JD,

I suggest you buy the solids Mac has left, there may not be any more run for awhile. You have a PM that covers everything not written here.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

hello
i dont know much about this action, would it make a good dg action. yes i know its called the ph action but im just asking if it is a good option. im thinking of a left hand rigby 416 i think. thanks for the help

Rich,
RCBS will make you one for about 20 bucks

Rich the regular BMG holder that goes in
Ammomaster can be got at CH and Rcbs, and
the Lee big press has one also. Regular Bmg
holder does it.The rim is .770". Yes you
could cast, but Copperhead Custon makes a
825gr and 1000 gr for 700s. And they are
beautiful bullets like the ones Martin made
for me. Your Oregon guy maybe could do it to,
as didn't he get Martin's stuff.Here is pic of a
long and 2 short cases with Woodleigh bullets,
and bullet Copperhead makes.. Ed

ED

CH4D wants the 12ga FH data as well case drawing and reamer print.

22WRF- I think they have 3 bolt face recesses,
call them back and let them know size
you want.

Neal- I will get with Rob on absolute
final size and one of us will get it to
CH4D.Ed

22wrf,

standard mag bolt face, .532"
Rigby bolt face, .58X
Gibbs bolt face, .640"

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

550 Gibbs, what else?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Idaho

How far back will a 550 Gibbs push a 170 lb. man?

if he holds the gun right, his shoulder will move in a 2 foot circle, and if not, his front foot will come off the ground

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Idaho

How far back will a 550 Gibbs push a 170 man?

Ask Rodney {500 Jeffery}

He is about that weight and shot top loads. He did ok after a few shots.

Now he is building one!

"""push a 170 lb man"""

About 3/4 as far as the 585 Belted and half
as far as my 700H....Haha...

Here goes..........

The 585 reamer will be here in short while, then goes to
Rich, with cases ,will come back here for sharpening
if needed(got a guy who can do it in a few min).
Then to next guy with 15 free cases to get
him started, then reamer back here and so
on to next guy with 15 free cases. If there is
a huge demand we will get 2nd reamer, and
once a bunch of guys are going and demand
for cases is up we will get a run of brass made.

About time the PH action starts showing up I will
have reamer for 700H and same deal, use reamer get
15 cases to get you started. I have big
bunch of these cases done........Burning question,
of why. I want to promote these two cartridges
as well as MY NAME with them. I have gone to slow
and along with delays in getting stuff, it
is taking years to long. No more. I have
decided to take the bull by the horns, and get
it done before I croak, it's hell getting old.
I have my own guns here firing these and time to
get them out in the world in other guys guns.

It's the wanting to be half as famous as Elmer thing...Ed

Not having been much of a big bore guy before I drove out to Cabelas this evening for the hell of it to look at their big bore cartridge board.

2 peaked my interest. The .416 Rigby and the .505 Gibbs. I didn't see any .550 Gibbs on that board. Must be a wildcat. Anyway, that .416 Rigby looks like it would handle just about anything I might ever shoot.

The 577 BME is a cylindrical 505 Gibbs case with the body reduced .020"+/-, and a belt swaged on. Ed's 585 HE is the full length cylindrical case with the same dimensions as the 577. It precedes the 577BME by over a year. The logic behind shortening the case was to appeal to a commercial arms builder who's _ _ _ has a magazine box limited to 3.750" loaded rounds. It made sense at the time, so I built a prototype.

With the PH action and its' 4" box, an OAL with either cartridge of 3.950" is doable. Either one will work, loaded rounds I have made measure 3.800" with the 1018gr cast NEI bullets. Case length is inconsequential for loading purposes in the PH or the CZ 505 Gibbs action. For Ruger or Enfield conversions, the short one is better; especially if you use a bullet in the 750gr length. Macifej's Copper solids are 738gr and measure 1.372" in length.

My concept for the 550 Gibbs is to match or exceed classic 577NE 3" power levels, to wit: a 750gr bullet at a true 2150fps.
The goal for the 577BME/585HE is to match or exceed the standard .600NE power levels, to wit: a 900gr bullet at a true 2150fps. Ed is waaay past those numbers with his 585 HE and 650/750gr bullets.
Actually, I will end up with a 2250fps MV load with those weight bullets.

I spoke with Ed earlier this evening, and I am going to rechamber my 3" case to the full-length 585HE. Ed got with CH4D and will have dies available in a couple weeks. That is the advantage for me. The 577 BME can be loaded with the 585HE dies for those so inclined. I feel we need to get behind Ed and the 3.2" 585 HE case on these PH actions.

