Well I guess I did something wrong.

Sam

Sam,
If I click on the link I get the photo in a separate window.

Go to the edit link for your post and type [img] in front of the url and [/img] behind it. The url is http://i1103.photobucket.com/a...fricaHunt2010586.jpg

Hope you feel better.

Shootaway,
We do not have a 500gr .458 FN that will penetrate better than the bullet you mention. We do have a 450gr FN that will.

peterdk,
PM Warrior. The two of you will get on very well. Catch a wake up and read the posts on RIP's report down to the end.

Gerard,

Thanks, and I tried what you said but must have done something wrong.

Sam

You have to use the square brackets and img in front of the url with /img behind. Both enclosed in square brackets.

Still can't get it to work. I'm a computer idiot.

Still doing something wrong.

Sam,
It looks like the photo has disappeared off photobucket now. Get it up there again before trying anything else.

You got it:
[IMGhttp://s1103.photobucket.com/albums/g471/srose12/?action=view¤t=AfricaHunt2010155.jpg[/IMG] just put a square closing bracket after the first IMG.

Well it sure took me long enough to figure it out but I think I have it now.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Sam,
If I click on the link I get the photo in a separate window.

Go to the edit link for your post and type [img] in front of the url and [/img] behind it. The url is http://i1103.photobucket.com/a...fricaHunt2010586.jpg

Hope you feel better.

Shootaway,
We do not have a 500gr .458 FN that will penetrate better than the bullet you mention. We do have a 450gr FN that will.

peterdk,
PM Warrior. The two of you will get on very well. Catch a wake up and read the posts on RIP's report down to the end.

Gerard I just checked out your sight and noticed that you tested your bullets on wet sand.I shoot all my bullets at the range on a mound of wet sand,sometimes frozen.I have shot copper monometals on wet sand and noticed they are much less affected from the ones I recovered from game.This was one of the most surprising results I ever saw because the bullets recovered from game where much more stressed-they opened up all the way and had little left to push through.I would not feel confident of using a copper monometal on elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
peterdk,
PM Warrior. The two of you will get on very well. Catch a wake up and read the posts on RIP's report down to the end.

gerard

sadly i dont have the time to see how you are trying to make it rip's fault and after that make a spin about you actually made the design to do just what it did.

what i am most interested in is now you claim that you designed the bullet to TUMBLE straight after penetrating bone etc.

what i really like about this tread is that people actually prove their claims, now i would love to see you prove this with the tests you did, i am actually eagerly awaiting this. but knowing you i think i wont be holding my breath for this.

I love the way you tried to convince everybody that it were a brisket shot.

now if we look at the evidence, and take in account what the witness all ready stated and looking at the first bullet failure. the n this would be just as likely a senario:

Buff no. 2

151 yards shot towards the chest.

bullet hit front rib, bullet nose destroyed, making bullet tumble, bullet weering off course exciting down through ribcase, ricocheting in the dust 5 yards behind the buff.

buff lost because of another bullet failure(one bullet failure all ready in evidence), now did i forget something in the evidence, or should we just try to blame the shooter again.

he himself actually mentioned that it might have hit a rib, before you made your spin on this and blamed him instead.

peter

P.S name calling etc. wont state your case any better, as far as i can see you and your design are yesterdays news, and about equally as usefull.

Sam,

Those are some very nice photos. Your BBW #13 performed exactly as designed. Congradulations!

Sam,
Glad you are feeling better.

GREAT photos and fantastic results!

Congratulations Sam on the great trip, fantastic hunt and the excellent results of your experimentation and bullet development.

Thanks guys,

Yes it was a great hunt and bullets performed great! The 577 is an awesome gun! I was glad to be the first to take dangerous game with the BBW#13. I will be very interested to hear how 465H&H did with his 470 and the BBW#13's on his elephant.

Sam

quote:

I was glad to be the first to take dangerous game with the BBW#13.

Sam it is only appropriate that its designer proved the design. Again congradulations!

Congrats on a complete success!!!
It is so great to see this work so well!!!

quote:

Originally posted by srose:

Sam,

Thanks for sharing some nice photos with us.
Beautiful rifle, and sturdy too - who built it?
Could you give us some basic detail of rifle, caliber, bullet weight and % meplat, velocity.
Distance of shot and depth of penetration if available.
Is it a pure copper bullet or an alloy?
With its COG so far forward it is bound to be very stable in-target.
Excellent performace on a frontal head shot.

Warrior

Warrior,

My rifle used on this hunt is a Verney Carron 577 Nitro Express. It has 24 inch barrels and weighs approx 13 lbs. It originally came with 2 recoil reducers in the stock but I removed them because the gun was just too heavy at 14.5 lbs. The ammo I loaded using Reloder 15 powder at 120 grains and a Federal 215 primer. I used one 1/8 inch card wad over the powder. The bullet is a Cutting Edge Bullets (CEB) copper 2 band solid of my design. The bullet has a 71% meplat and weighs 750 grains. The velocity of this load out of my gun is 1975 fps. I'm not sure of the copper alloy but I will try and find out for you. This 2 band bullet has regulated the best of any bullets I have fired in my doubles. You can see a little further back in the Terminals thread where Michael and I shot this gun in our tests. We have tested this design in several calibers so far and they have all performed well. Penetration with this nose profile has been excellent, very deep and straight. The penetration on my elephant was approx 6 feet total. The shot was made from about 15 yards away from the elephant.

