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Bill Quimby: Straight up questions: 1. Do you personally know Jeff Blair? 2. Have you ever gone on a hunt booked with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted? 3. Do you know Larry Heathington? 4. Have you ever gone on a hunt with him? Free, paid in full, or discounted? Not trying to be a jerk, simply looking for full disclosure. And for the life of me, I can't find a single web site dealing with legal definitions and terms that include "malice" as an element of defamation of character, libel, or slander. | |||
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Disclaimer: Have never hunted with Blair, have met him at shows-- & I do not support his position in this matter. However, as to Malice in Libel suits Actually, it is and has been a central issue in many cases. Some won, some lost , some settled even though"truthful" statements were made. One of the most famous was the Gen.Westmoreland case: Any public figure seeking damages for libel must follow the stringent standards set in the precedent of New York Times Co. v. Sullivan. A public figure must prove actual malice in a libel suit, even in the face of strong evidence of media misconduct.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westmoreland_v._CBS DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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People can be sued for anything . It doesn't mean they will win. I am not going to opine if BQ is right or wrong . However, there have been some comments posted herein that perhaps should have been thought out a little more carefully. The word is spreading on this matter rapidly. BWW has got the message I am confident. The problem as I see it is many people may lose should BWW go bankrupt. | |||
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Larry, You bring up a good point about the folks who have money on the line now. However, they should know who they are booked with and according to BWW, precedent has been set that they forward the monies once they receive it from the customer straight to the outfitter. What will be interesting is if this policy precedent changes with all of these new allegations being presented... | |||
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I have a different opinion on spreading the word about Lonnie's non -hunt. Truly sorry that more people may get hurt, but the precedent is set. People need to be informed the facts and risks. Otherwise, it's kinda like Chamberlain standing by while Hitler invades Czechoslovakia "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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I emailed people a link to the website as well as the statements made from Blair and Heathington and allow them to make their own decisions. The statements alone pretty much let people know what needs to be known. | |||
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Well, let me go on record as saying that I hope both of the lying SOBs go out of business (of course, it appears that LH is already out of business) or to jail or both. One for being a flat out thief (Heathington) and the other for being an unethical operator at a minimum. I don't have any malice, I just don't like lying SOBs that keep other people's money when they don't deserve it. Damn, some people are afraid of their shadow. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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1. No. 2. no. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. Heathington guided me to my Arizona desert sheep in 1993. I have not seen or spoken with him in nearly 18 years. Please note that I neither defended nor condemned Heathington or Blair in my posts. I only stated what guided me for more than 40 years as a reporter, editor and publisher. Bill Quimby | |||
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Thanks for answering. Is your reluctance to condemn either based on your fear of retribution or do you think this is no big deal? Reporters have a long history of reporting things that are in the public's interest, even if it means putting their own careers on the line (thinking of Woodward). I would think "getting the word out" is certainly in the public's interest. I commented a few weeks ago about a book I recently read; an old one but a good one. "Barbarians at the Gate" was about KKRs LBO of RJR Nabisco. In that book the author describes how Fortune magazine was going to run a negative story about the CEO of RJR Nabisco, F. Ross Johson. RJR Nabisco at the time was a big advertiser in Fortune, and it was Fortune's policy at the time to notify advertisers that they were going to run a negative piece to allow them to pull their advertising if they wanted. Wow. That is impressive. | |||
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Yes, I think this is a big deal and, yes, reporters have a long history of reporting things that are in the public's interest. But behind every reporter of a major story is at least one editor (usually several) asking questions and demanding facts, as well as a libel attorney who will read that story, before it goes to print. So far, no reporter has tackled this story. I simply do not have enough facts to take a stand. For example, did the Mexicans get any money, and how much? Who were they? How much money did Blair and Heathington keep? What did Blair's attorney remove or add to his letter? What didn't Heathington say in his posts? And, yes, at age 75 I have no intention of risking my remaining assets by taking a stand on something I know only by what has been posted here. Bill Quimby | |||
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Bill, Here is a thought - you have the experience to be the investigative reporter. How about digging around for answers to your own questions? When you are satisfied that Heathington never passed any money over to the landowners for tags, can you run with the story? Who will print it? When you are satisfied that Blair knew of Heathington's meltdown in September 2009 and failed to warn his clients, then what? When you can establish that LH used to charge far less than the 70k for a sheep hunt, is that enough to run with? I think you brought up a very good point. And a lot of us did as well, if we have important information that can save others from harm, it is a responsibility to spread that info. Cheers "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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Bill I like your style and common sense, it is interesting since both Blair and Heathington were responding that when asked for the Mexican contacts to verify the supposedly purchased tags there has been no response. Personally I think (my opinion) that an attorney would have advised them not to post at all, but since they did....and no response to the questions that they opened. Seems to me that speaks volumes. As for AZ's questions 1. No 2.No 3.Yes 4.Yes You want details, PM me. | |||
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My questions are still the very simple ones. BWW said they did all the could to assist. If so, why didnt they say they tried to find another outfitter to make the hunt go foreward? LH said money was paid to the landowners, if so all BWW would have to do is find another outfitter for the $5 grand or so he was paid to oversee the hunt. | |||
