quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

as they claim? are you on something?

Damn right I'm on something. With more land and places to hunt than time permits I am high on life.

The state can claim any damn thing it wants to but that don't make it so. As far as I am concerned for all intents and purposes the property owner owns the wildlife. I can certainly figure up a bill for room and board of "their" animals "they" house on my property.

I don't have a dog in this fight but your comments seem incredibly arrogant to me. By your logic then do insects and birds flying in your air space belong to you too? If a deer or coyote manages to burrow under you fence and leave your property does it still belong to you enabling you to chase it down to retrieve it or does ownership instantly transfer to your next-door neighbor? Does this mean I own the squirrels that meander through my front yard?

slug - you may not have a dog in this, but you've hit exactly on one of KS's key points.

what about liability? if HIS deer eat a farmer's field or if HIS coyotes kill a rancher's calf, is he liable for the actions of HIS wildlife?

Mac
I stand corrected in my statement, we only have a million acres to publicly hunt.

Perry

quote:

the facts are you cannot walk in most of it, and of course that is where the deer are. The thorns will hang on every part of your clothing to the point that all you do is delicately pick yourself loose, only to be hung up again before you out, your hands will look like a pride of kittens have worked them over and your face will be a nothing but North and South cuts, your wife will throw away your favorite cap and hunting shirt.

If you wound a deer then you must go into hell to retrieve him and I have done that many times, its not fun and games.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

the facts are you cannot walk in most of it, and of course that is where the deer are. The thorns will hang on every part of your clothing to the point that all you do is delicately pick yourself loose, only to be hung up again before you out, your hands will look like a pride of kittens have worked them over and your face will be a nothing but North and South cuts, your wife will throw away your favorite cap and hunting shirt.

If you wound a deer then you must go into hell to retrieve him and I have done that many times, its not fun and games.

Since you are from Upstate SC, do you ever travel to hunt in the coastal plains? Because what Ray Atkinson's description above is exactly like what a lot of the coastal plains is. Hence, the popular use of corn and dogs in the coastal plains. So thick in a lot of places, you can't see your piss rolling off a gator's head a couple feet away. Last deer meat I got, I shot her in an acre field, she ran into a nearby greenbrier, blackberry, and plum thicket. She died only 25 feet into it but it was a lot of work just to drag her out...

This is so funny, each person has their own way of doing things and everybody elses is wrong or not the way we do thing here. I wouldn't live in Montana, to near NorDakota and I sure wouldn't live in the Carolina's, hurricanes ya know.
Thats why I live in Idaho, in the same state as the great Senator Larry Craig,lol.

Well since everyone is trying to see how far they can suck their panties up their ass over this, here's the link to the ranch where the buck was killed, draw your own conclusions.

http://lasraicesranch.com/

If I am not mistaken, that buck has been on that ranch for several years and has been featured in their ads.

My guess is that the buck was beginning to decline in health or antler size and they decided to shoot him.

From the link:

"It's been a crazy last few days. I've gotten all kinds of emails and phone calls. Thanks to everyone who has sent their congratulations. I'm sorry if I am slow to respond, but I will.

I killed the deer Monday evening (October 2nd). I had been watching him for about a week hoping he would rub out. I saw him 3 times before I shot him during our legal MLD season, but my nerves couldn't take it anymore. I was just too afraid that he would break something during the entire process of "rubbing out".

I scored him that night at 280 1/8 and Los Cazadores scored him the next day at 273 3/8... which really isn't that much of a difference with 33-35 scoreable points. There is a huge margin of error. If you are off by 1/8 of an inch for every measurement, that is just about the difference. Personally, I think he will end up somewhere in the mid 270's when he is stripped of velvet and dry.

This deer was just the perfect storm. He had a huge rainfall year in 2004-5 when he was a 4 year old and made a monster jump over 200. We then had a mediocre year the next year but he put on some frame. Last year was just ugly. We had 11 inches of rainfall. You can look for yourself on the survey photos in the photo section from 2006-2007. He was still a big deer, but as a 6 year old... he scored less than as a 4 year old. I think he was below 195.

Then 2007 happened... 56 inches of rain and counting.

On a deer like this, you just have to get lucky. To our credit, we let him walk around until he was old enough and supplied him with supplimental protein. But in the end, there is still a huge element of luck."


Sure there is.............

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:

Sure there is.............

