quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I wonder,did everybody get taken,or just those who could afford it?

Who can afford to throw 70,000 away a get nothing in return?

Is anyone foolish to believe that one can throw away $50,000 -$70,000 and not feel the loss. I took out a 2nd mortgage and feel the pain every month when I make a payment to repay the loan. I would be very happy to have anyone give me $55,000 that they have lying around and don't care about. That would help me out.

perhaps I should have stated," I wonder if all of their clients got taken?"

TTT to keep it in the forefront of everyone's minds...

Sad to see that SCI does NOTHING, yet I'm sure we will See BWWH at their next Convention.

Hunting has turned into such a big money sport that cons and abuses are all over the place. Greed always raises it's ugly head when theres that much money to be had.

FN in MT

Before SCI would get involved they would have to receive a complaint by a "member" about a wrongdoing that involved them. They simply will/would not get involved with complaints posted on a web fourm by non injured parties. That's just the way it is.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by FN in Montana:
Sad to see that SCI does NOTHING, yet I'm sure we will See BWWH at their next Convention.

Hunting has turned into such a big money sport that cons and abuses are all over the place. Greed always raises it's ugly head when theres that much money to be had.

FN in MT

Larry,

What is the process to file a complaint and are there costs involved?

Bill Q would be the best one to answer that question. I know there is a fee but other than that don't know the proceedure. If $75,000.00 had been lost, any reasonable fee would seem to be in order.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Larry,

What is the process to file a complaint and are there costs involved?

Do ya'll really think BWW would have the balls to show themselves at an SCI convention given all of this?
I could only see confrontation after confrontation happening.
I'd sure want to amble by just to see them and maybe and fireworks that might come up.

Thus far , His commentary here has shown just that--

more balls than brains--

don't bet he won't setup as usual

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Bill Q would be the best one to answer that question. I know there is a fee but other than that don't know the proceedure. If $75,000.00 had been lost, any reasonable fee would seem to be in order.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Larry,

What is the process to file a complaint and are there costs involved?

Larry. I've been retired for 12 years, and don't know what the procedures or costs are now.

Bill Quimby

I somehow doubt the fee is teh problem.

It is how hard SCI drag their feet to do anything positive in cases like these.

In fact, it would be interesting if one can get access to all the complaints made to "the ethics" committee, and see the results.

Now they have elected a tainted lawyer to their top postion, I fear this sort of thing is going to get worse.

Hi Bill; Sorry for the assumption, I seem to forget it's been that long since you were a regular at SCI. Take care.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Bill Q would be the best one to answer that question. I know there is a fee but other than that don't know the proceedure. If $75,000.00 had been lost, any reasonable fee would seem to be in order.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:
Larry,

What is the process to file a complaint and are there costs involved?

Larry. I've been retired for 12 years, and don't know what the procedures or costs are now.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I somehow doubt the fee is teh problem.

It is how hard SCI drag their feet to do anything positive in cases like these.

In fact, it would be interesting if one can get access to all the complaints made to "the ethics" committee, and see the results.

Now they have elected a tainted lawyer to their top postion, I fear this sort of thing is going to get worse.

Yes. That organization's apparent silence and indifference is very suspicious. It could make a person reluctant to sign up.

quote:

It could make a person reluctant to sign up

Amen to that. Sounds like if no fee is paid or the outfitter screws non-members there is no ethics questions.

Has or has not anyone talked to the FBI about this yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
Has or has not anyone talked to the FBI about this yet?

TTT

I read the BWW post and I would say that ethically they were/are obligated to help. And they should have returned their commission (it's been weeks since I read most of the thread so don't remember if they did do that).

What I'm wondering is, if the booking agent only books the hunt for you and forwards your money, what the fuck are you paying them for? that's the most idiotic thing I've heard of. Hell, you know the name of the guide, book directly and save the money. I would think the whole point of using that in between party is for assurance of some sort. Maybe they hold the money until the hunt is completed, on a hunt like this especially where the cost is providing mostly profit to the guide/outfitter, and his actual cost is minimal. Pay up front the part that is necessary to get it done, and the balance on completion. In effect the booking agent is acting as an escrow account, ensuring both parties are doing their parts and the contract is met.

Am I off base on how this works? As somebody that hopefully will get to go on some paid hunts in the future I'd like to understand all this better.

Red

I don't think this question has been raised yet.

Dago's post got me thinking. Actually the booking agent provides more of a service to the outfitter then the hunter.

If I was a guide/outfitter I would want to create relationships with Booking Agents (Marketers) as I would be busy running my business and let them handle the marketing and sales for me. Kind of like enlisting the aid of a Realtor to sell my home.

So the question is. Legally who do the Booking Agents work for/represent? Does it vary?

Example with Realtors again. In the state of WA the listing agent legally represents the seller and the purchasers agent legally represents the buyer. An agent can represent both parties but it must be disclosed.

So who does BWW LEGALLY represent in this transaction?

That's a good question Howard, good comparison I think. scary but it seems you almost need your own agent that cares more about you than the outfitter and the fat commission they're going to get.

Red

Very good arguements for booking yourself and doing the legwork to be positive you are dealing with an honest outfitter.
It seems you can not take this booking agents word for anything.

That might be true of this agent. Fortunately, they are not all like BWW.

I use Adventure Unlimited. John has helped me out many times when something went wrong. For example, when a government canceled my hunt after the first day.

Anyone go to the NRA show this past weekend? Did Blair exhibit? He has in the past.

Some of the issues raised by the last few posts are some of the main reasons why, for my last five guided hunts (Alaska, Canada & Africa), I have not used booking agents.

