quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

some sort of hard spot in the test medium on that one. ???????

Perhaps between the tester's ears??? :-)

PS: Happy page 163!

Beibs, I am afraid that would be a test that the BBW#13 could not even pass!!! But, I am not going to test that theory!!!!

Page 163! Who would have thought such a thing in November of 2009? 18 months ago! How many new bullets do we have at our disposal since that time? I am not so sure about ya'll, you will have to decide that, but with all the work we have all done, all the great ideas that have come from all of you as well, it's been worth it to me. I have zero doubt in my mind that I am leaving on Friday with the finest bullets I have ever gone to the field with. I have zero doubts about the BBW#13 Solids. I have no doubt about the ability of the NonCons to penetrate and do damage along the way. My biggest curiosity about the NonCons is the up front visible trauma inflicted as the animal takes the bullet. All animals are not created equal, one might take it, the other bang flop? If I start seeing a lot of stress and bang flops, I am going to be happy! All field indications lean to this stress being put out right up front. I have enough shooting to see if it is so. Just talked to one of my boys across the pond, and it does indeed look like we can add to quota! So that is more buffalo and more hippo! Excellent, just excellent!

M

Michael,

No doubt you will be using the most-reliable best-performing bullets that you’ve ever hunted with! Have a safe and productive trip.

The nose acts like those old pineapple fragmentation grenades and that is great for heart/lung shots and I think could result in fewer lost wounded animals due to the added lethality. A deadlier bullet is a kinder bullet. I think an adapted design could make a great hunting/anti personal handgun bullet only needing 8" of penetration but extremely lethal. A 250 grain 44 mag/444 non con would be cool. Instead of controlled expansion bullet what we have here is a Controlled Terminal Dispersion bullet or Multiple Terminal Projectile bullet. Maybe that sounds more gun phobia friendly. Yes the anti gun crowd does not need any help and maybe calling them green hug pellets might be good In a way this new style of bullet acts like a buck shot and a slug at the same time. Its pretty freaking cool.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

The inconsistancy documented here is why premium bullets were developed:
Nosler partitions,
various 'bonded' bullets,
monometal expanding bullets,
and now monometal nose-fragmenters.

Fragment and shear do have different connotations; I believe with the stupidity of the international anti-gun crowd and their lackey government officials that we’ll want to forgo using this reference.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The nose acts like those old pineapple fragmentation grenades and that is great for heart/lung shots and I think could result in fewer lost wounded animals due to the added lethality. A deadlier bullet is a kinder bullet. I think an adapted design could make a great hunting/anti personal handgun bullet only needing 8" of penetration but extremely lethal. A 250 grain 44 mag/444 non con would be cool. Instead of controlled expansion bullet what we have here is a Controlled Terminal Dispersion bullet or Multiple Terminal Projectile bullet. Maybe that sounds more gun phobia friendly. Yes the anti gun crowd does not need any help and maybe calling them green hug pellets might be good In a way this new style of bullet acts like a buck shot and a slug at the same time. Its pretty freaking cool.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

The inconsistancy documented here is why premium bullets were developed:
Nosler partitions,
various 'bonded' bullets,
monometal expanding bullets,
and now monometal nose-fragmenters.

Fragment and shear do have different connotations; I believe with the stupidity of the international anti-gun crowd and their lackey government officials that we’ll want to forgo using this reference.

Boomy,

Unfortunately stupidity rains supreme regarding frangible bullets and “fragmentation” seems to run hand-in-hand with “frangible”…and frangible bullets are designed to fragment into many small pieces while maintaining no bullet integrity. I also believe that frangible bullets have been outlawed for use in a few states, I believe California to be one of them, for any purposes except use by “proper authorities”.

I perceive the CEB BBW #13 HP NonCons bullets to not be frangible bullets. The petals will fold back, the petals may shear from the bullet shank when certain velocity/impact conditions are met, but the petals and the shank maintain integrity rather than to fragment into many small pieces.

