For those interested in doing my 585 in a PH or
other actions we got reloading dies now. Made by CH4D
CH4D has some more dies and is set up to make more.
You can get dies from CH4D or me. Also have bunch of reamers.
I'll loan use of reamers for chambering, and anyone
doing one I give a few cases to get started.
Once a few of us are going, Jamison can make a run of cases.
Second pic is of dies, reamers, and part of cases I have.
You or smith can use reamer and return to me
as I have a guy who can keep them sharpened, for next guy.
I have it in 3 guns, a Big Enfield, a BBK Ultra Mag,
and a Ruger 77. The 602 would do fine, like new CZs.
I'm going to do one in Ruger #1 later on.
Third pic is the Ruger. This cartridge is good for
7000 to 13,000 ft lbs, Loads all tested.Brass will reload
couple dozen tmes due to it straight belted design.
Case has perfect taper, as they with heavy loads, come out
of chamber with just the weight of the bolt. Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Jeff is good guy, who against huge odds is
going deliver the best/biggest non-BMG
action soon to us nuts..Ed

Ed,

Anything new on the delivery dates?

Last I heard about delivery was "March" but they hedged their bets by not specifing year.

Here is picture of a NEF breach barrel section that I threaded
monoblock style for a .585" cal barrel, to make a NEF 585HE.
It goes on a SB2 10-12ga alloy, super strong frame. Its
OD is 1.210" and the barrel that screws into it will be tapered
to match contour and it will be 1.00" at muzzle, at 32" long.
I figure that my 585 will extract due to its good taper from
the NEF at 45,000 psi loads, and bolt thrust will match the
12ga RMC case loads I use on the same type gun.And a 45k load
with powders I use will get me 10,000 ft lbs. MRc sent everyone
letters saying finishing PH is getting closer.ED

I say God Bless ED Hubel!!!! He has been as persistent as a badger on this project.

And the guys at MRC who have taken on a project about as likely to occur as me winning the lottery, and are bringing it home in a high grade action, chrome moly or stainless, at a working man's price!! Our patience and faith will be rewarded shortly. One of mine is going to be a 585HE, and the other one is open to speculation...

Rich
Buff Killer

It would be interesting to note that the largest factory round unaltered that will fit in this action is the 577 NE
The 577 NE rim is smaller than the 700 DA/HE rim
Maybe this is a cheap way to get into a 577 nitro other than a single shot.

Ed...

What cal donor barrel did you use for the monoblock???

Which SB-2 action will you use???

And what TPI did you use to thread the monoblock???

I've been kicking around the same idea for a while, trying to decide if sending my SB2 USH receiver in to have another rifled 12 ga USH barrel fitted then using it as a donor monoblock for another barrel for my 12GaFH USH platform.

I had in mind to do a 50-140 or possibly some .500-.600 cal using the Jeffrey or Gibbs case as a base...something that is already available like the 505 Gibbs, 577 BME or your 585 HE...an "in between" the 50 cal and 12GaFH.

Thanks

I used a 585 barrel, 32" long, 1 to 22 twist.
Chambered for my 585HE belted case.
I used a SB2 10ga action which is same as the 12ga
Ultra actions.I cut it off to make a 4" long monoblock.
and threaded it 1 inch by 14tpi. I'm going to do a second
one in 28GA FH. My 585 is best as the follewing info will
show. I have a 45-70 extractor coming to rework for it.
I am firing first bunchs of test loads without
an extractor, and loads with 650 gr bullets at 2450 and
750 gr bullets at 2250 didn't need the extractor. They
come out with my fingers. Over 8000 ft lbs.I getting thumbhole
stock, because those with higher velocities of 200fps, or
more, harder to hold on to grip.Guard bangs the fingers
And higher velocity cases come out with a pry from my thumbnail.
Here is picture of rear of gun and the fixins(bullets/cases).
You see a fired case in the chamber, and I have cone breach
setup so that case is in same relationship to chamber as it
is in my three 585HE bolt guns.That is why I can get cases
with my fingers. The hairier loads of
650 at 2650, 750 at 2450 is 10,000 ft lbs. Ed

Thanks Ed.

I LIKE that coned breach setup. I've been milling a 0.150" wide notch on the right side of the barrel for a slightly modified screwdriver blade to pop out those cases that stick enough where the ejector won't work on the smaller cases...my 6 BR and 17 FB stick even though the loads are at least 10% below max.

Is the forend band used because you didn't install a forend mount, or what?

