Remember a caliper is only a good ruler. Don't think you will measure accurately with it.

Jees-Ya'll have been busy! All this figuring and calculating giving me a headache! HEH......

Concerning the switcheroo, noncon, solid, hollowbase, boattail, tipped, non-tipped, do everything bullet, yep, I have it on the slate to have some done!!!!! It's true, it's coming in for test work, to a "Test Facility" near you! HEH HEH..... However, and this is me, no one else, I have not given it TOP priority over other things in the works, already! Personally I have the BBW#13 Carnivore at the top of the list right now and will be working towards the "Switcheroo" LOL.. I still think that pure economics is going to play a possible role in the double end bullet. At the very least, it costs the same as a noncon, which is more expensive than a solid? But what do I know? We march forward!

Also, the hi BC tips are in the works as well. Got them figured out, now it's time to have some on the shelves too! So I put priority on the Carnivore and the tips for now, and also we have to get some small bore BBW#13s in the works as well.

I have ordered the first switcheroos in a couple of different .458s to test. So they are in the works and in the schedule!

We are incredibly fortunate to have such folks like Dan and CEB to work with us on these things! Without that none of this would have been possible!



To other things, I now have a working range back. Air Con will be completed on Tuesday, minor things and cleanup to finish. Air Con is working GREAT--Shit, I don't know how much this is costing yet, but it is very very very good! Not sure I really want to know how much it is costing? Being down has put me slightly behind.

I have to get a 9.3 B&M up, running, sighted in with two scopes, loaded up and sent out no later than Wednesday! My no shooting buddy is taking one to Alaska for something, so I have him some of the 255 NonCons loaded up to around 2675 fps or so. He will be good to go out to about 250 yds as I calculate, and he can't shoot further than that anyway, in fact I am quite sure......Well, never mind!

Also, I did get 475 B&M Super Short dies in this week!!!! This means I go to work ASAP working load data this week, starting tomorrow along with sorting the 9.3 out. I put a strain gage on yesterday, and it's time to get that sorted out! They look very good! Will try and get some photos for you. Soon as I get "Up to Speed" with the Super Short, it will be terminal time with the new bullets from North Fork and CEB and see what a little .474 can do!

RIP and Jim--.423s look pretty spiffy!

Ya'll Enjoy the weekend please!

Michael

Doc M,
Get some rest now and then.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Remember a caliper is only a good ruler. Don't think you will measure accurately with it.

Good point.
With several different calipers I always get .423" on the low side and .424" on high side, or somewhere in between,
no matter how hard or easy or square or crooked I try.
Guess I better break out the micrometer and see if I can be more precise, if I can remember how to read the thing.
Pretty safe to say they are not under .423".

"Scope lightly and carry a big kick and you shall go far."
Theodore Roosevelt, from The Happy Hunting Ground.

Jim,
1.450" max length on the .423/400-grain FN heavy and a 1.250" max length on a .423/340-ish-grain FN light,
and let the weights fall where they will when those basic forms are hollow-pointed into NonCons ...
Yep, I could drink a Bud Lite and a Bud Heavy to that:

As they are, the 325, 350, 375, and 400-grain steps are neat and lengths will be perfect for the 404 Jeffery and 404 RIP.
I am loading about 80 bullets for initial testing in the Jeff (Varget) and RIP (H4350) ... should get a few anecdotes out of that!
That's as light and Heavy as I go on 404 anyway.

"Scope lightly and carry a big kick and you shall go far."
Theodore Roosevelt, from The Happy Hunting Ground.

Vernier Micrometer diameters on the CEB .423-cal:
0.4233" all 4 bands
0.4115" bore-riding nose diameter
0.4075" bore-riding shank diameter between the top 3 bands and the base-sealing last band.


"Scope lightly and carry a big kick and you shall go far."
Theodore Roosevelt, from The Happy Hunting Ground.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Dave,
Do you have any data for the .450 Marlin in your BLR that is above that as used in the 1895 Marlin? I.E., at higher pressures?

I do indeed although I too and still in the testing stage. I will pull out my notes later and send you a pm. Did you get a BLR?

Awesome news Michael
You are a busy bee!
Thanks to all involved.

The projects on slate should carry this thread past 200 pages quickly.
Lots to lean and lots of fun!