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Thats the $70,000 question! Offers have been made publicly to guide the hunt for free but Heathington and Blair have not volunteered any pertinent information to make this happen. You would think that Heathington and Blair would turn that information over ASAP if it could clear their name. | |||
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They'd have to remember where the money was spent first. | |||
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Having retired in 2002 with over 30 years as an Investigator with the State of Michigan in what was the MDA Consumer Protection Bureau my feeling is that before Blair and Heathington came on this BB there may have been a lot of speculation that may have been construed as malice. After they both came on and were asked some simple questions and given a fair and simple way to clear their names and didn't immediately do so, there is no malice by anyone who passes this information all over the net to prevent such happenings in the future. These two guys blew it by not immediately responding and clearing their names on this thread by doing what was offered for free IMHO!!! Also, stating you hope they go OB is nothing but stating that people who violate the law should suffer the consequences, if not by jail time, at least by not being able to perpetrate the same thing on other unsuspecting customers. They have not been back on here because they played their best card (very stupid to make any posts anywhere) and were trumped. Their bluff was called by these other agents and guides and they now simply have no way out! | |||
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That is the POS that screwed me, my dad and a couple of hunting buddies over a few years back... hope he gets paired up with the perfect cellmate when he does jail time! Now ask my definition of "perfect"! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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So, are you one of the guys from Texas that filed a complaint? Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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I have been in contact with the people I have worked with for years down in Sonora Mexico. I was able to finally track down a number of leads and look for other pertinent information as it relates to this situation. I have also been in contact with people here in the States that have asked me to share this information with only certain people that are directly involved with the situation and not post it up on a public message board. I completely understand and appreciate the sensivity of this and WILL NOT, under any circumstances, share this information until I am told that its OK to do so. I am confident in saying that this is not over by any stretch of the imagination. I would venture to guess thats its just getting started. Drummond | |||
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I'm reading between the lines after taking a look at the previous post and it sounds good to me and not so good for the accused!!! | |||
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Testing my new and improved signature ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Spoke to one of the Oklahoma investigators from the AG's office... My post on this forum awhile back... http://forums.accuratereloadin...=216103867#216103867 You know him Graybird? On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Nope, I don't know him from Adam! Gotta be a little tickle in your heart knowing his game finally caught up with him! Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Have any of you Arizona boys emailed Tom Horne at the AG's office about this? Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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This sounds like transactions across state lines occured and one international boundary for sure. There ought to be some remedy at the fedral level. Especially if the mail might be involved. Since the sum involved is significant and there might be similar prior or future offenses, it might even get a postal inspector motivated to get involved. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I got the "green bear" solicitation this AM......after my reply, I don't think they'll be checking back with me. They can both rot in hell for all I care. | |||
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Still waiting to find out what a green bear hunt is? Thanks! Brian Clark Blue Skies Hunting Adventures www.blueskieshunting.com Email at: info@blueskieshunting.com African Cape Trophy Safaris www.africancapesafaris.com Email at: brian@africancapesafaris.com 1-402-689-2024 | |||
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Would this issue fall under Lacey at all? ~Ann   | |||
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Only 5 replys but it's been viewed 428 times. http://forums.outdoorsdirector...y-one-thinking-about | |||
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215 views as of now on the NAHC website! | |||
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2Coolfishing - 1108 and counting.  | |||
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No Anne but it would sure qualify under the RICCO statutes. That is even better in my book. Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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A friend of mine just pointed out to me that Blair has about 45 reports on The Hunting Report. 13 of them are negative. 30% negative response is incredibly bad! I guess cold calling works because with those kind of reports repeat customers are most likely few and far between. Sooner or later your gonna get bent over a barrel if you keep booking with an operation that does business this way | |||
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A guy I met on a BC hunt a few years called me to bullshit. He does not frequent AR but he brought this up to me. Apparently he had heard about it. As he said, "In the age of the internet, what did Blair expect to happen?" | |||
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Thank Mike, RICCO was my next question. ~Ann | |||
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Ask and ye shall receive! 
JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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  ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I have been following this as it progressed because I knew the hunter that was taken by BWW and Heathington. Has there been any new developments by Drummond? I don't think any hunting operator or (booking agent) should be allowed to get away with something so blatant. Any updates? | |||
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Just got an email from them adverising some hunts. | |||
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We hope that you're going to decline, boss. _________________________ Glenn | |||
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