Though the CEB BBW #13 HP NonCons bullets are of monometal construction, their petals fold back in a manner similar to traditional cup-n-core bullets, and the petals will shear from the bullet shank just as the petals will shear from a traditional cup-n-core bullet when certain velocity/impact conditions are met. The great benefit that we as user of the CEB BBW #13 HP NonCon is the lengthy design testing that Michael and Sam accomplished to identify the proper nose configuration and hollow point attributes to assure that if the petals sheared from the shank when certain velocity/impact conditions are met that they will shear in such a manner that the remaining shank will maintain within-mass penetration stability to maximize the shank’s penetration in and through the vitals of the hunted game animal. The major manufacturers of traditional cup-n-core bullets have not expended the effort to design the bullet cup to function in a similar controlled shear/penetration manner that Michael and Sam have with BBW #13 HP NonCons.

Fortunately we’re not limited to the CEB BBW #13 HP NonCon bullets for optimum controlled petal shear/shank penetration performance…We see similar bullet performance from the S&H SHARRC HX monometal bullets.

Sorry for the long diatribe…I just want to sever any connotation between these two bullet performance concepts.

Already have them in 12 guage:
www.ddupleks.lv/EN/dduplks_products/show/Hexolit32
God I hope that link worked, bad luck lately
Different method but the same effect.

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
maybe calling them green hug pellets might be good

Lord luv ya Boomy--Thats just toooooo good



SSR

Capo, you are wise and smart. If the petals sheer from going too fast that is just the fault of an over enthusiastic hand loader or global warming
These Pelets for the Ethical Termination of Animals also known as PETA are great and should be used by any animal lover.
Reach out and touch some animal with this Eco Friendly Non Toxic Pellet.
Gives new meaning to "Deer Tag". Its a game of pin the tag on the deer

Cant forget Lead Free right on with non toxic



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Capo, you are wise and smart. If the petals sheer from going too fast that is just the fault of an over enthusiastic hand loader or global warming
These Pelets for the Ethical Termination of Animals also known as PETA are great and should be used by any animal lover.
Reach out and touch some animal with this Eco Friendly Non Toxic Pellet.
Gives new meaning to "Deer Tag". Its a game of pin the tag on the deer

That's pretty good. PETA rhymes with 'petal'.
Pellets for the Ethical termination of Animals.

The weight of the petals is also close to the little pellets of .17 rifles.

Yes as long as we don't use scary masculine words the hippie demasculinized fascists might not notice. What we have here is a flowering pellet with petals. Flower power! We are just animal flower delivery guys.
I jest but this irrational gun phobia climate we live in sickens me. Unless you are a vegan they should shut the hell up and even then guns and ammo are not just for hunting and is an uninfringeable protected right but as we know we are under the sharia law known as political correctness not the constitution anymore sadly. Ok rant off.
Looking forward to seeing the terminal results from you Michael. Good luck!

Flower Power! We are PETA (People using Eco friendly nontoxic Pellets for Termination of Animals) who use PETA (Pelets for the Ethical Termination of Animals)!! Yeah PETA (People who Eat Tasty Animals)!!! Flower Power!!!!

Yeah Teens!!!!! Flower Power!!!!!!

boom stick,
Good point. Green bullets.

With bullets of nontoxic metal,
When biting into the meat,
If you find a petal
Between your teeth,
Fear not, no worries,
Just spit, no hurries.

Doc M,
Dan is The Man, at CEB,
I'll give him a call for Max and me.

Oops, still trying to rhyme, enough of that.
Max wants a light bullet, and I do to.
If Dan is receptive to making such a special order as his Flat Base Hunter in .395 caliber and only 230 grains weight in brass,
or 230-250gr in copper, or whatever he can fit into a 1.150" bullet length,
then we live in very exciting times!

I am all for the BBW #13 solid and soft,
DGBR's of CEB,
but that will be next in heavier weights like 300 to 330 grains, brass, for the .395.
The S&H bullets of 310-grain brass soft and 330-grain FN brass solid have proved that.
The CEB designs will work wonders in .395-caliber ... if possible.

Nothing wrong with Flower Power- I have very fond memories of Hippy chicks.



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
boom stick,
Good point. Green bullets.

With bullets of nontoxic metal,
When biting into the meat,
If you find a petal
Between your teeth,
Fear not, no worries,
Just spit, no hurries.

Doc M,
Dan is The Man, at CEB,
I'll give him a call for Max and me.

Oops, still trying to rhyme, enough of that.
Max wants a light bullet, and I do to.
If Dan is receptive to making such a special order as his Flat Base Hunter in .395 caliber and only 230 grains weight in brass,
or 230-250gr in copper, or whatever he can fit into a 1.150" bullet length,
then we live in very exciting times!