You will like the thumbhole stock much better, but get the solid walnut one from Gunstocks, Inc, http://www.gunstocksinc.com/index.html. Even though you have to finish it, it is much more substantial. Plenty of wood for fitting to your hand and pull length, plus a nice cheek piece. Makes shooting the 12GaFH much more pleasant and controlable. I first bought the one NEF OEM laminated one, but it was too small and too slick to do much good.

Where/who did you get your barrel from?

Who does your brass? Prices.

Thanks

Luck on your projects.

I'm getting the big butted plastic one like
I put on the 8ga NEF I made. It is hollow
and I can get weight up easy. And I can
add extra screw through the bottom of grip
to hold stock to the gun. And it is both R/L
handed and super strong. The recoil barrel
band is for holding forearm in place along
with the 1/4 inch screw in regular hole, both
needed as the forearm is weighted.That band is
on some of my other guns also and it is the
lower stock band of an Enfield.
Oh and barrel is ported on the top 1/4 near
muzzle. This is a really fun gun, you get 8,000
ft lbs, and extract cases with fingers.
And in my other bolt 585s I can get over
12,000 ft lbs if wanted. Ed

Ed

That one would work very well also. I looked at a couple of different synthetic stocks but didn't really like their looks so I went the other direction.

Found a barrel at PacNor, 1-18 twist.


How about the brass???

Available from you or...???


I chased the different threads and came up with Jamison, Horneber and Bertram, but haven't contacted them yet.

I want to do one more "bigbore" before I give it up. Still working through the 50 cals. Though I would go with the 500 AHR and work up a Savage LA all ready for a barrel, but wanted a larger caliber so I think the NEF will get the nod again...belted or rimmed.

Thanks

Luck on your projects.

I have some brass.If you do my 585-700HE cartridges you get some cases
free and use of reamers. Return reamers, for next guy. I have guy to keep
them sharp. Once a bunch of us are going with 585HE we
will pool resources and get large brass run at Jamison
who already has the plans, specs, and drawings.
I have dies and CH4D has dies.Ed

Thanks Ed...I'm working throught the cost analysis and other problems. Have email out to Pac-Nor for barrel price.

So far, no matter what large bore I look at the dies and barrel will run about $600, and $4-$6 bucks a pop for the specialty brass is NOT very appealing for my application.

The 338 RUM cases came today and I will order some Jamison 416 Rigby to play with and maybe a couple of 505 Gibbs if I can find them for sale one at a time...

Don't know how far I will actually get with this project, but at least I will get a 10 Ga barrel fitted to my SB2 frame so I will be ready to do a stub barrel "something" in the 50 cal and over area.

I will be watching the 585 BHE with interest.

Luck on your project.

Thanks

The 585 dies are 187 bucks, and Jamison
said he could make 585HE cases for 3 bucks with a
decent size run.Cases will last a long time.
Like 20 times or more.With loads like in
NEF maybe 40 times.Barrel about 310 bucks.
You'll have cases from me to fire 250 rounds
or more, before they wear out.
I have plenty of reamers.Ed

At least the amortized value isn't half bad... just got the quote from Pac-Nor...$371 for a CM, 34", #8 taper, .577 cal.

Ordered some 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs brass from Buffalo Arms today to do some playing.

I'm wondering about the 585 Nyati, probably already been answered several times, I just can't find it by searching.

Graf & Sons has Nyati brass for sale. I found a drawing of one to study. I read it was originally developed by Ross Seyfried a 577 NE with the rim turned.

My question is...Has anyone done a 585 using the 505 Gibbs brass???

It seems to me to be a shoo in and I know someone must have thought about doing one long ago...I just can't find any reference to one. Not a lot of case volume difference. Shouldn't be much trouble to get an already functioning 505 Gibbs rifle to "grow up"...or am I missing all the relevant points???

This project may take a while.

Thanks for the info. I'm getting the pins knocked down one at a time at least.

Luck on your projects.

I was going to try to make a bunch of belted ones
on Gibbs, at Boonies suggestion. Hoping to be easier to
make than mine I make from Nyati. But it didn't go easy
and work out. I stopped as I had mine done and firing
years before and when MRC decided to finish PH action
that was a good platform for the big case, so I
got back to doing it again. Got reamers, dies, PHs,etc.
Gibbs one didn't have best taper like I want.
And mine holds over 30 gr more powder like I wanted.
And mine will outdo the Trex, while coasting along,
in a NEF!!Today got 750 gr to 2600 with case extracting
with a pry from real small screwdriver.Case only expanded .002".
When I get extractor it'll do little more.
I use recoil(sissy) bag , until thumbhole gets here. Ed.

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:

My question is...Has anyone done a 585 using the 505 Gibbs brass???

