, deep diver! Yes, you are ready! Talk to AI about stocks????

Michael

Yep - my gunsmith will order a laminate from AI this week.. No plywood M - its hardwood

Im sure the bullets will perform well, especially the BBS of course. I`m using a 1-10" twist barrel - I`m certain that wont deduct from its performance..

Buffalo

OK, hardwood plywood! I am sure it will do nicely! You can send it to me, I will have my guy put elephant and buffalo all over it! Look a little better! HEH. I did that to some laminates I had, still don't like them, art work is great however. In fact it's extremely good.

I might have some photos of those, might post them on the B&M thread if I can find them.

Well, the bullets you have won't give you any issues! We tested the Hornady here, little smallish in the meplat, but even in my Lott it tried hard at 1:14. Now, in your 458 AR at 1:10, it will be much better, as we know faster twist takes care of less than optimum meplat. So I have little doubt about the Hornady DGS 500 gr doing it's job. Not only that, but 465HH has used them in the field with good reports too. The BBS, no doubts about it in my mind. And again, 1:10 will only increase it's already stable--stability! I would say you are Good to Go.

With you in the field with the Hornady DGS and BBS, and Mike in the field with the North Forks, others in the field with Non Cons--those 330 Brass HPs that I sent you are destined for moose with my buddy in Canada right now! We have a lot of guys out right now, and I can't wait to hear from everyone. Especially since I am taking the season off this fall!

Good luck should I not speak with you before Friday, be safe!

Michael

Thanks a lot Michael...



Ulrik

Ulrik

No thanks needed my friend!


Now, couple of other things! I tell you, shooters are the greatest folks there is. You guys know about Big Horn Armory right? The guys that are going to have the 500 S&W on that little lever action. Coming soon! Either "The Guy" or one of "The Guys" at Big Horn Armory got in touch with me a few days ago. Seems he has a M71 that he is tired of in minor caliber, and wants to have it converted to a 50 B&M Alaskan! Needless to say, I felt pretty decent about that. Anyway, we are exchanging emails back and forth, he had Hornady make a special run of 400 gr bullets in .500 caliber, I suppose for the upcoming lever gun. What a nice fellow, he just up and sends me 100 of them! I told him that was not needed, but he sent them anyway! They arrived today! Nice fellow, we should all look at getting one of those little rifles when it comes out! 50 B&M Super Short on a lever gun! A man have a 50 SS on a bolt, 500 SW in the lever, lot's of fun!




Well my partner in crime, SRose sent a little package too! A good one!





Now I bet all of you just think, "load and test them" eh? NO! Now one must measure and document each meplat, several times to make sure you have it close, then weighed and tagged, put in plastic bags, tagged and documented. Then have to figure out what to load, and load. Then photograph. All before testing!

Shooters are the greatest folks!

Michael

Sam

Looking around, it seems I tested the 305 brass HP only in the Marlin 45/70, and it did not do so well??? Was not stable enough.






Testing low velocity in the 458 B&M it did very well. Twist rates!




Then at under 900 fps impact, petals do not shear.




Add some velocity, and faster twist rate.



Michael

Michael,

Thanks for reposting the .458 Non con data. I can't wait to bust a deer with one of these.

Glad you liked your little package.

Sam

Now I am offline until 10. Oct.. Leave for Zim in an hour.. I have the same feeling in my stomach like a 10 year old child has the day before christmas

Buffalo,

Have a great trip!

Sam

Thanks. Small change in plans - we were supposed to stay all the time at Chete. Nice cause we could do some tigerfishing as well. But Nat. Parks are giving Graham (HHK) some shit. They now want 5000 USD for a management ele in Chete - supposed to be 2500 USD. Well Graham was very nice - Instead of a management ele he offered us a trophybull in Chete for 5000 USD and then we must move to Chirisa and/or Matetsi to take some more management eles at the agreed price of 2500..
I dont care as long as we will hunt eles... Trophies dont mean that much to me any more - the hunt in itself is much more important.. But if offered a trophybull for 5000 its difficult to say no...

What about you Sam - how did it work out with your elephantdeal??

