The mice are getting restless waiting for exciting news from Africa. We are rooting for you buddy!

I copied this from Dr. RIP’s “49 Lapua aka 12.7mm (.500) Tornado” thread – good stuff…good test work while Dr. MDM is off field testing CEB and NF bullets against moving targets.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The 49-10 Saga creeps along.
Test fired yesterday for brass full-formed:



Notice that the faster the bullet, the lower it hits (POI) on target at 50 yards, just like with a double rifle or handgun, less barrel time as the muzzle is rising in recoil. A heavier bullet load with more recoil and slower velocity would shoot higher, at this close range, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
No, but if it is drawn to scale it can be estimated from the drawing and the dimensions shown.
Some dimensions are proprietary, Cosmic Squirrel Top Secret.

Yep can do.

Ok… I’ve dummied it up… Ok, 230gr and 1.150” length… gives .211 SD and should be around 250-260 BC; ought to work great in the 395 Ruger Max. I’m thinking a similar design stretched out to 260gr…perhaps 1.32” length - mas or menos – would work great from the larger capacity .395 cartridges for longer range work. Might work fine on buffalo but definitely would work great on everything short of buffalo.

Jim,
Word is in, the .395-caliber copper FBH from CEB is done. 240 grains, not 230 grains.
SD = .220
BC: unknown, but good enough for 300-yard shooting at game, I am sure.
Reportedly the nose hole was made larger, hollowpoint diameter increased, since initial drawing.
That was a good move, I think, as lower SD will need more help opening up the nose at lower velocity at long range. "SD drives expansion."

Hey, if the cup&core .308cal/150gr bullet (SD .226) is adequate for deer,
a monometal copper .395/240gr driven fast enough should be adequate for elk and bison.

The race is on to see who kills something first with the new bullet,
Max and the .395 Ruger Max, or me and the .395 H&H.

Will post picture of new CEB bullet when it gets here. Will post target photos from the .395 H&H ASAP.

Terminals on this bullet need to be done on elk, or bison, or anything else available.

quote:

Word is in, the .395-caliber copper FBH from CEB is done. 240 grains, not 230 grains.
SD = .220 BC: unknown, but good enough for 300-yard shooting at game, I am sure. Reportedly the nose hole was made larger, hollowpoint diameter increased, since initial drawing. That was a good move, I think, as lower SD will need more help opening up the nose at lower velocity at long range. "SD drives expansion."

Hey, if the cup&core .308cal/150gr bullet (SD .226) is adequate for deer, a monometal copper .395/240gr driven fast enough should be adequate for elk and bison.

240grs is good, BC should be somewhere around 280 which is pretty good as well. Michael is getting phenomenal expansion and penetration performance from very light for caliber CEB hollow point bullets so I have no doubt the CEB 240gr HP Spitzer will handle everything on the North American continent as well as African plains game just fine.

Would be nice to see your .395/.338 Lapua with your best most accurate 240gr loading visit the Lab for a full run against the bullet box mix with pressure traces attached.

I figured since Michael was away I could show you these. After meeting Michael and seeing his wonderful cartridges I wanted to build a few guns. Now Michael at the time didn't know me well and didn't offer to loan me his reamers. I wanted to build his whole line of cartridges so I starting doing some design work from what I had remembered from seeing the B&M line. These are what I came up with and I call them the Ultra Mag Shorts. The ones with the Barnes bullets are B&Ms and the ones with the BBW#13s are the UMSs. The 458UMS will interchange with the 458 B&M but the others won't. The calibers from left to right are 458,416 and 375.

Sam

Great Picture!!!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
I figured since Michael was away I could show you these. After meeting Michael and seeing his wonderful cartridges I wanted to build a few guns. Now Michael at the time didn't know me well and didn't offer to loan me his reamers. I wanted to build his whole line of cartridges so I starting doing some design work from what I had remembered from seeing the B&M line. These are what I came up with and I call them the Ultra Mag Shorts. The ones with the Barnes bullets are B&Ms and the ones with the BBW#13s are the UMSs. The 458UMS will interchange with the 458 B&M but the others won't. The calibers from left to right are 458,416 and 375.

Sam

Very nice Sam!

Can you chamber the 416 B&M in your 416 UMS? Or are the neck lengths/shoulder angles sufficiently different that neither cartridge can be chambered in the other?

