quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
it seems to me that it is an attempt (deliberately or otherwise, by the rancher or the hunter) to try and establish some legitimacy to his "hunt" by saying, "i've got myself a 185 b&c buck oon my last hunt!" the truth is that he didn't HUNT it, and b&c won't touch it. what he did was no different than going to a market in hong kong and picking out a chicken for dinner. would that be hunting?

Ok.........here's an idea..........Don't preach about high fenced hunting not being legit. I say this because YOU HAVE NEVER DONE IT!! There are a few high fenced places that are truly unfair and do not practice fair chase. It is unfortunate, but it's reality. However, these types of high fenced operations only account for about 5% of high fenced hunting ranches. Think about that!! I have been to several high fenced places where the Whitetail would be harder to hunt there than on some of the free range places I've hunted on. See........I can talk about high fenced places because I actually have some credibility on the subject. I have actually set foot on around a dozen high fenced hunting properties ranging from 200 acres to 7,000 acres. Only one of these dozen or so properties are what I consider "unfair" because they had cleared all the underbrush and just left the Oak trees, so......there wasn't much cover for the game.

While we're at it, here's a few more facts from my experience. It seems KS is hell bent on convicing everybody that all the deer in Texas have ear tags. Out of all the high fenced properties I've been on, NONE OF THEM HAD ANY DEER WITH EAR TAGS!! Typically, ear tags are only used for breeding stock in pens, or to mark deer that were purchased and released into the wild herd to improve genetics to ensure they aren't shot until they've had plenty of time to breed.

In regard to your inquiry about the B&C club not accepting deer hunted on high fenced property: I believe it really has more to do with that 5% that I mentioned earlier. B&C has no way of separating deer that were killed in 20 acre pens from deer that were killed on 5,000 acre ranches covered in brush. So.......to prevent any misunderstandings, they just say "no" to all deer taken behind high fence. It's no big deal to me because, as I already said earlier, I don't really give a damn about any record books. One other reason I believe B&C doesn't accept high fenced deer is because hunting on a well managed high fenced ranch does give you a better chance at a big buck, but it's not because they are tame or dumb or drugged or have ear tags. It's because deer on high fenced ranches are managed better and are allowed to get old. Whereas, on a low fenced property, there is always the chance of having an asshole neighbor that shoots that 125" 2 year old and doesn't allow him to get old, therefore making it harder to come by a mature deer.

Now before somebody says to me "You said low fenced deer don't leave the property, blah, blah, blah, etc....." I didn't say they NEVER leave the property. Those that were born near the property line will almost definitely cross the fence onto the neighbor's place, which brings us back to the asshole neighbor senario.

So, whether some of you want to believe it or not, here is the truth........in Texas, at least.......because I can't speak for high fenced ranches in other states. Roughly 90-95% of the high fenced ranches in Texas put up high fenced to do one or more of the following:

1. To keep asshole neighbors from shooting the young bucks.

2. To keep large numbers of does from "flocking" to the property during hard times. This usually happens when said property has superior habitat and food compared to the property around it. Therefore, during a hard time, deer from the area will all concentrate on the property, destroying the habitat and essentially hurting themselves.

3. To contain exotic game.

4. To contain deer that were purchased to improve the herd's gene pool.

So........to all of you who like to knock high fenced hunting ranches, but have never actually set foot on one............this is for you.

You're deer ain't real.
Take away 100in for feeding him.
You're deer sucks.
You're deer ain't B & C.
You don't enjoy the outdoors.
You're not a real hunter.
You're a rich a-hole.
You're compensating.
You're not a real man.
You don't respect the deer.
You don't respect those that came before you.
blah blah blah

Did I miss anything?

The knife cuts both ways. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, but just becasue you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
[ because I actually have some credibility on the subject.

When did daddy buy that for you?
keep sticking that chin out.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
[ because I actually have some credibility on the subject.

When did daddy buy that for you?
keep sticking that chin out.

