quote:

High fences have been around in Texas since the 1920's and a couple actually before then. Those properties seem to be doing fine still. Here's a 50 year projection for you: 50 years from now, Texas will still have a bunch of high fenced and low fenced ranches that practice intensive game management. Our deer will be bigger and healthier than ever before. We will still have the best Whitetail hunting in the country. And narrow-minded pricks will still be bitching at us because we do things differently. How's that for a projection?

i agree 100% that narrow- and small-minded would be good descriptions here.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:


DSR PRICING


Does $750.00
Bucks 120 - 129 Gross B&C $2,000.00
Bucks 130 - 139 Gross B&C $2,500.00
Bucks 140 - 144 Gross B&C $3,500.00
Bucks 145 - 149 Gross B&C $4,000.00
Bucks 150 - 154 Gross B&C $4,500.00
Bucks 155 - 159 Gross B&C $5,000.00
Bucks 160 - 169 Gross B&C $7,500.00
Bucks 170 - 179 Gross B&C $10,000.00
Bucks 180 - 189 Gross B&C $12,500.00
Bucks 190 - 199 Gross B&C $15,000.00
Bucks 200+ Gross B&C Ind. Priced

I will agree with KSTEPHENS that the Diamond S Ranch's pricing structure is a little bit drastic, but if they can get those prices, more power to them.

Hopefully within the next year, my family will be purchasing a 300-500 acre ranch. We plan to high fence the property as a whole with no interior fences. Once we have an established deer herd, we will more than likely sell a few surplus deer hunts to help cover costs. I'm thinking that our pricing structure will probably look something like this:

Any buck up to 150" - $3,500
Any buck between 150"-170" - $5,000
Any buck between 170"-200" - $9,000

Any bucks that we may have that score over 200" will be for us, as a family, to hunt ourselves. They will not be for sale.

quote:

Hopefully within the next year, my family will be purchasing a 300-500 acre ranch. We plan to high fence the property as a whole with no interior fences. Once we have an established deer herd, we will more than likely sell a few surplus deer hunts to help cover costs.

who will own those deer, ES?

TS Where's your sense of humor?

P.S. I've forwarded those pics to Michael Jackson....

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
Thank christ most of the assholes live in minnesota, montana, south carolina and NOT Texas.

Amen!!

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Hopefully within the next year, my family will be purchasing a 300-500 acre ranch. We plan to high fence the property as a whole with no interior fences. Once we have an established deer herd, we will more than likely sell a few surplus deer hunts to help cover costs.

who will own those deer, ES?

God.

quote:

Our deer will be bigger and healthier than ever before.

hows that?
by killing dominant bucks because they dont score as high as less aggressive dumber animals?

just because a deer has big antlers doesnt mean he's smart enough to leave rubs and scrapes in the right place.
it doesnt mean he knows how to fight.
it doesnt mean he has the stamina to survive a rough season weather wise.
it doesnt mean he's smart enough to stay away from hunters.
you expect me to belive that by feeding a deer supplementaly allowing him to feel secure walking around in the middle of the day increasing his contact with humans and cock-blocking for him by killing off any rivals that you are going to produce a quality animal?

only if by quality you mean a big dumb monster racked cow.


nature knows best.

i fully acknowledge the right of any landowner to do what he wants with ACCESS to his property (whether i agree with it or not personally); however, the wildlife on that property, regardless of how high the fence is, belongs to the people. even God says so.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
TS Where's your sense of humor?

it's alive and well, thank you. where's yours sense of manners?

quote:

P.S. I've forwarded those pics to Michael Jackson....

this says quite a bit about you, and it's not funny, unless you and MJ have a few interests in common; then it's just sad (not to mention illegal).

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
i fully acknowledge the right of any landowner to do what he wants with ACCESS to his property (whether i agree with it or not personally); however, the wildlife on that property, regardless of how high the fence is, belongs to the people. even God says so.