I was busy this morning making brass and doing some loading. I should be doing pressure traces starting in the morning. Have some 458 B&Ms with RL 10X I want to up the pressure on, and I found out this morning that I have a good solid connection on the 475 Super Short, so I will start that work. Starting first with the CEBs and North Fork .474s for the super shorts, then moving on to some other bullets as well. Terminals to follow that.

M

Good to see that you are all still busy in here

My eye is slowly getting better, but sutures only to be removed late October

Hopefully it will get well again, but maybe I will have to get used to shoot left hand.. Man - I have a bunch of right hand rifles, most of them custombuilds over the last 15 years.. man it will draw some heartblood to sell them...

Well - we will see.. If left hand shooting is my omly option - then a left hand shooter I will become. Will then start shooting some skeet again - a couple of thousands clays should help me a bit on the way I guess..
And then rifles will take over.. Guess I will be less ambitious regarding the number of rifles and will only have a 375 Ruger, a 458 AccRel and a 500 AccRel builded to start with..


Good to "see" you guys again..

Ulrik

Speedy recovey Buffalo
The 458 SS cousin the 475 SS might be good for a 475 Linebaugh Ruger #1 rechamber.
May I humbly suggest the 44 Super short? (or 430 SS) That could be good for some 44 Mag rechambers. Ruger has a micro bolt action in 44 Mag that looks like your set up for short actions with sights and all. Would be cool if that could work. Don't forget the 44 Mag lever actions. Think of it as 444 power in a much smaller package. The Super Short class shines in the 300 grain category and the would shine even more in the 230 to 260 grain bullets.

quote:

Buffalo wrote:
...
Guess I will be less ambitious regarding the number of rifles and will only have a 375 Ruger, a 458 AccRel and a 500 AccRel builded to start with..

well, your 'less-ambitious' inventory seems to reflect acquired wisdom. May this help you readjust with your eyes.

375 Ruger
458 AccRel
500 AccRel

All three are potentially able to be built in relatively lightweight platforms with standard-length actions.

All three have been developed in the last decade.

All three are legal in most African countries for buffalo and dangerous game.

One of them can be considered a true stopper (500 AccRel),
one of them can be considered a long-range rifle (375 Ruger),
and one of them (458 AccRel) is a blend of the other two that could substitute for either, being a standard-length-action that equals and betters the 458 Lott by a 6% case-capacity.

Acquired wisdom.
You have a challenge and an adventure ahead.
Blessings,
Tanzan

Thanks Boomy and Tanzan...

Boy...now that Michael has a fully AirCon range we don't hear from him for days!!! I wonder if the girls have to take his food out to him now?

Geez...I just turned the weather channel on and noticed that everything is flooding back East! Hope you guys are doing OK!

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Boy...now that Michael has a fully AirCon range we don't hear from him for days!!! I wonder if the girls have to take his food out to him now?

Nahhh, I have to come in from time to time for more ammo! HEH......... But, you are correct, I have been on the range quite a bit the last few days. I started early yesterday morning around 7 am and was at it most of the day. There was some cleanup done too, Air Con guys left somewhat of a mess!

No floods here or at Sam's place. We are dry! Must be further north of us.

Well, as stated, been on the range, doing mostly load development and PT's on the 475 Super Short. I have loads now up to speed for the most part with the new CEBs and North Forks designed specifically for the 475 Super Short. I plan on getting test medium ready for a Saturday test right now. So building two boxes of medium today, and if all goes as planned will do the terminals on these Saturday. I am very pleased with the little gun right now.

We will be looking at the 350 BBW#13 Solid at 2200 fps, it's matching 320 BBW#13 NonCon at 2300 fps, 375 North Fork FPS and Expanding (We Hope) CPS at 2100 fps.


Ulrik buddy, hang in there, I am sure better times are coming! Speedy recovery in our greatest hopes! In the meantime maybe we can keep you entertained somewhat anyway! LOL.......

Michael

I am curious to see the BBW#13 pellet perform in the Michael Mix. A 22 cal pellet at 1,000 fps could outpenetrate a 22 cal soft rifle bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael458:

No floods here or at Sam's place. We are dry! Must be further north of us.

Michael

Yeah,

In my house!

Three times!

And

No power for 3 days!

But, managed to buy the last generator in NJ 5 minutes before the power came back.



Still managed to take my daughter shooting, though.