Buffalo

Never met Graham, but he has always been great to work with on my hunts. HHK are great guys, all of them. I like Matetsi better than the Chete anyway! Graham will always look out for you if at all possible. Take the bull, then make the move, use up all the 458 AR ammo! HEH. Man, that's great! I had one of those deals with Graham and HHK back in 2002, took one big big body bull in Matetsi, and was about to take another when I had to leave unexpected because of my Mother being in the hospital. Did not get a chance to take the second bull!

Hammer Down, and be safe!

Michael

I have a few things put together for you guys this weekend! Been busy doing one thing or another, but did manage to get some test work in this week!

Sam sent in a nice set of .458s with his BBW profile, very nice looking bullets, did a great job. You see where one made it to 62 inches, 1 inch off course. That is not much of a big deal 1" over 62 inches, nothing that would concern me at all. Remember, this medium is very tough on stability, in animal tissue or elephant heads, you would never see this 1" off course, if it did go off course, more than likely it would not!

Still looking and studying my 416 B&M. I am leaning more and more towards the 370 North Fork FPS as my solid of choice for this cartridge. As we know I just cannot stabilize 400s in this cartridge with 1:14 twist, and that is dandy, I don't care really, the cartridge and rifles are designed for less than 400 gr bullets anyway. The more I mess with 416 anything, the more I am convinced that few of the solids are as stable as larger caliber. Before you all go bananas on me, I will explain what I think anyway. Some know this, some have thought about it, but for those that have not, let's look at something, meplat size!

Now we have learned to express our meplat size in percentage of meplat of caliber. That's good, this is how we keep up with it and understand it. However, there is a point at which size does start to matter! Now I have never been one to need to be concerned about the size of things, of course, but we have all heard that expression, one time or another, always of course applying to "others".

Now take a look at my chicken scratching below.



We see that in .458 caliber that a 70% meplat is actually .320 inches. 70% meplat on a .500 caliber bullet is .350. On a 577 Nitro, 70% is .415 inches! Now we go to .416 caliber and 70% is only .290 inches! 29 caliber! The meplat alone on a 577 Nitro bullet is the full caliber of a 416, just the meplat! Does size matter? Actual physical size of the meplat? I think it does at some point! Purely technical in most cases.

The test medium used here is tougher on stability than animal tissue! Under almost all circumstances, stability of a given bullet will be better in animal tissue than this test medium, I have said this all along. The point being, we want to test to the point we find where a bullet may fail, either in construction, or in stability, while others succeed or excel in the same medium.

We have been very fortunate to be able to test such a huge variety of bullets here, and a variety of calibers. This alone has taught us much.

Below we see the 370 North Fork FPS from one of my 416 B&M rifles. We see two with excellent stability to dead straight 58 inches, very excellent, and one that made it to 60 inches, but was 2 inches off course. Failure? No, not really. Again, in animal tissue you would never know or see this 2 inches off course at a full 60 Inches of penetration. This would equate back to around 7 feet of penetration in animal tissue. If in fact the bullet did go off course 2 inches over 7 feet, more than likely closer to the end of penetration anyway, of no consequence.

An excellent bullet.

The North Fork .500 caliber CPS is now in production! Yippie!!!!! I received my bullets yesterday. As you guys know, these are incredible bullets. I think they might be just about the perfect buffalo hammer! Lot's of penetration, and while some don't think size matters, I believe totally in "PENETRATION" Penetration matters! Penetration is Everything! And North Fork CPS expanding solid bullets penetrate like no other premium expanding conventional bullet, and will out penetrate most all Non Conventionals that I have worked with! These will be my buffalo bullets next year and the year after!

I intend to be able to give us lot's of field reports on these in the next couple of years! I will be putting them to work.

In addition as I understand these will be going on the website for sale to all. They should show up soon. 450 gr CPS and 375 gr CPS. .500 caliber.






I am a very happy camper with these, and can't wait to put them to work!

Michael

Well, as you may recall, I had some feeding issues with the prototype North Fork .500 caliber FPS, solids. A rather large meplat at 71% just would not feed reliably in my beloved Winchester M70s.

Now most know me good enough, that I WILL NOT sacrifice the quality of the bullet for anything, not the rifle, nothing. But I figured we could drop the meplat size down to 68% without sacrificing quality, or stability of the solids, and facilitate feeding in the Winchesters!