It seems to me to be a shoo in and I know someone must have thought about doing one long ago...I just can't find any reference to one.

Done in Australia I think by John Saunders of century arms/london guns fame a decade or two ago. They were fobbing it off as a Nyati but I think the story goes it was really a 505/577.
I saw one of these rifles surface again for sale about ten years ago.

karl

I BELIEVE I was the first american to put a .585 in a gibbs basic case. I was on the phone with Neal, we talked about it, and decided it was too much work to scrape a belt. i then called boomie, told him all about it, and then came the BME.

Why not do a .600Ok? Cases are readily available,bullets are easy to come by, you have the option of mild to wild loads and .600 barrels are just as easy to come by as .577.
As for the monoblock, I've had great success with 15/16 32tpi. threads on my monoblocks.-Rob

Rob,
15/16x32 is what i used on the 550 flanged.

and "why not the 600" is exactly the comparisson that neal and I used .. in other words, just not worth the trouble to make a 585 belted gibbs

The 600 OK has plenty of advantages but some have a 577 itch. Well with the price of 577 NE brass and Gibbs brass are within 50 cents $3 vs $3.50 there is an argument to make a 3" shouldered design on the 577 NE case by reducing the rim to .640" to work in a CZ and adding an extractor groove. yes there is the 2.8" Nyati and the 2.85" AHR but a full 3" case, a long neck say .8" with a sharp 35 or 40 degree shoulder, 15 thou taper over 2" of case body length and 20 thou per side shoulders. A 577 Rimless Nitro Express made from the full length 577 case.

So first Gibbs 585 idea in US was jeffes.....
Making any of them from other cases is work. But I had mine
designed and done for a few years. Mine easier to make
from Nyati basic than making from Gibbs, as extra taper helps
in and out of swage dies. My taper both sides is .027", one
from Gibbs is only .011". Don't want to mention too many troubles
but in making the few Gibbs ones,I broke 4 shellholders,
and non on the my 585HE ones made from Nyati cases
and I use the best brand name lubes, so size and and taper
do matter a lot.As evidenced by hairy loads in NEf
that I can take outcases with my fingers.Everyone say
577 is great, well the actual cases I've seen as they come
from a manufacturer .047" taper.....So taper is good?

My 585HE tested extensively, in 4 different guns
extracts perfect, cases go forever. The bunch
of cases I have here made to get guys started was
from some good Nyati brass, head and pocket perfectly centered,
the way that the cases will be when Jamison makes them.

Everyone seems to want to have a cartridge case/caliber
for every ten thousands inch of space on the scale, and I want
to fill the 585 space with mine. We have reasonable brass,
of design that allows many reloads, fast loads at low pressures,
with supply of reamers done, with dies going, and an action
priced way lower than the custom ones,soon out. That smiths can
setup easy, with my reamers for free use. I'll keep them sharp.

And 585HE case got a nice big boost, I don't know how,
by being listed in new Bluebook Ammo Encyclopedia, along with
my 700HE.And I got deal soon to be set this summer to have
the loot, along with the help from the guys doing the guns,
to get a big run of cases done. Maybe 10-12,000 or more.
And some collector friends who've got few of them over a time are
selling them on the net!!!Ed

Ps- They are as powerful as any 3" 600 out there.

Thanks all. Being new to the really BIG BOREs I just never looked all that deep into those offerings until the last year or so.

It just struck me a couple of days ago while working throught the various caliber iterations of today, that the Gibbs case would have been my pick as a starting point for a larger cal wildcat.

But after thinking about it for a while in bed I figured out it would end up basically a straight walled, roughly 0.025" tapered rimless cartridge that would need to be headspaced on the case mouth...not a very good combination for a DGR, double rifle OR a single shot. And there are several other reasons it never caught on. I see why Ross S. used the 577 NE case. At least it has some kind of shoulder to work with, plus more putz.

Sometimes a little egg on one's face is a the quicker road to "larnin'".

I don't have any experience on doing belts, just read about it way back in the day. Not something I'm prepared to try. Formed or turned belts by those who know what they're doing works for me.

Thanks for the heads up on the threads also. 15/16x32 leaves a quite a bit more meat on the plate.

Looking at it from the standpoint of the square threaded Marlin 336 receivers and the 45-50 Alaskan/450 Yukon (RUM case) and how the levergun smiths solved the problem in that particular niche, the slightly smaller dia and shallower minor thread diameter would fatten up one side but skinny down the other, so to speak, but I suspect the chamber wall thickness using either the 1" or 15/16 is plenty strong enough to handle the lower pressures. The rim OD of the 10 ga is very close to 15/16" so it might just be nothing but a reaming/threading job with the 15/16 thread. Won't know for sure until I get the 10 ga barrel in my grubby little hands and whip out the measuring devices. AND, the difference in minor dia's leaves an open question, roughly 0.070" isn't unsubstantial.