Sam

Great pics, Sam
My congrats on a very successfull hunt, test bed and report.
Get well soon

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Finishing shots fired into the chest towards the hips were found under the skin also. Sam

Please do post some photos of the other recovered bullets, both the BBW#13 finishers fired into the chest (how far did they penetrate??) And also the pics of the cup point bullets used on buff and warthog..
Hope you are getting better Sam..

Ulrik

Buffalo,

I will try and post those photos tomorrow, I left the bullets at my office. The finishers on the elephant we only found one which was stuck in the skin on the back somewhere near the hips. We pulled the skin off with a truck so I can't be positive where it was. The skinners found when fleshing the skin later.
The cup point used the kill the buffalo exited so I don't have that one. The PH did dig around in the dirt and found the 2 finishers which I will photo. The cup point from the warthog was found behind the shoulder between the skin and ribs. I'll post photos of rest of the bullets tomorrow including the 416 Non-Cons used on 2 buffalo.

Sam

peterdk,

quote:

so even though the bullet were tumbling, you will lay claim to the fact that it actually TUMBLES in a straight line because of your design. i find it an amasing thing that anybody besides your son in law belives the bs you are sprouting.

The evidence is clear. The bullet did not veer, penetration was linear. I made no claim so your quote above is incorrect. However, If you do not know how to design a bullet that gives linear penetration, even when it has overturned, do not assume that it cannot be done. The technology is far from new on this.

quote:

the fact that you have lied to me in the past, and still comes here and wants me and others to belive your sad statments is really beyond belief.

Obviously your nose is out of joint about something. Where did I lie to you?

quote:

this is just a suggestion from me to you, accept your failure and appoligize to the client, then do what ever you have to, to make your failure and flaws go away in the best way.

You seem to be the only person here who thinks that RIP's first shot was a failure. Similar shots with c&c bullets fail regularly in the sense that the animal escapes or has to be shot again. RIP's report resulted in reminders of such accounts. Any time that a soft punches through the humerus of a cape buff and stays on course, is a good one. The apology needed here is from you, I think.

quote:

Dont make statements that you cant/wont back up as it will catch up to you eventually.

Clearly you are trying to do some catching up. So, what is it that you are bitter and twisted about?

quote:

sadly i dont have the time to see how you are trying to make it rip's fault and after that make a spin about you actually made the design to do just what it did.

It is beyond your grasp that a design can act as it did. This is not the first time this has happened. Reports from people, who use GSC bullets and find that their terminal performance reliability is a cut above, abound. The fact that a large part of my testing was/is done on live game in the field, accounts for that. What happened to RIP is not conjecture, it mirrors what I have seen and what many customers have reported over the last 13 years.

quote:

what i am most interested in is now you claim that you designed the bullet to TUMBLE straight after penetrating bone etc.

Now there is that lie again. Where did I say that? Give us the link.

quote:

what i really like about this tread is that people actually prove their claims, now i would love to see you prove this with the tests you did, i am actually eagerly awaiting this.

Testing of this aspect has long passed more than ten years ago and, regrettably, it was not as well documented as what Michael is doing here. Now we recount actual successes. One that shows how HV softs react when they hit very solid bones is right here. http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/1771094441 There are many more here and here.

quote:

but knowing you i think i wont be holding my breath for this.

You do not know me at all. Running from accusations such as yours is not my style. I am tired of being a punchbag for all and sundry who know nothing.

quote:

I love the way you tried to convince everybody that it were a brisket shot.

The video will tell who made the right call, not so? I look forward to it.

quote:

now if we look at the evidence, and take in account what the witness all ready stated and looking at the first bullet failure. the n this would be just as likely a senario:

Buff no. 2

151 yards shot towards the chest.

bullet hit front rib, bullet nose destroyed, making bullet tumble, bullet weering off course exciting down through ribcase, ricocheting in the dust 5 yards behind the buff.

buff lost because of another bullet failure(one bullet failure all ready in evidence), now did i forget something in the evidence, or should we just try to blame the shooter again.

he himself actually mentioned that it might have hit a rib, before you made your spin on this and blamed him instead.

If you knew the anatomy of a cape buff, you would realise that your assessment is not possible.

Look at the two illustrations of cape buff in RIP's post and you will see why.

Any frontal chest shot that hits high enough to enter and exit the thoracic cavity, will also hit the heart or lungs, even if it veers off course. No lung blood was found, not even one drop.