And just what the hell is that supposed to mean? If you honestly think you can just walk onto a 4,000 acre property covered in inpenetratable brush and find a deer, you are out of your damn mind. Seriously.......your head must be on crooked. I've noticed that everybody on here that knocks Texas hunting isn't from Texas. I'm sure you guys up in "New England" know how to do it much better than us Texans.

Guys, I am a native Texan and have witnessed first hand how deer hunting has changed over the almost 40 years that I have been doing it.

Eland Slayer, look at that post instead of quoting the last line in the mans response, they had been watching that buck for at least 3 years, and would see it every time they did an arial survey.

It don't matter if it was 40 acres or 400,000, the folks knew just exactly where that buck was going to be at any given time, and knew when they were going to take him out.

Hunting in Texas is different, and unless they grew up with the system, outsiders will just not understand and in most cases agree with it.

Raising all kinds of hell does not change one fact, and that is most folks Do Not consider what we do in Texas as real hunting, and you me and all the rest of the licensed hunters in Texas are not going to change that opinion. JMO.

and now for the rest of the story

that buck has been walking around for years, contributing his genes to the population, and improving the antler mass.

then again, I don't hunt whitetail in texas as a passion, but here it can be a religion.


Oh, btw for all the "holier than thous" out there..

Texas has some interesting stats.

More hunters than any other state, in state hunters

the LOWEST incidence, percentage, of hunting related accidential shootings.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Guys, I am a native Texan and have witnessed first hand how deer hunting has changed over the almost 40 years that I have been doing it.


Hunting in Texas is different, and unless they grew up with the system, outsiders will just not understand and in most cases agree with it.

Raising all kinds of hell does not change one fact, and that is most folks Do Not consider what we do in Texas as real hunting, and you me and all the rest of the licensed hunters in Texas are not going to change that opinion. JMO.

I sure wish hunters, especially TX hunters, would quit using the broad brush in describing "how we hunt". So many hunters, using so many different techniques, all exist in TX. The super trophy stuff gets the writeups, but many great deer are hunted, and taken, in TX by so many means other than what many posters are claiming "all Texans do".

"There is no greater ignorance than contempt prior to investigation"

Mulerider wrote:

quote:

...many great deer are hunted, and taken, in TX by so many means other than what many posters are claiming "all Texans do".

AMEN!!!

Mulerider-

To continue regarding what you said, my best scoring buck was rattled up. My most memorable buck was taken after a long day hunting in a drizzle. I was soaked to the core, muddy and tired. But when I muscled up a dry wash (wasn't very dry at the time!) and took the SPIKE from 130 yards with a Remington XP-100 in 7BR, it brought to fruition a day I'll always remember.

No feeders were involved. No stands were on the property. And this was in the heart of the Lone Star state.

I, too, despise those generalizations that a few posters so rabidly vomit.But I guess we have to consider the sources...

As long as it's legal, I would never question how someone else hunts. I just wish some folks would bother to get their "facts" straight before regurgitating their babble all over the 'net.

I still think we need a texas forum here.we even have a cat forum,why not one from texas,although the game mangement forum seems to be mostly texas oriented.I asked saeed last year about a texas forum,but the idea was denied as not different enough to need its own.

This young man was born into that family and is making the most of it. Of course all the ney sayers here would abandon it all for something else right...

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
This young man was born into that family and is making the most of it. Of course all the ney sayers here would abandon it all for something else right...

Perry

That's a different argument entirely...... In fact it's the argument that is being made by KSTEPHENS and tasunkawitko.



Eland Slayer,

Come on, did you read the notes by the Ranch owner? They watched him so closely they might as well have put a Lojack up that buck's ass!

how much extra do they charge you if your bullet damages the radio collar?

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:

Sure there is.............

And just what the hell is that supposed to mean? If you honestly think you can just walk onto a 4,000 acre property covered in inpenetratable brush and find a deer, you are out of your damn mind. Seriously.......your head must be on crooked. I've noticed that everybody on here that knocks Texas hunting isn't from Texas. I'm sure you guys up in "New England" know how to do it much better than us Texans.

Elandslayer,

if you go to the website linked above, you will read that they knew exactly where this deer was, and that they saw him 3 times in the days before this deer what shot.
The shooter "executed" this deer because he was worried that the deer would damage his antlers.
He was not worried that he would not find the deer, or that another hunter would shoot it.

The deer is very impressive, but it was not hunted. It was reared, fed protein supplements and put down like livestock.