What are you suggesting, that I'm lying? You can believe whatever the hell you want. I'm just trying to shed some light on the subject, becuase it's still burried under all of KS's and tasunkawitko's bull shit. Excuse me for trying to be sensible. Quick question.........when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch? I'll bet a dollar that you have never been to one. That means you have no credibility. Did the definition of "credibility" change since I've been in high school? Last time I checked, it meant that you have experience on a particular subject. This is pretty black and white. I have credibility on the subject.........you don't. Nuff said.

quote:

when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch?

what exactly is it that you have learned that we are missing by NOT having hunted on a deer farm or high fence ranch?
please, im not being snide. what happened there that taught you so much about deer hunting?

and, excuse me ??????
35 deer? i have no idea what the legal limit is in TX but is it that high?

quote:

Every one of them gets gutted, skinned, and nearly all of them are given to people who look forward every year to getting a supply of meat they otherwise couldn't afford. There are a lot of people on fixed incomes who love venison. My cleaning facility has electric winches and saws so it takes my an average of ten minutes from start to finish. The coyotes and hogs eat good at the gutpile. That is unless they get caught. Wasting game is taken very seriouly in Texas and I do believe it can be a felony.

good to hear, and i commend you (and texas) for that.

quote:

Ok.........here's an idea..........Don't preach about high fenced hunting not being legit. I say this because YOU HAVE NEVER DONE IT!!

ES - here's an idea - get off the obsession with the high fence (it is REALLY an estrogenic hot button for you) and look beyond it to the actual discussion. i cannot count the times you have started screaming about high fences when they are not even part of what is being discussed at the moment.

the damn shame is that THIS thread is going to be the highest response thread for oct, and then the whining about the la deer will be second.

quote:

Excuse me for trying to be sensible.

when you start posting something sensible, we'll start excusing you.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
..- her's an idea - get off the obsession with the high fence (it is REALLY an estrogenic hot button for you) and look beyond it to the actual discussion.

Fine, the you and KS won't be mentioning them again?

While we are at it, let's drop the "class" warfare/envy. Boys, I grew up a sharecroppers son and everything I have now I have earned by WORKING.. I don't wear a rolex, drive an suv, etc etc etc....

But I will feed game as I see fit.

If you don't like that, fine, state it, then get around it

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the damn shame is that THIS thread is going to be the highest response thread for oct, and then the whining about the la deer will be second.

i thought you gave up, jeffe? or did someone put a gun to your head and force you to take another look (not to mention respond) to this shameful travesty of a thread?

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the damn shame is that THIS thread is going to be the highest response thread for oct, and then the whining about the la deer will be second.

i thought you gave up, jeffe? or did someone put a gun to your head and force you to take another look (not to mention respond) to this shameful travesty of a thread?

Does it matter? Last time I checked, I pay for my own bandwidth and Saeed is the owner of the site.

I took a look at EIGHT PAGES of petty personal insults and decided it was worth while...

Guess not, as some folks have an intensely emotional response to anything posted on this thread.

quote:

some folks have an intensely emotional response to anything posted on this thread.

i agree. poor ol' eland slayer is quickly running out of midol and snickers....

quote:

when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch?

what exactly is it that you have learned that we are missing by NOT having hunted on a deer farm or high fence ranch?
please, im not being snide. what happened there that taught you so much about deer hunting?

quote:

Fine, the you and KS won't be mentioning them again?

are you trying to supress rational debate? i've rarely mentioned the high fences themselves, only once or twice. as has beens tated time and again, the high fence is only one small part of the overal picture that we're trying to discuss here. the fact that E.S. (and apparently you?) go completely berserk on the fence while ignoring every other aspect is very puzzling.

i'm trying to show that 500grains is wrong about you, but you're not making it very easy

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Fine, the you and KS won't be mentioning them again?

are you trying to supress rational debate? i've rarely mentioned the high fences themselves, only once or twice. as has beens tated time and again, the high fence is only one small part of the overal picture that we're trying to discuss here. the fact that E.S. (and apparently you?) go completely berserk on the fence while ignoring every other aspect is very puzzling.

i'm trying to show that 500grains is wrong about you, but you're not making it very easy

I have a feeling that someone (ES) wants to focus on that aspect because the only decent "deer" he has taken in his short life if from one of those farms.
were he to condem that aspect of the discussion he would have to admitt his prowess as a skilled hunter is in equal relation to daddies wallet.

quote:

and, excuse me ??????
35 deer? i have no idea what the legal limit is in TX but is it that high?

The normal limit is five deer to include no more than three bucks. But Texas also has a managed lands program. A landowner can do certain things for the benefit of wildlife and in turn is given permits to control the numbers of deer on the property. They also get an extended season which this year goes from I believe September 29 until February 29. So those of us on managed lands property get to hunt for five months. A census count is taken and then MLD tags are issued according to the amount of deer on the property. All deer shot on the property must be tagged only with the MLD tag. It is illegal to tag a deer with one off your license. If you recieve 100 tags all the tags can be used by one person. We go by the golden rule here as the ones with the gold get to rule.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

and, excuse me ??????
35 deer? i have no idea what the legal limit is in TX but is it that high?