North Fork was good enough to work with me on this, and with the CPS order I made, they made some new prototype solids with 68% meplat. Well first thing yesterday, I Loaded up all of them, and started feeding them thru the rifles! Out of 5 different WIn M70s in 50 B&M, only one of them wanted to bump a little, it would feed on thru, but bumped some. The other 4 rifles feed them through slick as can be. This was the 450 gr solid in the 50 B&Ms. The one that bumps, that can be solved, that is a rifle issue, not a bullet issue.

All of the 50 B&M SUper Shorts just gobbled up the 375 gr North Fork FPS without a hitch.

So I was right so far, 68% meplat was not an issue for feeding, they would feed and function.
Now I hope I was right about not sacrificing stability? Fingers crossed?

Tested early this morning and was very apprehensive, if stability was lost at 68%, what would one do then? Can't go up, won't feed proper? Would be ugly if they were not stable!

Alas, my fears were for naught! Stability was EXCELLENT! Dead straight penetration with both the 450 gr FPS and the 375 gr FPS. Penetration increased over the 71% meplat version by 3 inches on both the 450 and 375 gr bullets. This was somewhat expected, just did not expect it to be so even across both the bullets. In the earlier tests the 450 gr 71% meplat drove to 53 inches at the same velocity, the 68% meplat to 56 inches, plus 3 inches. The 375 gr FPS at 71% drove to 43 inches, the 68% meplat version to 46 inches. All dead straight, no compromise in performance or stability. Very Excellent in my opinion!!!!!!

I approved final production on the 68% meplat version, both 450 and 375 gr bullets.

These too will be put on the North Fork website so all can order!

First I want to show the difference in the two meplat sizes. You won't need to ask which is which, amazing what a very small percentage difference can make!








That's what I have for you today!

Michael

The NFs have a good rep for being able to hold zero accross bullet types; CPS & FPS. I trust that is true with the new 50s in each bullet weight.

quote:

Still looking and studying my 416 B&M. I am leaning more and more towards the 370 North Fork FPS as my solid of choice for this cartridge. As we know I just cannot stabilize 400s in this cartridge with 1:14 twist, and that is dandy, I don't care really, the cartridge and rifles are designed for less than 400 gr bullets anyway…

… the 370 North Fork FPS from one of my 416 B&M rifles. We see two with excellent stability to dead straight 58 inches, very excellent, and one that made it to 60 inches, but was 2 inches off course. Failure? No, not really. Again, in animal tissue you would never know or see this 2 inches off course at a full 60 Inches of penetration. This would equate back to around 7 feet of penetration in animal tissue. If in fact the bullet did go off course 2 inches over 7 feet, more than likely closer to the end of penetration anyway, of no consequence.

Michael,

The nice thing about you having the 14” twist rate in some of your .416 and .458 B&M rifles is that the slight nuances of “bullet-length/twist-rate instability” begins to show its ugly head. I know it sucks for you but it’s a definite teaching experience for us.

And this is noted for your reading participants…you’ll need 350gr NF CPS and FPS bullets to stay within your .416 caliber/14” twist rate “sweet spot”…or you’ll need to go to at least 1:12” twist rate to eliminate the slight instability with the 370gr CPS and FPS bullets…

Sometimes it really sucks to be the first one out the door...

But…things are looking really good from the NF bullet availability standpoint. The .500 caliber 450gr and 375gr bullets did right superbly.

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
The NFs have a good rep for being able to hold zero accross bullet types; CPS & FPS. I trust that is true with the new 50s in each bullet weight.

IBT

I have not had too many to work with, and most of what I have had of the prototypes I have used for terminals. I did have a few tested for accuracy at 50 yds, and both CPS and FPS are same POI at 50, which is perfect for me. I will be doing more load development and POI tests when the production run of the FPS come in, which is only a couple of weeks out. If North Fork uses bulk US Postal, it might be SEVERAL WEEKS before I get them, but if they use UPS, then not so long! HEH.

I am very excited about these bullets, and very excited about North Fork! This CPS expanding is totally incredible, the hottest, meanest, toughest, non conventional expanding bullet I have ever dealt with, and all here knows how I feel about penetration, and these give you trauma and penetration, and it is going to be hard to top the CPS! These .500s CPS are absolutely perfect, expansion, trauma, penetration--ETP! I can't wait to start putting them to work!