Jim,

Yes the 416 B&M will chamber in the 416 USM but not the other way. I can shoot Michael's ammo but he can't shoot mine! HEH HEH as he would say.

Sam

You did good with that one Sam...not many can put one over on Michael.

Missing the cool as heck 410 B&M
Y'all repeat after me. "Hi my name is _______ and I'm a TBP addict"

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Missing the cool as heck 410 B&M
Y'all repeat after me. "Hi my name is _______ and I'm a TBP addict"

I resemble that!

Jim,

I'm sure I will catch it when Michael gets back. I was hoping to hear from him and get an update but nothing so far.

Sam

Ya Buddy, can you imagine a 410 B&M SS in an AR15 platform?
I would need the WSSM bolt but that's easy to get.
Boomer, would that kill pigy's fast enough for ya...LOL

Cheers, John

Sam,

If we all BS sufficiently while he's gone it'll take him 6 months to catch your post...will be to late by then.

Please let us know when you hear from him, Hope they had no issues during travel...have been wondering how many animals have fallen to the CEB's and NFs.

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
Ya Buddy, can you imagine a 410 B&M SS in an AR15 platform?
I would need the WSSM bolt but that's easy to get.
Boomer, would that kill pigy's fast enough for ya...LOL

Cheers, John

Well looking at the 458SS numbers it should duplicate the 405 win at AR 15 pressures and get even more oomph on a WSSM donor. Call it the TRSS Teddy Roosevelt Super Short. A worthy wildcat!!!!

OK I might be off thread but since Michael inspired me I'm going to post the photos of the UMSs I've built so far and working on. The top two are 458UMS, next is a 50 B&M, a 375UMS,416UMS and another 50 B&M that I took to Africa last year and since have robbed the stock for another project. I think this shows how addictive these little big bore rifles are. They are the best handling big bores you will ever pick up and have the power to take any game.

Sam

Very nice Sam.

I have a SS Ruger M77 SA in 300 SAUM with synthetic stock that is destined to be rebarreled in a B&M SA cartridge this summer. Maybe I'll do a reamer with 30-degree shoulder and see if I can also putz with Michael.

Happy Father's Day everyone!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
OK I might be off thread but since Michael inspired me I'm going to post the photos of the UMSs I've built so far and working on. The top two are 458UMS, next is a 50 B&M, a 375UMS,416UMS and another 50 B&M that I took to Africa last year and since have robbed the stock for another project. I think this shows how addictive these little big bore rifles are. They are the best handling big bores you will ever pick up and have the power to take any game.

Sam

These stocks may very well do an excellent job
for what a stock is supposed to do. But I must
say that my "eye" is not attracted to their ap-
pearance. The 'S' lines on the buttstock are for
what?

Well I can tell you the .35 Remmy kills no better than the 30-30 Winchester and not as good as either the .444 or 45/70.

Think of the .35 as being a half-ton pick up truck. The .444 Marlin as being a 1-ton pick up truck with hardcast bullets. The 45/70 is a 550 pickup Truck.......lots of power,especially in reloading your own.

Yep the stocks are goofy looking but you can use them to beat down the brush and not worry about them.

All of the B&M and UMS cartridges are much more power than a 45-70 even with the hottest loads. Now I love the 45-70 but these really are in a different league.

Sam

Sam,
Good work! You are a certifiable wildcatter.

Jack,
I think those Ultimate Shadow stocks are quite cute.
Prefer them to walnut or laminate!
The "S" shaped lines on the butt must be "Shadow" lines on the "Ultimate Shadow" stocks.
Cute, punningly clever, not too gaudy.
Those stocks are great, if you just move the forend sling base out to the tip of the stock,
where it cannot gouge your hand in recoil.
Quite a short forearm, but not tacky and rubbery, it is smooth, hard and well textured in grip areas:



Above, you might be able to see the smooth oval-head filler screw filling the hole where the stud was previously.
I am sure Sam is capable of drilling the hole in the right spot and using a nut on the inside of the stock forend tip to anchor it, plus or minus LocTite or epoxy.
They are also lighter in weight than either the tupperware stock of the old Classics,
or the new B&C Kevlar/aluminum-bedding-blocked stocks that go on the new FN/SC M70s.
Only if my .458 B&M cracks the Ultimate shadow stock will I go grabbing for the B&C Kevlar version.
Synthetic for me, whenever possible.
And I was not even raised in a barn.