I have been looking at the 600 OK also and Ed's 700 HE. I just split the difference between the 50 cal and the 73 cal as the place to start.

The 600 is almost exactly in the middle. The 700 HE is just too close to the 12GaFH, sort of a duplication of caliber. The 585 seemed to be fairly prevalent on this forum, so a nice starting point to work up the availability of all components and cost.

With Ed already having all the needed items and having done the NEF, I won't have to re-invent the wheel so to speak. Plus having a reamer available keeps the costs WAY down and "standardizes" it also.

Some of the comments I read about the Nyati and the numerous variations in dimensions puts a question on that cartridge in my mind...unless it has been "standardized" by having the cases factory made. None of the reamer rental places have anything other than the 577 NE 3".

Baring hitting a "lotto"(no such luck), the 12GaFH and whatever other caliber I do are just toys to "get my kicks" with. Only rocks, paper targets and the odd rat have to worry.

It always takes a while to work through the process and decide. Along the way I've met some of the real experts and they have extended my knowledge base by a large amount.

I started off with the .490-.510. Have worked up to the .620 cal and have two platforms ready to go when I decide which way to jump. I keep buying my lotto tickets just in case and saving my pennies. Hahahahahaha

If Murphy doesn't stick me, I will get this project well on it's way by years end. With any luck I could end up with TWO shooters by next years end, I still have a RUM or Rigby based 50 cal on the side.

Thanks again all.

Luck on your quest.

FWIW, I'm very pleased with my results with Rob's .600OK and will heartily recommend it to anyone looking for a BIG big bore.

I keep thinking about a 12gaFH or some other gauge rifle but "mild to wild" and everything inbetween, the .600OK is a well designed and functioning cartridge.

The 585 is to the 600 what the 458 is to the 470. A bit less powerful but better bullet choice and velocities. Also the lighter bullets still have some historical pedigree for those who care. For example a 577/585 with 650gn softs or solids still looks and sounds the part.
The 600 needs to be wearing its famous 900gn recoil generator to get in to the same party.

The 577-600 OK (577RLG) is a good option too.
I think using already headstamped full length 577 NE cases has some charm.

FWIW- Even though I created the .577/.600Ok cartridge I never found it much of an advantage. Fireforming was a PIA and with a 750gr bullet the .600Ok will do anything the .577/.600 can. Brass for the .600Ok is readily available, as are reloading dies and lotsa bullets. GOOD RELOADING DATA EXISTS AND ITS BEEN PROVEN ON GAME. Personally, the bigger diameter, heavier bullet always wins in my book. I also still have such a bad taste in my mouth from the .585 Nyati, that I'm just not interested in anything .577.-Rob

Was there a chamber drawing of the 600 OK posted anywhere.????

I've been Googling but so far only found pictures of loaded cartridges and brass plus a line drawing in my LD5.

Anyone other than AHR have brass???

Luck on your projects.

foobar- Jamison makes .600Ok brass as well as Horneber. I have quite a bit of the Horneber stuff and might part with some.. It lasts forever. Still using my original cases.-Rob

I've got the chamber drawings as well as the reamer.-rob

A 577 is of good benefit in California with the 600 and above ban

You guys still talkin' about those non-existant California bans?

OK, what is the 600 law in Cali?

The one you guys dreamed up? Go back and find my post #10,000 and read the links I posted there. I leave you guys alone here for a few weeks and ya'll is gettin' mo & mo lazy.

I know this is the PH thread but the 600 OK is the perfect size to make the 577 Rimless Nitro Express 3" for the CZ. the casehead is the same size as the 577 NE. You could have a rimless and shouldered bolt action design of the 577 NE 3" to work on a CZ. Just need to take the belt off. Why did I not see this before .8" neck 20 thou shoulders. 15 thou taper over 2" of body 35 or 40 degree shoulders. Good 600 OK donor brass.

Or just use the 577 NE reamer and add a belt to the dies and chamber
577 belted Rimless Nitro Express. That is the best and cheapest way to get a bolt action 577 NE variant.

The PH can take the rimmed 577 NE.

Belted, rimmed, shouldered 577 NE...Take your pick!

That just makes another Nyati variety, Ross Seyfreid
and his smith had a 3 inch version years ago also.....
And case still has all the headaches to make
and fireform as Rob stated above.

Some observations............

When folks don't get behind a cartridge that has had
huge investment in time, money, supplies, testing,
we have whatever...