Michael

Jim

Oh without doubt we are learning a lot about the 1:14 twist rates in 458 and in particular 416 caliber. We are not having any real issues in 458 caliber, but dropping caliber to 416 we start to see a lot of changes! While there is no issues with flying thru the air straight, there are issues with terminal stability! I probably won't build any more 416 B&Ms for myself, but I advise anyone building ANY 416 Anything, to at least go with 1:12 twist rates, 1:10 would even be better!

With the bigger capacity cases, 416 Rigby for instance, with a bullet at least 65% meplat or better, then velocity will help you as your twist rate is probably even slower than 1:14. Velocity can assist and does. At 1:14 or slower, honestly I would stay under 400 gr solids if possible for the very best terminals.

As I said, we are talking about premium performance, and some of the instability we see in the test work, will never be seen in the field, most of the time. I do have a couple of bugs in the back of my brain however from a tiny bit of field experience with 416. I had a 350 Barnes Banded once that just did not behave like I thought it should have. But, that was 1 bullet. And I can't attest to the exact angle on that rear shot of a buffalo either??? It was quick, and I can't really see the angle in my mind, so I can't really say. One of those "bugs" running around in your head that causes doubt sometimes, I am sure you guys know exactly what I am talking about.

I have little 416 experience on buffalo, none on elephant or hippo. So I can't say much about field work in that area. I can on thin skinned game, antelope and such. Excellent performance in that arena. I designed the 416 B&M around 350 gr bullets anyway. While it handles 400s at decent velocity--2250 to 2300 fps, the solids are NOT stable at those velocities and 1:14 twist rates. I would not use 400s in the field with the 416 B&M. 416 is very versatile in many areas, they say the same about 375, which I don't know about, and likely to never really catch on to that. I think I will stay a .458-.500 sort of chap for the heavy work. 9.3 to 416 for medium work!



Duck behind the sofa before the rocks start flying at me! Stoned to death!

Michael

Well, jumping ahead just a bit, thinking of .474 caliber North Fork FPS and CPS for the new upcoming 475 B&M--2.25 inch RUM case and the 475 B&M Super Short 1.65 inch case! Still waiting on reamers, rifles, dies, so it is going to be March as I estimate before the first round is fired. But, thinking ahead, and I want to do the same thing with North Fork with the .474s as we just did with the .500s!

Now, many of you have .474 caliber rifles out there! Many will see a need and use for these new bullets coming from North Fork.

Now before we get carried away, I am footing the bill on this, these bullets will work within the parameters of the B&M cases, they have to. So there won't be any heavy weights, but they will be properly designed with the right meplat size, most likely 68% with the FPS so that they will feed, function, and remain stable, as the .500s have. The CPS will have the same expanding capability as the .500s too, and the same ogive angles, I hope, as that is a fine looking bullet to me. But the weight will come in at I am guessing around 425-450 on for the 475 B&M and 350-375 on the Super Short version.

I mentioned 450 to North Fork, they do not agree. Well, the 450s in the .500s perform all out of proportion to the useless SD number, because of nose profile, meplat size, and design. So a lighter weight .474 caliber bullet would do the same. So what I have done is left this up to the EXPERTS, at North Fork. Weight/SD, is outdated, and nose profile and meplat exceed those parameters. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. Of course, again, it has to have the right nose to mouth length to fit in the parameters of the B&M cases and magazine lengths, but I bet a lot of money on this, those of you will larger capacity cases, like 470 Capstick, which I have a couple of those, will get a lot of proper use out of these bullets. Even those with doubles will find themselves with more choices I think too.

Because of North Fork and our CEB bullets too, I am looking more forward to the 475 B&Ms. Before this, the choices in .474 caliber bullets was rather weak to say the least, and the one reason I never went ahead with anything in .474 caliber.

Lord knows what I am going to do after .474! I guess I will have to get boomy working on something, I bet that won't be a problem!

Michael

What is the best twist for the 458? The 416?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
What is the best twist for the 458? The 416?

JWP

Got your message a little while ago, was out back in "lab #2" scrounging up a box to send SSK a couple of rifles, seems the 475 B&M and Super Short reamers have arrived! Time for a rifle now!

Thank you, wonderful comment you made, much appreciated. But the last few days, I think I have been talking to myself! Couple of replies only! Been over 400 views in the last week, and two or three replies? What's that about??? Maybe everyone is tired of my crap? If so, someone must just say so!