Well.......without getting technical, as far as I'm concerned, whoever takes care of the deer owns them. And just for the record, the vast majority of landowners in Texas follow this belief system, so it all works out fine. We generally don't have jealous assholes like you and KSTEPHENS to deal with.

just got off the phone with an AR buddy reading this.
funny perspective.
he says selective breeding guys sound like your attempting to create a master race of deer but are choosing only one single attribute as the focus.
it would be like breeding a race of people bases only on thier ability to grow thick toenails and expecting that to somehow make them superior.
selective breeding brought us to this...

from this...


and now you want to turn this...


into this?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Our deer will be bigger and healthier than ever before.

hows that?
by killing dominant bucks because they dont score as high as less aggressive dumber animals?

just because a deer has big antlers doesnt mean he's smart enough to leave rubs and scrapes in the right place.
it doesnt mean he knows how to fight.
it doesnt mean he has the stamina to survive a rough season weather wise.
it doesnt mean he's smart enough to stay away from hunters.
you expect me to belive that by feeding a deer supplementaly allowing him to feel secure walking around in the middle of the day increasing his contact with humans and cock-blocking for him by killing off any rivals that you are going to produce a quality animal?

only if by quality you mean a big dumb monster racked cow.


nature knows best.

You make it sounds as if dominant bucks are the only deer who deserve to be called "deer" and all the other deer are mentally retarded or something. What planet did you grow up on? Here on Earth, in my experience, ANY mature buck can and will outwit you. In fact, the mature non-dominant bucks are usually harder to kill due to the fact that they aren't active breeders and therefore, don't show themselves as often as a horny dominant buck during the rut would.

Also.......I'm getting tired of reading the words "cock-blocking". What are you.......a high school student? Grow up.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
i fully acknowledge the right of any landowner to do what he wants with ACCESS to his property (whether i agree with it or not personally); however, the wildlife on that property, regardless of how high the fence is, belongs to the people. even God says so.

Well.......without getting technical,

well, let's get technical, unless you believe that laws are simply chaff that should blow away in the big wind that you are producing.

quote:

as far as I'm concerned,

who the hell are you?

quote:

whoever takes care of the deer owns them.

sorry to get technical, but the state owns them in the name of the people.

quote:

And just for the record, the vast majority of landowners in Texas follow this belief system,

does that make it right?

quote:

so it all works out fine.

mismanaged and unethical usurping of our natural resources is fine?

quote:

We generally don't have jealous assholes like you and KSTEPHENS to deal with.

so anyone who disagrees with you and puts up reasonable arguments against your unethical bullshit world is an asshole? believe me, i am nowhere near jealous. it's rather more like looking at a pasture full of steers telling themselves how great it is to be a steer. having no balls and getting slaughtered and eaten is just the way it is, so you might as well tell each other how wonderful it is, right, steers?

quote:

What are you.......a high school student? Grow up.

quote:

We generally don't have jealous assholes like you and KSTEPHENS

hello, kettle? this is pot. you're black. just thought you would like to know that.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
who will own those deer, ES?

High fenced deer can be caught with net and put in breeder pens. However, the pens must be opened after the breeding season. Any offspring are still considered state property.

Any deer purchased from a registered breeder is considered yours, and any offspring are considered yours. These can be kept in breeding pens indefinitely. The transport of wilddeer from one ranch to another is considered illegal.

The paperwork is a major major hassle though. There are dvarying levels of management & breeding permits etc.



FYI, my friend who manages a South Texas ranch was in contact with a similar outfit, in the midwest (I don't remember where Illinois?, Minnesota?)and asked them of their set up. It was 5,000 acres set up in concentric high fenced pens, each with different aged/sized deer and with the killing zone (under 40 acres) in the middle. The killing oat patch/field had a central big tower. The prospective deer would be let loose in the killing field and the hunters would be put in it and the guide would say: :"You're shooting a 150in- that one" "you- that one's 170" "you're a 140- over there....." etc

At least in Texas all we do is fence the perimeter, you guys in the midwest sure wrote the book on being unethical............

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Our deer will be bigger and healthier than ever before.

hows that?
by killing dominant bucks because they dont score as high as less aggressive dumber animals?

just because a deer has big antlers doesnt mean he's smart enough to leave rubs and scrapes in the right place.
it doesnt mean he knows how to fight.
it doesnt mean he has the stamina to survive a rough season weather wise.
it doesnt mean he's smart enough to stay away from hunters.
you expect me to belive that by feeding a deer supplementaly allowing him to feel secure walking around in the middle of the day increasing his contact with humans and cock-blocking for him by killing off any rivals that you are going to produce a quality animal?

only if by quality you mean a big dumb monster racked cow.


nature knows best.