Geez Paul, sorry to hear you were both flooded and out of power…most definitely the pits! We were part of the approx. 6 million to lose power because of some workers mistake…fortunately it was only about 8 hours – 3 days would be almost unbearable (lack of coffee you know!)

But hey, you did get in some shooting with your daughter! And you can use that generator to coffee yourself up when you take your daughter shooting next time. LOL… offee for you, milkshake for her (just remember the blender!).

Michael
Would be interesting to see your pressure traces for the 458 and 500 B&M carts with a 2.75" OAL at lower pressure for the rimmed versions using 348 Win brass to use on the Winchester Mod 71 at say 45k psi.

Jees Paul, sorry about the issues and the power! Rough Business! I can tell you how to fix that issue! Way back, I think 2000 we had a little blow here, no power for 2 weeks. It was a bit rough, it was a rather warm September too. No Air Con, SC, heat, humidity and so forth. I told myself no more! Bought and had installed a 40 KV gen set, big dog, run the whole compound, house, buildings, shooting range the works. Air Con too in all! Well the worst that has happened in the last 10 yrs is to be without power for about 8 hours as I recall! There have been a few times no power for an hour or two, but never again more than 8 hours! Buy a big expensive gen set, and the power will never go off again! HEH HEH.... Well, I suppose I can't complain, power one way or the other! Gen Set gets run far more just starting it up and making sure it runs proper! I still think it has less than 100 hrs on it!

I have medium boxes built and ready. Have to go to Lowes this morning to pick some things up, then I am on some terminals, or that is the plan anyway!

M

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Michael
Would be interesting to see your pressure traces for the 458 and 500 B&M carts with a 2.75" OAL at lower pressure for the rimmed versions using 348 Win brass to use on the Winchester Mod 71 at say 45k psi.

First round of tests with the 475 B&M Super Short, New NORTH FORK FPS and CPS bullets! Really some of you guys out there with 470 Nitros, 470 Capsticks, 470 this and that really should look at some of these! For too many years there has been a terrible void in .474 caliber bullets, now we have real rifle bullets from 320 grs, 350s, 375s, 425s and 450s. Should open up a lot of new territory for those tired old 470s!

Anyway, let me introduce you to the North Fork 375 FPS Solid, fired from a 475 B&M Super Short!



And it's Expanding partner the North Fork 375 CPS, both are true .474 caliber!









Just like in the 50 B&M Super Short and the 458 B&M Super Short, These North Fork bullets put the 475 B&M Super Short into a new category, making them all far more capable and versatile!

Michael

I love the way they look at you!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Michael
Would be interesting to see your pressure traces for the 458 and 500 B&M carts with a 2.75" OAL at lower pressure for the rimmed versions using 348 Win brass to use on the Winchester Mod 71 at say 45k psi.

ok so say you have a model 71 in 45-70 you can run in a 458 B&M reamer and use 458 B&M dies but 348 Win Brass. Using the short stubby bullets to a 2.75" OAL for reliable cycling. Higher pressure in the 71 and more case capacity. Think if it as a similar version of the 475 Turnbull.

I forsee some dead buff with the super shorts

The NFs give such consistent performance that, except for CEB, it must cause ongoing massive gastric indigestion for their competition.

.475 ?
Now we're talkin!

Hmmmm. . . . . .

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
The NFs give such consistent performance that, except for CEB, it must cause ongoing massive gastric indigestion for their competition.

Unfortunately, the general buying public is not aware of the existence or performance of the CEB, NF and S&H bullets.
For most hunters, which as a group do not hand load, even that knowledge would not help. These hunters want factory loaded ammo.
The closest "factory loaded" CEB, NF and S&H that exists are the several small firms that will hand load for a customer, using whatever bullets the customer requests. Even these may well need to be provided with sized brass if the "wildcat" calibers are desired.

Word of mouth is the best advertising.
That and superior performance.

North Fork has a good advertising campaign going, and I think more folks know about North Fork than you might expect. CEB, getting started, and for sure word of mouth is carrying it forward. They too are getting ready for an advert campaign and I suspect will do very well.

Correct, many do not know about North Fork and CEB, but it takes time to get the word out and as I have seen, Reputation and Performance will take both a long way. We here should be supporting both companies in their efforts to bring us the performance we demand. They are doing their part for sure and I appreciate both companies that have taken us so far in just a short period of time, and spent their time and efforts in the name of superior performance.