I gather names; talk to outfitters directly at shows, by phone, by Email and then communicate with references and do the research. Then, I make all of my own arrangements. I simply do not trust most booking agents after a couple of dissapointments a few years back.

There are a very few that I would have some confidence in using, a couple of whom post on AR. There are some whom post here that I am not familiar with &, so, have no opinion of them. From what I have seen here about BWW; I would avoid them like the plague.

The question about who the booking agent represents is very apt. That relationship has never been raised by agents when I have consulted them. Only after becoming educated over a period of time did I become aware of the subject. Don't forget that the agent makes his money by selling hunts; his commission is PAID BY THE OUTFITTER HE REPRESENTS.

Are all booking agents crooked? Not at all. Are some ethically challenged? I leave that answer to you all. Just use caution. Trust but verify; its your money.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Anyone go to the NRA show this past weekend? Did Blair exhibit? He has in the past.

Doesn't look like it...

http://www.nraam.org/exhibitor...ibitors_listing.html

Still amazed that this douche bag wouldn't pay back his commission and be clear of all this scrutiny. What an idiot!

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Anyone go to the NRA show this past weekend? Did Blair exhibit? He has in the past.

Doesn't look like it...

http://www.nraam.org/exhibitor...ibitors_listing.html

Still amazed that this douche bag wouldn't pay back his commission and be clear of all this scrutiny. What an idiot!

Probably beause he has been right at the ragged edge of righ/wrong for many years without getting caught or called on it. People get arrogant when they don't get caught.

FN in MT

TTT

Is it just me or does Blair have a really poorly organized and designed web site?

i have read 4 pages of this, and i don't know this fact..
did jeff blair ever pay larry, and if so, how much?

dec 08-35k to blair
dec 09 - 35k to blair
010- hunt canceled, no money back (that is rubbish, of course.. hunt canceled by "company", all money should be returned)

when and how much was larry paid -- and has someone called the IRS as yet?

let's assume that larry was paid less than the 70K..

I did a break down of costs in an earlier post but I just can't see how this hunt came to $70k. My guess is that Blair kept some money before he sent any cash to Larry.

Blair and Heathington are both scumbags, liars and thieves as far as I'm concerned

Jeffeosso...in reading the post Heathington put on here he admits he recieved the money and according to him it was paid to the Mexican outfitters...... as for cost breakdowns..I have no idea what it costs to hunt Mexico for a world class desert sheep. I assume its like anything, you can charge whatever you like, if someone is willing to pay the price then you make alot of money. One car dealer charges 10,000 another 15000 for the same car...what justifies the dfference?

This whole thread has been a learning experience for a newbie like me.

Throughout my (short) hunting experience, i have seen deals finalised on a handshake. I have met some real gentlemen. I was taught by many elders to believe that the love for the outdoors, the want of being one with nature and the lust for money are polar opposites and thus cant exist in the same person.

Thus one may trust a hunter. One wouldnt be a hunter if one was hungry for money.
I have always met gentleman hunters. This baffles me. If one has such a big company, why scam someone for such a 'small' amount? Judging by the number of hunts booked, BWW seems like a million dollar company.

I am a newbie and I can understand that though one may be well versed with the internet, one might not check for the guides reputation or his references. Isay that because i didnt do it my first time (not that its smart).

My best wishes for the family and please know that I and many of my hunting buddies support you.

IT was a dream for me to hunt a giant sheep and have always hoped that one day when i have saved enough... but one thing is for sure, i wont be going for BWW.

I have never lost money in a hunt but have been ripped off and it hurts more to see the culprit get away with it due to 'legal contracts' etc etc.
Legal aint always right and we all know it.

quote:

Originally posted by Morning Mist:
...as for cost breakdowns..I have no idea what it costs to hunt Mexico for a world class desert sheep. I assume its like anything, you can charge whatever you like, if someone is willing to pay the price then you make alot of money.

Well, Heathington charged one guy $48K, one guy $49K and another $55K. Blair came up with a fee of $70K for no other reason than he saw an opportunity. IMO he tacked on at LEAST $10K to the Henriksons hunt for himself.

Jeff Blair is a vulture and he doesnt care about anybody but himself. He screwed a long time clients kids and has the audacity to try to defend his actions. Jeff Blair is a piece of garbage

If you look at my prior posts, I have the amounts straight from the court documents. Sorry, I have my I phone and I do not know how to post a link.

I just did not want to see this fall of the first page.

Anything happening?

quote:

Originally posted by chuckmaxman:
Anything happening?

Well, I haven't booked a hunt with
Blair world wide hunting and I hope no one else does either.

Check the African Hunting section. Blair cold called a member about booking a hunt and the member referenced the AR posts.

I will let the aggrieved parties answer. However, there is one thing that if anything further proves that I want nothing to do with BWW. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

Interestingly, since all of this started, I have not gotten any solicitations by e mail or phone from BWW. I used to get them all the time.

Larry, funny you should mention not receiving any solicitations. I have never requested info from a consultant or booking agent, but low and behold I receive a post card from BWW just last week.

I've been pondering how I will reply to his quote, "EVERY BUDGET AND EVERY DREAM CAN BE FULFILLED AT BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING."

I also wonder how he got my address, but I supose it is from one of the outdoor peridicals I subscribe to, or that I am a life member of the NRA and other conservation groups.

Until I get too old to do "DIY" hunts, which I'm probably not that far away from, I have no need for a booking agent, guide, or outfitter, but if I do get to that point, it deffinently won't be through BWW.

Knute