You make it sounds as if dominant bucks are the only deer who deserve to be called "deer" and all the other deer are mentally retarded or something. What planet did you grow up on? Here on Earth, in my experience, ANY mature buck can and will outwit you. In fact, the mature non-dominant bucks are usually harder to kill due to the fact that they aren't active breeders and therefore, don't show themselves as often as a horny dominant buck during the rut would.

Also.......I'm getting tired of reading the words "cock-blocking". What are you.......a high school student? Grow up.

what do you think makes a deer smart?

you think letting him walk around under a feeder with the scent of humans in the air year after year does it?
you think shooting off any rival buck so he can breed makes him smart?
hes gonna get wise how?
your not shooting him because you want to let him breed. your not making him smart in fact you would rather he be dumb as shit do when johnny big wallet shows up w/ a blank check you can escort him directly to the stand that the bruiser coming out on.
get a grip.

quote:

you guys in the midwest sure wrote the book on being unethical........

luckily i am not in the midwest, or i'd probably be offended by that.

As I stated before, I don't have a dog in this fight. I actually don't have a problem with this type of hunting. It's not quite my thing but if it's yours that's great. My problem is the people like Marko Barret who make it sound like shooting this buck was a huge challenge that required a long stalk and lots of luck. Let's face it, he picked the time and place to dispatch this deer based on not wanting it to possibly damage it's rack. Those are his words, by the way, not mine.

FMC,
Your posts are definitely not helping your side gain any converts.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

What are you.......a high school student? Grow up.

quote:

We generally don't have jealous assholes like you and KSTEPHENS

hello, kettle? this is pot. you're black. just thought you would like to know that.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. The reason I said "What are you......a high school student? Grow up" is because he was using the term "cock-block". That is a phrase that is usually used by immature high schoolers or even some of my "intelectually challenged" college buddies. FYI, I'm a 19 year old sophomore in college. I would be willing to bet that most people, if they read my posts and KSTEPHENS posts, without knowing my age, would probably think I was older. Age isn't the main factor in maturity.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

just because a deer has big antlers doesnt mean he's smart enough to leave rubs and scrapes in the right place.
it doesnt mean he knows how to fight.
it doesnt mean he has the stamina to survive a rough season weather wise.
it doesnt mean he's smart enough to stay away from hunters.
you expect me to belive that by feeding a deer supplementaly allowing him to feel secure walking around in the middle of the day increasing his contact with humans and cock-blocking for him by killing off any rivals that you are going to produce a quality animal?

only if by quality you mean a big dumb monster racked cow.


nature knows best.

You are dead wrong. Obviously you know shit about hunting. Most big deer get big for a reason. They are smarter, they are bigger, they do avoid humans etc etc etc. Oh and yes some of the bigger deer actually walk in the middle of the day (when most hunters are eating/napping at camp) rather than in the mornings/evenings. But.......all it takes is just one slip up and boom and usually this involves pussy- makes all male animals stupid.

Slug. Just having fun.

what i was trying to say is that you call him immature while you are engaging in the same behavior.

college sophomore....o, to be a kid again.....we all knew everything there was to know at that age. enjoy your youth, skippy, but don't forget to pick up some wisdom and maturity along the way; you'll need it sooner than you think.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
Slug. Just having fun.

Fair enough. That's a really nice elk, by the way.

quote:

pussy- makes all male animals stupid.

you finally say something intelligent...about time....

penned deer strike back..................



-------------------

Georgia Man Gored to Death by Deer

Monday , October 08, 2007



BALL GROUND, Ga. —
A man has been found dead at his home in Ball Ground after apparently being attacked by a deer.

The body of 66-year-old John Henry Frix was found around 8 p.m. yesterday inside the deer's pen on his property. Cherokee County Sheriff's Sergeant Jay Baker says he had been gored several times in the upper body by a deer's antlers.

The deer was one of several Frix kept on his property. His relatives told sheriff's deputies the deer had recently been acting very aggressive, probably due to rut -- the period when deer mate.


Authorities say it appears Frix tried to fend off the deer, which was the size of a small elk.

A family member later shot and killed the deer.

No charges have been filed and the incident has been turned over to the Department of Natural Resources for further investigation.