Prime example-Rob put years ,time, money, testing on 600 OK.
Because this site is closed to the rest of the "gun posting
on the net fraternity", you couldn't/can't get the info on google
from this site over the years to help make the OK famous.
Some didn't get behind it here, because they had own ideas,
and then Rob turned it over to AHR. The only forums that AHR
is hardly mentioned on is here and site can't be googled now.
And they are expensive which loses some guys.

RESULT- THE 600 OK AND NEW NAME, 600 AHR AS WELL AS 585 AHR
AND THE MIS-NAMED 700 AHR ...ARE NOT EVEN IN THE BLUEBOOK AMMO
ENCYLOPEDIA. A real great ammo book.

No mention of AHR or 600 OK.......... Damn ...

This toy will never go to Africa or outside Oregon for that matter.

For my application - rocks, rats and rags(paper targets) and the NEF receiver, either the 585 or 620 cal will work...it boils down to the lowest cost.

Barrel and dies will run $600 no matter which one I pick.

Brass cost is a wash.

It boils down to the reamer cost, so Ed's 585 HE is the top runner and that one appeals to me more than the 600 OK for a number of reasons.

Unless I can find a freebee or rental 600 OK reamer, that one is out.

I can make my own bullets out of either solid brass or lead.

Where is the pot at the end of the rainbow when I need it????

It's looking better and better that it might happen.

Luck on your projects.

quote:

I know this is the PH thread but the 600 OK is the perfect size to make the 577 Rimless Nitro Express 3" for the CZ. the casehead is the same size as the 577 NE. You could have a rimless and shouldered bolt action design of the 577 NE 3" to work on a CZ. Just need to take the belt off. Why did I not see this before .8" neck 20 thou shoulders. 15 thou taper over 2" of body 35 or 40 degree shoulders. Good 600 OK donor brass.

Or just use the 577 NE reamer and add a belt to the dies and chamber
577 belted Rimless Nitro Express. That is the best and cheapest way to get a bolt action 577 NE variant.

The PH can take the rimmed 577 NE.

Belted, rimmed, shouldered 577 NE...Take your pick!

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
That just makes another Nyati variety, Ross Seyfreid
and his smith had a 3 inch version years ago also.....
And case still has all the headaches to make
and fireform as Rob stated above.

Some observations............

When folks don't get behind a cartridge that has had
huge investment in time, money, supplies, testing,
we have whatever...

Prime example-Rob put years ,time, money, testing on 600 OK.
Because this site is closed to the rest of the "gun posting
on the net fraternity", you couldn't/can't get the info on google
from this site over the years to help make the OK famous.
Some didn't get behind it here, because they had own ideas,
and then Rob turned it over to AHR. The only forums that AHR
is hardly mentioned on is here and site can't be googled now.
And they are expensive which loses some guys.

RESULT- THE 600 OK AND NEW NAME, 600 AHR AS WELL AS 585 AHR
AND THE MIS-NAMED 700 AHR ...ARE NOT EVEN IN THE BLUEBOOK AMMO
ENCYLOPEDIA. A real great ammo book.

No mention of AHR or 600 OK.......... Damn ...

Yes some good observations obviously...
So there was a full length Nyati..._____ minds think alike but I think a sharper shoulder and longer neck is a better design.

The cool thing about using the 600 OK brass and otherwise same dimensions as the 577 NE is it is a verrrrrry close tribute cart that is bolt action friendly. Using 577 NE dies and reamers is pretty cool.

Boomie if you have a original Horneber 600 OK case,
the first factory 600 OK, please section it at base,
lengthwise.Here is what 3 belted cases of mine look
like. They are my belted 585, 620, and 700.
You can see plenty of thickness in corners where
the belt is............Ed

I think you have a silent majority of gun owners out there who all think pretty much alike. You see it when there is a survey on best African hunting caliber and it come in 416. But when it come time to talk, its all about how you need a 900 magnum.

There are so few honest gaps in hunting ctgs. Well I only see one today, thats the bolt action 577 class gun. Not a Brontosaur or A_Hole but a hunting ctg like 577NE for a bolt. The Nyati looks like crap with the same stupid design flaws(compromises) as 500 jeff.

Now we have the PH action and CZ 550. What we dont have is a right proportioned ctg.

Ed 585 is great, but a 3" would be right balance with sensible hunting load of 750 gr at 2100 fps. Boom understands this. Seems obvious.

it just like all those decades of 458 win mag and 460 weatherby. Finally before I died the Lott! Finally, damn why did that take so long? ....

Now here we go again with the 577/600 ctgs.