I am all for the BBW #13 solid and soft,
DGBR's of CEB,
but that will be next in heavier weights like 300 to 330 grains, brass, for the .395.
The S&H bullets of 310-grain brass soft and 330-grain FN brass solid have proved that.
The CEB designs will work wonders in .395-caliber ... if possible.

Oh my god, rolling in the floor, all this PETA, flower petals, hippies, just too FUNNY! Honest to god, funny as it is, it AIN"T far from being true! I've been to CA a few times, beautiful places there, had lot's of fun there, but I am damned glad I live in SC, thank you very much! Ya see, down here things are just so much more simple! At least for now!


Anyway, RIPPY.... sent Dan an email earlier today and greased those skids a bit, I suppose? I have all ideas Dan has been sipping Mint Julips today as I have not heard back from him, probably in the morning sometime. I told him all about what a swell chap you and Max are, and that you are part of our family, all those sort of things, so I think you will be good to go!

Michael

Michael

Safe travels for you and yours. If Irish prayers count you have angels on your shoulders.

Bring LOTS of pics back.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Michael

Safe travels for you and yours. If Irish prayers count you have angels on your shoulders.

Bring LOTS of pics back.

SSR

Thanks SSR! Got more word today as well. My Wifes Dad has something for me to shoot while visiting with him it seems. This trip gets better and better all the time. Seems he thinks a good bit of me, some of his friends own a farm somewhere close by, and he has arranged for me to do some shooting on the coast as well. Not sure what, but as long as it's shooting and I have any ammo left over it's good to me! Also, looks like for sure I can also pick up some extra buffalo and hippo in Zim too! So now we have some hunting in Zim, then in the Limpopo, and now back on the coast too! Excellent! I may not come back--At least until I completely run out of ammo!

HEH...... A quick note about my father in law! He is something I tell you. Pa Likes the girls you know! He's right at 65 now, my wife has a brother younger than our daughter. HEH...... Brother is 5-6 now. MY wife also has a lot of sisters scattered about the country as well. A good friend of ours asked only tonight how many sisters my wife has, I could not help myself, I popped into the conversation quickly and said;

"She has more Sisters than the Catholic Church"



Her dad got around! LOL


Michael

Michael,
Thank you for the kind words. Also, I am hoping you have very good luck on your safari.
Things are looking very good in bullet land tonight!

Sisters sisters????



SSR

quote:

Thanks SSR! Got more word today as well. My Wifes Dad has something for me to shoot while visiting with him it seems. This trip gets better and better all the time. Seems he thinks a good bit of me, some of his friends own a farm somewhere close by, and he has arranged for me to do some shooting on the coast as well. Not sure what, but as long as it's shooting and I have any ammo left over it's good to me! Also, looks like for sure I can also pick up some extra buffalo and hippo in Zim too! So now we have some hunting in Zim, then in the Limpopo, and now back on the coast too! Excellent! I may not come back--At least until I completely run out of ammo!

Alright now, the word is FOCUS! The second word is FOCUS! And finally, did I mention, FOCUS? Clear the mind and FOCUS.

Good Luck Boss M,
Sounds like your going to one of your favorite places in the world.
But we will still be when you get back.

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Michael,
Thank you for the kind words. Also, I am hoping you have very good luck on your safari.
Things are looking very good in bullet land tonight!

Thanks Max! Yes, we have never had it so good in bullet land! Every hunt needs some things, Luck plays a very large part of that. Once I hit the ground, test fire for any issues, and I expect none and all to be 100%, it normally is. Once that is done, I know the rifle will function, I know the bullets will do their job, and with some luck I won't screw things up, if I do, it's on me, I have to sign off on it! You won't hear me blaming the rifle, nor the sights, nor the bullet, the buck stops with me!

Oh Cross--don't get bug eyed yet, I got the pick of the litter, the rest were thrown back.

Thanks Phats! But I aint' finished here yet, we have some more work we are going to do.

Michael

ܢܨܠܚܟ ܡܪܝܐ ܒܐܘܪܚܟ

[I wonder if that will show up in everyone's browser? It's unicode.]

May the Lord bless your path
(ancient Aramaic blessing)
and give you some of his animals.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
ܢܨܠܚܟ ܡܪܝܐ ܒܐܘܪܚܟ

[I wonder if that will show up in everyone's browser? It's unicode.]