Deer kill about 150 people a year in the Unites States. But most of those deaths happen when deer are involved in collisions with automobiles.

quote:

if a montanan, a south calinky man, a minnesotan and several others from across the country can agree long enough to say that what's going on in texas borders on unethical, then perhaps you should at least pause long enough to consider it.

it may not be going on everywhere in texas, nor is it being done by everyone in texas, but it is ruining the sport; all i am asking of you is that you project some of these practices 50 years into the future and think about it.

I have been following this thread through all 5 pages, like most of the posters, I feel passionatly about this subject also. I think where most people get lost and fly off the handle is when it gets to TEXAS this TEXAS that. Guys this ain't only a TEXAS thing! It is happenig all over the U.S.. I agree based upon my limited experience, that it "may" be happening more in some places than others. I have not hunted in but 6 states out of our 50. From watching TV hunting shows and reading hunting magazines I do know that this "high fencing" happens in other states as well as Texas. Some on these two posts have seemed to construe that this only happens in TEXAS, that's wrong. I think that restricting the movement of "Native" game animals is wrong no matter what state you are in. I believe that when you fence them in you are, in fact, taking these animals into possession. How could you argue otherwise? They are no longer free to leave your property.
If you care about this issue you need to convince others by intelligent dialogue not name calling. When you say Texas has to do this Texas has to do that, it is name calling, flat and simple. We who care about wildlife, hunting and our rights have to be above this, especially if we want anything done about it.
Now as to the long term affect of this I have no concrete evidence. But one young Laddie here states that his family is going to buy a 300-500 acre ranch and high fence it. They are going to sell off the excess bucks under 200" ( yes he said 200" )he even has a price structure set, up to 150" so much, then 150" to 170" so much more, even 170" to 190" a lot more, sounds kind of retail to me. He states that they are going to do this to offset the costs of this fence they are going to have built. This is ludicrous, fence in our deer and sell them to pay for his families fence? Can I sell some deer to pay for my roof? Now on three hundred acres how many deer do you think the natural habitat can support? At one deer per 26 ( which is one formala I have seen used for a specific region in the state ) acres you could support 19.23 off of 500 acres. How many deer do you think you will have in your herd to produce these monsters? How many will you have to sell to pay for your fence. Wait that's not the meat of the question. I am sure you would plan on having more deer than that and that means a deer population larger than the land can naturally sustain. That's fine while your Dad has enough money to pay for supplemental feeding. But what happens if God forbid your Dad has a bad year, and feed prices are too high or the well goes dry. These deer are contained behind a high fence? They can't leave. They are not cattle you can sell off.
What you gonna do are you gonna tear down the fence? Are you gonna release your cash crop of 200" deer so they don't starve or die of thirst?
In my book independant thought and the ability to use reason and logic is the most important sign of maturity.

quote:

I'm a 19 year old sophomore in college.

well, i want you to think about something since your so worldly and smart about hunting.
when you were born i was your age.
exactly were did you glean all this knowledge of hunting whitetails from in this, what 8 years of hunting, maybe?
i have only been hunting whitetail for 25 years.
your just like one of those big racked dolts cruising around the pen right now. just remember that the rack dont make the man. as i said in an earlier post, the dominant buck isnt always the one w/ the biggest rack.
FMC,
you may be right i might not know shit about deer hunting. but i have alot less to learn now than i did 25 years ago because i hunt real deer. wild deer. not hand fed, pen raised gentetic mutations with ear tags and radio collars and AKC pedigree's.
and next year i know a little more.
what exactly does that $15000 check buy a man other than a mount?
what does he learn about deer sitting up 25' in that blind overlooking a feered bullshitting with a paid guide and looking over trailcam pics of potential victims?

First off let me say nice rack! And that drop tine, my gawd, looks like a gord full of Marrion Jones juice.

Tell me why, if these are wild animals and not livestock why Boone and Crockett says "big game harvested confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fencing are ineligible"?

Why does Pope and young say that the term "Fair Chase" shall not include the taking of animals while inside escape-proof fenced enclosures


i mean do these organizations set the standards or does the TX Deer Breeders Association?

Here these deer ranches are using pope and young or boone and crockett standards to evaluate how big the bank draft is gonna be and the animal isnt even eligible...

Why isnt it?