Now, where's the box with the PH action in it?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich,
To correct your post a little.. the 3.2 could be properly loaded with 3" case dies.. the 3.2 dies won't resize or crimp a 3" case, no more than a lott die will PROPERLY work winmag brass.. but winmag dies will work the lott brass.

Any action that the 505 fits into, whether from
factory or smith, my 585BHE will fit. They
are same loaded length with a 750 gr bullet
in 585. I have Enfield box here 4" long.
People aren't running around asking to cut
.200" off of 505 cases. I can't stand cutting
off cases when there is no reason. If the
belted design wasn't mine, around for years,
in a firing gun, I wouldn't care,
but I made couple cases years ago, in
late 90s when I got done testing my 458HE. In
2004 decided to use it in Enfield, it took 2 years to get abarrel, but I had it firing in
summer of 2006.I only want my case with my
name on it. And there will be two reamers
for 585BHE,I want to try to get it out there
as fast as possible, as well as my 700H.
I'll furnish reamers, keep them sharp, and
cases to get guys started, CH4D will have
specs to build the dies...Ed

quote:

Macifej's Copper solids are 738gr and measure 1.372" in length.

Rich's Macifej 750 FN solids are 738 grain and 1.372" long cause they are first run samples.

The production bullet is 750 Grain and 1.395" long........

Mac- That's a good design, as a 750 Woodleigh
is 1.25" so your design isn't overly long,
so it would hold same powder, if wanted as
Woodleigh crimped in the groove, and still
fit 4" box. Woodleigh crimped in the groove
of 585BHE is 3.82"...Ed

Top of the forward groove to the nose is .7000".

There are five grooves for crimping so seat it where you may.

Mac- I will have super backstop done when
weather breaks. How much for 20 of those
585 solids to test in a few weeks.
I will put the shit to them, see how they
do at good speed...Ed

Here is picture of my 585 BHE with a 505,
to show that any gun for 505 will do my
585 for length. It has 750 gr in it for
the picture, and my 585 will be
headstamped.....Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Mac- I will have super backstop done when
weather breaks. How much for 20 of those
585 solids to test in a few weeks.
I will put the shit to them, see how they
do at good speed...Ed

PM Sent.......

Thanks Mac--Here is picture of 585BHE and
Trex. Mine holds 15gr more heavy ball
powder and still loads same length as
505 . Neat I think.Ed

I ordered my Professional Hunter action today. Right hand chrome moly. I told them to make it up with the standard bolt face because I don't know what it will be yet and we can always open it up later if need be. I have a .500 Jeffery so I am not really thinking about another .50 caliber. It would make a nice .450 Rigby though

Hey Dave, What are they quoting as delivery time? What price for a new order? THX 450 Rigby sounds Fun.

Devon told me that they hope to be shipping within 90 to 120 days. I am not in any particular hurry. As I indicated in my post, mine will probably become a .458 of some sort but I am not sure yet. I was thinking about a .450 Rigby but now I am leaning toward the .450 Dakota. I talked with a guy today at Dakota Rifles. He told me that they have at least a two year supply of .450 Dakota brass and that, in the future, Hornaday is going to be making brass for them. If I guy was going to build a .505 Gibbs, I am thinking that this would be the action to use. That's what my buddy is going to do.

Dave

It really great that they gotten funds and
are getting them finally made at foundry.
I have everything here in 700H waiting ED

Ed,

what bolt size do I need, and will MRC cut it for us and add a single stack magazine?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

ED:

You have peaked my interest in your 585 BHE. Any idea on brass cost? I have a 500 Jeffery being build on my RSM. I'd like to use the PH action for something more substantial like a 577 NE class of cartridge. Also any thoughts on using Cast bullets to keep shooting costs down for us poor working folks? Any additional info would be great. I've always loved the 58 cal BP stuff. Also please list the Specs for MRC so I can get mine setup right in the first place. Keep up the great work.

Brad

Rich-The PH's bolt will be big enough for my
700H.You will have to check with them on
doing a singlestack mag. But it shouldn't
be real hard having smith do it, as all you
do is make bigger version of WEA singlestack.

Brad, for guys doing my 585BHE, use of reamer
and 1st 15 cases free, as long as reamer gets
back to me in one piece. I will have two
reamers for guys to use.Once we get a few guys
going we will get a run of cases made, I hope
about 3 bucks each. Way brass prices have risen
hard to know how much. If I get ahead on a few
I sell a few extras.But in long run we need a big
run of brass made.