May the Lord bless your path
(ancient Aramaic blessing)
and give you some of his animals.

UNICORN! Don't look like no Unicorn to me!

It's a go!

CEB is on the .395 job!

Details to follow.

@ RIP.

Hey nice !! .395"Bullets........But, "no shipping outside usa........"

michael458,

wanna wish you a nice trip, good hunting and MOST of all may have a save return. Sorry that the brass is so late......

Best
2RECON

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
It's a go!

CEB is on the .395 job!

Details to follow.

Lots of details please.

Reminds me of the old joke, "Patience, my dear jackass, patience."

RIP--this is encouraging.

I'd like to have a .416 bullet with about a 1.35" length, ogive over the nose half leading to a polymer point, and boat tail as part of the back-half. Likewise, weight would be irrelevant, possibly 300 grains.

Would CEB be interested?

What happened to our boy Mike? Was that all the report? I suppose so. Hmmmm? So much going on the last few days I can't keep up. Packing all day today it seems! 300 lbs of crap! Of course I have my 100 lbs, maybe a tad more! Girls did pretty good, except for the damned shampoo! JHC! Shampoo-5 damned lbs of shampoo! You believe that? 5 lbs of shampoo! I told Momma get the shampoo when we hit the ground, South Africa has shampoo! Hell, she's South African, she knows this! Every time I weighed a bag, 5 lbs over, and she had put that damned shampoo in another bag! My God! But it will be expensive in RSA! Honey, they charge $150 for overweight bags 51-70 lbs, we can buy a lot of shampoo for a $150.00! I swear! Finally got the shampoo out of the bags!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
It's a go!

CEB is on the .395 job!

Details to follow.

Well I am like IBT---Show me the details! What you guys got going on?


2Recon

Thanks! Oh No worries about our man Dieter. If the brass is on the bench, I am sure it will make it to me at some point in life, hopefully I am just not too old to use it! HEH HEH.......

I have had more luck communicating with the dead!

However, I am a patient chap, as I know in the end I will get what I want, some excellent brass to run through these guns!

In the Morning!

M

Michael is like that buzzard in the tree. "Patience Hell I Want To Kill Something"
Forget the shampoo and put more ammo in the bag!

IBT and Doc M,
I would love to provide more details, but nothing new other than it will be a copper bullet, brass is out for this one.
There, that is all we have so far.

It's a .395-caliber variation on the CEB Flat Base Hunting bullet theme, a hollow point.
Stubby and not too pointy, but pointy enough for 300-yard shooting.
1.150" long.
0.650" nose length.
0.500" base length including the CEB Seal Tite Band, that starts where the nose ogive ends.
Aiming for 230-grains or a little more.
Did I say copper?
Yes, see I am repeating the only new detail I have.
I do need to hear from Max, as I beat him to the contact with Dan The Man at CEB.
Oh, yeah, Dan is highly intelligent and charming, and he knows bullets and machining.
Well, darn, that's not news around here either.
I give up until I have more details.
One bullet at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
RIP--this is encouraging.

I'd like to have a .416 bullet with about a 1.35" length, ogive over the nose half leading to a polymer point, and boat tail as part of the back-half. Likewise, weight would be irrelevant, possibly 300 grains.

Would CEB be interested?

416 Tanzan,
I do not know about the polymer tips, but CEB makes .408 Chey-Tac VLD target bullets, and ballistic copper hollowpoints of all types, various High BC .338, .375, and .416 IIRC.

IIRC, he will make a minimum run of 250 bullets and give a discount on a run of 500, for your special design, plastic tips are an unknown to me, but he could sure do a pointy copper hollowpoint.
Just turn Dan loose on it.
Being an ordinary .416 caliber, might be some easier on you than our oddball .395.

There! That is really all I know ... for now.

Max has been heard.
We are waiting for more details.