Irish
You are wrong about that. This deer lived on a 4000 acre ranch and had access to protien feed through out his life. This young man knew where this animal lived and killed him when he had the opportunity. Form a time line. He saw this deer 3 times before he could kill it because the season was not open. You mention that he did not kill this buck to keep others from getting it...how many people trophy hunt on this ranch and how many of them were looking for this buck. YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
You are making judgements about something you know nothing about. We have had 60 inches of rain in South Texas this year, deer are not coming to corn feeders. From the pictures this buck is out in the wild not under a blind or in a pen. I doubt they rattled a feed bucket and he ran in.

Perry

Perry, your making some pretty broad statements there.

I would be willing to bet that the owners of that operation were not going to let anyone other than a family member shoot that buck, for less than probably $50,000.00.

Look around and see what places like that get on 180 to 200 class bucks, 20 to 30 K.

Defending the fact that not everything concerning deer hunting in Texas involves feeders/stands and high fences is one thing.

Making statements about the situation from hearsay, when the person that killed the animal has given a full description on their website of what transpired, is not condusive to anything.

Over my hunting career, I have killed far more animals in Texas by spot and stalk, and still hunting, than I have from a stand watching a feeder.

Point of fact however, is that more deer in Texas are killed from a stand watching a feeder than by any other method.

Texans know that any anybody else that has ever hunted here knows it.

Why try to spread a layer of Bull Shit over the facts?

It is just like a question that came up on another forum, that brought the whole arguement a full circle.

The question concerned hunting black bear from a stand watching a bait.

Now this came up on one of the Texas based forums.

Something like 75 or 80% of the folks that responded, thought that hunting a bear that way was horrible and they would never want to do that.

Yet these same people, have no trouble what some ever about climbing in a stand and target shooting hite tails.

Now does someone want to take the time and explain what the hell the difference is, other than Texans did not grow up hunting black bears.

I have had the good fortune to hunt in a few other states and a couple of Canadian Provinces, I can attest to the way Non Texans think about the way things are done down here.

On one of the hunts in Canada, I was in a camp with a couple of guys that were from the Virginia - North Carolina area.

We got to discussing hunting methods and styles, and they had some pre-conceived ideas about hunting in Texas, but in the discussion, they got to describing the thrill and exiliration they got from standing on a road in a swamp, holding shotguns loaded with buckshot, waiting for dogs to drive the deer to them.

Now how many Texans would thing that was sporting????

Texans are not going to change anyone's mind who is not from here, that not all hunting is done the way it is perceived to be.

The funny part is, if people will take the time to check into the records from TP&W, license sales to Non-Residents are increasing every year, so I guess that means that not everyone finds something wrong with the way things are done. JMO.

crazy
Not bullshitting anyone. But to say without facts that this deer was "put down" is non sense. And the family in question has numerous memebers that could have gone after that deer so yes he was killing it before someone else could have gotten it.

Perry

I hunted in South Texas all my life up until it got too expensive (for me) about 10 years ago. We hunt in West Texas now between Del Rio and Sonora. I'd like to see anybody hunt South Texas without elevated stands. You might if you're 10 foot tall.We used to hunt out of 8 foot tripods sometimes when the weather allowed. The vegatation is so thick in most places you literally cannot get through it. Not only that but everything in South Texas either has thorns or bites you. If you could manage to work your way through the thick brush you would scare off every deer in the area with all the racket you'd make and most likely be bitten by a 6 ft. rattler. As far as feeding (either broadcasting of stationary feeders) you almost have to because the deer have so much to eat in the thick vegatation they won't even come out. They very seldom stop if they cross a road or small clearing. I've hunted without feeding and it makes for some very long days. I've hunted many full days without seeing a deer. If you can work your way back ino the brush you'll find a lot of deer tracks. There's plenty of deer but they stay put in the thick brush.

If you ever want to know how the Texas deer are doing just check here.. or Google Texas deer breeder:

http://www.texasdeerassociation.com/auction.asp

I grew up in Havre, Montana it is not what is used to be, the influx of people from out of state has really started to screw things up. Montana Fish and Game issued way to many Antelope tags in the 80s and the herds still suffer. hunting access in the west is going to be an issue soon enough, and the problems will move east.

Every state has its ups and downs.. Texas is decidedly different than Montana, but I just spent 3 beautiful days squirrel hunting and am looking forward to another great Texas duck season, all on public land in Texas.

Perry, are you connected with this ranch or have you hunted it?

While the family may have many members, something tells me that this deer was supposed to go to this particular person.