The normal limit is five deer to include no more than three bucks. But Texas also has a managed lands program. A landowner can do certain things for the benefit of wildlife and in turn is given permits to control the numbers of deer on the property. They also get an extended season which this year goes from I believe September 29 until February 29. So those of us on managed lands property get to hunt for five months. A census count is taken and then MLD tags are issued according to the amount of deer on the property. All deer shot on the property must be tagged only with the MLD tag. It is illegal to tag a deer with one off your license. If you recieve 100 tags all the tags can be used by one person. We go by the golden rule here as the ones with the gold get to rule.

so you cna fence them in, complain there are to many and kill the exess?
you guys have bought the DNR. thats so blatantly wrong its almost comical.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch?

what exactly is it that you have learned that we are missing by NOT having hunted on a deer farm or high fence ranch?
please, im not being snide. what happened there that taught you so much about deer hunting?

I learned that the high fence has nothing to do with the hunt. No respectable rancher would allow anyone to use the fence in their advantage to kill a deer, or any other animal. I learned that deer on high fenced ranches are often times harder to hunt than deer on low fenced ranches. I learned that the majority of the people who own these ranches are VERY good people who are not looking to make any kind of profit. They simply love the animals they take care of and they want to manage them best in the way they see fit. Most high fenced ranches in Texas are not commercial ranches, but family ranches. Your perception of high fenced ranches as being commercial slaughter facilities is very misinformed and unfair to the people who run honest hunting ranches. You make it sound like these landowners are satan worshiping, deer hating "wildlife pimps" that are trying to make all this money from public resources. That is simply not the case. I have never met a Texas rancher that was anything like this. Every one I've met (and I've met hundreds) are honest, good people that love hunting, family, the outdoors, and God. For you to say otherwise is unbelievably disrespectful.

how so?
what have you learned about deer behavior?
how do you know what hard is in relation to the high fence places unless you have hunted and killed a mature free range buck?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Fine, the you and KS won't be mentioning them again?

are you trying to supress rational debate? i've rarely mentioned the high fences themselves, only once or twice. as has beens tated time and again, the high fence is only one small part of the overal picture that we're trying to discuss here. the fact that E.S. (and apparently you?) go completely berserk on the fence while ignoring every other aspect is very puzzling.

i'm trying to show that 500grains is wrong about you, but you're not making it very easy

I have a feeling that someone (ES) wants to focus on that aspect because the only decent "deer" he has taken in his short life if from one of those farms.
were he to condem that aspect of the discussion he would have to admitt his prowess as a skilled hunter is in equal relation to daddies wallet.

I said this earlier, but I will say it again. I have never killed a Whitetail Deer on a high fenced property. I would, in a heartbeat, if I had the chance. Truth is, I'm not willing to spend that much money to only hunt for a few days and kill a nice buck. I enjoy spending months scouting for a particular buck, and then spending the season trying to outsmart him. That is why we usually have a lease to hunt on, but high fenced leases are few and far between and they are expensive. Actually, all the leases in Texas are expensive now. That is why we are trying to buy a place ASAP so that we can hunt on our own land.

The animals I have hunted on high fenced ranches are: Axis, Blackbuck, Eland, Red Deer, and Hogs. I also killed an American Bison on a high fenced ranch for meat, but I do not consider it much of a hunt.

quote:

so you cna fence them in, complain there are to many and kill the exess?
you guys have bought the DNR. thats so blatantly wrong its almost comical.

Kinda sorta. You don't have to be high fenced. What's wrong with owning TP&W. The future of hunting in Texas is very safe being in the hands of the landowners.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

..when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch?
That means you have no credibility. This is pretty black and white. I have credibility on the subject.........you don't. Nuff said.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
I learned that deer on high fenced ranches are often times harder to hunt than deer on low fenced ranches.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
I have never killed a Whitetail Deer on a high fenced property.

UH, pssssssssp...
your bullshit is showing.



for FMC,
I have to include a quote as well, from The Old Man and the Boy : "...if there's one thing I despise it's a killer, some blood-crazy idiot that just goes around bam-bamming at everything he sees. A man who takes pleasure in death just for death's sake is rotten somewhere inside, and you'll find him doing things later in life that'll prove it."

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
how so?
what have you learned about deer behavior?
how do you know what hard is in relation to the high fence places unless you have hunted and killed a mature free range buck?