Daniel J. Smitchko
President
djsmitchko@cuttingedgebullets.com
www.cuttingedgebullets.com
Phone: (814)345-6690 ext. 203
Fax: (814)345-6506

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
What happened to our boy Mike? Was that all the report? I suppose so. Hmmmm? So much going on the last few days I can't keep up. Packing all day today it seems! 300 lbs of crap! Of course I have my 100 lbs, maybe a tad more! Girls did pretty good, except for the damned shampoo! JHC! Shampoo-5 damned lbs of shampoo! You believe that? 5 lbs of shampoo! I told Momma get the shampoo when we hit the ground, South Africa has shampoo! Hell, she's South African, she knows this! Every time I weighed a bag, 5 lbs over, and she had put that damned shampoo in another bag! My God! But it will be expensive in RSA! Honey, they charge $150 for overweight bags 51-70 lbs, we can buy a lot of shampoo for a $150.00! I swear! Finally got the shampoo out of the bags!

Packing shampoo is in the female genes. We were 40 pound lighter coming home. I posted a report on my six shots fired on safari. Previous trip K and I shot 64 rounds. This time only six shots at game and three were not needed. All but one exited.

Not much posting. Virus on home computer, buying an iMac. Bad problem at work has been keeping me busy also.

Good luck on the hunt. Do not forget to enjoy your self.

Yep, I'm in for some of these copper bullets. Good thing I'm not married anymore (divorced 20 yrs), she would have blown her stack at the cost of "only" bullets!

In Denmark I heard a very good suggestion recently by a comedian called Niels Hausgaard - Politicians are always discussing whether to increase or to lower the income tax (which is already the highest in the world..).

The suggestion was - "all bachelors should be increased 10% in tax cause why should they have a better life compared to the rest of us..."

Sam

Yep, just like the buzzard, I am waiting, or trying to anyway! HEH.....

I already have 20 lbs of ammo, split between me and Momma! Hey, the rules say 11 lbs per passenger, end of story! I could do another 10 lbs and put in Mercedes bag eh? Hmmmmm? LOL....No, I think I can get by with a mere 20 lbs of ammo! But of course my PH said do not send anymore money over, as there will be no animals left in Africa as it is! When is the last time you heard that? Don't send more Money? I hope to come back home with only a few rounds left over! I intend to shoot a lot!


RIP

Excellent news on the .395 bullet. Yep, had the jest of it, copper, seal tite, and very happy that Dan can work with you guys on it. You need to get back in the test work business now, with this!

Dan and I have talked about the plastic tips for the BBW#13s, and he has not forgot, just has not got to it yet. Other bullets? Well, with that long pointy copper really don't need a tip in it I think, especially at velocity.

Max, don't worry, bullets are better than money!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Packing shampoo is in the female genes. We were 40 pound lighter coming home. I posted a report on my six shots fired on safari. Previous trip K and I shot 64 rounds. This time only six shots at game and three were not needed. All but one exited.

Not much posting. Virus on home computer, buying an iMac. Bad problem at work has been keeping me busy also.

Good luck on the hunt. Do not forget to enjoy your self.

Mike

I see you know something about womens "Genes"! HEH HEH..... Funny. Every time she would ask me to weigh the bags, I would find them 2 lbs over, on the last one, I told her "You put that damned shampoo in this bag, didn't you?" Opens the bag, and out with the shampoo again!

I know, 6 rounds and only needed 3, shot 3 more than needed! As successful as your trip was, and it was a grand success, seems there should be more than 6 rounds shot! BUT--Moral of the Story--you used proper bullets for the job at hand--and the mission was accomplished! How does it get better than that?

I run Apples here myself. Just never have an issue with them. Problems at work! Yes, I know all about that every damned day I am alive! I am looking forward to leaving this madhouse! You would think the sky is falling around here, No worries, whatever falls and breaks, I'll fix when I get back.

Thanks and yes will need a little luck to go with the rest. I am sure I will have a blast once I get on the ground there, until then it's hell pure and simple!

M

How about some terminal results?

I did manage to sneak away enough this week to get a few things done. Hell I had to get out of here, get on the range and get out of this madhouse of an office from time to time, or just shoot myself one or the other, so I run away to the range now and again!

Max needed a study on low velocity 325 458 Hornady Flex tips. So I did one quickly for him, as well as the rest of us too. Let's see, start low, work up--Start High, work down? We will start hi, work down!

Once again, it was easy for me to work with the 458 B&M Super Short. I just put 25/2400 and let it rip. Since this bullet weighed more than the 300 Barnes I expected velocity to be less, but like many things in what we do, it was almost equal to what the 300 Barnes was with the same charge. I guess the Hornady goes down the barrel a little slicker!