You may be more knowledgable about this than me, but from my experience, an older and larger buck does not travle as much as younger animals.

My bet is that buck, on that ranch under the conditions he lived under, probaby had a home range of less than 200 acres.

To say the deer was "Put Down" while sounding bad, is just exactly what happens, anytime anyone pulls the trigger or releases the arrow on the animal they have chosen to shoot.

Was the animal slaughtered like a cow at a butcher shop, no.

Was there any possibility of a killing shot not being made or that this animal would crawl off wounded and die and not be found, NO.

To try and convince people otherwise is BS.

Does ALL hunting in Texas work this way, No.

Does it happen Yes.

Do you, me, or anyone else know anything more about this story than what is stated in the article by the guy that shot the animal, NO, we don't.

We are all guessing, with those that have a low opinion of the way hunting is done in Texas making their remarks and the Texans on here using "State Pride" to justify what we do.

It is still an impressive animal, regardless of how, when, and where it was killed.

Every S.O.B., on Every forumn is going to have their reasons as to why something is wrong with the situation, but I would be willing to bet that there isn't a single person on this or any other forum that would not give their left nut to have been the person that pulled the trigger on that buck. JAO.

Crazy
I do not hunt this place but do know the family and that buck was anyone's quary. Marko obviously took the initiatave.
My objection with others posts are the fact that no facts are known and yet criticism is given. In Texas you stand hunt most of the time, this buck was killed from a stand. But to incinuate that this deer is like a pen raised hog is preposterous.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
You may be more knowledgable about this than me, but from my experience, an older and larger buck does not travle as much as younger animals.

My bet is that buck, on that ranch under the conditions he lived under, probaby had a home range of less than 200 acres.

JAO.

Even in open range a whitetail deer does not migrate, like Muledeer do! A whitetail deer lives and dies withing one mile of the place where he was born, unless someone moves him!

The spot where he was dropped, being the center of a circle, with to outer edge of the circle one mile from the center, gives him about a one, and one half section of life long habitat. He seldom uses it all, only the best parts of it, and like you say, in old age, he picks about half that, that supplies him with everything he needs, and rarely extends past the edges of a 1 mile diamether circle!

For diminstration purposes, think four sections of land placed in a square, with the center being where a corner of each section meet in the middle. Now with a cumpose draw circle that is 1 mile from that center, or two miles across will be his life time largest range. Do the same thing with the circle being only 1/2 mile from center, giveing him a diameter of only one mile after he reaches 5 yrs old, and over. A section that is perfectly square is 640 acres or 1 square mile, so four of these squares would be four square miles, but he doesn't use all the area, only a two mile wide circle, around the spot where he was born. or about one, and one half section, or about 960 acres when young, and searching for his own range, which devides in about half after five yrs old, for very mature buck, about 480 acres max. He may only use some of that, depending on what is available within that area.

As long as food, and water is available the does use even less habitat, while the buck's range will usually incompus part of three or four doe ranges, which he patrols looking for does in estrus, leaving his scrapes, and overhang scent twiggs, to attract the does in that range!

It is amazing how little good habitat is needed to keep whitetail deer well supplied with water, cover, and food supply, and of course sex!

Mac:

Not to argue with you point, but your math is off. The one mile in radius circle would give the deer approx. pi x 1 or 3.14 sq miles (sections) to live on. The older buck example would not give him 1/2 of that but 1/4 or roughly .78 sections. If you consider that the area used is certainly not going to be a perfect circle, your examples are probably fairly correct for the area used by a whitetail buck, except in the rut.

I just drew my conclusions from what the "hunter" himself wrote on his website.
If he is telling the truth, this deer was not hunted, but put to sleep. I am not wrong.

Look at the pricing structure on the website in question.
They charge by the inch. Enuff' said.

I am not opposed to this type of shooting, and would indeed like to have such a trophy on my wall. But somehow, the experience would not seem as rewarding as it might have been.

IP
Please explain

What's wrong with hunting with a Rolex? I do.

A new President is now about $21K. I prefer Patek Philippe.

Oh yeah, back on topic that's a real nice deer.

I couldn't give a shit how it was shot and how anyone else hunts. Doesn't most jealousy stem from a small pecker anyway......

quote:

Originally posted by Irish Paul:
I am not opposed to this type of shooting, and would indeed like to have such a trophy on my wall. But somehow, the experience would not seem as rewarding as it might have been.