Best twist? Damn if I know! My opinion would be that 1:12 would be great for the 458s, 1:10 not going to hurt anything. All mine are 1:14 and I seem to have no issues I am aware of, as long as the meplat is 65% of caliber. Much below that, would need a faster twist.

416? I have not investigated what is easy available, but I think 1:12 is easy available. 1:12 will help a lot. I think if I was building a new 416 and it was my gun of choice, for the best terminal penetration with solids, I would see if I could get a 1:10 twist barrel. All mine are 1:14, and it's just not there for 400s at all, 370 starts to improve, 350 is ok, but I think could be better.

Of course, all this talk is for terminal penetration of solids, not stability for accuracy or anything else, do keep in mind all you lurkers out ther! 400 of you in a week!

M

Starting to get some reports in from the field now. Two today! One I will tell you, the other I am waiting on permission to post.

My pal Lou! Moose slayer! OK, he has a 416 B&M, and a 50 B&M! I sent him on the moose hunt with 330 gr brass HP non cons for his 416 B&M, doing 2580 fps in his rifle. Shooting excellent a few weeks ago when it left the compound! 3 in a hole at 50 yds, dead on the money time after time.

Left here with one of my 50 B&Ms loaded with 350 gr brass Non Cons at 2450 fps. Same story, dead on the money, 3 in a hole at 50, time after time!

Should have been a cake walk! We all know I have been waiting for a report on the Brass Non Cons we have been working with, and I am not in the field this fall to see for myself!

He made it to cell coverage this morning, and he wounded the moose at 50 yds with the 416 and "no recovery", no moose. Shot low and rear as I understand, no vitals of any sort! No report on bullet, no moose.

Last day, 50 B&M, 350 gr Brass HP, 2450 fps. Nearly dark, moose at 314 yards!!!!!!!! My boy is taking "pop shots" with the 50 at 314 yds! First shot too high, over the moose. Second shot might have been in the shoulder, except the moose turned his head at the wrong moment, and my boy centers him dead between the eyes, at 314 yards with the 50 B&M! About the only bullet report is that it split the skull right in the middle, moose falls over stone cold dead. No bullet recovery. I told him to pay a lot of attention to animal reaction when taking the bullets, I reckon I can imagine the reaction to a between the eye pop luck shot at 314 yds! Unbelievable! Of course, I did make the point that skill had nothing to do with that one! Oh well!


Still waiting on other reports!

Michael

quote:

My pal Lou! Moose slayer! Left here with one of my 50 B&Ms loaded with 350 gr brass Non Cons at 2450 fps. Same story, dead on the money, 3 in a hole at 50, time after time!

Should have been a cake walk! We all know I have been waiting for a report on the Brass Non Cons we have been working with, and I am not in the field this fall to see for myself!

He made it to cell coverage this morning...

Last day, 50 B&M, 350 gr Brass HP, 2450 fps. Nearly dark, moose at 314 yards!!!!!!!! My boy is taking "pop shots" with the 50 at 314 yds! First shot too high, over the moose. Second shot might have been in the shoulder, except the moose turned his head at the wrong moment, and my boy centers him dead between the eyes, at 314 yards with the 50 B&M! About the only bullet report is that it split the skull right in the middle, moose falls over stone cold dead. No bullet recovery. I told him to pay a lot of attention to animal reaction when taking the bullets, I reckon I can imagine the reaction to a between the eye pop luck shot at 314 yds! Unbelievable!

Of course, I did make the point that skill had nothing to do with that one! Oh well!

Still waiting on other reports!

Michael

Michael,

I did tell you the 50 B&M was extremely accurate with the 450gr bullets that I shot at the 200yds disc. Same with me, I held slightly high at 12 o'clock and the first shot was high over the disc at my POA. Next five shots I held at 10 o'clock - slightly inside the left side of the metal disc - and made five straight clanks on the disc. Couldn't identify all the holes shortly thereafter when we inspected the disc as we'd put quite a few holes into the disc at that point but would say the three I was able to identify were easily w/i a 6" circle which I though was pretty good as all 6 shots were taken offhand with no support.

Are those 350gr brass Non-Cons the same as the 380gr SST Copper Non-Cons that I have a couple of?

Boy can hardly wait for the CEB versions of the BBW HP Spitzer to arrive for testing!!! Maybe we'll have some 400yd bullets instead of 300yd bullets!