Michael

Back to work now! New cabinets installed, or should I say, Old cabinets installed, total re-organization almost finished. Loaded up some test work today, maybe get to it the next day or so. Have been so busy with the "Re-Organization" I have lost my way and forgot most of what I needed to get done?

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
North Fork has a good advertising campaign going, and I think more folks know about North Fork than you might expect. CEB, getting started, and for sure word of mouth is carrying it forward. They too are getting ready for an advert campaign and I suspect will do very well.

Correct, many do not know about North Fork and CEB, but it takes time to get the word out and as I have seen, Reputation and Performance will take both a long way. We here should be supporting both companies in their efforts to bring us the performance we demand. They are doing their part for sure and I appreciate both companies that have taken us so far in just a short period of time, and spent their time and efforts in the name of superior performance.

Michael

I remember when Swift A-Frames and Trophy Bonded Bullets were in the same boat just starting out.

I suspect we will see both loaded into premium factory ammo but that is probably a number of years away - perhaps sooner if lead-ban spreads.

BTW - what is left to be explored in this area?

quote:

BTW - what is left to be explored in this area?

The switcheroo bullet of course
That and see how 4 and 5 petal versions do. Less petals are better for lower velocity is my theory.
The ogive non con with and without tip.
The round nose non con
That should make Alf happy

quote:

The round nose non con

Roundnose is irrelevant to penetration of expanding bullet, though it has a lower BC than sleek ogives and loses speed and height on the way to its target.
But you knew that.

I like your tipped and non-tipped ogive non-con.

Yeah the round nose was an open joke to the RN crowd.
An Ogive Non Con could be good for small and medium bores.
The 4 and 5 petals could be interesting. Less shearing and edges closer to the outside make shearing easier and heavier petals.

quote:

BTW - what is left to be explored in this area?

Doc

Here on this end for the B&M 475s I still have the 350/320 BBW#13s to test in the Super Short.

Then with the 475 B&M I have the 450/420 BBW#13s, and the 425 North Forks, FPS, CPS and Premium which are of particular interest to me. Others with other 470s might take some more interest in these bullets also.

Then on my agenda is the "Mighty BBW#13 Carnivore" which we are getting ready to dive on very soon, starting in .458 caliber and some in 416 caliber, using the same formula we had in the .500 Carnivores I used on the Waterbuck with such success. We will be investigating this pretty seriously. Each caliber, each bullet will have to be tested to work out any bugs.

Yes, Boomy, I think the "Switcheroo" too.

Round Nose NonCons! We already did that, those Lehighs are all Round Nose big deep cavity NonCons. I like them too, they work great! Of course their matching RN Solid is CRAP in every sense of the word CRAP--So there can't be a matching Solid with the RN NonCon! HEH HEH.....

That's what is on my list of upcoming terminals.

If anyone wants a special project I don't mind either if I can.

Other projects are getting the 475 B&M up and running, 475 Super Short is practically done now for all intensive purposes. I am still investigating some new powders that I have not tried in the 458 B&M also, doing PT's and such. Still waiting on .474 caliber 1:10 twist barrels, I need a stainless for the Pressure Trace project coming up in the 475 B&M. Good news, looks like we are about to sort the 475 B&M out with the new reamer and the Hornady Dies! I may be shooting gun #1 next week, no pressure traces, but working up a basic load for it.

Michael

That reminds me ...

I went all the way back to page 174 to find out about the specific construction of the Carnivore but since the System here blocks photos and links to photos, I can't figure them out (really great when you need to see a photo of a specific medical malady but what they hey, it's only the largest health care system in NJ ...)

So can you fill me in on what these are as compared to Non-cons?

Thanks

I'm pretty excited over the switch point bullet testing.
Long range non con or up close hammer!
The 475 B&M should duplicate the 470 NE but 7lbs and 18" barrels. Pretty sweet!

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
That reminds me ...

I went all the way back to page 174 to find out about the specific construction of the Carnivore but since the System here blocks photos and links to photos, I can't figure them out (really great when you need to see a photo of a specific medical malady but what they hey, it's only the largest health care system in NJ ...)

So can you fill me in on what these are as compared to Non-cons?

Thanks

The .500 420gr Carnivore has a 0.800" HP depth compared to the 460gr HP NonCon's 0.400" HP depth. Greater depth equated to longer petals for creating greater trauma to thinner skinned lighter boned toothy critters.

Got it

Thanks Jim