Any shot that hits high enough to hit brisket or rib and ricochet off it, without entering the thoracic cavity, will not come to ground at the angle and distance indicated by the pictures. The only exeption to that would be if the buffalo was a short way up a tree and I am sure RIP would have mentioned it, if it were so.

The main reason why your assessment is fiction is in the evidence. You want us to believe that a bullet, capable of hitting the humerus at an extreme angle and penetrating straight through it, is incapable of penetrating straight through a rib or the brisket. Both are much easier to penetrate than the humerus. You want us to believe that the insurance shot, fired at close range and which hit ribs at an angle, yet mushroomed well and penetrated straight into the chest cavity, supports your scenario?

quote:

P.S name calling etc. wont state your case any better, as far as i can see you and your design are yesterdays news, and about equally as usefull.

From where I stand, the only one who is name calling here is you. Have you ever pulled the trigger on any GSC bullet? No? So what makes you an expert on how they work?

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
CCMDoc,

......

I was very pleased with how the 577 did and really don't think I can go back to my smaller doubles for hunting dangerous game. The 577 sure packs a punch!

Sam

So I can have the 450/400 now eh?!!!

Great stuff Sam. Sorry to hear you have been unwell. Get well soon mate!

Is that your first dental patient Sam?!!!

Nice work my friend! Glad you are better

quote:

Originally posted by srose:

Nakihunter,

Good try but no dice my friend. I still have lots of deer to shoot with the 450-400.

Sam

Good Morning guys!

Sam, you did it! Can't get any better than that! Not only did you slam dunk the elephant with frontal brain shot, did it with the most effect 577 Nitro bullet to ever hit the continent of Africa, the one and only CEB BBW #13, but you did it on 11/13/2010, surely an omen in and of itself, and to boot was able to recover the bullet an get a good idea of it's performance! How does it get better than that? Also being the very first individual on the planet to take an elephant with a bullet designed to do just what it did! All that test work paid off in the end you think? A lot of work to get to that point!

I was told at the beginning of this thread, a year ago, that the test work was totally useless, that it had no purpose, was not realistic, that it meant nothing, that it did not reflect real world experience! I said BS then---I say BS now! It begins in the "lab", and carries over from there! End of Story!

Excellent Job Sam--Splendid!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Good Morning guys!
Michael

Good morning Michael. Welcome back, you have been away for some days - was worried that another wisdomstooth gave you trouble...

Hey Buff

No man, was just away for our Thanksgiving Holiday last week is all. Was in the mts of NC--they have to pump sunshine into that place at times just to have light. Internet? They don't really know what that is yet, so I had no service there at all. They just now got TV and electricity there!

I did have an excellent visit last week with the boys at Accurate Innovations up there. Man, they are really coming along. I was pleased to get a tour of the facility and see some of the great things they are working on, and get a better understanding of what they do and how. Also, was happy to pick up 2 rifles with new AI stocks, and 5 new stocks to go on other rifles I am building right now. All very nice XX English and Turkish Walnut!

We only got back home yesterday afternoon. So I have been very busy this morning catching up on things.

I have learned now, get a problem with a tooth, down half a gallon of Sake, followed by 5 shots of Grey Goose, and get a large set of pliers and snatch the problem out quickly! No big deal! Hell, I don't need that many teeth anyway! HEH HEH!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I have learned now, get a problem with a tooth, down half a gallon of Sake, followed by 5 shots of Grey Goose, and get a large set of pliers and snatch the problem out quickly! No big deal! Hell, I don't need that many teeth anyway! HEH HEH!

Michael

You will end up like this....
http://dinfar.dk/wp-content/woo_custom/35-692.jpg

But hell - nobody cares in the bush..
hahahahahahahaa

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I have learned now, get a problem with a tooth, down half a gallon of Sake, followed by 5 shots of Grey Goose, and get a large set of pliers and snatch the problem out quickly! No big deal! Hell, I don't need that many teeth anyway! HEH HEH!

Michael

You will end up like this....
http://dinfar.dk/wp-content/woo_custom/35-692.jpg

But hell - nobody cares in the bush..
hahahahahahahaa

Hey, I don't remember anyone getting that photo of me????

HE HEH HEH!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Good Morning guys!

I was told at the beginning of this thread, a year ago, that the test work was totally useless, that it had no purpose, was not realistic, that it meant nothing, that it did not reflect real world experience! I said BS then---I say BS now! It begins in the "lab", and carries over from there! End of Story!

Excellent Job Sam--Splendid!

Michael

Michael,

How dare you believe that the scientific method has any merit! This from a man to whom the word "tooth" brush will soon actually apply!

Welcome back to the world of AR - your brothers-in-arms have been defending your honor quite nicely.

These are the .416 330 grain Non Con's recovered from 2 buffalo. All bases were found in hide on far side. Buffalo didn't need a second shot, both down within feet.

These are the 2 BBW#13's recovered from dirt after going through my buffalo for finishing shots.

This is my BBW cup point brass bullet recovered from warthog. Bullet shattered jaw and teeth then went through back of skul and lodged behind shoulder.