The 585 rim will fit their largest offered
.640" rim recess. And already will have
big bolt and ask for big barrel thread.They
have 3 rim recess sizes, and ask for biggest. Cast
bullets are ok. KDM makes heat treated ones
that take high velocity like jacketed, for
much less than jacketed.

Info on ON REAMERS and CASES, 1st asked 1st
served, if you have gun ready, and Rich is
number one. I would want a person ready to
chamber if they ask. That way we can get most
guys setup in shortest time, and I'll keep
reamers sharpened. If the list goes bonkers I
will round up more reamers.The 585BHE will
be headstamped and it will work in Enfield,
CZ, Ruger, ETC, anything you have setup for
505 will handle 585BHE. Ed

Ed:

The more I look the more I like the 585 idea. My buddy called MRC and spoke with Jeff he said they are going to go with a drop box magazine. Therefore, it will handle 3 505 rounds in the mag. I'd like to take a look at some load data if you have any availible. Please feel free to send it via PM if you don't feel comfortable posting it out in the open. It seems that 577 bullets are out there from various manufactures and I will most like run with cast bullets specifically to save on cost. Thanks for putting this together.

Brad

Glad you looking into 585BHE.
Just some preliminary testing, 750 gr,
180gr W760-- 2750 fps --
180gr W748 -- 2900..These are
in long barrel. Ed

HOLY #@%$! Talk about a dinosaur killer... I'm not sure I'd want to load it that HOT! But its good to know that I could stop a Union Pacific train if I needed to. Have you thought much about rifle weight? Building this on the PH action will give it some needed weight. What about barrel size, stock material? I would like to build this with fairly stock off the shelf parts such as an acurate innovations stock and a MRC or PACNOR barrel. Whats your current test rifle? I built a 9.3 Ashley wildcat on a 375 RUM case using a stock 700 SPS at about 7.5lbs (+5400 Ft Lbs recoil)this was a little too light and my forehead has several new scars from the scope bell.

I ran the numbers 750grn at 2900FPS = 14000 Ftlbs of muzzle energy (sounds like a 50 BMG! sporting round). in a 12.5lb rifle that about 213 ft-lbs of recoil energy WOW!!! May not be much for you hard cores but, for me thats a pretty big jump up from a 416rem or 500 Jeffery.

Thanks Brad

Use a good heavy stock- Or good enough
stock able to add wt. Pacnor makes
1.35" barrels. Also make 1.5" which
will fit and look nice with PH action
diameter. 1.35" is minimum I feel, get
gun weight to 13 lbs at least. Mine is about
18 lbs and mine has 32" barrel. You don't
have need that long a barrel, but 27"
should be minimum, to stll have weight and
get blast away from you. Ed

180 grains of powder! 750 grain bullets at 2900 fps! Eighteen pound guns. A .500 NE, .505 Gibbs, .500 Jeffery is not enough?

Whatever the hell you guys have been smoking, you should quit right now.

Dave

That's 750gr at 2750, 650gr at 2900.
You don't have to load it that fast, it'll cruize at lower pressures, at 2500
and brass last many firings. Simple case
setup, with no shoulder and neck to work,
easy resizing, easy chambering. It'll
have the oomph for Rich's long heavy slugs,
with powder all behind the bullet.And if
you do a 7 lb light weight gun, with super
strong load, the videos you take will have shooters flung 6 ft further than Trex....Ed

Hi Ed,

I'm stewing on a .585BHE even though those are spooky numbers!!

Any chance you'd have the reamer at PacNor's for a while? I've got a P14 (even though this is a MRC PH thread ) I'd send to P-N for a rebarrel. Won't happen until later this summer though.

Thanks

Mike

I will send reamer any where you want,
when you have gun ready. And if 2-3 guys
say they will have Pacnor do the work,
I will get a third one done just to have it
there. I believe in my cartridges and their
potential so I will do my part to make it
as easy as possible to get guns built in
585BHE, 700H, 700HE...Ed

I gotta say kudos on your offer, Ed. Last question I had was where to obtain reloading dies.

Got brass, bullets, and barrel covered

I will have the specs for dies at CH4D
in a little while, after a bit more testing
of case expansion in chambers made with
the reamers. That way they
will be perfect match.I thought about about it
and I will have 3 reamers done now, and
that way one can go to shops, who guys
probably will have do more than one..Ed