KS asks a good question, guys....

quote:

Guys this ain't only a TEXAS thing! It is happenig all over the U.S.. I agree based upon my limited experience, that it "may" be happening more in some places than others. I have not hunted in but 6 states out of our 50. From watching TV hunting shows and reading hunting magazines I do know that this "high fencing" happens in other states as well as Texas. Some on these two posts have seemed to construe that this only happens in TEXAS, that's wrong.

point taken, jtex. for myself, i'll endeavor to keep the discussion state-blind, and would ask fellow board members to do the same.

in all fairness, however, i will point out that it was a texan (muygrande) who first brought up the subject of the way deer are managed in texas, thereby leaving the great state open to rebutting arguments involving the quality and wisdom of said management....

quote:

I think that restricting the movement of "Native" game animals is wrong no matter what state you are in. I believe that when you fence them in you are, in fact, taking these animals into possession. How could you argue otherwise? They are no longer free to leave your property.....We who care about wildlife, hunting and our rights have to be above this, especially if we want anything done about it.
Now as to the long term affect of this I have no concrete evidence. But one young Laddie here states that his family is going to buy a 300-500 acre ranch and high fence it. They are going to sell off the excess bucks under 200" ( yes he said 200" )he even has a price structure set, up to 150" so much, then 150" to 170" so much more, even 170" to 190" a lot more, sounds kind of retail to me. He states that they are going to do this to offset the costs of this fence they are going to have built. This is ludicrous, fence in our deer and sell them to pay for his families fence? Can I sell some deer to pay for my roof? Now on three hundred acres how many deer do you think the natural habitat can support? At one deer per 26 ( which is one formala I have seen used for a specific region in the state ) acres you could support 19.23 off of 500 acres. How many deer do you think you will have in your herd to produce these monsters? How many will you have to sell to pay for your fence. Wait that's not the meat of the question. I am sure you would plan on having more deer than that and that means a deer population larger than the land can naturally sustain. That's fine while your Dad has enough money to pay for supplemental feeding. But what happens if God forbid your Dad has a bad year, and feed prices are too high or the well goes dry. These deer are contained behind a high fence? They can't leave. They are not cattle you can sell off.
What you gonna do are you gonna tear down the fence? Are you gonna release your cash crop of 200" deer so they don't starve or die of thirst?
In my book independant thought and the ability to use reason and logic is the most important sign of maturity.

very good points. also, i notice that no one whas brought up the subject of CWD, but the risks for it have been proven to be greater under penned-up and artificially-fed situations.

If you guys really belive that these are wild deer then tell me why everyone removes the ear tag after the kill but before the photo.
the ranches show all these monsters running around w/ ear tags on and i cant find on picture gallery photo that shows johnny big bucks deer with an ear tag still on.
ashamed?

try it.
go to a high fenced operations web site and look at all the pics of live deer at feeders or from trail cams and see they have ear tags.
then look at the happy "hunters" pic. no tags.
why?
i mean whats to be ashamed of?
fair chase right?
wild deer right?

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
KS asks a good question, guys....

Not really

quote:

Originally posted by rbrowntx:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
KS asks a good question, guys....

Not really

not really? only when you are too chickenshit to consider that your position might be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Originally posted by rbrowntx:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
KS asks a good question, guys....

Not really

not really? only when you are too chickenshit to consider that your position might be wrong.

dont get wrapped. he's not real. 61 post in 3 years. hes an alter ego for another member whos got his mouth full of foot right not.
bet on it.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Originally posted by rbrowntx:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
KS asks a good question, guys....

Not really

not really? only when you are too chickenshit to consider that your position might be wrong.

I just thought it was funny how KS asks a question, then TS is there to pat him on the back "good question buddy". Hell I dont know why they use the B&C Scale. Maybe just cause most are familiar with it.

well, at least now you are actually contributing to the conversation, rbrowntx.

your hypothesis doesn't hold water, but the effort was there, and that is much appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by rbrowntx:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Originally posted by rbrowntx:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
KS asks a good question, guys....

Not really

not really? only when you are too chickenshit to consider that your position might be wrong.

I just thought it was funny how KS asks a question, then TS is there to pat him on the back "good question buddy". Hell I dont know why they use the B&C Scale. Maybe just cause most are familiar with it.

why doesnt B&C or P&Y accept fenced deer?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

Originally posted by rbrowntx:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
KS asks a good question, guys....

Not really

not really? only when you are too chickenshit to consider that your position might be wrong.

dont get wrapped. he's not real. 61 post in 3 years. hes an alter ego for another member whos got his mouth full of foot right not.
bet on it.

Sorry I read more than I post.