Rip,

Thats a great idea to put the swivel forward!

I need to bend the bolt handle forward also so my knuckle will stop bleeding.

Sam

I like the two-tone action+barrel in all those rifles.

Sam, Micheal....

What did Michael determine to be the optimum size meplat... I remember 63% or 65% and does a greater melpat reduce penetration. I am asking because I am shooting some 405 and 460 cast bullets in my 45-70 with a very big, wide flap meplat.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Sam, Micheal....

What did Michael determine to be the optimum size meplat... I remember 63% or 65% and does a greater melpat reduce penetration. I am asking because I am shooting some 405 and 460 cast bullets in my 45-70 with a very big, wide flap meplat.

Just one of the mice here playing with the cheese while the cat is gone,
IIRC, 67% of caliber by "stamped meplat" is optimum for penetration with a "nondeforming" brass FN.
Cast lead does not count, it expands, or shatters if cast too hard so as to be brittle,
at usual bigbore rifle velocities in game.
Even copper expands some.
Brass at less than 2800 fps will expand very little.
Oh yeah, those slow, heavy, hardcast 45-70 bullets tested in wet newspaper: Yes if you slow them down enough that the lead does not expand, then the smaller meplat FN that is big enough to shoulder stabilize, will penetrate farther.
Yes that would be about 67%, according to MIB.

If the rifle will feed the meplat larger than 67% OK, larger meplat may be a better trauma transfer agent in the shallower wound, stopping before exiting, and dumping all its energy.

I think for all-around use, one should not go higher than 68% on FN meplat,
for best feeding possibilities and best penetration.
That is what a solid is for.
Otherwise use a jacketed cup&core or monometal hollow point soft or a cast lead bullet.

Dave,

Michael is off in Africa testing bullets! I think he would say 67 to 68 % meplat is the optimum size for penetration and larger will reduce penetration some but more trauma from the larger meplat. With the #13 you have so much more penetration than most other solids that if using in a double you can go to 75 to 80% meplat. 67% works good for feeding in a bolt gun.

Sam

Rip beat me to it!

Dave,
Take a look at the work that Michael and Sam did with my 600 OverKill. They used CEBs at various velocities but also tested other bullets from Macifej which have a much larger meplat and from RobGunBuilder which I call a "crayola-tip" because that's exactly what they look like.

So a wide range of meplat size from which to choose and compare.

Be well,
Paul

Thanks guys!

When is Doc M due back?
The only thing shorter than my attention span is my pecker...lol

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
When is Doc M due back?
The only thing shorter than my attention span is my pecker...lol

Cheers, John

John,

I think Michael's trip, African hunting and family visiting plus Australian hunting, is around five weeks...or was it six weeks?? Heck I don't remember... But Sam may pipe in with the correct answer later this morning.

Not sure when Doc is getting back. I thought around the 4th of July. He has not called me as he said he would so I'm still waiting as you to hear all about it.

I did hear from Ken Buch about someone shooting bear with a 9.3 non con and he said it really smoked them. Also said my 577 may be back soon.

Sam

Oh, that's right, He has Inlaws over there.
Man, I hope they are better than mine. I'd have to paint the house and pave the drive or I'd be on the crap list.

Cheers, John

Worse than that--according to Michael he has to go FISHING.

He claims to hate that.



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Not sure when Doc is getting back. I thought around the 4th of July. He has not called me as he said he would so I'm still waiting as you to hear all about it.

I guess he`s very,very busy...

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
I'd have to paint the house and pave the drive or I'd be on the crap list.

Cheers, John

I'd happily paint the house (I HATE painting) and pave the driveway if it my F-i-L said:
"Hey, when we're done, why don't we track down a few Cape buffalo."

Just got my issue of Shooting Times

Our own Michael458 (Michael McCourry) is famous.

OK, maybe you all already knew that, it was mentioned here and I missed the thread but it was news to me when I saw Layne Simpson's article in his SSK modified Marlin 1895 MLXR lever action in 50 B&M Alaskan.

LOL..Point taken