Why not? I've shot deer over bait and in the wild, hunted Alaska, Colorado, Mexico, New Zealand etc and you know what, the thrill is the same. Whether you shoot a bear over blueberries (isn't that that called Mother Nature's Bear Bait Berries- I bought some myself) a Coues deer over water or a deer over corn, they all die the same don't they?

This is not meant for you specifically:

All this crap about I am more of a man because I.... is just that- crap. But then again I guess we need pople like that around the campfire so that when they leave, those left at the fire can all collectively say "what a fucking asshole!"


P.S. That's my s/s Rolex Daytona, Sonora Mexico 2006

IP
After beating this horse to mush I dont need an explaination. good hunting

Perry

quote:

Crazy
I do not hunt this place but do know the family and that buck was anyone's quary. Marko obviously took the initiatave.
My objection with others posts are the fact that no facts are known and yet criticism is given. In Texas you stand hunt most of the time, this buck was killed from a stand. But to incinuate that this deer is like a pen raised hog is preposterous.

Perry

No arguement from me, but that is the reputation Texas has earned from lots of folks around the world.

Remember the line in the John Cleese movie "Fierce Creatures".

When the bad guys were driving to the zoo to make the announcement that it was closing.

The right hand man of the guy that ran Octopus Enterprises said, "Too Bad This Place Isn't In Texas", the MIC asked why, and the guy said, "They Would Pay Us To Let Them Shoot Them".

We had a guy one time on our javelina hunts from Arkansas, hell of a nice feller. We got to talking one night at camp about game we had killed, and he told about driving from Arkansas to Colorado to shoot a cow buffalo.

Anyhow, the way things worked out, he shot that buffalo while it was still in the trailer, and he was just as proud of that as if he had shot it in the middle of the Henry's mountains in Utah.

This buck or horse as the case may be has been beat to death on at least one other forum besides this one.

Probably time to let it do like any old soldier and just fade away.

Really impressive animal under any circumstance, it is just that some folks can't get past circumstances. JMO.

It just seems to cheapen the deed of getting the big buck when antler size is being augmented by feeding supplements and being breed for antler size.Instead of the wily old buck who has outsmarted everyone for years,its time to take him before he damages his antlers.

No real arguement on that either, but, in Texas, that has become the name of the game so to speak.

Somewhere and at sometime that I can't exactly put my finger on, someone decided that killing deer had become a competitive sport and he who killed the biggest buck was the winner.

When other folks found out that like any livestock, deer antler size could be manipulated in a captive situation, and folks would pay unheard of prices to shoot such animals, it became an industry.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or agree to it, White Tail deer hunting as it has evolved to this point in time, is adding its own set of nails to huntings coffin. JMO.

Jb
Whats cheap about letting an animal reach its full potential?
Supplement feeding is done at free choice feed stations out in the pasture, no more contolled than a corn field.
Breeding for horn size is sound management that has absolutly nothing to do with a deer being wiley or not.
All of this maximizes the resource, thats it.
These deer are still just that...deer.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
P.S. That's my s/s Rolex Daytona, Sonora Mexico 2006

nice rifle rest you've got there.

your a a prime example of what i was talking about.

i have no desire to be associated with a pay by the inch hunter like you.

and fear not. you are definatly "more" of a man than I.

this is a buck i shot last year. is he a monster. No. but he was aged at 6 and a half years old and around these parts that may as well be 100.
killed over bait? you bet, he was pushing a fawn off a doe he wanted.
the ranch?
ElJasons backyardo'. an 88 acre peice of private land a budy lets me hunt that backs up to a 300 acre timber company spread.
and yes thats a leupold rifleman scope $179 on sale.
and yes thats a walmart shirt and carhart pants.
and no, thats not my truck (I wish) mine is a 92 F150.

a trophy none the less, all for the price of a single 30-06 180 gr hornady SP.

but does he compare?
does he compete against all those monster bucks?
does he score book?
does he rate?
i dont know.
because ive "long since passed the day when the quality of the hunt was determined by the weight of the game bag".
the hunters im talking about pay to kill.
they dont pay for the opportunity to hunt in beautiful country.
oe two have an experience.
they apy for only one thing.
they pay for a 160 or 170 or 200" whatever buck.
thats not hunting.
no how, no way, no were.
and sorry if it seems like im stubborn but i really dont give a shit what you "do".
i care that somewere out there someone is going to associate your sorry ass with me.

Your wrong in your assumptions and ascertations of why some people pay hunt. Nice deer though, your blessed to have a place to go.

Perry