You talk as if you know me personally. Read my last post. I HAVE NEVER KILLED A WHITETAIL DEER ON A HIGH FENCED PROPERTY. I have killed several mature bucks (all free-range) over the past 5 years.

I'd be willing to bet that I do just as much hunting for Whitetails each year as you do, possibly more. Whitetails are my passion. To kill my biggest buck yet (5.5 year old 130 class 8-point), I hunted the same area for a total of 20-25 days between the beginning of November until New Years Day when I shot him just before dark. I have more Whitetail hunting experience than most 40 year old men. I have stories of deer behavior that I don't even tell some people because I know they wouldn't believe me. I rattled in 33 bucks last year. I've had mature bucks bed down less than 10 yards from me for over an hour. I hunt with bow, rifle, and I just started with pistol. I use Scentlok and take all kinds of other precausions, but that's another debate.

quote:

I hunted the same area for a total of 20-25 days between the beginning of November until New Years Day

i bet daddy was happy with the GPA from old SAm Huston school of...
Beuler?
Beuler?
Ferris Beuler?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

..when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch?
That means you have no credibility. This is pretty black and white. I have credibility on the subject.........you don't. Nuff said.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
I learned that deer on high fenced ranches are often times harder to hunt than deer on low fenced ranches.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
I have never killed a Whitetail Deer on a high fenced property.

UH, pssssssssp...
your bullshit is showing.

I never said that I've never hunted Whitetails on high fenced property. I said I've never KILLED a Whitetail Deer on a high fenced property. I have bowhunted Whitetails on one high fenced ranch.........unsuccessfully. However, I have spent a lot of time in the field observing Whitetails on several other high fenced ranches. I worked on a 7,000 acre high fenced ranch 2 years ago for the summer. I lived there and spent every day, from daylight till dark, in the field with both Whitetails and exotics. So........no, my "bullshit" isn't showing, because I don't have any to show. Everything I have said is true. Whether you believe it or not is your problem.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

I hunted the same area for a total of 20-25 days between the beginning of November until New Years Day

i bet daddy was happy with the GPA from old SAm Huston school of...
Beuler?
Beuler?
Ferris Beuler?

Actually, I killed that deer on New Years Day of 2003, when I was a Freshman in high school. I didn't have to skip any class. I hunted every weekend during the season, plus we got 9 days off for Thanksgiving (I hunted all 9) and we got 3 weeks off for Christmas (I hunted all but 9 or 10 days). Do the math: 3 weekends before Thanksgiving = 6 days...........9 days during Thanksgiving........another 12 +/- days during Christmas break. 6 + 9 + 12 = 27 days. FYI, I graduated high school with a GPA just under 3.5.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by jb:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
[ because I actually have some credibility on the subject.

When did daddy buy that for you?
keep sticking that chin out.

What are you suggesting, that I'm lying? You can believe whatever the hell you want. I'm just trying to shed some light on the subject, becuase it's still burried under all of KS's and tasunkawitko's bull shit. Excuse me for trying to be sensible. Quick question.........when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch? I'll bet a dollar that you have never been to one. That means you have no credibility. Did the definition of "credibility" change since I've been in high school? Last time I checked, it meant that you have experience on a particular subject. This is pretty black and white. I have credibility on the subject.........you don't. Nuff said.

cred·i·bil·i·ty (krd-bl-t)
n.
1. The quality, capability, or power to elicit belief: "America's credibility must not be squandered, especially by its leaders" Henry A. Kissinger.
2. A capacity for belief: a story that strained our credibility.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

If this case was going to trial,Im pretty sure youd be removed from the jury pool as being biased.No credibility.
And no I havent been to a high fence ranch.
Have you ever been hunting on anything other than private property?

Reminds me of the city boy I used to work with, the great white hunter,was always telling how easy deer were to get at granmas place,the only place he ever hunted.Turned out granma owned several acres in the minnesota river valley natl wildlife refuge.They set up police snipers there at night over bait to try and get the numbers of deer down there are so many.He thought he was just a natural hunter,it was so easy for him.Next time it flooded,the state condemned the property as flood plain.He doesnt get to hunt there anymore.Guess what?Hasnt gotten a deer since.Not nearly as easy now.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by jb:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
[ because I actually have some credibility on the subject.

When did daddy buy that for you?
keep sticking that chin out.

What are you suggesting, that I'm lying? You can believe whatever the hell you want. I'm just trying to shed some light on the subject, becuase it's still burried under all of KS's and tasunkawitko's bull shit. Excuse me for trying to be sensible. Quick question.........when have you ever been to a Texas high fenced ranch? I'll bet a dollar that you have never been to one. That means you have no credibility. Did the definition of "credibility" change since I've been in high school? Last time I checked, it meant that you have experience on a particular subject. This is pretty black and white. I have credibility on the subject.........you don't. Nuff said.

cred·i·bil·i·ty (krd-bl-t)
n.
1. The quality, capability, or power to elicit belief: "America's credibility must not be squandered, especially by its leaders" Henry A. Kissinger.
2. A capacity for belief: a story that strained our credibility.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

If this case was going to trial,Im pretty sure youd be removed from the jury pool as being biased.No credibility.
And no I havent been to a high fence ranch.
Have you ever been hunting on anything other than private property?

Reminds me of the city boy I used to work with, the great white hunter,was always telling how easy deer were to get at granmas place,the only place he ever hunted.Turned out granma owned several acres in the minnesota river valley natl wildlife refuge.They set up police snipers there at night over bait to try and get the numbers of deer down there are so many.He thought he was just a natural hunter,it was so easy for him.Next time it flooded,the state condemned the property as flood plain.He doesnt get to hunt there anymore.Guess what?Hasnt gotten a deer since.Not nearly as easy now.

Ok.......so you can give the exact definition of "cred·i·bil·i·ty". Does that make you happy? Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have you have experience on a subject before you can be considered "credible" on that subject?

Anywho.........to answer your question, no, I've never hunted deer on anything but private property. I hunted ducks one time in Louisiana on public marsh land, but that really has nothing to do with this.

In Texas, you don't really have much choice but to hunt on private land. I go to school in Huntsville, TX and the Sam Houston National Forest is just a couple miles down the road. It's 161,508 acres and I would rather not hunt at all then try to hunt there. Hunting public land in this part of Texas can literally be a potentially life threatening experience........not to mention the hunting just sucks.

Why do I remind you of the city boy who only hunted on his grandmas property? I've hunted on a whole lot more than one property. I've hunted places on both ends of the spectrum. Places where you would only see 1 or 2 deer a year........to places where you would see between 100-200 deer per day. And everything in between.

E-FRIGGIN-NUFF!

Take it outside.

quote:

The future of hunting in Texas is very safe being in the hands of the landowners.

based on the attitudes i've seen on this debate, i'd be very worried. you guys don't have a damn clue about anything and will ruin the sport.

you're not a bunch of kings. you don't own the game.

quote:

Originally posted by nkonka:
E-FRIGGIN-NUFF!

Take it outside.

oh how i wish sometimes.

Dude, "the old man and the boy." Funny shit.

Although I am concerned......Are you a member of NMBLA? Were you once an alter boy? Did an old man once touch you as he was 'splaining the traditions of hunting and being in the woods.

You're right, we won't be crossing paths: I like pussy. And me and my suuuuper rich friends own land, we don't need hunting clubs (which I still don't know what they are). What a crock of shit this thread is.........but it sure is fun stirring the pot.

P.S. Try shooting a deer out of a helicopter with a 300 Win- now that is a challenge.

For what its worth to the more intelligent members of this thread, the original deer in question was shot on a very large ranch near Encinal, Texas..He is a native deer as not outside blood has been introduced on that ranch, and his genes are 100% wild native.

Based on that information and a I am familiar with that area as I have bought cattle there in the past, and the country has a number of very large ranches, I believe this was a fair chase hunt, if you consider stand shooting a fair chase. If you do not then it is not fair chase, but then neither is Lion, Leopard, hog, deer, Bear, and Antelope as those are a few animals that are hunted from stands and bait, not counting alfalfa, peanut and oat fields where many animals are shot every year all over the nation. this attitude also dictates all bow hunters as criminally insane.

To depict many things as non fair chase is getting to the point of shooting ones self in the foot and all hunters will end up paying the extreme price of feeding the antis, over the ignorance of a few....

Can't we all just get along. All together now...group hug.

Perry

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to hold it in my arms
And keep it company
I'd like to build the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees
And snow white turtle doves



I'd like to see the world for once
All standing hand in hand,
And hear them echo through the hills
For peace throughout the land.
That's the song that I hear
Let the world sing today
A song of peace that echos on
And never goes away

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Can't we all just get along. All together now...group hug.

Perry

Oh c'mon, some of us are just having fun with this. I can't speak for other people's panties though, all wadded up in a knot.......................

Tasun's tech sarcasm is much better than mine.

Its because I dont have access to a high fenced pc.

Perry

Amen to that!